Creosote /or / kerosene as bilge area preservative.

[RonW]

Was reading howard chappelle's book - boatbuilding- and on page 438 & 439 he states to use creosote under floors and in bilge areas for preservative, he also says if the smell of creosote is offensive( of which i would think it would be) then to give the area a good brushing of kerosene oil.But he doesn't seem to be in favor of paint. I was actually looking to see if he suggested red lead paint to be used under floor area. Any opinions on this??
I am thinking of building the -http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Utilities/SallieHyde.html -and was debating as the best way to preserve the bilge area. Was thinking of building the entire boat of southern yellow pine. Any opinions on this, and opinion of the possible lifespan of such a boat?

[TimothyB]

I honestly don't think I would want to be in a boat that used kerosene brushed on in the bilges, regardless. The VoCs would be narsty, let alone the coasties not being too happy about petroleum in the bilge.

Creosote in the bilge also sounds like a recipe for an aroma cocktail that I would rather not expose myself to.

Red lead has been being used for quite some time with good results. Take a look at the WB FAQ.. there are Red lead sections there. Also do a search on Red Lead and Bilge in the archives. You'll find plenty of references.

Good luck!

--T

[lagspiller]

One of the most popular bilge products here (wooden boats only) is "Black Varnish" - a thick, black paint based on pitch. It smells like tar. Dries slowly and gives very good protection. It stays a bit tacky for a long time (years) so it cannot be used in areas you often come in contact with. It is also impossible to paint over once it is used... the tars bleed will through.

Sounds a bit like the creosote thought, but smells good - traditional.

tom

[ 02-05-2004, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: lagspiller ]

[Dave Carnell]

T. N. Simmons never painted the inside of the bottom of his Sea-Skiffs. He used Cuprinol® or Woodlife®. Both were copper napthenate in mineral spirits, more effective preservative than creosote and no odor when dry.

[Bob Smalser]

I don't think you can get creosote very easily....all the plants here have been shut down....that plus it has to be applied under pressure.

I would think kerosene would do nothing positive, as it grows its own algae given the right set of conditions.

Jasco and others make a 25pct copper napthenate solution that's used now since Penta was banned....sold at Home Depot.

[Gary E]

Dave has it right, Cuprinol and Woodlife are very good..

BTW.. how do you make the R thingie?

G

[Nicholas Carey]

Originally posted by Gary E:
BTW.. how do you make the R thingie?Assuming that by "R thingie", you mean red lead, you call up The Paint Company:

The George Kirby, Jr. Paint Company (http://www.kirbypaint.com/) ("Makers of Marine Paint Since 1846")
163 Mt. Vernon Street
New Bedford, MA 02740
+01: 508/997-9008

E-mail: Info@kirbypaint.com

and order their Red Lead Primer ($72/gallon, be prepared for beaucoups shipping charges :eek: even for garden variety UPS as the stuff is heavy—welcome to the world of boats :D ).

[ 02-05-2004, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

[buhmkin]

Wow, things are different around here. In a past life, before the new forum, when I bought my first wooden boat and came here for advise I asked if it would be advisable to succumb to the urge to douse my bilges with cuprinol or zinc napthanate and was more or less taken forward and flogged by a guy named Cleek.

I still think it's a good idea and he seems to gone to lee like a fart on the aft deck. Really the choice between red lead and copper napthanate (Cuprinol) or its zinc based sister is a win-win. Do you want the end result to be a finished product? Then go with the lead.

And VOCs? Well, at least they mostly gas off in the end, eh?

[Bob Smalser]

Really the choice between red lead and copper napthanate (Cuprinol) or its zinc based sister is a win-win. Actually, what I had in mind was copper napthenate as the first soaking beneath red lead followed by the color of choice...

...although traditional opinion is to keep interior coatings as thin as possible so the wood can breathe some.

In case you don’t want to pay freight from Mass….here’s a nugget I got here from Timothy:

Lead Tetraoxide - Pb3O4

Often it is listed as "Lead Oxide, Red"….can be found locally at industrial suppliers. I get it occasionally at a surplus store that buys up Navy surplus paints.

“Do NOT get it from a chemical supply house for scientists.. they will sell you lab grade stuff that is 10x the price you need to pay.”

Mix the powder into a paste with linseed oil and pare down this Dave Fleming recipe to fit your needs:

100 Lbs. Red Lead Paste
2.5 Gal. Linseed Oil
1 Pint Turps
1 Pint Drier

[Ian Wright]

Cuprinol on my boat from new. once planked and caulked several coats of Cuprinol were sploshed on inside the hull until it came through the plank seams then a coat outside.
Several weeks later painting started. International Bilge paint inside, VC epoxy-tar out side.
Normal yacht paint above the waterline.
It worked fine. All primer paint still sound after fifteen years.

IanW

[ 02-06-2004, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Ian Wright ]

[buhmkin]

Painting over cuprinol. I never thought of that. You guys rule.

[Spissgatter W-9]

There is an ancient Norwegian recipie posted on an earlier thread. They swear by it with lots of history of success. Something like 4:4:1 Linseed oil:Turpentine:Pine Tar. I soaked Anna Marie inside and out with multiple coats. Smells great. Creosote and kerosine might be better but, phew that cure is got to be worse than the disease.

[JormaS]

For basics about Creosote, go to www.nsc.org/library/chemical/Creosote.htm (http://www.nsc.org/library/chemical/Creosote.htm)

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Black varnish stops bleeding through after the first half century; Mirelle's bilges had been painted with it when new and nowadays they have white bilge paint on them.

[Dave K]

Creosote is carcinogenic - I lost a good horse to cancer most likely caused by our using creosote on the wood of the stalls (to discourage wood chewing). Copper napthanate (cuprinol) is also said to be carcinogenic - it sure has something chemically strong in it. L Francis Herreshoff used to talk of using kerosene, but it is flammable. I wonder if Dave Carnell isn't on the right track in using plain old antifreeze as wood preservative. Tom Colvin also uses it and has had great results from it, even using it to seal the edges of plywood (in preference to epoxy with which he has had pretty negative results). Just a thought...