Proud of my Gov

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  • Ian McColgin
    Senior Member
    • Apr 1999
    • 51639

    Proud of my Gov

    Governor Gets Personal While Explaining Plan To Help Undocumented Children
    The Huffington Post | By Natasha Bach
    Posted: 07/18/2014 6:40 pm EDT Updated: 07/18/2014 6:59 pm EDT

    Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (D) detailed Friday his plan to temporarily provide shelter to undocumented children who have illegally entered the United States.

    Patrick is working to help the federal government identify a site in Massachusetts to temporarily shelter up to 1,000 children while they await deportation or are reconnected with family members within the U.S. Possible locations have ranged from military bases to unused shopping malls. Costs would be shouldered by the federal government, and the shelters would be under federal control.

    "The facility would be secure. It would have spaces for children to eat, sleep, play and go to school," Patrick explained during a press conference, saying the average expected stay would be 35 days for each child.

    Patrick appealed to listeners' humanity and drew on personal convictions, noting that "it bears remembering that these are children alone in a foreign land."

    He later got emotional, explaining how his faith informed his decision. "I believe that one day we will have to answer for our actions and our inactions. My faith teaches that 'if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him,' but rather 'love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt,'" Patrick said.
  • bobbys
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2009
    • 30711

    #2
    Re: Proud of my Gov

    Decisions on abortion should be made by women


    A man carrying a red Bible to the microphone asked, How could Patrick support gay marriage and abortion rights if God doesn’t? Patrick treaded carefully. He said he believes decisions on abortion should be made by women, and not by the government, and that the law should regard everyone as equals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Patrick added that people are far less concerned about gay marriage and abortion than about paying their rent and heating bills.
    Source: Scott Helman, Boston Globe, p. A1 , Jan 15, 2006

    Comment

    • hokiefan
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2002
      • 9221

      #3
      Re: Proud of my Gov

      Originally posted by bobbys
      Decisions on abortion should be made by women


      A man carrying a red Bible to the microphone asked, How could Patrick support gay marriage and abortion rights if God doesn’t? Patrick treaded carefully. He said he believes decisions on abortion should be made by women, and not by the government, and that the law should regard everyone as equals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Patrick added that people are far less concerned about gay marriage and abortion than about paying their rent and heating bills.
      Source: Scott Helman, Boston Globe, p. A1 , Jan 15, 2006
      Makes perfect sense to me.

      Bobby

      Comment

      • Bubba L.
        Dazed and confused
        • Jul 2014
        • 1961

        #4
        Re: Proud of my Gov

        Originally posted by Ian McColgin
        Governor Gets Personal While Explaining Plan To Help Undocumented Children
        The Huffington Post | By Natasha Bach
        Posted: 07/18/2014 6:40 pm EDT Updated: 07/18/2014 6:59 pm EDT

        Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (D) detailed Friday his plan to temporarily provide shelter to undocumented children who have illegally entered the United States.


        He later got emotional, explaining how his faith informed his decision. "I believe that one day we will have to answer for our actions and our inactions. My faith teaches that 'if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him,' but rather 'love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt,'" Patrick said.
        I think he's doing a very good thing here, but I wonder about the faith thing. Is he saying that the reason for doing good is so that you will be judged worthy by your god? Many people say that they do good things because God, or the bible tell them to. I have a hard time wrapping my head around things like this. I try to do good things because I have learned that my actions can have a direct impact on the people of the world. If the impact is negative I live in a negative and unpleasant world. If the impact is positive I live in a positive and pleasant world.

        There is clearly something inside of me that I call a conscience although my memory goes back far enough to remember when I didn't. I developed a conscience over time as I assimilated the lessons of my mother, older siblings and elders of the community. The few attempts by religious teachers left me kind of neutral to confused because reading the bible with all of its tales of the horrible things done by God contradicted with the image of a loving God described by these teachers.

        So my point here, is that while I applaud the good done in the name of God, I wonder if we really need a boogeyman to frighten us into behaving?

        I'd like to add that I know a lot of really good Christians who through their actions have shown that their desire to do good is not motivated by their need, desire, to please God. On the flip side I know an equally large number who only do good to avoid punishment by God.

        And again, my hat is off to Deval Patrick for helping these kids.

        Gene
        “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” Isaac Asimov.

        Comment

        • John Smith
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2009
          • 48681

          #5
          Re: Proud of my Gov

          Originally posted by bobbys
          Decisions on abortion should be made by women


          A man carrying a red Bible to the microphone asked, How could Patrick support gay marriage and abortion rights if God doesn’t? Patrick treaded carefully. He said he believes decisions on abortion should be made by women, and not by the government, and that the law should regard everyone as equals, regardless of their sexual orientation. Patrick added that people are far less concerned about gay marriage and abortion than about paying their rent and heating bills.
          Source: Scott Helman, Boston Globe, p. A1 , Jan 15, 2006
          I haven't heard God voice an opinion. I have heard a lot of those who believe in God tell me he GIVES US FREE WILL. Which is it?

          Does God want unmarried women to have children?
          "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

          Comment

          • John Smith
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2009
            • 48681

            #6
            Re: Proud of my Gov

            Originally posted by Bubba L.
            I think he's doing a very good thing here, but I wonder about the faith thing. Is he saying that the reason for doing good is so that you will be judged worthy by your god? Many people say that they do good things because God, or the bible tell them to. I have a hard time wrapping my head around things like this. I try to do good things because I have learned that my actions can have a direct impact on the people of the world. If the impact is negative I live in a negative and unpleasant world. If the impact is positive I live in a positive and pleasant world.

            There is clearly something inside of me that I call a conscience although my memory goes back far enough to remember when I didn't. I developed a conscience over time as I assimilated the lessons of my mother, older siblings and elders of the community. The few attempts by religious teachers left me kind of neutral to confused because reading the bible with all of its tales of the horrible things done by God contradicted with the image of a loving God described by these teachers.

            So my point here, is that while I applaud the good done in the name of God, I wonder if we really need a boogeyman to frighten us into behaving?

            I'd like to add that I know a lot of really good Christians who through their actions have shown that their desire to do good is not motivated by their need, desire, to please God. On the flip side I know an equally large number who only do good to avoid punishment by God.

            And again, my hat is off to Deval Patrick for helping these kids.

            Gene
            Very nice post.
            "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

            Comment

            • Too Little Time
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2014
              • 12734

              #7
              Re: Proud of my Gov

              Originally posted by Ian McColgin
              Patrick appealed to listeners' humanity and drew on personal convictions, noting that "it bears remembering that these are children alone in a foreign land."
              The situation is difficult.

              Humanity is difficult.

              It is easy to bankrupt ourselves taking care of these kids. 50 thousand kids are not so many. 50 million are a lot.
              Life is complex.

              Comment

              • Ian McColgin
                Senior Member
                • Apr 1999
                • 51639

                #8
                Re: Proud of my Gov

                Right bobbys. So live with Deuteronomy-22-28-29 if you want. Freedom of conscience and all that. Except, in the USA it's a felony.

                Comment

                • Keith Wilson
                  Trying to be reasonable
                  • Oct 1999
                  • 64114

                  #9
                  Re: Proud of my Gov

                  A liberal using the bible when it suits him then discounting it when it does not.. Does that make sense?
                  Gee, where have we seen this before? There are only a couple of passages in the Christian bible that mention abortion at all, and only a couple that mention homosexuality. There are literally hundreds that emphasize in no uncertain terms our duty to take care of the poor, and strangers in need. So what does the 'Christian' right emphasize?

                  It's not at all surprising, and part of a very long tradition. The Christian Bible is collected from writings of different time periods and many different sources. It's not a single whole, despite fairly desperate attempts by believers to make it so. Depending on what parts one emphasizes, one can use it to justify very different behavior. Nothing new here.
                  "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
                  for nature cannot be fooled."

                  Richard Feynman

                  Comment

                  • Hwyl
                    Gareth
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 22222

                    #10
                    Re: Proud of my Gov

                    I don't care that he's using the bible or that bobbys thinks it willy nilly. II do care that the children are being looked after. I don't care for people who feel they should noot be looked after.

                    Comment

                    • Keith Wilson
                      Trying to be reasonable
                      • Oct 1999
                      • 64114

                      #11
                      Re: Proud of my Gov

                      Saul Alinsky has been dead for over 40 years. Nobody on the left pays any attention to him any more.
                      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
                      for nature cannot be fooled."

                      Richard Feynman

                      Comment

                      • Bubba L.
                        Dazed and confused
                        • Jul 2014
                        • 1961

                        #12
                        Re: Proud of my Gov

                        Originally posted by bobbys
                        .

                        HHHMMMMMM , let's think about this.

                        I'm not arguing good deeds but don't you liberals say all the time there is separation of church and state..

                        I f a Republican said this you libs would go ballistic.

                        His faith directs him with his belief WE will answer.

                        So going by that I ?will answer for abortion?.

                        No he is using the bible willy nilly and in fact it's a Alinsky tactic.

                        Have the other fellow live up to his own rules.
                        I have to assume Patrick is Ian's pastor thus he approves of a state Jewish religion...
                        The right is using religious freedom to justify imposing their views upon others, thereby taking away the religious freedom of those they disagree with. In this instance Patrick is explaining his motivation to help a defenseless group of children. He is not trying to use his views to force bigoted jerks to take in these children so the situations are entirely different.

                        Gene
                        “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” Isaac Asimov.

                        Comment

                        • S.V. Airlie
                          Ancient Mariner
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 63914

                          #13
                          Re: Proud of my Gov

                          Originally posted by Ian McColgin
                          Governor Gets Personal While Explaining Plan To Help Undocumented Children
                          The Huffington Post | By Natasha Bach
                          Posted: 07/18/2014 6:40 pm EDT Updated: 07/18/2014 6:59 pm EDT

                          Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick (D) detailed Friday his plan to temporarily provide shelter to undocumented children who have illegally entered the United States.

                          Patrick is working to help the federal government identify a site in Massachusetts to temporarily shelter up to 1,000 children while they await deportation or are reconnected with family members within the U.S. Possible locations have ranged from military bases to unused shopping malls. Costs would be shouldered by the federal government, and the shelters would be under federal control.

                          "The facility would be secure. It would have spaces for children to eat, sleep, play and go to school," Patrick explained during a press conference, saying the average expected stay would be 35 days for each child.

                          Patrick appealed to listeners' humanity and drew on personal convictions, noting that "it bears remembering that these are children alone in a foreign land."

                          He later got emotional, explaining how his faith informed his decision. "I believe that one day we will have to answer for our actions and our inactions. My faith teaches that 'if a stranger dwells with you in your land, you shall not mistreat him,' but rather 'love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt,'" Patrick said.
                          wonder whether classes will go through 12th grade? I suspect many of those kids will still be here!

                          Comment

                          • Ian McColgin
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 1999
                            • 51639

                            #14
                            Re: Proud of my Gov

                            Ah Keith, there are plenty of us who still find Alinsky relevant, still find that the notion of democratic self-empowerment is more powerful than any political party and proud of being hated by right and left, by fascists and communists.

                            In the context of political debate, "not tolerated" means objecting to hateful, racist, xenophobic, criminal and/or immoral positions and rejecting those who hold such opinions. Liberal Democrats have it a bit easier than honorable conservative Republicans because the leftie crazies, such as remain, won't have diddly to to with the Democratic party. And where Democrats celebrate and honor an illegal act, it's stuff like the 1971 burglary of the Media PA FBI office and the revelations of documents that exposed Hoover's lawless operations. Kathy Boudin and others like her who favored deadly bombs were denounced by the liberals they in turn scorned.

                            And that’s what we don’t see here - we don’t see the “responsible” conservatives denouncing the advocates of shooting illegal immigrants.

                            It’s not hard. They could even show a puckish Nixonian sense of humor by simply saying, “But that would wrong.”

                            Instead they remain steadfast in the certainty that being right means never being wrong.

                            Comment

                            • Jim Bow
                              Normcore
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 23984

                              #15
                              Re: Proud of my Gov

                              I wonder if those flag wearing stalwarts down at the SOCAL border had ever heard of the SS St Louis?
                              “Come, come, my conservative friend, wipe the dew off your spectacles and see the world is moving" - Elizabeth Cady Stanton

                              Comment

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