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View Full Version : What is a good non-skid additive for paint?



ron ll
07-10-2014, 11:40 PM
Just epoxied over glass over plywood and the result is pretty glossy. I have yet to paint it and want a non-skid that is kind to bare feet. What is a good paint additive for that?

Doug Schultz
07-10-2014, 11:50 PM
I have just used play sand before. It worked just fine. Mixed into the paint. then paint again with just paint until you get it to the right texture for bare feet. When its finally filled completely its not that hard to strip the whole works off and start over.

Richard of Woods Designs
07-10-2014, 11:54 PM
Rubber granules are better, so is cork, ground walnut shells. Most paint suppliers have something. We have bought granules from Sherwin Williams and Home Depot that have worked well.

If you get sand make sure it is fine grain and dry. In the past I have used sand sold in petshops for bird cage floors

Richard Woods

David G
07-10-2014, 11:56 PM
Sand is pretty aggressive, unless you lay a lot of paint over it. Interlux (also Pettit?) make an additive that is ground up rubber bits that I like. Mix it into the final coat of paint. Also - you can mask off certain areas to make attractive fields of grippy surface, while leaving small border areas around hardware, etc.

James McMullen
07-11-2014, 12:10 AM
I have been enjoying the Kiwi-Grip nonskid paint we have used on several projects so far, including my outboard skiff. It is the same color all the way through so that it doesn't show wear too much, can be easily modified as to how aggressive or not of a texture you want to leave, and not least of all, is a waterborne and refreshingly low-toxicity product. It's what I'll be using when I refinish Rowan at the end of this season.

wizbang 13
07-11-2014, 12:27 AM
I use the Interlux intergrip .
It has taken me decades of sand , shells , sugar ( biggest mistake.....bees),16 grit stuff, to actually pay money for what i always thought was just fine sand.
I mix it with the paint, about one third volume, lots of solvent ( with epoxy barrier coat or LP), and constant stirring .
bruce

slug
07-11-2014, 12:37 AM
Anything will work.

Sand is troublsome when it comes to refinish. You will be sanding the sand with sandpaper.


the non skid additives packaged by paint companies are the best. http://www.awlgrip.com/MPYACMDatasheets/4078+A+eng+A4.pdf

you need to decide how aggressive the non skid must be when choosing a particle . Only ice conditions need heavy non skid

i prefer a very light non skid .

When applying non skid with a roller dont use a foam roller...use a fine nap roller. The foam roller will leave "edges". ...ridges created by the foam corners of the foam roller

sdowney717
07-11-2014, 05:54 AM
I used the additive from Home Depot.
It is a container of a powder that you pour and mix into the paint.
It has worked very well. It is not sand, it is not hard on your feet.
It was just perfect and easy to use.

willin woodworks
07-11-2014, 06:34 AM
I used the Petit non skid with Petit Easypoxy and was very happy with the results. Barefoot friendly but a good grip with boat shoes when its wet and the deck is heaving around.

Brian Palmer
07-11-2014, 07:24 AM
I've used the Sharkskin polymer bead product from the Sherwin-Williams paint store. You can sand it when you need to refinish. I've tried both sprinkling it onto wet paint and adding it to the paint. Both worked well.

Brian

Figment
07-11-2014, 07:42 AM
I've messed with a handful of nonskid methods over the years. Now I just open a can of InterDeck and roll it on. The only downside is the long-ish cure time.

ron ll
07-11-2014, 07:50 AM
I use the Interlux intergrip .
It has taken me decades of sand , shells , sugar ( biggest mistake.....bees),16 grit stuff, to actually pay money for what i always thought was just fine sand.
I mix it with the paint, about one third volume, lots of solvent ( with epoxy barrier coat or LP), and constant stirring .
bruce

Barrier coat? Do I need another coat of something between the epoxy and the deck enamel?

Thorne
07-11-2014, 08:31 AM
Epoxy IS the barrier coat between pretty much anything and the wood. As above, most sand is too rough on bare feet or any other skin.

outofthenorm
07-11-2014, 08:59 AM
I've always used ground walnut shells. Good grip, easy on bare skin. Lasts a long time and sands very well when it's time to renew the paint. You won't need more than a few ounces.

- Norm

DavidC
07-11-2014, 09:31 AM
I use a product called "Soft Sand." I think I bought it at Home Depot. It's finely ground up rubber, and it works great.

wizbang 13
07-11-2014, 09:59 AM
By " barrier coat" , I just mean epoxyprimer.
Most of the decks of my ocean goin boat are just white epoxy primer ( interlux 404/414) with the intergrip.
It is not glossy and turns a wee git off white, but contrary to popular opinion does not get chalky.
As opposed to using a shiny paint , (lp), which is prettier, but any dirt shows up and is more slippery.
I use the lp on the cabin top , fer instance, epoxy white on the decks.
Not suggesting you need a " system",
I would think for Snoozez lower decks, i would not go beyond epoxy barrier coat with the nonskid in the last coat.but I def like to use a two part coating on deck, not regular enamal.

bruce

ron ll
07-11-2014, 10:29 AM
By " barrier coat" , I just mean epoxyprimer.
Most of the decks of my ocean goin boat are just white epoxy primer ( interlux 404/414) with the intergrip.
It is not glossy and turns a wee git off white, but contrary to popular opinion does not get chalky.
As opposed to using a shiny paint , (lp), which is prettier, but any dirt shows up and is more slippery.
I use the lp on the cabin top , fer instance, epoxy white on the decks.
Not suggesting you need a " system",
I would think for Snoozez lower decks, i would not go beyond epoxy barrier coat with the nonskid in the last coat.but I def like to use a two part coating on deck, not regular enamal.

bruce

Thanks, good info. But I think I am kind of locked in to a specific color so I think I'll go with an additive to my regular enamel. It's a fairly easy area to repaint, so if it wears, no big deal. I assume if I scratch the final coat of epoxy the enamel will stick okay?

Canoeyawl
07-11-2014, 10:44 AM
I have used cheap polyester bridal veil laid on and imbedded in the first paint coat ( the more open the better, I like the octagonal weave) With careful trimming around deck structures, toe rails etc keeping it about an inch away, it works very well (You can hold it down in the field with masking tape and trim the edges with scissors)
My favorite so far.

edit; It is available in very wide bolts, wide enough to do an 8 foot beam with no seams.

jpatrick
07-11-2014, 10:53 AM
If one wants to use sand... a good source for very consistent gradation is the grit sold for sand blasting. It is available in numerous sizes. Probably not available in your local Big Box.

chas
07-11-2014, 12:43 PM
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2917/14090606053_d7ee28e0da_z.jpg

I found it easiest to use interlux non-skid over the finished paint. Whether it's easiest to maintain an acceptable finish is debatable, but it is nice on the bare feet. Very similiar to the Re-deck I would use on my waveboards years ago. / Jim

Bob Cleek
07-11-2014, 12:53 PM
We've been through this before. Mask off the areas you want to be "non-skid." You can do a whole deck, or break it up into sections, or whatever you want. Use the "line green" 3M "lacquer proof" masking tape.

Lay down a thin layer of epoxy adhesive. (Use slow cure hardener to provide enough working time.) No additives, just epoxy. Pour about a half inch to an inch of sand over the wet epoxy. Use whatever grit sand suits your taste, remembering that it will be "softened" by later paintings. Don't mess with it. Let the epoxy cure. When the epoxy is cured, vacuum up the loose sand with a shop vac. Brush the remaining sand with a stiff brush to remove grains which aren't well adhered and vacuum that up. (The weight of the half inch or inch of loose sand, without messing with it, will have uniformly pressed the lowest layer of sand grains into the wet epoxy.)

Then paint the sand-stuck-in-epoxy surface with a fairly thin enamel, or even water based, paint. (It's good if the paint will chalk over time. That avoids excess paint buildup which will tend to flatten the non-skid effect.) (Remember that the rough surface will take more paint than a smooth surface.)

The advantage of this method is that 1) you can pick the surface grit you want, 2) it is very attractive in that the surface is uniform in texture 3) It is very durable. Unlike grit in paint, you won't have pieces of grit working off continually. 4) it is relatively easy 5) It is completely compatible with epoxied surfaces 5) It's cheap.

slug
07-11-2014, 01:22 PM
We've been through this before. Mask off the areas you want to be "non-skid." You can do a whole deck, or break it up into sections, or whatever you want. Use the "line green" 3M "lacquer proof" masking tape.

Lay down a thin layer of epoxy adhesive. (Use slow cure hardener to provide enough working time.) No additives, just epoxy. Pour about a half inch to an inch of sand over the wet epoxy. Use whatever grit sand suits your taste, remembering that it will be "softened" by later paintings. Don't mess with it. Let the epoxy cure. When the epoxy is cured, vacuum up the loose sand with a shop vac. Brush the remaining sand with a stiff brush to remove grains which aren't well adhered and vacuum that up. (The weight of the half inch or inch of loose sand, without messing with it, will have uniformly pressed the lowest layer of sand grains into the wet epoxy.)

Then paint the sand-stuck-in-epoxy surface with a fairly thin enamel, or even water based, paint. (It's good if the paint will chalk over time. That avoids excess paint buildup which will tend to flatten the non-skid effect.) (Remember that the rough surface will take more paint than a smooth surface.)

The advantage of this method is that 1) you can pick the surface grit you want, 2) it is very attractive in that the surface is uniform in texture 3) It is very durable. Unlike grit in paint, you won't have pieces of grit working off continually. 4) it is relatively easy 5) It is completely compatible with epoxied surfaces 5) It's cheap.

Good grief...you will be producing a crude , way to dense non skid. Good for a kids skate boards or tug boats, by way overkill for a small craft.


Non skid does not need to be dense...100 percent coverage. A low density non skid produces a very good non skid surface.




by low density I mean about the same density of surface imperfections, dust , sand and dirt , that wBF member and pro boat restorer Pcford gets into his topcoat before he polishes the hell out of it his grinder .


read the technical document from International or alwgrip and use the recommended density, applied as described.




The professional non skid additives are superior because they stay suspended in the paint longer after mixing

Ian McColgin
07-11-2014, 01:26 PM
Non-skid so rough it voids the warranty on your oilies.

slug
07-11-2014, 01:41 PM
From a pro superyacht painter in the Netherlands..application tricks


"there is a skill to applying the non skid with roller. It can be done. It is common on superyacht here in Holland where it isn't sprayed.


You make a mix standard for brushing. Chuck in your Griptex additive. personally I prefer mixing the coarser or super coarse with the fine. Add to your desired level. personally I prefer more than awlgrip state as I feel it works better this way.


You need 2 people for larger areas. One man rolls on the paint mixed with grit. Roll it out thinner than you would for gloss without grit. Do NOT use a foam roller, you will get tracks/lines. Use a mohair roller than you would use for antifouling. Yep, you heard right. Once the 1st person has rolled out a thin layer (as quick as possible) the 2nd person uses a dry mohair roller and then goes over the surface. You may want-have to play with letting it tack off depending on how warm, windy, thick the paint is. Replace the dry roller once it gets saturated.


Repeat 2nd layer next day, with out sanding if required. You will need accelerator for 1st coat. Applying paint minus grit on top is up to you. Personally wouldn't do it. 2 coats normally looks better than 1 and if the grit starts wearing away you have layer underneath. "

Paul G.
07-11-2014, 03:30 PM
From a pro superyacht painter in the Netherlands..application tricks


"there is a skill to applying the non skid with roller. It can be done. It is common on superyacht here in Holland where it isn't sprayed.


You make a mix standard for brushing. Chuck in your Griptex additive. personally I prefer mixing the coarser or super coarse with the fine. Add to your desired level. personally I prefer more than awlgrip state as I feel it works better this way.


You need 2 people for larger areas. One man rolls on the paint mixed with grit. Roll it out thinner than you would for gloss without grit. Do NOT use a foam roller, you will get tracks/lines. Use a mohair roller than you would use for antifouling. Yep, you heard right. Once the 1st person has rolled out a thin layer (as quick as possible) the 2nd person uses a dry mohair roller and then goes over the surface. You may want-have to play with letting it tack off depending on how warm, windy, thick the paint is. Replace the dry roller once it gets saturated.


Repeat 2nd layer next day, with out sanding if required. You will need accelerator for 1st coat. Applying paint minus grit on top is up to you. Personally wouldn't do it. 2 coats normally looks better than 1 and if the grit starts wearing away you have layer underneath. "

Sounds about right, the international/awlgrip stuff is a grit that tends to absorb a bit of paint and float in suspension and it is the best non skid for a reason, the very best way to apply it is by spray in LPU paint. Next step down is the roller method and with a bit of skill it looks perfectly fine.

Sand is for fishing boats, kiwigrip weighs a ton and it needs to be redone as often as or more so than the LPU solution, swimming pool non slip path and paving paint is cheaper. We used to use granulated cork in epoxy, great for a while ( if you love bleeding knees and feet) but as the years and paint layers go on it becomes an ugly slippery situation. Single pack non skid paint from international is also a great product. For a small boat, that is what I would use- easy peasy, buy a can stir and apply!

slug
07-11-2014, 03:52 PM
Spray is perfection but not possible for most non skid jobs

A trick when rolling is to first " wet out" , preload, the roller with straight paint before you start rolling the deck...then wet out with paint loaded with grit and do the deck. If the roller is dry when you start, it sucks paint into the roller core and gives the wrong density deposit of non skid.

Once the loaded paint is on the deck, roll again with a dry roller. The second roller will even out the non skid to a uniform density.



two thin coats. Apply the second coat in the green overcoat window...normally the next day.

The end result will be uniform texture

rgthom
07-11-2014, 05:20 PM
Duckworks sells a non-skid powder: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/supplies/additives/non-skid/index.htm

It's polypropylene powder. I used it mixed in with System III topcoat, very happy with the ease of use and the result. Grips well barefoot or shoes. One area that I decided to sand off came off no problem.

RodB
07-11-2014, 06:03 PM
I have been enjoying the Kiwi-Grip nonskid paint we have used on several projects so far, including my outboard skiff. It is the same color all the way through so that it doesn't show wear too much, can be easily modified as to how aggressive or not of a texture you want to leave, and not least of all, is a waterborne and refreshingly low-toxicity product. It's what I'll be using when I refinish Rowan at the end of this season.

I would not consider a nonskid mixed in a paint compared the the easy to apply, easy to freshen up, tough , nice looking, and versatile non skid provided by Kiwi-grip. When you consider addressing the maintenance in the future it is simply hard to beat Kiwigrip. Kiwigrip goes on any clean sanded surface with the typical taping a pattern... it is brushed on thickly and then rolled with a roller pad that is made of "scotch bright" material and offers lots of versatility in just how aggressive you want the non-skid to be. Clean up is with water.

Once the kiwigrip is applied it is tough, looks good, is very effective and lasts a long time. When you want to freshen it up because it looks a little dirty etc after say 2-3 years... simply scrub it clean with some soap and water... rinse well, let dry... then tape of the pattern again 1/8 inch larger than the original was... then cut the Kiwigrip I think 50:50 with water and apply it to the entire area with a standard 3/8" soft roller pad. The entire area will look good as new and last another few years.

If you have some definitely wear and tear and want to completely redo an area to just increase the amount of non-skid for pure functionality... you can sand the old stuff after washing (not too hard and don't get it too hot) then wash clean again and tape pattern and re apply like new.

I have tried several methods of non-skid and the removal of the old non-skid is the main issue to consider plus reapplication. Kiwigrip is aces on both counts.

RodB

ron ll
07-11-2014, 06:13 PM
Thanks, there are some great ideas here, most way overkill for my boat. Snoose is a converted fishing boat and it's style is more of a workboat look. That's not an excuse for doing shoddy work, but yacht style is sometimes inappropriate on her. This particular deck is in the alley between cabin and bulwarks and is slick as snot after the final coat of epoxy. I just need to make it safer. I think the ground rubber particles mixed in the paint will be fine here.

RodB
07-11-2014, 06:21 PM
Kiwigrip ain't cheap but the rest of the work is the same no matter what you do. Just sand the epoxy surface with 80 grit (you have to sand it anyway no matter the finish you use) then apply Kiwigrip... it will work great and last a long time... it comes in several colors Heres how it looks.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/MavHPXtapedfornonskid-72.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/Prestoboat/May%202012%20images/Mavhpxnonskiddonekiwi-72.jpg

Good luck whatever you choose.

R

Todd D
07-11-2014, 08:25 PM
This Spring I saw a very nice method of non-skid application. First the deck was rolled and tipped with the desired paint. As soon as the paint was down Petit non-skid additive was sprayed on with a detail sprayer - just the additive, nothing else in the sprayer. The result was the most even non-skid application I have seen. It only took about 10 minutes to apply non-skid on an entire 26 foot boat's deck. It came out great and used much less additive than would have been the case if the additive was mixed into the paint.

JimConlin
07-11-2014, 10:33 PM
I shake Awlgrip Griptex (coarse) onto a wet coat of Awlgrip. I use a large saltshaker (Think McD's french fry table.) and add enough until the surface is nearly uniform white. After the paint has hardened, the loose grit can be scavenged and sifted for re-use. Blow/sweep off the loose grit, apply another THIN coat of top coat and you're done.
I find that this looks like new after 5-6 years.

I'd think that spraying the grit would work well. The essential thing is to apply the grit to the point of surplus.

George Ray
07-12-2014, 08:01 AM
Sharkskin polymer bead product from the Sherwin-Williams paint store

Awlgrip Griptex

The plastic beads are fine nonskid that does not draw blood or ruin clothes and because the beads are round it does not hold dirt and because the beads are plastic it can be sanded when it is time to repaint. Try sanding 'sand', it's not fun.

I have samples of Sharkskin, Interlux, Petit, and U.S. Paints Griptex and have used a caliper to compare bead sizes. I think Griptex it the best because you can select the size of the bead (fine,medium,course) but I almost always use Sharkskin because it wins hands done in the $$$/performance category. I mix the beads in a quart of paint and stir a bit as am brushing. The flat appearance/texture I find very pleasing and almost everything topsides gets this treatment. Who wants to slip when making an acrobatic move on a damp surface.

Bob Cleek
07-12-2014, 01:00 PM
Good grief...you will be producing a crude , way to dense non skid. Good for a kids skate boards or tug boats, by way overkill for a small craft.


Non skid does not need to be dense...100 percent coverage. A low density non skid produces a very good non skid surface.




by low density I mean about the same density of surface imperfections, dust , sand and dirt , that wBF member and pro boat restorer Pcford gets into his topcoat before he polishes the hell out of it his grinder .


read the technical document from International or alwgrip and use the recommended density, applied as described.




The professional non skid additives are superior because they stay suspended in the paint longer after mixing


Slug, the "density" is a factor of grit size of the sand used. I've done this many times. With an appropriate grid size it works very well. If the epoxy is laid down thinly (I said "a thin coat," didn't I?) the thickness of the roughened surface shouldn't be much more than the thickness of the coat of epoxy laid down.

Bob Cleek
07-12-2014, 01:02 PM
Non-skid so rough it voids the warranty on your oilies.

Grit size is the determinant, again. With proper grit size and a coating of paint, the result is not a rough, but rather an uneven "pebbled" surface.

slug
07-12-2014, 01:28 PM
By grit density i refer to grit particle per sqaure cm.

yacht qaulity nonskid is medium grade grip tex from awlgrip.

This medium griptex is applied so it achieves a low density of particals per sqaure cm.

Since it is not esthetically pleasing to have any naked, shinny patches , in your low density medium grit non skid deck , profesionls mix in additional fine griptex.

this means .... Half fine griptex , half medium griptex in you paint pot. .

This additional fine griptex helps fill the naked paint patches and produces an esthetically pleasing , uniform , low shine deck non skid

Doug Schultz
07-12-2014, 01:38 PM
I have used Bob Cleeks method of a half inch of sand piled up but on top of wet oil based paint. Still works very well.
I like using the paint for nonslip because I can change my mind very easily with a heat gun and a putty knife. As long as I have a resin surface under the paint to give me something to scrape back to it works very well. One day I have to try some of the other methods here just to see how they compare. Price wise its hard to beat sand in paint. if you are careful it can look really good. and it lasts a good long time.