PDA

View Full Version : help me please...



sleek
07-06-2014, 03:53 AM
Soooo I was keeping my unfinished boat at a friends house. Well his father in law put used oil bottles in my boat. The bottles leaked oil and of course it rained spreadi g the oil across the u finished wood wherepai t and glue and glass still needs to be applied. And as we all know, none of that sticks to oil soaked wood. How do it fix this? Detergent? Fire??? Its a mess.

Peerie Maa
07-06-2014, 04:17 AM
Cooking oil or motor oil?

I remember a WB article about a couple of women working at painting and varnishing from way back. They reported dealing with a boat whose bright work timber had been coated with all sorts of oil during build, and how to prepare the wood for varnish. May be you can find that issue.

sleek
07-06-2014, 04:26 AM
Its used motor oil. Ill try find the article. Thanks Perrie.

PeterSibley
07-06-2014, 04:36 AM
I think I'd be experimenting with lots of detergent, scrubbing well and hosing out. Repeat as necessary.

Good luck, it sounds like a disheartening situation !

sleek
07-06-2014, 05:01 AM
Disheartening? I wanted to choke him. Now I just wanna cry.

PeterSibley
07-06-2014, 05:06 AM
You'll fix it , I've had worse and yes I wanted retribution but fix it first ! Y>

JesterGrin
07-06-2014, 05:36 AM
I have no idea where you might live but I would clean it the best I could with paper towels and such to get the liquid up. I would try. There is an aerosol carpet spot removing product called K2R which you can usually find in grocery stores or department stores. Just spray it on and let it dry to a white powder.K2R first. It may take several applications. You can also try Corn Starch. And one more but it would require Heat. I have done this with old Military Rifle stocks that were oiled down as if to save the oil for later use lol. But you can coat it with news paper and with a heat gun warm it up. Not Hot mind you. And as the oil becomes more liquid the news paper will soak it up. I would think you could also use paper towels to get more of the oil then using news paper. Sorry that is it I am out of ideas lol. :)

wizbang 13
07-06-2014, 06:56 AM
Oh man sleek that is a head shaking bumma.
Let us know how it works out.
bruce

Cogeniac
07-06-2014, 09:26 AM
All of the above methods will remove some of the oil (Cornstarch is probably pretty good, and easy too). You will need to let it sit for a while to soak up as much as possible.

If you are painting, then, once it is basically clean, use a oil based paint.. it should be OK.. the oil in the paint is not the same as the motor oil, but they are both oils, so I would guess the paint will still stick. Obviously do not use a water based paint.

You might try scrubbing the surface with varying strengths of oil based solvents.. First mineral spirits, then naphtha, and maybe after that denatured alcohol to try to pull as much of the uncured oil out of the wood as possible.

The real issue is if you are going to try to glass over the wood. If you do that I would really try to dry out the oil, using the same approach as above (the solvents), but more thoroughly. On a small area, test how well the resin soaks into the wood (apply a drop and see if it soaks in...once it cures, see if you can peel it off).

Good luck!!

S

slug
07-06-2014, 10:09 AM
Trichloroethylene is a very powerful oil remover. Use only in a well ventilated space and dont get it on you or you will start break dancing and flip flipping on the shop floor like a sardine.


Brake cleaner...sold in a spray can, is also a very powerful oil remover.

Test on a piece of wood first.

Cogeniac
07-06-2014, 10:19 AM
Trichloroethylene is a very powerful oil remover. Use only in a well ventilated space and dont get it on you or you will start break dancing and flip flipping on the shop floor like a sardine.


Brake cleaner...sold in a spray can, is also a very powerful oil remover.

Test on a piece of wood first.

I'd use Brakleen before denatured alcohol.. it is a little less volatile, and, as Slug says, it does a great job of removing oils..Wear a respirator...and use gloves, or your hands will shrivel up into a parched mess.

S

Jay Greer
07-06-2014, 10:24 AM
There is a blog on this forum that I wrote several years ago which concerns removing oil stains from teak. In this case, it was pine tar mixed with bee's wax which is even more nasty than motor oil. There are photos of the process which is quite simple. Here is the formula. Mix diatomaceous earth, the stuff used in swimming pool filters, with naphtha, dry cleaning fluid, to form a paste. The use of Naptha is important as it will completely disolve the oil allowing the diatomaceous earth to absorb the disolved oil completely. Slather the paste on the stains scrubbing with a fine brush with the grain. Let the mixture dry. Then suck up the powder with a vacuum cleaner nozzle. It may take several trys but it will remove the oil stains. Just don't do this near an open flame as the Naptha is very flammable. Consider wearing a chemical absorbing mask if you are working in a confined place. Prolonged breathing of the fumes can cause health problems if you are making a career out of sniffing the fumes. If you are outside it is of no consequence.
Jay

SNAPMAN
07-06-2014, 11:16 AM
They sell Seal Crete Oil Stain Remover at Home Depot (and probably most other home improvement stores) it is non-toxic to plants, water cleanup. It is sold for cleaning oil stains off concrete, but might be worth calling the manufacturer or testing it on a similar stained wood to make sure there are no ill effects on the wood.

Alan
https://sites.google.com/site/helium12sofsailboat/

paulf
07-06-2014, 11:23 AM
There is a water quality test called a Soxhlet extraction. It uses HEXANE to leach oil from anything. Extremely good solvent, if the oil penetrated the wood the HEXANE will get to it.

I don't know, however, how it effects lignin in wood.

slug
07-06-2014, 11:31 AM
A classic...clean that oil off the teak deck ...routine is salt. Give the stain a soap and water wash then bury it in salt and let it sit overnight.

K2R stain remover for clothing..dry cleaning fluid, is also used for delicate areas that cant be scrubbed.

paulf
07-06-2014, 11:34 AM
P.S. If you use Hexane, don't use REAGENT grade, use Lab or Industrial grade. Reagent grade is ultra pure and costs 10 times as much.

slug
07-06-2014, 11:36 AM
P.S. If you use Hexane, don't use REAGENT grade, use Lab or Industrial grade. Reagent grade is ultra pure and costs 10 times as much.


What do metal workers use to degrease before welding ?

Otter99
07-06-2014, 11:56 AM
How about after doing what you can with solvents, paper, and powders, try a steam cleaner with a detergent? Rent one of those industrial carpet cleaners that spray a hot detergent followed by a strong mechanical vacuuming. Ending with a water base would leave the surface more epoxy/glue friendly. This would only work on flat surfaces of course.

paulf
07-06-2014, 12:13 PM
What do metal workers use to degrease before welding ?

HEXANE will work for that, NO chlorinated solvents around Arc welding!!

Lewisboater
07-06-2014, 12:24 PM
Simple dish soap will dissolve and suspend oil.

Oldad
07-06-2014, 12:53 PM
Kitty litter first? Then solvent soaked good dry sawdust? Then strong de greaser soap and water and run a test when it is dry to see if you have done enough to get a good bond with your epoxy.

Lewisboater
07-06-2014, 01:23 PM
Question... is this plywood or solid wood?

sleek
07-06-2014, 02:56 PM
Its plywood... marine grade.

PeterSibley
07-06-2014, 05:05 PM
HEXANE will work for that, NO chlorinated solvents around Arc welding!!

That includes brake cleaner IIRC. I have memories of toxic chemicals being generated at welding temperatures .

Lewisboater
07-06-2014, 05:06 PM
Then the oil will only soak down through the first layer. You can grind down to the glue layer and patch with fiberglass. Then you KNOW that there won't be any residual oil to degrade the bond or leach to the surface and possibly cause separation of the wood and FG layer(s).

paulf
07-06-2014, 05:37 PM
That includes brake cleaner IIRC. I have memories of toxic chemicals being generated at welding temperatures .

Yes Indeed! bad stuff! The heat and also the UV generation.

Adventitious occurrence

Upon ultraviolet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet) (UV) radiation in the presence of oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen), chloroform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform) slowly converts into phosgene by a radical reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_reaction). To suppress this photodegradation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodegradation), chloroform is often stored in brown-tinted glass containers. Chlorinated compounds used to remove oil from metals, such as automotive brake cleaners, are converted to phosgene by the UV rays of arc welding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_welding) processes.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene#cite_note-8)
Phosgene may also be produced during testing for leaks of older-style refrigerant gases. Chloromethanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloromethane) (R12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodifluoromethane), R22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorodifluoromethane) and others) were formerly leak-tested in situ by employing a small gas torch (propane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane), butane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butane) or propylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene) gas) with a sniffer tube and a copper reaction plate in the flame nozzle of the torch. If any refrigerant gas was leaking from a pipe or joint, the gas would be sucked into the flame via the sniffer tube and would cause a colour change of the gas flame to a bright greenish blue. In the process, phosgene gas would be created due to the thermal reaction. No valid statistics are available, but anecdotal reports suggest that numerous refrigeration technicians suffered the effects of phosgene poisoning due to their ignorance of the toxicity of phosgene, produced during such leak testing.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Electronic sensing of refrigerant gases phased out the use of flame testing for leaks in the 1980s. Similarly, phosgene poisoning is a consideration for people fighting fires that are occurring in the vicinity of freon refrigeration equipment, smoking in the vicinity of a freon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon) leak, or fighting fires using halon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halomethane) or halotron.

Phosgene is considered a chemical weapon.

sleek
07-06-2014, 06:00 PM
Phosgene will knock you on your ass. Shut down kidney function and other things. No cure either so far as I know...

I will do the sanding thing if I can. The oil is where I need to apply the tape for the seams. I will also be glassing the outside with 12 oz glass. Probably goi g to do some structure reinforcement as well with stainless screws to hold a mechanical bond on spots to help out. Fonna do the kitty litter and sawdust thing with the solvent soak. Then soak and scrub with driveway cleaner, fresh water rinse to include leaving it open to rain. Then I will use break clean to get the corners and edges for the tape. Also a good sanding job. Then finish it off with one last good solvent and detergent rinse.

Stu Fyfe
07-06-2014, 06:13 PM
I had good luck this way as well.

There is a blog on this forum that I wrote several years ago which concerns removing oil stains from teak. In this case, it was pine tar mixed with bee's wax which is even more nasty than motor oil. There are photos of the process which is quite simple. Here is the formula. Mix diatomaceous earth, the stuff used in swimming pool filters, with naphtha, dry cleaning fluid, to form a paste. The use of Naptha is important as it will completely disolve the oil allowing the diatomaceous earth to absorb the disolved oil completely. Slather the paste on the stains scrubbing with a fine brush with the grain. Let the mixture dry. Then suck up the powder with a vacuum cleaner nozzle. It may take several trys but it will remove the oil stains. Just don't do this near an open flame as the Naptha is very flammable. Consider wearing a chemical absorbing mask if you are working in a confined place. Prolonged breathing of the fumes can cause health problems if you are making a career out of sniffing the fumes. If you are outside it is of no consequence.
Jay

sleek
07-06-2014, 07:24 PM
I will also try the idea above. Im taking no chances and will do all the above ideas.

Jay Greer
07-06-2014, 09:45 PM
I specialize in restoration of wooden art objects as a side line to building boats. I quarantee that the process I described here of using Diatomacious Earth and Naptha is the fastest and most successful method of removing oil stains from wood I have ever used. It can not harm the wood and, most often, produces a stain free surface in minutes.
Jay

sleek
07-07-2014, 01:18 AM
Thank you so much guys for the help. I will get to it. I will probably try Jays and DcBrowns ideas first. Probably on scrap to get an idea of how well bonding will work afterwards.

chuckt
07-07-2014, 09:23 AM
When you clean it up as best you can, I would also look into using West's GFlex as your first epoxy coat and then West regular epoxy. Call the technical help line to make sure I'm right but I'm pretty sure GFlex is going to deal with the oil residue better than regular epoxy and you can use the regular West epoxy on top of GFlex if you wish. GFlex comes in thickened or unthickened and you would want the unthickened for glass work. And a warm day. It doesn't flow or wet out as well as regular epoxy so isn't ideal in normal circumstances for glass work but may be what you need for your unusual circumstance. Again, a call to the technical help line at West would be in order.

Cogeniac
07-07-2014, 09:27 AM
Yes Indeed! bad stuff! The heat and also the UV generation.

Adventitious occurrence

Upon ultraviolet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet) (UV) radiation in the presence of oxygen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen), chloroform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform) slowly converts into phosgene by a radical reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_reaction). To suppress this photodegradation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photodegradation), chloroform is often stored in brown-tinted glass containers. Chlorinated compounds used to remove oil from metals, such as automotive brake cleaners, are converted to phosgene by the UV rays of arc welding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_welding) processes.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene#cite_note-8)
Phosgene may also be produced during testing for leaks of older-style refrigerant gases. Chloromethanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloromethane) (R12 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodifluoromethane), R22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorodifluoromethane) and others) were formerly leak-tested in situ by employing a small gas torch (propane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane), butane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butane) or propylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene) gas) with a sniffer tube and a copper reaction plate in the flame nozzle of the torch. If any refrigerant gas was leaking from a pipe or joint, the gas would be sucked into the flame via the sniffer tube and would cause a colour change of the gas flame to a bright greenish blue. In the process, phosgene gas would be created due to the thermal reaction. No valid statistics are available, but anecdotal reports suggest that numerous refrigeration technicians suffered the effects of phosgene poisoning due to their ignorance of the toxicity of phosgene, produced during such leak testing.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Electronic sensing of refrigerant gases phased out the use of flame testing for leaks in the 1980s. Similarly, phosgene poisoning is a consideration for people fighting fires that are occurring in the vicinity of freon refrigeration equipment, smoking in the vicinity of a freon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon) leak, or fighting fires using halon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halomethane) or halotron.

Phosgene is considered a chemical weapon.


Holy crap! I had no idea!!