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isla
07-31-2014, 04:25 PM
I have a pet peeve, his name is Spot. OK old joke, but I was wondering if you guys would care to share your pet peeves.

My understanding of a peeve is something very minor which irritates or annoys you. Not the major issues, such as politics, religion, gun regulation, climate change etc. but those things which are so insignificant that it is almost embarrassing to admit that they bother you.

My pet peeve for today is the misuse of the two words bought and brought. I hear it all the time, even in TV and radio broadcasts. A classic example is a recent visitor to my house who said "I hope you don't mind but I bought my dog with me". I also hear it the other way around, brought for bought.."I just brought a camera off ebay". What's going on? When I was a kid we had a teacher who had us repeat "Buy - Bought, Bring - Brought" over and over. I guess nobody does that anymore.

OK, I'll go away and get a life now Y:o

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 04:30 PM
the proper way to say it is "I brung my dog with me"

Bubba L.
07-31-2014, 04:30 PM
Wow! I've never heard that one. Mine is using whenever when they really mean when.

Don't worry about a life, they're over rated.

Gene

Bubba L.
07-31-2014, 04:32 PM
Ex: whenever I went the store at noon today...

Gene

skuthorp
07-31-2014, 04:32 PM
Them what don't pick up their wet towels off the bathroom floor, and then use another one, and another one………….
(mumble……mumble…….)

and don't even ask about tooth paste!

Hwyl
07-31-2014, 04:39 PM
Mine is "Prolly" I've ranted about it before. Then there's: Peak,pique and peek.

I just hate people who mix cynosure and sinecure (though I'm the only person I know to have done that).

Paul Pless
07-31-2014, 04:55 PM
i hate being late, i hate it even more when i'm late because of someone else. . .

Peerie Maa
07-31-2014, 05:04 PM
I have a pet peeve, his name is Spot. OK old joke, but I was wondering if you guys would care to share your pet peeves.

My understanding of a peeve is something very minor which irritates or annoys you. Not the major issues, such as politics, religion, gun regulation, climate change etc. but those things which are so insignificant that it is almost embarrassing to admit that they bother you.

My pet peeve for today is the misuse of the two words bought and brought. I hear it all the time, even in TV and radio broadcasts. A classic example is a recent visitor to my house who said "I hope you don't mind but I bought my dog with me". I also hear it the other way around, brought for bought.."I just brought a camera off ebay". What's going on? When I was a kid we had a teacher who had us repeat "Buy - Bought, Bring - Brought" over and over. I guess nobody does that anymore.

OK, I'll go away and get a life now Y:o

Whatever;)

Paul Pless
07-31-2014, 05:11 PM
Whatever;)beautifully played

John of Phoenix
07-31-2014, 05:14 PM
Car commercials that show a car marginally in control, sliding across the screen with the small print "DO NOT ATTEMPT - Professional driver on a closed course."

Here's the message - "We want you buy this car and drive it on streets and highways with a thousand yahoos who are putting on makeup/eating breakfast, lunch or dinner/talking or texting on phones/reading the paper/or otherwise not actually involved in driving but you should know that a pro can barely control it under the best of conditions."

bobbys
07-31-2014, 05:17 PM
I have a pet peeve, his name is Spot. OK old joke, but I was wondering if you guys would care to share your pet peeves.

My understanding of a peeve is something very minor which irritates or annoys you. Not the major issues, such as politics, religion, gun regulation, climate change etc. but those things which are so insignificant that it is almost embarrassing to admit that they bother you.

My pet peeve for today is the misuse of the two words bought and brought. I hear it all the time, even in TV and radio broadcasts. A classic example is a recent visitor to my house who said "I hope you don't mind but I bought my dog with me". I also hear it the other way around, brought for bought.."I just brought a camera off ebay". What's going on? When I was a kid we had a teacher who had us repeat "Buy - Bought, Bring - Brought" over and over. I guess nobody does that anymore.

OK, I'll go away and get a life now Y:o
.

You are never going to make in New Jersey or New York going around correcting people with the kings English.:d

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 05:20 PM
Mine is "Prolly" I've ranted about it before. Then there's: Peak,pique and peek.

I just hate people who mix cynosure and sinecure (though I'm the only person I know to have done that).

a bit odd coming from a Welshman :)

JimD
07-31-2014, 05:22 PM
Rate of speed.

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 05:25 PM
Rate of speed.

the rate of speed refers to the cost of the speeding ticket

AnalogKid
07-31-2014, 05:31 PM
Them what don't pick up their wet towels off the bathroom floor, and then use another one, and another one………….
(mumble……mumble…….)

and don't even ask about tooth paste!

I didn't think my boy had ever been to Victoria.

Mine is people who drive really slowly towards a green light and then speed up just as it goes amber to leave a tail of irate drivers (usually including me) waiting at the line. In fact, anyone who gets in a car and makes something other than driving it their primary focus.

isla
07-31-2014, 05:32 PM
the proper way to say it is "I brung my dog with me"Then there are those cringingly obsequious posh English people who would say "I'm awfully sorry old chap, but I appear to have brought my dog with me". Then there are people who use big words to show off Y:o

Todd D
07-31-2014, 05:35 PM
My pet peeve is when people match the verb to the object of a preposition rather than to the actual subject of the sentence. An extreme example would be,

The color of the books are red.

I hear this sort of error all the time and it really irritates me.

isla
07-31-2014, 05:43 PM
OK I'm sure you're all too civilised to have seen this one. When we walk our dogs in the town, and they poop on the pavement, we pick up the poop in a plastic bag, which is then supposed to go in a poop bin. But I regularly see these little plastic bags hanging in bushes. Do they think the poop fairy comes in the night and takes them away?

wizbang 13
07-31-2014, 05:48 PM
PIN number
ATM machine
hot water heater
redundancies , these are the things get my goat

CWSmith
07-31-2014, 05:51 PM
People talking on cell phones while driving - I expect them to do something stupid or sloppy and they rarely disappoint.

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 05:54 PM
People talking on cell phones while driving - I expect them to do something stupid or sloppy and they rarely disappoint.

how about listening to the radio while driving?

what about cops talking on the radio while driving?

CWSmith
07-31-2014, 06:05 PM
how about listening to the radio while driving?

Never been a problem. In fact, it keeps me alert and relaxed.

It's a matter of concentration. If you think the radio is talking exclusively to you and you talk back, then it's a problem.


what about cops talking on the radio while driving?

For 30 seconds or 30 minutes?

ccmanuals
07-31-2014, 06:46 PM
People that put their dogs in the back of the pickup truck.

S/V Laura Ellen
07-31-2014, 06:52 PM
My pet peeve is people that use then and than incorrectly.
I read the statement and than wonder if the person knows that they are thicker then a brick.

purri
07-31-2014, 06:53 PM
going forward.
closure.

S/V Laura Ellen
07-31-2014, 06:54 PM
People that put their dogs in the back of the pickup truck. Some people don't realize that you are supposed to put them in a cage on the roof rack.

S/V Laura Ellen
07-31-2014, 07:02 PM
i hate being late, i hate it even more when i'm late because of someone else. . .

I'm sure I would hate being late. I would hate the title "the late Mr. Aylard", although if I'm late I'm not around to notice.
Someone else causing me to be late would be a criminal offence. I would hope they get the maximum sentence allowed by law.

bahma
07-31-2014, 07:13 PM
'At this point in time', a phrase I first heard during a speach by J.F.K,......it appears that, nowadays, no one can simply say ......'at this time'......

Really gets my goat.

AnalogKid
07-31-2014, 07:18 PM
...or 'now' is even shorter.

Eventuate - that's a new word that doesn't need to exist. Happen - it's suited us perfectly well all this time and it or a derivative would work wherever the loathsome 'eventuate' pops up.

S/V Laura Ellen
07-31-2014, 07:38 PM
'At this point in time', a phrase I first heard during a speach by J.F.K,......it appears that, nowadays, no one can simply say ......'at this time'...... Really gets my goat.

At this point in time references some point in time just mentioned. At this time usually (often) references the current time (when the statement was made).

Vince Brennan
07-31-2014, 07:46 PM
Site and Sight. MiGod.

Your and You're. Great Ghu!

Vince Brennan
07-31-2014, 07:48 PM
At this point in time references some point in time just mentioned. At this time usually (often) references the current time (when the statement was made).

Not to be picky, but referring to a specific point of time should be, "At that point...", n'cest pas?

bobbys
07-31-2014, 07:58 PM
My pet peeve is when I am late everyone seems to know this and drives way under the speed limit just that day.

I'm not sure how this info gets around but it do..

in fact when I am real late Canadians descend with big Winnebagos and decide to go slow that day also.

I ponder why they all drive at peak traffic times when they have nothing else to do anyway.

is this some sick Canadian revenge thing..?

I never done nutting to them..

will the C anadians revel the truth about this.

well the ones here are notorious liars:d so who knows..?

S/V Laura Ellen
07-31-2014, 08:00 PM
Not to be picky, but referring to a specific point of time should be, "At that point...", n'cest pas?

You might be picky and you might be right.

CWSmith
07-31-2014, 08:00 PM
I just thought of about 5 more things...

S/V Laura Ellen
07-31-2014, 08:03 PM
...is this some sick Canadian revenge thing..? I never done nutting to them.. .

Yes it is.
Just being yourself is enough.

bobbys
07-31-2014, 08:21 PM
Yes it is.
Just being yourself is enough.
.

well you have to admit I'm never a grammar nazi here .

Waddie
07-31-2014, 08:27 PM
I hate those people who race down to the front of the line when a lane is closed due to repairs and try to bully their way in. My old truck is paid for and I'm retired, so I dare 'em to crowd over; I'd gladly exchange some paint to teach them a lesson.

regards,
Waddie

Waddie
07-31-2014, 08:55 PM
That was you?

Do you have yellow paint all over the side of your van from my paintball gun? Then, yeah, it was me.... :)

regards,
Waddie

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 09:04 PM
You might be picky and you might be right.

Vince will NEVER be right until AFTER he has been mugged

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 09:05 PM
Okay, okay... one of mine is people (Dan rather comes to mind but there are others) who pronounce economics as if it were spelled eekonomics

David G
07-31-2014, 09:11 PM
i hate being late, i hate it even more when i'm late because of someone else. . .

Who shall, if you have the good sense God gave a deer dropping, remain nameless.

I have the exact same problem. The other half is perpetually late, and has no concerns about it. I leave enough room in the schedule for unforeseen details. There's no changing her... or me. But I have refused to leave at all when it's clear we're going to walk into a concert, play, etc. late. It beats going anyway, driving fast, feeling stressed, and being pizzed off. Way simpler. But it's not really much of a peeve anymore now that I have a strategy I'm comfortable with.

hokiefan
07-31-2014, 09:43 PM
Okay, okay... one of mine is people (Dan rather comes to mind but there are others) who pronounce economics as if it were spelled eekonomics

You mean people who pronounce it correctly???

According to Merriam-Webster it can be correctly pronounced either way.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/economics

Cheers,

Bobby

purri
07-31-2014, 10:14 PM
from the Greek economou= household

Jim Mahan
07-31-2014, 11:08 PM
People who will take the time to post a for-sale ad on craigslist, and not bother to dump their pos bucket of pos rusty old tools on the pos driveway so you could at least see what pos tools there are for sale. Or post an ad for a table saw or some other bit of kit, with the promise that it runs fine, and in the picture, the machined top of the table and every bit of visibile iron is heavy with a layer of rust that must have started twenty years ago. Also those who post their store full of stuff on a hundred individual ads from the same place in a row. Or the yutzes who post an ad for a must see with lots of specials lookie symbols in the title, and the ad doesn't even have a photo. Or the only specifics are that the boat has great speakers and is awesome. Or those challenged few who want to sell their brick-a-brac on the tool list or tickets to the game on the tool list or collectible crap from last week on the antiques list.

Phillip Allen
07-31-2014, 11:29 PM
You mean people who pronounce it correctly???

According to Merriam-Webster it can be correctly pronounced either way.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/economics

Cheers,

Bobby

another is the yahoos who want to disallow my pet peeves

BrianY
07-31-2014, 11:49 PM
Oh there are SO MANY…..these are some of my pet peeves concerning language:

- the use of the word "Less" when "Fewer" is appropriate (e.g. when referring to multiple items)
- hackneyed, meaningless saying such as "it is what it is", "haters gotta hate", "I'm just sayin' "…. ESPECIALLY "I'm just sayin" ( Really? I thought you were also dancing and eating a pickle while you said what you said.)
- the transformation of nouns into verbs in business/marketing speak such as "to office"
- the use of the word "leverage" in non-financial contexts
- people who don't pronounce the word "nuclear" properly
- people who go through an entire conversation using standard American english pronunciations for every word until they come to a foreign word such as a country or place name and they suddenly lapse into the native pronunciation (or at least what they THINK is the native pronunciation) of that name full of rolling R's and swallowed or barely aspirated consonants. For example, someone might say "My family and I have just come back from a wonderful vacation in NEEEGARAgHUA and COSTA REECUH by way of elsalvaDORE" instead of the normal Americanized "Nik-a-ragwa", "Coasta Reeka" and "el SALvadoor" . David Sedaris does a wonderful bit on this

hokiefan
07-31-2014, 11:50 PM
another is the yahoos who want to disallow my pet peeves

Well, I wouldn't have bothered to look it up unless I was one of those yahoos that pronounced it eek... :d

Cheers,

Bobby

Phillip Allen
08-01-2014, 01:13 AM
Well, I wouldn't have bothered to look it up unless I was one of those yahoos that pronounced it eek... :d

Cheers,

Bobby

it wasn't hard to figure out :)

dictionaries are basically a vote by the people they poll... many of our words have 'evolved' to be pronounced differently/wrongly then the mispronunciation gets the popular vote by the ones who mispronounce it... Simple, really. No doubt I am guilty too somewhere in all that.

The peeve is a literal response by me to the original question

Canoeyawl
08-01-2014, 01:16 AM
If I see the word "beautiful" in a Craigslist ad, I stop right there. Because you just know it will be hideous.

Phillip Allen
08-01-2014, 02:38 AM
...like the use of "yourself" and "ourselves" - had a "courtesy" call from BT the other day where the caller used a combination of both no no less than 5 times (none in the right context) before I hung up.

also:


"...just sayin'..."
About 80% of TV adverts - especially those with pseudo science ingredients for cosmetics - "contains Elastostretcherine for smoother skin and reviving a cadaver".
Starting a sentence with "So"
The use of "like" every other word.
Lack of simple courtesy from motorists - especially on narrow country lanes
All Apple products
Abrasive respondents to forums who seem to exact delight in being confrontational, delivering sardonic one liners, or just downright bloody rude because they can hide behind the anonymity of a keyboard and several thousand miles or a remote island
Getting sucked into to respond to a certain type of thread on a forum.......
Passing 50, so now everything seems a pet peeve


Grumpy :)

Captain Intrepid
08-01-2014, 03:19 AM
I've got a few, but these are near the top.

People who willfully and recklessly ignore the mechanics of the English language. People who pedantically point out people who willfully and recklessly ignore the mechanics of the English language.

I do a lot of self loathing.

isla
08-01-2014, 03:41 AM
The use of "like" every other word.
Getting sucked into to respond to a certain type of thread on a forum.......


The use of "like" is a good one. As a scouser, and a long time resident of Scotland I have lived with "I was in the pub, ya know what I mean like?" and "I was in the pub, ken?".

As for getting sucked in...GOTCHA! :d

Duncan Gibbs
08-01-2014, 03:53 AM
OK I'm sure you're all too civilised to have seen this one. When we walk our dogs in the town, and they poop on the pavement, we pick up the poop in a plastic bag, which is then supposed to go in a poop bin. But I regularly see these little plastic bags hanging in bushes. Do they think the poop fairy comes in the night and takes them away?
Christmas in Glasgow? (Putting on flame suit and running away fast!) :D

I despise drivers that will go at near negative speeds in single lanes causing the development of a conga line of vehicles behind them for over a kilometre, and then speed up to eleventy million kilometres an hour as soon as there is an overtaking lane.

These people are oxygen thieves, pure and simple, and deserve all the pains of hell thrown at them... And then some!

Peerie Maa
08-01-2014, 04:44 AM
About 80% of TV adverts - especially those with pseudo science ingredients for cosmetics - "contains Elastostretcherine for smoother skin and reviving a cadaver".
[/LIST]
I could not agree more. Do marketing men think that their target demographic is dumb and gullible? No don't answer that. Running away and hiding. :D

skuthorp
08-01-2014, 04:50 AM
them what don't pick up their wet towels off the bathroom floor, and then use another one, and another one………….
(mumble……mumble…….)
grrr…………………………..

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-01-2014, 04:57 AM
On a daily basis.

Or indeed any other freakin basis.

changeng
08-01-2014, 04:57 AM
Bad manners. I was at the store yesterday. A couple of obviously well heeled kids and their mom were shopping. The kids were having a maccaroni throwing fight. I said "some old lady could slip on that, pick it up". The Mom said "well my kids didn't break the pack" gathered the brood and walked off.

I picked it up muttering something about entitlement.:cool:

Syed
08-01-2014, 05:09 AM
(than - then)
(too - to) To weak to walk|:)

MiddleAgesMan
08-01-2014, 06:47 AM
I hate those people who race down to the front of the line when a lane is closed due to repairs and try to bully their way in. My old truck is paid for and I'm retired, so I dare 'em to crowd over; I'd gladly exchange some paint to teach them a lesson.

regards,
Waddie

You'll be seeing a lot more of this behavior in future. Traffic studies have proved early merging--leaving one or more lanes virtually empty--while appearing polite actually impedes traffic.

If you don't believe me Google "zipper merge."

isla
08-01-2014, 08:29 AM
Zombies in supermarkets. They stand staring at the shelves, with their trolley blocking the aisle. I stand patiently and wait for them to move, eventually I say "excuse me please", and start to push my trolley through, and they glare at me like I had insulted them. Or they walk really slowly, a sort of supermarket shuffle, 30 year old housewives shuffling like they were 90. Meanwhile the kids are pulling things off the shelves and not putting them back, and mom says "don't do that, how often do I have to tell you?" then turns away, leaving the kids to carry on doing the same thing. Then there's grumpy old men...oh right, that's me Y:o

Jim Mahan
08-01-2014, 08:38 AM
People who seem to think that the mere fact of their having a peeve entitles them to any sort extra consideration or respect. As if no one else feels a burden or the pain of living to an advanced codgerliness in a cold, cold world.

People who are otherwise upstanding and hygenic, who don't have either a proper sponge for the kitchen sink, and all those wiping rinsing chores, or a hand towel, not a dish towel, for drying your clean hands, not wiping your sticky hands.

Don't double park or stop in the middle of a street to have a chat and then become irate when your rudeness is pointed out when someone else wants to go by.

People who willfully, happily, violate the proper sequence of right-of-way of drivers arriving at a multiple stop sign intersection. The ones that wait an extra beat or two and instead of just taking their turn, wave you through as if they are waiting for you when it is actually their turn and now everyone has to wait while num-nuts gets whatever satisfaction he gets from pleasing Jesus with his generosity in driving extra slow to make sure he's doing it right so he won't burn in hell... Or stop in the middle of the block to wave another driver into a left turn at a driveway. Morons who've put their cruise control on, exactly a half a mile an hour faster than the semi in the next lane, and take twenty minutes to get by enough to let another driver past.

People who are just too bored with everything to respond with anything more than 'whatever.'

People who compete in traffic as if there were a prize for being first at the next light or the next off-ramp.

People who haven't yet realized that being appropriately sardonic or sarcastic isn't the same as being perpetually negative, cynical and caustic. People who agree with Ann Coulter.

If you're going to use some version of a sociable 'how do you do?" then be polite enough to pause for a person to at least reply in kind.

People who still don't get that they, and everyone, should always dispose of their trash properly, no matter where they are or what kind of trash. Just don't leave your sh!t where anyone else wants to walk, sit, eat, boat, drive, camp, fish...

Surely people who are rotund to the point of blocking an entire aisle by standing in the middle of it, are also aware of that, and might choose to not mosey and then stop in the doorway to look around before crossing the threshold to begin to find the landyacht they parked in the clearly marked fire lane. Or that guy who has been at the front of the line in the passing lane for twenty minutes, and you can just hear him say, "Marge, there's hardly any traffic today."

Phillip Allen
08-01-2014, 03:12 PM
People who seem to think that the mere fact of their having a peeve entitles them to any sort extra consideration or respect. As if no one else feels a burden or the pain of living to an advanced codgerliness in a cold, cold world.

People who are otherwise upstanding and hygenic, who don't have either a proper sponge for the kitchen sink, and all those wiping rinsing chores, or a hand towel, not a dish towel, for drying your clean hands, not wiping your sticky hands.

Don't double park or stop in the middle of a street to have a chat and then become irate when your rudeness is pointed out when someone else wants to go by.

People who willfully, happily, violate the proper sequence of right-of-way of drivers arriving at a multiple stop sign intersection. The ones that wait an extra beat or two and instead of just taking their turn, wave you through as if they are waiting for you when it is actually their turn and now everyone has to wait while num-nuts gets whatever satisfaction he gets from pleasing Jesus with his generosity in driving extra slow to make sure he's doing it right so he won't burn in hell... Or stop in the middle of the block to wave another driver into a left turn at a driveway. Morons who've put their cruise control on, exactly a half a mile an hour faster than the semi in the next lane, and take twenty minutes to get by enough to let another driver past.

People who are just too bored with everything to respond with anything more than 'whatever.'

People who compete in traffic as if there were a prize for being first at the next light or the next off-ramp.

People who haven't yet realized that being appropriately sardonic or sarcastic isn't the same as being perpetually negative, cynical and caustic. People who agree with Ann Coulter.

If you're going to use some version of a sociable 'how do you do?" then be polite enough to pause for a person to at least reply in kind.

People who still don't get that they, and everyone, should always dispose of their trash properly, no matter where they are or what kind of trash. Just don't leave your sh!t where anyone else wants to walk, sit, eat, boat, drive, camp, fish...

Surely people who are rotund to the point of blocking an entire aisle by standing in the middle of it, are also aware of that, and might choose to not mosey and then stop in the doorway to look around before crossing the threshold to begin to find the landyacht they parked in the clearly marked fire lane. Or that guy who has been at the front of the line in the passing lane for twenty minutes, and you can just hear him say, "Marge, there's hardly any traffic today."

May you remain as calm as this perpetually :)

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
08-01-2014, 03:18 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/DougReid/Thurber.jpg~original (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/DougReid/media/Thurber.jpg.html)

switters
08-01-2014, 03:21 PM
bicycle salmon, when they are in the bike lane coming toward you (they are going the wrong way) and then they dodge to their left. Which could potentially force me to dodge to my left out in traffic which I cant see behind me. Like last night. When I shouted that if we hit I'm leading with my helmet as I came straight at him.

S/V Laura Ellen
08-01-2014, 03:26 PM
Just got back from running a few errands.
There were five lights on my route.
4 of the 5 lights turned yellow just as I was approaching the light.
The fifth light was red when I got there.

Phillip Allen
08-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Just got back from running a few errands.
There were five lights on my route.
4 of the 5 lights turned yellow just as I was approaching the light.
The fifth light was red when I got there.

more fuel = more revenue (taxes)

Bubba L.
08-01-2014, 03:34 PM
I hate those people who race down to the front of the line when a lane is closed due to repairs and try to bully their way in. My old truck is paid for and I'm retired, so I dare 'em to crowd over; I'd gladly exchange some paint to teach them a lesson.

regards,
Waddie


I ride a ten year old Road King with some hard miles on it. When people try that with me I look them in the eye and dare them. I think my beat up old helmet with a smiley face sporting a bullet hole in it's forehead intimidates them.

Gene

Canoeyawl
08-01-2014, 03:37 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d165/DougReid/Thurber.jpg~original (http://s35.photobucket.com/user/DougReid/media/Thurber.jpg.html)

whelming

Dave Gray
08-01-2014, 03:38 PM
My pet peeve is that my dog is scared of: fireworks, thunder, lightning flashes, strong wind noise, things that go bump.

Peerie Maa
08-02-2014, 12:47 PM
Cyclists riding on the flat in too low a gear. Travelling at walking pace with their feet going round at 19 to the dozen.

Dave Gray
08-02-2014, 01:18 PM
Cyclists riding on the flat in too low a gear. Travelling at walking pace with their feet going round at 19 to the dozen.
Isn't that "spinning"? or is that a fad that spun out?