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Mike Keers
09-16-2000, 08:15 PM
Hi gang,
I'm new around this place, but spent many hours perusing the archives....lots of information and answers here.

I'm building a 28' diesel cruiser, "Puffin", a ply-on-frame design by Karl Stambaugh.

Are there any sources for "real" pre-fab powerboat rudders? Short of hanging around the wrecking yards?

Or does anyone have any suggestions? The designer "sort of leaves it up to the builder". A lot of other things, too....I've seen more comprehensive plans. But that's another story. Thanx!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-16-2000, 08:15 PM
Hi gang,
I'm new around this place, but spent many hours perusing the archives....lots of information and answers here.

I'm building a 28' diesel cruiser, "Puffin", a ply-on-frame design by Karl Stambaugh.

Are there any sources for "real" pre-fab powerboat rudders? Short of hanging around the wrecking yards?

Or does anyone have any suggestions? The designer "sort of leaves it up to the builder". A lot of other things, too....I've seen more comprehensive plans. But that's another story. Thanx!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-16-2000, 08:15 PM
Hi gang,
I'm new around this place, but spent many hours perusing the archives....lots of information and answers here.

I'm building a 28' diesel cruiser, "Puffin", a ply-on-frame design by Karl Stambaugh.

Are there any sources for "real" pre-fab powerboat rudders? Short of hanging around the wrecking yards?

Or does anyone have any suggestions? The designer "sort of leaves it up to the builder". A lot of other things, too....I've seen more comprehensive plans. But that's another story. Thanx!
Mike

scottek
09-18-2000, 03:58 PM
I can't help you with a new pre-fab rudder, but from my experiences and based on the number of boats crushed/burned every year you should not have too much trouble finding a used one. There are many old production wooden boats (Trojan, Chris Craft, Owens, etc...) in the same length range (26-35') as your boat. Try finding a marina/yard that has recently demolished (or will in the near future) a boat with a rudder and gear in good condition. Worth a try?

-YF Scott

scottek
09-18-2000, 03:58 PM
I can't help you with a new pre-fab rudder, but from my experiences and based on the number of boats crushed/burned every year you should not have too much trouble finding a used one. There are many old production wooden boats (Trojan, Chris Craft, Owens, etc...) in the same length range (26-35') as your boat. Try finding a marina/yard that has recently demolished (or will in the near future) a boat with a rudder and gear in good condition. Worth a try?

-YF Scott

scottek
09-18-2000, 03:58 PM
I can't help you with a new pre-fab rudder, but from my experiences and based on the number of boats crushed/burned every year you should not have too much trouble finding a used one. There are many old production wooden boats (Trojan, Chris Craft, Owens, etc...) in the same length range (26-35') as your boat. Try finding a marina/yard that has recently demolished (or will in the near future) a boat with a rudder and gear in good condition. Worth a try?

-YF Scott

Mike Keers
09-18-2000, 09:56 PM
Scott,
I appreciate your reply. That would be my first inclination, to scrounge a used one, but I'm out here in the middle of the Arizona desert, and the boat dismantling yards are "hard to find" ;).

I had read somewhere that one could buy bronze rudders already attached to shafts, but it's a rumor at this point. I'll probably end up going to the coast on a parts scrounging trip anyway....a lot of other stuff I can use, and I prefer to recycle things when possible.

Thanx again for the reply!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-18-2000, 09:56 PM
Scott,
I appreciate your reply. That would be my first inclination, to scrounge a used one, but I'm out here in the middle of the Arizona desert, and the boat dismantling yards are "hard to find" ;).

I had read somewhere that one could buy bronze rudders already attached to shafts, but it's a rumor at this point. I'll probably end up going to the coast on a parts scrounging trip anyway....a lot of other stuff I can use, and I prefer to recycle things when possible.

Thanx again for the reply!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-18-2000, 09:56 PM
Scott,
I appreciate your reply. That would be my first inclination, to scrounge a used one, but I'm out here in the middle of the Arizona desert, and the boat dismantling yards are "hard to find" ;).

I had read somewhere that one could buy bronze rudders already attached to shafts, but it's a rumor at this point. I'll probably end up going to the coast on a parts scrounging trip anyway....a lot of other stuff I can use, and I prefer to recycle things when possible.

Thanx again for the reply!
Mike

ishmael
09-18-2000, 10:00 PM
I think Chapelle's Boat Building has some suggestions for making powerboat rudders. It's been awhile, but would be worth a look. Seems to me he has some ideas for simple steering rigs too. Best of luck

ishmael
09-18-2000, 10:00 PM
I think Chapelle's Boat Building has some suggestions for making powerboat rudders. It's been awhile, but would be worth a look. Seems to me he has some ideas for simple steering rigs too. Best of luck

ishmael
09-18-2000, 10:00 PM
I think Chapelle's Boat Building has some suggestions for making powerboat rudders. It's been awhile, but would be worth a look. Seems to me he has some ideas for simple steering rigs too. Best of luck

Mike Keers
09-18-2000, 10:14 PM
Ishmael,
Thanx for your reply and suggestions as well. I'd certainly tackle making my own, if I had some direction....I will look into Chappelle. I have Robert Steward's book, and a few others, but nothing too helpful so far.

Built a few sailboats and the rudders to go with 'em, but this is a new animal to me.
Mike

Mike Keers
09-18-2000, 10:14 PM
Ishmael,
Thanx for your reply and suggestions as well. I'd certainly tackle making my own, if I had some direction....I will look into Chappelle. I have Robert Steward's book, and a few others, but nothing too helpful so far.

Built a few sailboats and the rudders to go with 'em, but this is a new animal to me.
Mike

Mike Keers
09-18-2000, 10:14 PM
Ishmael,
Thanx for your reply and suggestions as well. I'd certainly tackle making my own, if I had some direction....I will look into Chappelle. I have Robert Steward's book, and a few others, but nothing too helpful so far.

Built a few sailboats and the rudders to go with 'em, but this is a new animal to me.
Mike

Ken Liden
09-18-2000, 10:35 PM
Before you go buying rudders you should find out what you need. The rudder size and shape is determined by a number of factors including horsepower output, vessel speed, propeller, size of steering gear etc.

Ken Liden
09-18-2000, 10:35 PM
Before you go buying rudders you should find out what you need. The rudder size and shape is determined by a number of factors including horsepower output, vessel speed, propeller, size of steering gear etc.

Ken Liden
09-18-2000, 10:35 PM
Before you go buying rudders you should find out what you need. The rudder size and shape is determined by a number of factors including horsepower output, vessel speed, propeller, size of steering gear etc.

Mike Keers
09-19-2000, 12:39 AM
Ken,
The rudder is shown on the plans, not in any detail, but the rough shape and size of it. I hoped that I could as close as possible to the size and profile, possibly altering the shape of a pre-made unit, or making my own if I can determine where to start.

The engine, propeller, HP, etc. are already determined, and follow the designer's recommendations.

My indpependent calculations for speed, power, prop, etc. using Dave Gerr's "Propeller Book" match the designer's, which is encouraging. I can only assume he has put as much thought into the shape and size....which is all he has provided. It is not a specified item on the plans or bill of materials.
Mike

Mike Keers
09-19-2000, 12:39 AM
Ken,
The rudder is shown on the plans, not in any detail, but the rough shape and size of it. I hoped that I could as close as possible to the size and profile, possibly altering the shape of a pre-made unit, or making my own if I can determine where to start.

The engine, propeller, HP, etc. are already determined, and follow the designer's recommendations.

My indpependent calculations for speed, power, prop, etc. using Dave Gerr's "Propeller Book" match the designer's, which is encouraging. I can only assume he has put as much thought into the shape and size....which is all he has provided. It is not a specified item on the plans or bill of materials.
Mike

Mike Keers
09-19-2000, 12:39 AM
Ken,
The rudder is shown on the plans, not in any detail, but the rough shape and size of it. I hoped that I could as close as possible to the size and profile, possibly altering the shape of a pre-made unit, or making my own if I can determine where to start.

The engine, propeller, HP, etc. are already determined, and follow the designer's recommendations.

My indpependent calculations for speed, power, prop, etc. using Dave Gerr's "Propeller Book" match the designer's, which is encouraging. I can only assume he has put as much thought into the shape and size....which is all he has provided. It is not a specified item on the plans or bill of materials.
Mike

Ken Liden
09-19-2000, 11:50 PM
Mike, I am with you on Dave Gerr's Propeller book. I have used it extensivly and it has helped greatly. He is a great guy to talk to and he always returns my calls even tho we are on opposite coasts and I am not a customer.

Ken Liden
09-19-2000, 11:50 PM
Mike, I am with you on Dave Gerr's Propeller book. I have used it extensivly and it has helped greatly. He is a great guy to talk to and he always returns my calls even tho we are on opposite coasts and I am not a customer.

Ken Liden
09-19-2000, 11:50 PM
Mike, I am with you on Dave Gerr's Propeller book. I have used it extensivly and it has helped greatly. He is a great guy to talk to and he always returns my calls even tho we are on opposite coasts and I am not a customer.

tjs
09-20-2000, 12:24 AM
Hi Mike

I've got a couple of old powerboat rudders from 25 to 32 ft. boats. Two of them from displacement boats and the big one from a Cris Craft. One of them is a cast bronze (Perco?) and one is home made from stainless. I don't remember what the Cris Craft is made of. If you don't find one let me know and we can probably work out some way to send you pictures and get one to you. I live in Eureka and hear about your adventures from Tim Sawyer of Columbia 26 Tionesa.

tjs
09-20-2000, 12:24 AM
Hi Mike

I've got a couple of old powerboat rudders from 25 to 32 ft. boats. Two of them from displacement boats and the big one from a Cris Craft. One of them is a cast bronze (Perco?) and one is home made from stainless. I don't remember what the Cris Craft is made of. If you don't find one let me know and we can probably work out some way to send you pictures and get one to you. I live in Eureka and hear about your adventures from Tim Sawyer of Columbia 26 Tionesa.

tjs
09-20-2000, 12:24 AM
Hi Mike

I've got a couple of old powerboat rudders from 25 to 32 ft. boats. Two of them from displacement boats and the big one from a Cris Craft. One of them is a cast bronze (Perco?) and one is home made from stainless. I don't remember what the Cris Craft is made of. If you don't find one let me know and we can probably work out some way to send you pictures and get one to you. I live in Eureka and hear about your adventures from Tim Sawyer of Columbia 26 Tionesa.

Mike Keers
09-20-2000, 10:38 PM
TJS,
Gee, thanx! I'll certainly keep your offer in mind, I'm much obliged! I finally heard from the designer, and his thoughts are to make my own from 1/4" SS plate welded to a shaft. I could handle that, and you mentioned one of yours is similar. This one is the type with the bearing at the bottom as well, and about 5" of lead (as in "leed") in front of the shaft...counterbalanced?

I had started to think about this like a composite sailboat rudder....foam, FG, etc. Or even laminated ply over the shaft/armature assembly. Lots of ideas flying around. And thanx to all for the input.

And I remembered at least one place I'd seen commercial rudders specified in the plans....some of the Eldridge-McGinnus (sp?) boats specify "Columbian Figure 206" or whatever model rudder.

And lastly, say hi to that rascal Tim for me, and thanx for not blowing my cover too badly here on this woodpecker forum. Honest guys, I sold the plastic boat!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-20-2000, 10:38 PM
TJS,
Gee, thanx! I'll certainly keep your offer in mind, I'm much obliged! I finally heard from the designer, and his thoughts are to make my own from 1/4" SS plate welded to a shaft. I could handle that, and you mentioned one of yours is similar. This one is the type with the bearing at the bottom as well, and about 5" of lead (as in "leed") in front of the shaft...counterbalanced?

I had started to think about this like a composite sailboat rudder....foam, FG, etc. Or even laminated ply over the shaft/armature assembly. Lots of ideas flying around. And thanx to all for the input.

And I remembered at least one place I'd seen commercial rudders specified in the plans....some of the Eldridge-McGinnus (sp?) boats specify "Columbian Figure 206" or whatever model rudder.

And lastly, say hi to that rascal Tim for me, and thanx for not blowing my cover too badly here on this woodpecker forum. Honest guys, I sold the plastic boat!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-20-2000, 10:38 PM
TJS,
Gee, thanx! I'll certainly keep your offer in mind, I'm much obliged! I finally heard from the designer, and his thoughts are to make my own from 1/4" SS plate welded to a shaft. I could handle that, and you mentioned one of yours is similar. This one is the type with the bearing at the bottom as well, and about 5" of lead (as in "leed") in front of the shaft...counterbalanced?

I had started to think about this like a composite sailboat rudder....foam, FG, etc. Or even laminated ply over the shaft/armature assembly. Lots of ideas flying around. And thanx to all for the input.

And I remembered at least one place I'd seen commercial rudders specified in the plans....some of the Eldridge-McGinnus (sp?) boats specify "Columbian Figure 206" or whatever model rudder.

And lastly, say hi to that rascal Tim for me, and thanx for not blowing my cover too badly here on this woodpecker forum. Honest guys, I sold the plastic boat!
Mike

tjs
09-24-2000, 11:54 PM
Hi Mike

The stainless, homemade one is sort of like you describe, but with the stainles sheet rolled around the shaft with very little in front. It has plates on the top and bottom suposedly to help channel the prop wash towards the rear. It has bearings on both the top and bottom also. I'll say hi to Tim when I see him.

tjs
09-24-2000, 11:54 PM
Hi Mike

The stainless, homemade one is sort of like you describe, but with the stainles sheet rolled around the shaft with very little in front. It has plates on the top and bottom suposedly to help channel the prop wash towards the rear. It has bearings on both the top and bottom also. I'll say hi to Tim when I see him.

tjs
09-24-2000, 11:54 PM
Hi Mike

The stainless, homemade one is sort of like you describe, but with the stainles sheet rolled around the shaft with very little in front. It has plates on the top and bottom suposedly to help channel the prop wash towards the rear. It has bearings on both the top and bottom also. I'll say hi to Tim when I see him.

nedL
09-27-2000, 01:21 PM
Dahmer Marine in Union Beach N.J. is a true manufacturer of rudders, struts, stuffing boxes, and other similar items. The company has been in business since the 1940's and used to supply many of the builders on the Jersey shore. They do have a catalog of stock items. I stopped in there a few months ago to chat; they seemed quite willing to do custom work as well if provided with the patterns. I have their ph# at home will try to post it shortly. - Ned

nedL
09-27-2000, 01:21 PM
Dahmer Marine in Union Beach N.J. is a true manufacturer of rudders, struts, stuffing boxes, and other similar items. The company has been in business since the 1940's and used to supply many of the builders on the Jersey shore. They do have a catalog of stock items. I stopped in there a few months ago to chat; they seemed quite willing to do custom work as well if provided with the patterns. I have their ph# at home will try to post it shortly. - Ned

nedL
09-27-2000, 01:21 PM
Dahmer Marine in Union Beach N.J. is a true manufacturer of rudders, struts, stuffing boxes, and other similar items. The company has been in business since the 1940's and used to supply many of the builders on the Jersey shore. They do have a catalog of stock items. I stopped in there a few months ago to chat; they seemed quite willing to do custom work as well if provided with the patterns. I have their ph# at home will try to post it shortly. - Ned

Mike Keers
09-27-2000, 08:11 PM
Ned,
That would be great! I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for resources along those lines. Hamilton Marine in Maine is the only source I have for anything like stuffing boxes and rudder ports and such...I thought there should be others. Thanx!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-27-2000, 08:11 PM
Ned,
That would be great! I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for resources along those lines. Hamilton Marine in Maine is the only source I have for anything like stuffing boxes and rudder ports and such...I thought there should be others. Thanx!
Mike

Mike Keers
09-27-2000, 08:11 PM
Ned,
That would be great! I'm sure I'm not the only one looking for resources along those lines. Hamilton Marine in Maine is the only source I have for anything like stuffing boxes and rudder ports and such...I thought there should be others. Thanx!
Mike

nedL
09-29-2000, 07:48 AM
Dahmer Marine Hardware Co., 104 Park Ave.,Union Beach, N.J. 07735. PH# (732)264-5799 FAX# (732)264-5963.
Their catalog starts out with "Since 1938 Dahmer Marine Company has been providing quality marine hardware and custom castings of bronze and aluminum to the mnarine industry." The catalog is principally rudders, struts, stuffing boxes, rudder arms, and a few through hull fittings w/ strainers. Good Luck, Ned

nedL
09-29-2000, 07:48 AM
Dahmer Marine Hardware Co., 104 Park Ave.,Union Beach, N.J. 07735. PH# (732)264-5799 FAX# (732)264-5963.
Their catalog starts out with "Since 1938 Dahmer Marine Company has been providing quality marine hardware and custom castings of bronze and aluminum to the mnarine industry." The catalog is principally rudders, struts, stuffing boxes, rudder arms, and a few through hull fittings w/ strainers. Good Luck, Ned

nedL
09-29-2000, 07:48 AM
Dahmer Marine Hardware Co., 104 Park Ave.,Union Beach, N.J. 07735. PH# (732)264-5799 FAX# (732)264-5963.
Their catalog starts out with "Since 1938 Dahmer Marine Company has been providing quality marine hardware and custom castings of bronze and aluminum to the mnarine industry." The catalog is principally rudders, struts, stuffing boxes, rudder arms, and a few through hull fittings w/ strainers. Good Luck, Ned

Mike Keers
09-30-2000, 11:02 AM
Ned,
Thanx for that information. I've contacted them about receiving a catalog.

I love this place! Mike

Mike Keers
09-30-2000, 11:02 AM
Ned,
Thanx for that information. I've contacted them about receiving a catalog.

I love this place! Mike

Mike Keers
09-30-2000, 11:02 AM
Ned,
Thanx for that information. I've contacted them about receiving a catalog.

I love this place! Mike

DougWilde
10-06-2000, 02:12 PM
Glen-L also sells a lot of powerboat fittings, including rudders and stuffing boxes. Likely is cheaper to buy directly from the manufacturer, but barring that...

Doug Wilde

DougWilde
10-06-2000, 02:12 PM
Glen-L also sells a lot of powerboat fittings, including rudders and stuffing boxes. Likely is cheaper to buy directly from the manufacturer, but barring that...

Doug Wilde

DougWilde
10-06-2000, 02:12 PM
Glen-L also sells a lot of powerboat fittings, including rudders and stuffing boxes. Likely is cheaper to buy directly from the manufacturer, but barring that...

Doug Wilde