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willmarsh3
08-02-2014, 10:24 AM
This is interesting and apparently not some crackpot internet rumor.

DHS agents seize land rover apparently over EPA violations.

http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Blog-3931.112112-8627.112112-Homeland-Security-Agents-Raid-Home-to-Seize-Land-Rover-For-Violation-of-EPA.html


http://video.foxnews.com/v/3707983552001/dhs-seizes-land-rover-over-epa-regulations/#sp=show-clips

Hunky Dory
08-02-2014, 10:27 AM
They can have all the land rovers as far as I'm concerned. I certainly don't want one.

ron ll
08-02-2014, 10:35 AM
Those two sources sure look like crackpot internet rumors to me.

Bubba L.
08-02-2014, 10:36 AM
Sure looks like crackpot rumor to me.

Gene

Waddie
08-02-2014, 10:39 AM
That was one wildly inaccurate article. And this from the comments section below the article seems more the truth;


When I first heard about the DHS seizing old foreign made vehicles, particularly Land Rovers, I was shocked. As I understand the complaint, vehicles less than 25 years old must comply with NHTSA safety and EPA emissions standards and the vehicles that were seized are allegedly more than 25 years old. On that basis, it raises concerns that ALL vehicles more than 25 years old may eventually be on some list for seizure. But upon further investigation, it turns out that the vehicles being seized were on a list because of suspected fraud "" these vehicles were suspected of having their VIN illegally changed, a practice used to make a newer vehicle seem older in order to skirt import laws.

While seizure by means of raid by DHS agents at a private residence seems a bit excessive, it should considered that this precautionary measure is not unfounded since whatever agency is conducting the seizures may encounter an illegal import ring, which might also be involved in other illegal activities, and not yield peacefully. Illegal imports are a Customs issue, and the US Customs Service was dissolved in 2003 to form part of DHS. So, yes, DHS would, and should, be handling this.

US Citizen

regards,
Waddie

Ian McColgin
08-02-2014, 10:48 AM
Once you get past some rightwing falsified hysteria, we see that for several years there has been a recognized problem with some (I think rather wonderful) Land Rover models, notably the current Defender, that do not meet the emmissions and safety standards other new autos both domestic and imported meet. Rich people have been finding ways to import these vehicles in rather open and knowing violation of the laws. And now they are getting caught and whine to the right wing hystero-press. Buck up babies. If you have the cash for the crime, you have it to lose when you're caught.

* * *

CBP Targets, Intercepts Illegally Imported Vehicles
Release Date: April 15, 2013

WASHINGTON, D.C.—U.S. Customs and Border Protection is on the lookout for illegal imports of Land Rover Defender vehicles that do not meet federal safety standards, including the standard that requires airbags. This year, CBP has identified dozens of illegal shipments at various ports of entry across the United States, including Baltimore, Charleston, S.C., Jacksonville, Fla., and Savannah, Ga.

Most recently on March 5, CBP officers at the port of Norfolk, working closely with the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, seized a shipment of two imported Land Rover Defender vehicles. CBP officers seized the shipment following the determination that the vehicle identification numbers on the vehicles were found to be fraudulently manipulated. The VINs were changed to make the vehicles appear older than they are to take advantage of an exemption that allows vehicles that are at least 25 years old to be imported without regard to whether they comply with federal motor vehicle safety standards. The shipment arriving from Great Britain had been targeted for examination by CBP's Commercial Targeting and Analysis Center in Washington, D.C.

"Ensuring the safety of imported products is a top priority for CBP," said Allen Gina, CBP's assistant commissioner for international trade. "The concerted targeting efforts of CTAC and the vigilance of CBP officers and import specialists at our ports of entry will help ensure that unsafe vehicles from overseas markets do not reach our roadways."

NHTSA regulates imported motor vehicles. Illegally imported vehicles can pose potential safety hazards to drivers and all road users.

"Safety is the Department of Transportation's top priority," said NHTSA Administrator David Strickland. "Those who illegally import Defenders and fraudulently offer the vehicles for sale are motivated by profit and do so at the expense of U.S. consumers and legitimate U.S. businesses that follow the law. We continue to work with our partners at CBP and the CTAC to prevent the importation of illegal vehicles and to inform consumers about the presence of and potential safety risks associated with these vehicles."

Since October 2012, CBP has seized more than a dozen illegal Land Rover Defender vehicles for violating NHTSA and Environmental Protection Agency regulations, for a total value of approximately $250,000. The overseas value for this model of vehicle is approximately $25,000. However, the resale value in the U.S. can run as much as $150,000 per vehicle depending on its model year, condition, and because these vehicles cannot be lawfully imported into the U.S. unless they are at least 25 years old. A significant portion of those shipments arrived into the U.S. via sea cargo from Great Britain.

Prospective buyers of imported vehicles can confirm the validity of the vehicle by checking the VIN in a vehicle history report. Buyers who suspect a vehicle is being illegally imported are encouraged to report suspected trade violations. All information submitted to CBP is voluntary and confidential. To report a possible trade violation, please visit eAllegations.

# # #

wizbang 13
08-02-2014, 10:55 AM
What is the difference between a Land Rover and a porcupine?
Porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

ron ll
08-02-2014, 11:01 AM
What is the difference between a Land Rover and a porcupine?
Porcupine has the pricks on the outside.

That joke is usually told about a Porsche. :)

stromborg
08-02-2014, 11:13 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Land_Rover_Defender_front_20070518.jpg

I always thought the Defender was a cool ride, though not worth jail time (or $150,000).

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 11:28 AM
Are you trying to tell me there are consequences to buying and driving an illegal vehicle and that the big government everyone hates failed to adequately protect someone from doing it? Shocking! There should be a law. Oh, there is?

Bubba L.
08-02-2014, 11:59 AM
That lib Bush and his homeland security!

Gene

Garret
08-02-2014, 12:10 PM
There are many "illegal" LR's in the US (many being a relative term - as there just aren't many LR's in the US of any stripe). Thing is, LR never sold any diesels here. The V8 (that's US legal) gets 12mpg highway, the diesel gets close to 30 - with very similar performance.

What makes this stupid is that you can convert a US LR to diesel yourself & it's legal. You cannot import a whole LR (that might be identical to what you create) - but you can import the engine.

Another piece is that about 20 years ago (or thereabouts - not sure of the date) LR went to a much better engine - so people want the newer one - hence the illegal importation.

This really is big brother - especially when there are so many more important things for the gov't to do.

skaraborgcraft
08-02-2014, 12:21 PM
I have a few contacts in the LR world if anyone wants one......
Those old 2.5 NA engines were on the smokey side, but the 200/300Tdi where a world of difference.

bobbys
08-02-2014, 12:35 PM
First they came for you're land rover and I said nothing........

Ian McColgin
08-02-2014, 12:37 PM
Then they came for your smuggled blood diamonds and I still said nothing . . .

Waddie
08-02-2014, 12:45 PM
I have no problem with the government enforcing our import laws. I wish they would show the same zeal on human imports.

regards,
Waddie

sheerline
08-02-2014, 01:59 PM
This prick loves his 1953 series 1 Landrover. I don't have to MOT it or pay for road tax here in the UK. It increases in value every year and is great fun to drive and my trusty work wagon. I had the 200 tdi fitted and it purrs. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/03/6e8a7unu.jpg

Happy as a pig in ***t

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 02:37 PM
I've been thinking about the increasing number of selfish pr1cks in our society. George Takei, who was on Bill Mahr the other day, spoke about being relocated in WWII by American soldiers at the point of a bayonet. In spite of that, he has great humor and he loves this country. In contrast, we have the ignorant, reactionary right wing that screams if they can't carry their rifles into K-Mart, or buy illegal cars, or graze their cattle on land they don't own, or reserve health care only for themselves. I'm sick of them. I want to puke every time I hear one more selfish pr1ck talk about "their rights". What about their obligations and their responsibilities? Why don't we ever hear about that? We should take that pig of a car and jam it up their @sses. Her father didn't fight for her right to do anything she wants. He fought for the right to vote in a society ruled by law.

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 02:52 PM
Under orders from a Liberal President.

Blah, blah. More of the same.

When Jesus Christ runs for office I'll vote for him. Meanwhile, we get the selfish society that reflects our own actions.

Peerie Maa
08-02-2014, 02:57 PM
This prick loves his 1953 series 1 Landrover. I don't have to MOT it or pay for road tax here in the UK. It increases in value every year and is great fun to drive and my trusty work wagon. I had the 200 tdi fitted and it purrs. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/03/6e8a7unu.jpg

Happy as a pig in ***t

I see that the weather is no better dahn sarth that it is here in Barrow.

Jim Bow
08-02-2014, 03:35 PM
Frankly, when the headlights were moved to the fenders (headlamps were moved to the wings), they stopped being real Land Rovers.

Canoeyawl
08-02-2014, 03:56 PM
Under orders from a Liberal President.

A conservative president would have sent him back to Japan

ccmanuals
08-02-2014, 04:09 PM
A conservative president would have sent him back to Japan

Or GITMO to be waterboarded.

Peerie Maa
08-02-2014, 04:16 PM
George Takei, who was on Bill Mahr the other day, spoke about being relocated in WWII by American soldiers at the point of a bayonet.

Typical OTT Yanks.

Over seventy years ago, my family and I were forced from our home in Los Angeles at gunpoint by U.S. soldiers and sent to Rohwer, all because we happened to look like the people who bombed Pearl Harbor. I was just five years old, and would spend much of my childhood behind barbed wire in that camp and, later, another in California called Tule Lake. One hundred twenty thousand other Japanese Americans from the West Coast suffered a similar fate.

This is how we went about it

Contributed by Freddy Godshaw (http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/user/91/u1115291.shtml)
People in story: Freddy Godshaw
Location of story: Hutchinson Camp, Isle of Man
Background to story: Civilian
Article ID: A3332611Contributed on: 26 November 2004
When war broke out in September 1939 I had only been in England for five weeks. My parents, my sister, brother and I had come from Germany as Jewish Refugees from Nazi Oppression. We had to register with the police on arrival. Obviously as soon war was declared out status changed from just Alien to Enemy Alien. We had to appear before a tribunal to decide if we were genuine refugees or were Nazi sympathizers. There were three categories. ‘A’ were the known Nazis who were interned immediately, ‘B’ were the doubtful ones who had restrictions placed on them i.e. no radios, needing permission to travel etc. ‘C’ were all the rest and almost all the Jewish Refugees. During the ‘Phony War’, which lasted until May 1940 when the Nazi’s invaded the Low Countries and France, we had virtually no restriction and I worked as an instrument maker at Murphy Radio in Welwyn Garden City. All that changed when France fell and the British Army was evacuated from Dunkirk. The threat of an invasion was imminent. Churchill became Prime Minister he apparently used the phrase ‘Collar the Lot’ meaning to intern the app. 20,000 German Nationals in the British Isles. My father who then was almost 60 and who only had been released from a Nazi Concentration Camp 18 months earlier, was interned in June 1940. I, at that time was not allowed to work at Murphy Radio any longer as they had a directive from the Air Ministry to immediately get rid of all their non-British employees. I managed to get a job with a local watchmaker. A week later a burly policeman arrived on our doorstep to intern me. Apparently anyone who was not on important war work was to be interned. It was lunchtime and my brother who was 3 years older than I walked in for his lunch break from a local munitions factory. The policeman asked him ‘Who are you?’ Walter gave his name and than was asked where he worked. When the policeman was told that the was doing war work he said ‘I might as well intern you today, saves me coming back for you tomorrow.’ He escorted us to the local police station where we were shown to the back room. There were no cells and the sergeant’s wife who lived over the station gave us a cup of tea and home made cakes

Captain Intrepid
08-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Under orders from a Liberal President.

Man, nearly 70 years later and conservatives are still whining about FDR. Talk about sore losers!

ccmanuals
08-02-2014, 04:20 PM
I don't believe any US residents were detained in GITMO.

You sure?


The United States Department of Defense acknowledges holding 99 American citizens captured in Afghanistan, during the "war on terror", and one of them was held, for a time, in Guantanamo.[1] Guantanamo was only supposed to be used to detain non-Americans. But although Yasser Hamdi was born in the US, he was raised in Saudi Arabia, and Joint Task Force Guantanamo counter-terrorism analysts did not realize he was an American. He was eventually repatriated to Saudi Arabia, provided he agreed to renounce his US citizenship.

Ian McColgin
08-02-2014, 04:24 PM
You'd think that Bill Clinton and Barak Obama would have supplanted, not just added to, rightie foaming at the mouth. But no; they still get mad at de Tocqueville praising the US's progressive prisons. Plenty of foam remaining for FDR, even from folk who were not alive at the time.

Phil Y
08-02-2014, 04:25 PM
What next, Seagull outboards?

bobbys
08-02-2014, 04:29 PM
Man, nearly 70 years later and conservatives are still whining about FDR. Talk about sore losers!
.
CWsmith brought it up.

The Gentleman Sawyer
08-02-2014, 04:33 PM
This prick loves his 1953 series 1 Landrover. I don't have to MOT it or pay for road tax here in the UK. It increases in value every year and is great fun to drive and my trusty work wagon. I had the 200 tdi fitted and it purrs. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/03/6e8a7unu.jpg

Happy as a pig in ***t

When the 2.25 in my Series III 88 ( legal US model with padded dash no less) gives up the ghost, its gonna get a TDI.

Ken

bobbys
08-02-2014, 04:33 PM
You'd think that Bill Clinton and Barak Obama would have supplanted, not just added to, rightie foaming at the mouth. But no; they still get mad at de Tocqueville praising the US's progressive prisons. Plenty of foam remaining for FDR, even from folk who were not alive at the time.
.CW smith brought it up.

I asked my dad about the camps in WW2..

He said he would have liked to have been in those camps instead of jumping off landing crafts into machine gun fire that took out the first wave of marines.

course I will say the 442 was one of the most decorated units.

bobbys
08-02-2014, 04:34 PM
What next, Seagull outboards?
.

I have one.

But now I'm hiding it along with my 2stroke lawn mower.

Hwyl
08-02-2014, 04:34 PM
Getting back to the subject. Defenders were only legal here for a short time. Any car that is over 25 years old can be imported and you can change anything but the chassis, so Garrett is not quite right when he says people are importing them for the TDi. Defenders are considered highly desirable here in the US.


It would be economic to buy a 1988 Defender (LHD) for about $5000, ship it over here and throw a diesel in it, and long travel springs (in fact I am thinking about it)

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
Typical OTT Yanks.

To be fair, they did it in Canada, too. Sorry, Canada.

There is a multitude of old sins we can debate, but our goal should be to shine a light on those things we can actually change. The unapologetic greed and self-interest of today's society is a blight on our character. It holds us back from becoming the society we are capable of being. We don't have the right to disregard the laws we don't like - only the laws that are immoral. There is a lot of empty rhetoric today that attempts to elevate selfishness to a high moral stand and we should reject that out of hand.

skuthorp
08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
I doubt there's a current regulation in existence anywhere that my old 1953 model would comply with. I no longer own it, but it's still about.

Peerie Maa
08-02-2014, 04:39 PM
To be fair, they did it in Canada, too. Sorry, Canada.




At gunpoint?

Panic must be contagious.

bobbys
08-02-2014, 04:39 PM
To be fair, they did it in Canada, too. Sorry, Canada.

There is a multitude of old sins we can debate, but our goal should be to shine a light on those things we can actually change. The unapologetic greed and self-interest of today's society is a blight on our character. It holds us back from becoming the society we are capable of being. We don't have the right to disregard the laws we don't like - only the laws that are immoral. There is a lot of empty rhetoric today that attempts to elevate selfishness to a high moral stand and we should reject that out of hand.
.

How many times has the ACA been changed?

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 04:43 PM
At gunpoint?

Well, it was forced. Whether they had bayonets fixed I don't know.

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 04:45 PM
How many times has the ACA been changed?

That's what you got from my remarks? Unbelievable!

bobbys
08-02-2014, 05:07 PM
That's what you got from my remarks? Unbelievable!
.

You brought up health care in post 20,..
. Somehow the 1940s were relevant to you to link present day conservatives that you cherry picked.
You are not making much sense today.

bobbys
08-02-2014, 05:09 PM
At gunpoint?

Panic must be contagious.
.
well England gets around this sticky business by getting the Argentinians off first then claiming there are not any there so it must be England's..

LOL

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 05:14 PM
You brought up health care in post 20,..
. Somehow the 1940s were relevant to you to link present day conservatives that you cherry picked.
You are not making much sense today.

OK, I'll bite. Can you explain how changes in the ACA reflect selfishness on the part of whoever? Please be specific. I want a cogent argument.

Reynard38
08-02-2014, 05:17 PM
A possible illegal land rover may be driving on our highways?
Oh the horror!

GM prouducts shutting down while driving, that's OK.

A 30mpg land rover? That is a horror for the oil companies.

Know of several folks that have them. Many are brought over CKD (completely knocked down) and reassembled here, then registered at kit cars.
CBP, what a fricken joke.

bobbys
08-02-2014, 05:21 PM
OK, I'll bite. Can you explain how changes in the ACA reflect selfishness on the part of whoever? Please be specific. I want a cogent argument.
.

you talked about law.

OK .

I get it.

but the ACA act that was voted on is not the same one that exists today.

it got changed willy nilly.

it was deception.

push the law through just to get it then change it as you go.

Thats not late that's decree.

In other words we might as well have a King..
.

Now I expect a argument from you free of insults or having you're buddies cover for you.

Bubba L.
08-02-2014, 05:35 PM
To be fair, they did it in Canada, too. Sorry, Canada.

There is a multitude of old sins we can debate, but our goal should be to shine a light on those things we can actually change. The unapologetic greed and self-interest of today's society is a blight on our character. It holds us back from becoming the society we are capable of being. We don't have the right to disregard the laws we don't like - only the laws that are immoral. There is a lot of empty rhetoric today that attempts to elevate selfishness to a high moral stand and we should reject that out of hand.

I like the way that you put that.

Gene

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 05:39 PM
you talked about law.

OK .

I get it.

No, I don't think you do.


but the ACA act that was voted on is not the same one that exists today.

it got changed willy nilly.[/QUOTE]

No, it was changed as a result of immense political push back.


it was deception.

...on the part of conservatives who have not been even remotely honest about their intentions.


push the law through just to get it then change it as you go.

Push, yes. With intent to change? Well, make it more powerful in future years, yes.


Thats not late that's decree.

In other words we might as well have a King..

I don't think you understand the problem or its history even remotely.


Now I expect a argument from you free of insults or having you're buddies cover for you.

I have not used insults, or I certainly did not think that anything I said should be taken as an insult. Perhaps you are challenged by someone who disagrees with you?

In any event, you are reaching to move my remarks to another subject and I don't plan to entertain you further.

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 05:40 PM
I like the way that you put that.

Gene

Thank you. I like your tag line.

Bubba L.
08-02-2014, 05:41 PM
.

How many times has the ACA been changed?

None. Only the pace of implementation has been changed, and that has been done to overcome unforeseen difficulties. Also, the goal of the ACA is to help more people get medical insurance. Hardly an immoral law or goal.

Gene

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 05:43 PM
None. Only the pace of implementation has been changed, and that has been done to overcome unforeseen difficulties. Also, the goal of the ACA is to help more people get medical insurance. Hardly an immoral law or goal.

Gene

That's a much better answer than mine. Thank you.

skuthorp
08-02-2014, 05:45 PM
I see bobbys is about his usual obsessions and distractions again.

Ian McColgin
08-02-2014, 06:11 PM
I guess I just missed any connection between rich pigs smuggling in what they know to be unlawful Land Rover Defenders to make themselves look studly but in better taste than their neighbors in Hummers and the ACA. Must be a limitation on my mind, the handicap of seeking facts, because I'm just not Right.

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 06:16 PM
Sorry, but that just is not the case. Many of the changes have been delays in implementation, but many have been outright unilateral alterations in functions and requirements of the law.

Here's the list of 42 changes. (http://www.galen.org/newsletters/changes-to-obamacare-so-far/)

However, the original claim was that the changes were made by "decree". Most of those changes were made either by Congress (a vote) or by the Supreme Court (also a vote, but bordering on decree) and I think the original claim was an attempt to pin it on Obama.

CWSmith
08-02-2014, 06:23 PM
No...your math (actually arithmetic) is not correct. 24 by Obama, 16 by Congress and 2 by SCOTUS.

Really? I'll look again.

purri
08-02-2014, 06:59 PM
It appears a specialist unit of the USMC uses Landy Defenders. Will the DHS impound theirs?

purri
08-02-2014, 07:53 PM
yep.

The Bigfella
08-02-2014, 09:21 PM
http://themellowjihadi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/3-1954-Land-Rover-Series-I-86-inch-600x450.jpg

Re the USMC..... I believe the LR ticked all the boxes for use with the V22 Osprey

... and yes, I know this is an AW101, not an Osprey

http://themellowjihadi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/EH101_02_2_.jpg


The Land Rover Wolf was proposed for the USMC, but it didn't happen in the end...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Wolf#Service

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Lrwolf2.jpg

The Bigfella
08-02-2014, 09:27 PM
Haven't found a photo in US trim, but this guy (http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/117265-usmc-land-rovers/) seems to think the USMC got 60 of these

http://www.milweb.net/webverts/58064/b.jpg

Paul Pless
08-02-2014, 09:42 PM
I can't find any examples of LR's being used by our military. . .

AnalogKid
08-02-2014, 09:52 PM
There's no Defenders yet that meet the 25-year rule. The first coil-sprung Land Rover-shaped Land Rovers (not Discoveries or Range Rovers) were called One-Tens or Nineties (according to the wheelbase in inches). The One-Ten came out in 1983 IIRC and the Ninety came out the following year. The Defender name did not apply until 1990 when the Discovery derived 200Tdi engine was put into the Land Rovers also. There were some NAS Defender 110s and 90s built and legitimately imported, all V8 automatics I think (NAS means North American Specification), but only the earliest rest-of-the-world or UK spec vehicles is legal in the US.

I don't think the EPA rules is the reason for the seizures - the road safety rules alone a so strict as to always have caused problems for privately imported vehicles that aren't quite old enough, and legitimately imported Land Rovers have always been in short enough supply for some to think it worth the risk.

The Bigfella
08-02-2014, 10:09 PM
There's no Defenders yet that meet the 25-year rule. The first coil-sprung Land Rover-shaped Land Rovers (not Discoveries or Range Rovers) were called One-Tens or Nineties (according to the wheelbase in inches). The One-Ten came out in 1983 IIRC and the Ninety came out the following year. The Defender name did not apply until 1990 when the Discovery derived 200Tdi engine was put into the Land Rovers also. There were some NAS Defender 110s and 90s built and legitimately imported, all V8 automatics I think (NAS means North American Specification), but only the earliest rest-of-the-world or UK spec vehicles is legal in the US.

I don't think the EPA rules is the reason for the seizures - the road safety rules alone a so strict as to always have caused problems for privately imported vehicles that aren't quite old enough, and legitimately imported Land Rovers have always been in short enough supply for some to think it worth the risk.

I remember reading a magazine article on braking distances. At one end of the scale were various Ferarris and the BMW M5.... and at about double their braking distance from 60 mph, there was the Land Rover Defender.

If you see one in your rear view mirror.... be scared.

AnalogKid
08-02-2014, 10:16 PM
How about the Ranger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_Special_Operations_Vehicle). I've seen pictures in Land Rover magazines of Land Rover vehicles being operated by US personnel on overseas deployments, whether the vehicles were on loan/trial or owned by those US units I couldn't say, and I don't have those magazines anymore.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/RSOV_at_National_War_College_April_19%2C_2001.JPEG/800px-RSOV_at_National_War_College_April_19%2C_2001.JPEG

The Bigfella
08-02-2014, 10:22 PM
The only flags I can see here are coke cans. Brit or American?

http://themellowjihadi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/3_zpsf3e3e840.jpg

This next lot are Royal Marines.... seems to be same weapons as above

http://themellowjihadi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Royal-Marines-zeroing-wpns-WMIK-LRs_ranges.jpg

Now this one (http://militarymashup.com/special-forces-vehicle.htm)..... is definitely American... but not USMC, is it?

http://militarymashup.com/mmu_get_jpeg.php?1ec77640d307e5577f1f5671bb9d9c545


Land Rover Defender Multi Role Combat Vehicle (MRCV) from B Company, 1st Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment on display for students from the National War College, Hunter Army Air Field, GA, 19 April 2001.

Canoeyawl
08-02-2014, 10:26 PM
I can't find any examples of LR's being used by our military. . .

http://www.americanspecialops.com/vehicles/sov/

The Bigfella
08-02-2014, 10:31 PM
http://www.americanspecialops.com/vehicles/sov/

Yes, for a brotm (he doesn't really deserve capital letters after this, does he?).... his Googlefoo is bad

purri
08-02-2014, 10:40 PM
Thank you gentlemen, I rest my case.


BTW I have spoken to folks from your way deployed on "long looks" some years ago at our Land HQ . (101 Airborne etcetera). Despite inter corps rivalry they did speak of them well and disparaged that the proposal as a common use vehicle was canned.

AnalogKid
08-02-2014, 11:20 PM
When abouts was that Purri? These days even the British Army is abandoning Landy use because in the kind of deployments common these days even the light utilities need to have armour. The Snatch Rovers used in NI were OK against small arms fire but even they just don't hack it against IEDs, and of course the Wolfs might have had a stronger chassis but the 'protection' consisted of nothing more than Birmabright and canvas.

Probably the most kickass version though was the 6x6 Oz version:
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/004643/4643753.jpg

purri
08-03-2014, 02:16 AM
I worked in the belly of the beast for much of the 90s. FWIW during the 1st golf war it wasn't comforting having a courier case manacled to one's wrist, much less doing unarmed guard duty. Get my drift?

Yes the Perentie version is quite adequate. And now I shall not answer further on specific matters. Ta.

The Bigfella
08-03-2014, 02:50 AM
I worked in the belly of the beast for much of the 90s. FWIW during the 1st golf war it wasn't comforting having a courier case manacled to one's wrist, much less doing unarmed guard duty. Get my drift?

Yes the Perentie version is quite adequate. And now I shall not answer further on specific matters. Ta.

Oh, c'mon.... we all want to know about doing unarmed guard duty on the stationery cabinet.... :d

purri
08-03-2014, 03:06 AM
more fool is the fool who foul their nest and and don't understand why they are shunned..

The Bigfella
08-03-2014, 04:20 AM
more fool is the fool who foul their nest and and don't understand why they are shunned..


heh, heh.... I know man love is a difficult thing for some to come to grips with.... but I'm sure if you keep thinking about it, you'll manage it. You seem to be running at about 50% of your posts based on following me around. Either come to grips with it, or find the ignore tool.... it'll probably give you more satisfaction than the one you are playing with now.

purri
08-03-2014, 05:02 AM
cdo...

Ian McColgin
08-03-2014, 05:35 AM
I am glad that in recognition that the OP was simply inflamatory right wing hysteria falsely claiming Obama repression, that the real issue is rich self-entitled jerks seeking a studly ride, we have moved on to military gear arcana and homophobic sputtering.

purri
08-03-2014, 05:57 AM
^ my ref to USMC was merely that I always fail to differentiate between US Corps or other US specialist equivalents. The "sputtering" I leave to those qualified...

Phillip Allen
08-03-2014, 06:05 AM
why would DHS be doing this when it's an EPA concern?

bamamick
08-03-2014, 06:20 AM
I like that Defender very much but will never travel in those circles. I like a lot of Land Rover models, but have always been very shy about buying one because of a not-so-good reputation for dependability. Of course, I have owned two Jeep Grand Wagoneers and three other Jeeps of different stripes and I don't think there has ever been a less dependable vehicle made in the US, so what do I know?

One of my retirement presents to myself will be a 'last' Grand Wagoneer. The other will be a catboat I can camp cruise in.

Mickey Lake

Paul Pless
08-03-2014, 06:25 AM
why would DHS be doing this when it's an EPA concern?
DHS offers a catchier headline. EPA and NHTSA may create the regulations, but it's Customs and Border Patrol (a dept of of DHS) that enforce small scale import laws. It's just one of those bits of propaganda and bias you're all the time spouting off about. . .

Phillip Allen
08-03-2014, 06:28 AM
DHS offers a catchier headline. EPA and NHTSA may create the regulations, but it's Customs and Border Patrol (a dept of of DHS) that enforce small scale import laws. It's just one of those bits of propaganda and bias you're all the time spouting off about. . .

hows about we shut down the dhs and fire all their emploees... they can sell their WWII size order of ammo (think 'denial of service attack') back to the public that bought it in the first place.

bamamick
08-03-2014, 06:44 AM
Donn, to be fair, the second one I had came with a Chrysler truck engine, and it ran just fine, but it did have sorts of other little problems. The 12-14 mpg wasn't so good, but if I hadn't had to buy my F250 to tow the Dragon I might still have it. I truly loved that vehicle.

Mickey Lake

Ian McColgin
08-03-2014, 06:46 AM
Donn is correct so far as the literal words of the OP go.

Since DHS is rather like our gestapo and since EPA is right wing code for almost all government excesses, both cites in the OP are scripted to enrage. As one learns reading the more sober stories from a year and by reading Land Rover sites on Defender availability, it's not like these people had any excuse for ignorance. And nothing much to do with EPA. The Defender does not meet US safety standards, most notably air bags, that all auto makers selling lawfully in the US manage to meet. That's a manufacturing and marketing decision and a perfectly legitimate one at that. Land Rover has other vehicles that market better in the US anyway.

If you really want to use a Defender and are rich, move to South Africa and get one with the Rhino package. Shoot an elephant. Be a man.

Phillip Allen
08-03-2014, 06:58 AM
We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo...

Paul Pless
08-03-2014, 07:01 AM
I'd say I'm pretty right wingLOL iii

Ian McColgin
08-03-2014, 07:02 AM
Perhaps.

I'm just glad we can all agree that, since the story of not importing new Defenders is a decade or so old and since the practice of attempting to evade import laws is so widely publicized and the problems pointed out by the responsible Land Rover sites, the folks getting newer Defenders have little excuse for outrage. This recent flurry of one media segment's faux outrage is . . . maybe it was just a slow news day.

Ian McColgin
08-03-2014, 07:18 AM
Perhaps Donn missed the fact that this on-line blog/forum of the Observer simply reprinted a piece by Alex Jones' Infowars. Alex Jones has the honor of being one of the few on hate radio who makes Limbaugh sound marginally reasonable. Remember his bit on federal government complicity in the Oklahoma City bombing?

This issue of Land Rover Defenders is over a decade old, as is the habit of rich folks with a sense of entitlement attempting to find a way to have this cool car. This 'human interest victim of big government' story is just right wing propaganda.

Hwyl
08-03-2014, 07:22 AM
The first jeep he was issued (at the Chosin Reservoir) was fitted with a full snorkle kit, .


Did you mean to say "snorkel"?

Bubba L.
08-03-2014, 07:43 AM
We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo-We don’t have a Gestapo...

Are you certain?:d

Gene

Ian McColgin
08-03-2014, 07:53 AM
Perhaps. At the bottom of that first cite in the OP the origin is honorably ascribed ashttp://www.infowars.com/homeland-security-agents-raid-home-to-seize-land-rover-for-violation-of-epa-regulations/ . I'd not known of it before some of our righties posted from that site so I looked them up. Sort of a rightwing less reliable version of the left's AddictingInfo site, which is another I don't instictivly trust without getting to the primary sourse.

I like thoughtful analysis and sharp point of view essays but I don't like the sites that just attempt to flog an obscure ideological point, and too many both left and right do only that. For the left, it was worse in the '60s when debates over how many commissars could dance on the head of a pin abounded. But for the last thirty or so years, we've had the right parsing language with all the enthusiasm of a Stalinist. And it's worked to the extent that and Eisenhower or even a Sen Taft seems liberal to the unthinking. Goldwater and Buckley must be sobbing in their graves.

purri
08-03-2014, 07:56 AM
I believe they are.

Garret
08-03-2014, 08:22 AM
@ Gareth: Yes, petrol Defenders can be bought in the US. Maybe not this year, but there have been many years when you could buy them. 90's only - not 110's or 130's. This means that the majority imported are diesel.

@ Ian: I'm rather surprised by your judgmental vitriol. Are you equally perturbed ("Rich pigs") by US made SUV drivers? Fact is, except for a couple of years of Jeep models with a diesel, one cannot buy a diesel 4WD that's not a full size pickup in the US. While there's no doubt that there are some buying the LR's for their "studliness", there are others who have use for a vehicle that will carry a good load, haul a good sized trailer & get almost 30mpg on the highway, I guess you'd rather they drove the US version that gets 12mpg or buy another brand that gets 20.

So - the gov't spends $100,000 (or whatever) to "rid the world" of one LR that most likely meets all the safety specs for the year, but just hasn't been "officially blessed' by the DOT. I bet that makes you feel really proud of how our gov't is looking out for us. I am surprised at (& disappointed in) at knee-jerk reaction.

Ian McColgin
08-03-2014, 08:58 AM
I agree Garret. The Hummer is an especial outrage.

I also have always admired the Defender over the years. In '73 I almost bought one but, not knowing how easily and cheaply an overdrive could be added and planning a cross country move, settled for a 69 Volvo 145 S that lasted me twenty five years. Missed another opportunity when a friend in Oregon managed to aquire a pile of slightly damaged Perkins diesels and slightly damaged Defender bodies that mated nicely. Really, the idea of an aluminum jeep is brilliant.

The fact that I dump on the faux outrage on behalf of some of the entitled does not in any way imply that I think there's a good excuse for black smoke.

bobbys
08-03-2014, 10:46 AM
@ Gareth: Yes, petrol Defenders can be bought in the US. Maybe not this year, but there have been many years when you could buy them. 90's only - not 110's or 130's. This means that the majority imported are diesel.

@ Ian: I'm rather surprised by your judgmental vitriol. Are you equally perturbed ("Rich pigs") by US made SUV drivers? Fact is, except for a couple of years of Jeep models with a diesel, one cannot buy a diesel 4WD that's not a full size pickup in the US. While there's no doubt that there are some buying the LR's for their "studliness", there are others who have use for a vehicle that will carry a good load, haul a good sized trailer & get almost 30mpg on the highway, I guess you'd rather they drove the US version that gets 12mpg or buy another brand that gets 20.

So - the gov't spends $100,000 (or whatever) to "rid the world" of one LR that most likely meets all the safety specs for the year, but just hasn't been "officially blessed' by the DOT. I bet that makes you feel really proud of how our gov't is looking out for us. I am surprised at (& disappointed in) at knee-jerk reaction.
.

We went to buy a jeep, we looked at a liberty my wife liked, I looked over ,someone just traded in a diesel liberty and right off sugar plum Fairies danced through me head dreaming of 30mpg.

Then reality hit me.
My wife would never figure out how to fuel up...

My son has a big diesel truck he likes it but diesel costs almost as much as gas now.

bobbys
08-03-2014, 10:49 AM
Perhaps. At the bottom of that first cite in the OP the origin is honorably ascribed ashttp://www.infowars.com/homeland-security-agents-raid-home-to-seize-land-rover-for-violation-of-epa-regulations/ . I'd not known of it before some of our righties posted from that site so I looked them up. Sort of a rightwing less reliable version of the left's AddictingInfo site, which is another I don't instictivly trust without getting to the primary sourse.

I like thoughtful analysis and sharp point of view essays but I don't like the sites that just attempt to flog an obscure ideological point, and too many both left and right do only that. For the left, it was worse in the '60s when debates over how many commissars could dance on the head of a pin abounded. But for the last thirty or so years, we've had the right parsing language with all the enthusiasm of a Stalinist. And it's worked to the extent that and Eisenhower or even a Sen Taft seems liberal to the unthinking. Goldwater and Buckley must be sobbing in their graves.
.

You probably missed the irony in you're own post of a obscure ideological point.

Garret
08-03-2014, 10:57 AM
.My son has a big diesel truck he likes it but diesel costs almost as much as gas now.

Around here it's 20 cents more per gallon. However 29 mpg v. 12 certainly speaks for a diesel - or in the case of a VW Jetta I just sold - 45 instead of 28.