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kalmquist
12-18-2000, 10:45 PM
I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.

Thanks, Karl Almquist

kalmquist
12-18-2000, 10:45 PM
I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.

Thanks, Karl Almquist

kalmquist
12-18-2000, 10:45 PM
I have researched West System, System Three and Interlux on the web. In concept they all seem similar. I would appreciate recommendations as to ease of use and quality.

Thanks, Karl Almquist

noquiklos
12-18-2000, 11:46 PM
I've used System 3 and West, and prefer the 2-1 mix ratios of S3. West also seems a little brittle after cure.
Never tried Interlux, RAK or MAAS, though I saw a MAAS demonstration at the PT woodenboat festival. I'll stick (pun) with S3.
Roy

noquiklos
12-18-2000, 11:46 PM
I've used System 3 and West, and prefer the 2-1 mix ratios of S3. West also seems a little brittle after cure.
Never tried Interlux, RAK or MAAS, though I saw a MAAS demonstration at the PT woodenboat festival. I'll stick (pun) with S3.
Roy

noquiklos
12-18-2000, 11:46 PM
I've used System 3 and West, and prefer the 2-1 mix ratios of S3. West also seems a little brittle after cure.
Never tried Interlux, RAK or MAAS, though I saw a MAAS demonstration at the PT woodenboat festival. I'll stick (pun) with S3.
Roy

Scott Rosen
12-19-2000, 07:02 AM
I use MAS and I'm pleased with it. I like the 2:1 mixing ratio. It's more flexible when cured than West.

Scott Rosen
12-19-2000, 07:02 AM
I use MAS and I'm pleased with it. I like the 2:1 mixing ratio. It's more flexible when cured than West.

Scott Rosen
12-19-2000, 07:02 AM
I use MAS and I'm pleased with it. I like the 2:1 mixing ratio. It's more flexible when cured than West.

TomRobb
12-19-2000, 07:47 AM
Best for whom? Best for what? My hunch is that this is a bit like the "best" wine. The best is the one you like. Maas' no blush quality is attractive. CPES seems to be best for sealing/undercoating paint & varnish. WEST has a huge experience database, but some claim it's on the brittle side. S3, don't have a clue. There are some that are less fussy about mix ratios or temperatures. It goes on & on.
Belly up to the bar and pick yer poison pilgrim.

TomRobb
12-19-2000, 07:47 AM
Best for whom? Best for what? My hunch is that this is a bit like the "best" wine. The best is the one you like. Maas' no blush quality is attractive. CPES seems to be best for sealing/undercoating paint & varnish. WEST has a huge experience database, but some claim it's on the brittle side. S3, don't have a clue. There are some that are less fussy about mix ratios or temperatures. It goes on & on.
Belly up to the bar and pick yer poison pilgrim.

TomRobb
12-19-2000, 07:47 AM
Best for whom? Best for what? My hunch is that this is a bit like the "best" wine. The best is the one you like. Maas' no blush quality is attractive. CPES seems to be best for sealing/undercoating paint & varnish. WEST has a huge experience database, but some claim it's on the brittle side. S3, don't have a clue. There are some that are less fussy about mix ratios or temperatures. It goes on & on.
Belly up to the bar and pick yer poison pilgrim.

paladin
12-19-2000, 07:50 AM
I have used the the System Three product for several boats when Jerry Schindler made the resins and before was sold to System Three. It is a 1:1 mix and worked very well for a Piver AA-31 trimaran, several dinghys both plywood and strip planked, a Brown Searunner 31 and a Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 which circumnavigated. They are good resins...and also from 10-15 years experience if the West product is used extensively in the tropics they tend to get brittle and have had a problem or two with "Rolling shear", the ply laminations trying to work against the hard resin. The last two boats used MAS epoxy and have performed very well, and the new boat, a 40 footer uses MAS as the epoxy of choice.

paladin
12-19-2000, 07:50 AM
I have used the the System Three product for several boats when Jerry Schindler made the resins and before was sold to System Three. It is a 1:1 mix and worked very well for a Piver AA-31 trimaran, several dinghys both plywood and strip planked, a Brown Searunner 31 and a Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 which circumnavigated. They are good resins...and also from 10-15 years experience if the West product is used extensively in the tropics they tend to get brittle and have had a problem or two with "Rolling shear", the ply laminations trying to work against the hard resin. The last two boats used MAS epoxy and have performed very well, and the new boat, a 40 footer uses MAS as the epoxy of choice.

paladin
12-19-2000, 07:50 AM
I have used the the System Three product for several boats when Jerry Schindler made the resins and before was sold to System Three. It is a 1:1 mix and worked very well for a Piver AA-31 trimaran, several dinghys both plywood and strip planked, a Brown Searunner 31 and a Bruce Roberts Offshore 38 which circumnavigated. They are good resins...and also from 10-15 years experience if the West product is used extensively in the tropics they tend to get brittle and have had a problem or two with "Rolling shear", the ply laminations trying to work against the hard resin. The last two boats used MAS epoxy and have performed very well, and the new boat, a 40 footer uses MAS as the epoxy of choice.

Ross Faneuf
12-19-2000, 01:08 PM
I've used System 3 for about 20 years, and it remains my epoxy of choice. I second the comments about the brittleness of Gougeon and the flexibility of S3.

Ross Faneuf
12-19-2000, 01:08 PM
I've used System 3 for about 20 years, and it remains my epoxy of choice. I second the comments about the brittleness of Gougeon and the flexibility of S3.

Ross Faneuf
12-19-2000, 01:08 PM
I've used System 3 for about 20 years, and it remains my epoxy of choice. I second the comments about the brittleness of Gougeon and the flexibility of S3.

Mike Field
12-19-2000, 07:59 PM
We have a local brand here called Bote-Cote, as well as the Gougeon's system. It has a 2-1 mix ratio, which, like Roy, I prefer to Gougeon's 5-1. (Bote-Cote smells nicer, too.) It's easier to make mistakes in proportioning 5-1 than it is with 2-1. I haven't noticed any strength differences in the finished product.

Mike Field
12-19-2000, 07:59 PM
We have a local brand here called Bote-Cote, as well as the Gougeon's system. It has a 2-1 mix ratio, which, like Roy, I prefer to Gougeon's 5-1. (Bote-Cote smells nicer, too.) It's easier to make mistakes in proportioning 5-1 than it is with 2-1. I haven't noticed any strength differences in the finished product.

Mike Field
12-19-2000, 07:59 PM
We have a local brand here called Bote-Cote, as well as the Gougeon's system. It has a 2-1 mix ratio, which, like Roy, I prefer to Gougeon's 5-1. (Bote-Cote smells nicer, too.) It's easier to make mistakes in proportioning 5-1 than it is with 2-1. I haven't noticed any strength differences in the finished product.

Art Read
12-19-2000, 09:04 PM
If you're not real familiar with using epoxy, (and I WASN'T...) I can't recomend System 3's T-88 highly enough. Easy, 1-1 ratio, very forgiving and doesn't require filler. And people around here who've been using it for years are still saying good things about it...

Art Read
12-19-2000, 09:04 PM
If you're not real familiar with using epoxy, (and I WASN'T...) I can't recomend System 3's T-88 highly enough. Easy, 1-1 ratio, very forgiving and doesn't require filler. And people around here who've been using it for years are still saying good things about it...

Art Read
12-19-2000, 09:04 PM
If you're not real familiar with using epoxy, (and I WASN'T...) I can't recomend System 3's T-88 highly enough. Easy, 1-1 ratio, very forgiving and doesn't require filler. And people around here who've been using it for years are still saying good things about it...

Frank Hagan
12-20-2000, 01:26 AM
I used RAKA on my boat, and liked the result. I did have "catering" on the surface, a condition that System Three says their "surface agents" added to their epoxy tends to minimize. (Cratering is where the epoxy tends to look like wall texturing on wallboard, only not that prominent. A solution for it is to use a plastic spreader and fill the craters with a "skim coat" rather than sanding forever to get it all smooth.)

Anyone have experience with both RAKA and System Three? And notice a difference in cratering?

Frank Hagan
12-20-2000, 01:26 AM
I used RAKA on my boat, and liked the result. I did have "catering" on the surface, a condition that System Three says their "surface agents" added to their epoxy tends to minimize. (Cratering is where the epoxy tends to look like wall texturing on wallboard, only not that prominent. A solution for it is to use a plastic spreader and fill the craters with a "skim coat" rather than sanding forever to get it all smooth.)

Anyone have experience with both RAKA and System Three? And notice a difference in cratering?

Frank Hagan
12-20-2000, 01:26 AM
I used RAKA on my boat, and liked the result. I did have "catering" on the surface, a condition that System Three says their "surface agents" added to their epoxy tends to minimize. (Cratering is where the epoxy tends to look like wall texturing on wallboard, only not that prominent. A solution for it is to use a plastic spreader and fill the craters with a "skim coat" rather than sanding forever to get it all smooth.)

Anyone have experience with both RAKA and System Three? And notice a difference in cratering?

Robert Mann
12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!

Robert Mann
12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!

Robert Mann
12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!

Robert Mann
12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!

Robert Mann
12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!

Robert Mann
12-20-2000, 09:35 PM
I have built two experimental aircraft, one was finished in 1978 and my most recent in 1998. The 1978 aircraft has over 500 flying hours on her and my current aircraft has 185. Both aircraft are aerobatic and both have all wood wings and tail surfaces that are glued with T-88, a product of System Three. A MOST EXCELLENT GLUE IN ALL RESPECTS. For that reason I used T-88 on my kick butt Catspaw Dinghy and very few screws. I also used System Three Epoxy resin to glass the outside and then their water reduceable two-part epoxy coating for the paint job. I have nothing but praise for all of their products that I have used. Not only are they user friendly but they hold up well. I BET MY LIFE ON THEIR PRODUCTS!

Dave Carnell
12-28-2000, 07:56 AM
I first used epoxy resins about 1952. I had a chemical process development project with a 1000-gal. glass-lined steel reactor. Someone dropped a wrench in it and chipped a hunk of the glass lining, exposing steel. The standard repair was to undercut the edges and put in a gold patch as a dentist would. In this case, the conditions in the reactor were not extreme, but I had to be sure there was no iron contamination. I had a couple of tubes of an epoxy putty that I mixed and applied to the damaged area. It held up for a couple of years until the project was finished.

I started using epoxy in building boats around 1960. I bought resin and hardener from Morgan in CA, a Mil surplus dealer. One system used Versamid® polyamide hardener with a fairly viscous resin at 1:1. This is similar to T-88, now owned by System Three. All this is long before there were either West or System Three products.

I also used surplus epoxy resin with triethylene diamine and tetraethylene triamine hardeners from the research lab where I worked. They were 10:1 mixes—strong-smelling and way too fast at high ambient temperatures.

In research on epoxies I found that Dow described their 330 resin as their lowest viscosity undiluted resin. Lower viscosity resins sold by Gougeon, System Three, or other suppliers are all diluted with glycidyl ethers and nonyl phenol. These are reactive diluents, so give 100% solids on cure.

I found Dow 330 resin at Wicks Aircraft for about $21/gal. It is now about $29/gal. <www.wicks.com/aircraft> They were selling straight amine hardeners with it, so I just bought the resin.

By this time System Three was in business. I tried their three hardeners and liked the 2:1 ratio and the range of working temperatures. I use Dow 330 and System Three hardeners for all epoxy applications. For gluing applications I add about 10% talc to improve glue joint strength. I did a lot of experiments with fillers and settled on talc as the best. It combines high strength, thixotropicity, easy sanding, low cost, and ready availability (baby powder).

I think that is the best epoxy system there is.

Dave Carnell
12-28-2000, 07:56 AM
I first used epoxy resins about 1952. I had a chemical process development project with a 1000-gal. glass-lined steel reactor. Someone dropped a wrench in it and chipped a hunk of the glass lining, exposing steel. The standard repair was to undercut the edges and put in a gold patch as a dentist would. In this case, the conditions in the reactor were not extreme, but I had to be sure there was no iron contamination. I had a couple of tubes of an epoxy putty that I mixed and applied to the damaged area. It held up for a couple of years until the project was finished.

I started using epoxy in building boats around 1960. I bought resin and hardener from Morgan in CA, a Mil surplus dealer. One system used Versamid® polyamide hardener with a fairly viscous resin at 1:1. This is similar to T-88, now owned by System Three. All this is long before there were either West or System Three products.

I also used surplus epoxy resin with triethylene diamine and tetraethylene triamine hardeners from the research lab where I worked. They were 10:1 mixes—strong-smelling and way too fast at high ambient temperatures.

In research on epoxies I found that Dow described their 330 resin as their lowest viscosity undiluted resin. Lower viscosity resins sold by Gougeon, System Three, or other suppliers are all diluted with glycidyl ethers and nonyl phenol. These are reactive diluents, so give 100% solids on cure.

I found Dow 330 resin at Wicks Aircraft for about $21/gal. It is now about $29/gal. <www.wicks.com/aircraft> They were selling straight amine hardeners with it, so I just bought the resin.

By this time System Three was in business. I tried their three hardeners and liked the 2:1 ratio and the range of working temperatures. I use Dow 330 and System Three hardeners for all epoxy applications. For gluing applications I add about 10% talc to improve glue joint strength. I did a lot of experiments with fillers and settled on talc as the best. It combines high strength, thixotropicity, easy sanding, low cost, and ready availability (baby powder).

I think that is the best epoxy system there is.

Dave Carnell
12-28-2000, 07:56 AM
I first used epoxy resins about 1952. I had a chemical process development project with a 1000-gal. glass-lined steel reactor. Someone dropped a wrench in it and chipped a hunk of the glass lining, exposing steel. The standard repair was to undercut the edges and put in a gold patch as a dentist would. In this case, the conditions in the reactor were not extreme, but I had to be sure there was no iron contamination. I had a couple of tubes of an epoxy putty that I mixed and applied to the damaged area. It held up for a couple of years until the project was finished.

I started using epoxy in building boats around 1960. I bought resin and hardener from Morgan in CA, a Mil surplus dealer. One system used Versamid® polyamide hardener with a fairly viscous resin at 1:1. This is similar to T-88, now owned by System Three. All this is long before there were either West or System Three products.

I also used surplus epoxy resin with triethylene diamine and tetraethylene triamine hardeners from the research lab where I worked. They were 10:1 mixes—strong-smelling and way too fast at high ambient temperatures.

In research on epoxies I found that Dow described their 330 resin as their lowest viscosity undiluted resin. Lower viscosity resins sold by Gougeon, System Three, or other suppliers are all diluted with glycidyl ethers and nonyl phenol. These are reactive diluents, so give 100% solids on cure.

I found Dow 330 resin at Wicks Aircraft for about $21/gal. It is now about $29/gal. <www.wicks.com/aircraft> They were selling straight amine hardeners with it, so I just bought the resin.

By this time System Three was in business. I tried their three hardeners and liked the 2:1 ratio and the range of working temperatures. I use Dow 330 and System Three hardeners for all epoxy applications. For gluing applications I add about 10% talc to improve glue joint strength. I did a lot of experiments with fillers and settled on talc as the best. It combines high strength, thixotropicity, easy sanding, low cost, and ready availability (baby powder).

I think that is the best epoxy system there is.

videoguy
12-31-2000, 07:42 PM
Dave good idea using baby powder and it smells nicer than the corn starch I use

videoguy
12-31-2000, 07:42 PM
Dave good idea using baby powder and it smells nicer than the corn starch I use

videoguy
12-31-2000, 07:42 PM
Dave good idea using baby powder and it smells nicer than the corn starch I use

CharlieS
12-31-2000, 09:15 PM
I used to use West but about three years ago a fellow builder had me try Evercoat 1 to 1 epoxy. I was very pleased and have used it ever since. I also now use their additives and fillers.

CharlieS
12-31-2000, 09:15 PM
I used to use West but about three years ago a fellow builder had me try Evercoat 1 to 1 epoxy. I was very pleased and have used it ever since. I also now use their additives and fillers.

CharlieS
12-31-2000, 09:15 PM
I used to use West but about three years ago a fellow builder had me try Evercoat 1 to 1 epoxy. I was very pleased and have used it ever since. I also now use their additives and fillers.

thechemist
01-01-2001, 01:54 PM
Evercoat makes two formulations that have wide distribution under their own name [and a remarkable similarity to certain products under the Seafit name at West Marine]. One is a one-to-one mix, and the other a four-to-one mix. The one-to-one mix is much more flexible than the four-to-one mix. One or another may be more suitable for different applications. You should be able to blend the two mixed formulations to obtain intermediate properties.

thechemist
01-01-2001, 01:54 PM
Evercoat makes two formulations that have wide distribution under their own name [and a remarkable similarity to certain products under the Seafit name at West Marine]. One is a one-to-one mix, and the other a four-to-one mix. The one-to-one mix is much more flexible than the four-to-one mix. One or another may be more suitable for different applications. You should be able to blend the two mixed formulations to obtain intermediate properties.

thechemist
01-01-2001, 01:54 PM
Evercoat makes two formulations that have wide distribution under their own name [and a remarkable similarity to certain products under the Seafit name at West Marine]. One is a one-to-one mix, and the other a four-to-one mix. The one-to-one mix is much more flexible than the four-to-one mix. One or another may be more suitable for different applications. You should be able to blend the two mixed formulations to obtain intermediate properties.

Andrew
01-05-2001, 10:38 AM
On using Baby Powder as filler, check the ingredients. Some are primarily talc, some cornstarch and others are mixtures of both.

Andrew
01-05-2001, 10:38 AM
On using Baby Powder as filler, check the ingredients. Some are primarily talc, some cornstarch and others are mixtures of both.

Andrew
01-05-2001, 10:38 AM
On using Baby Powder as filler, check the ingredients. Some are primarily talc, some cornstarch and others are mixtures of both.

Garrett Lowell
05-18-2004, 11:03 AM
I wanted to bump this up, and see if there is any new input, as this thread was started over three years ago.

Garrett Lowell
05-18-2004, 11:03 AM
I wanted to bump this up, and see if there is any new input, as this thread was started over three years ago.

Garrett Lowell
05-18-2004, 11:03 AM
I wanted to bump this up, and see if there is any new input, as this thread was started over three years ago.

Paul H
05-18-2004, 03:24 PM
How to define best, that is a tough one. I have little experience with boat building epoxies, just 15 gallons on my Tolman Skiff, with another or so needed to completed.

Here were my thoughts on how I chose the epoxy I did. Proven track record, I wanted a system that had been on the market for some time, so that I had confidance nothing weird would happen with the resin down the road. Mixing ratios not overly critical or difficult, I don't want something that has to be accurate within a few percent or you loose massive strength. Low price, I figured $30-35 a gallon was in the ball park of reasonable price.

I chose System III, they've been around for awhile, I've had no problems to date, and the price for a 15 gallon kit isn't that bad. I don't know if it is the best, but I have no plans to change.

Paul H
05-18-2004, 03:24 PM
How to define best, that is a tough one. I have little experience with boat building epoxies, just 15 gallons on my Tolman Skiff, with another or so needed to completed.

Here were my thoughts on how I chose the epoxy I did. Proven track record, I wanted a system that had been on the market for some time, so that I had confidance nothing weird would happen with the resin down the road. Mixing ratios not overly critical or difficult, I don't want something that has to be accurate within a few percent or you loose massive strength. Low price, I figured $30-35 a gallon was in the ball park of reasonable price.

I chose System III, they've been around for awhile, I've had no problems to date, and the price for a 15 gallon kit isn't that bad. I don't know if it is the best, but I have no plans to change.

Paul H
05-18-2004, 03:24 PM
How to define best, that is a tough one. I have little experience with boat building epoxies, just 15 gallons on my Tolman Skiff, with another or so needed to completed.

Here were my thoughts on how I chose the epoxy I did. Proven track record, I wanted a system that had been on the market for some time, so that I had confidance nothing weird would happen with the resin down the road. Mixing ratios not overly critical or difficult, I don't want something that has to be accurate within a few percent or you loose massive strength. Low price, I figured $30-35 a gallon was in the ball park of reasonable price.

I chose System III, they've been around for awhile, I've had no problems to date, and the price for a 15 gallon kit isn't that bad. I don't know if it is the best, but I have no plans to change.

Garrett Lowell
05-19-2004, 09:07 AM
Thanks Paul, for your input. I'm probably going to go with System III, then, unless somebody has something else to say.

Garrett Lowell
05-19-2004, 09:07 AM
Thanks Paul, for your input. I'm probably going to go with System III, then, unless somebody has something else to say.

Garrett Lowell
05-19-2004, 09:07 AM
Thanks Paul, for your input. I'm probably going to go with System III, then, unless somebody has something else to say.

Paul H
05-19-2004, 08:29 PM
The only thing I've heard potentially negative about Sys III, and it was third hand, is that it can turn cloudy on clear finished boats. This was from a friend who builds Kayaks, and hasn't personally used Sys III. I don't know if it was an issue with the resin, or the person who applied it.

I'd venture to say that there have been a fair number of clear finished boats that have been built with Sys III, and a problem with clouding would be well known.

As I noted in my previous post, I can't say that Sys III is the best resin, it just seemed to best match my criteria. I wouldn't doubt that many of the other products on the market would work as well. Then I think about the overall time and money I'm putting into my boat, over 1 year of spare time and over $20k on the finished deal. Then I think about maybe saving $100-200 on some of the newer epoxys and I don't see it as worth the risk. I'd rather use a cheaper paint.

If I was just banging out a small boat for the experience and rough service, potentially short life, then I'd use the cheapest epoxy I could get.

Paul H
05-19-2004, 08:29 PM
The only thing I've heard potentially negative about Sys III, and it was third hand, is that it can turn cloudy on clear finished boats. This was from a friend who builds Kayaks, and hasn't personally used Sys III. I don't know if it was an issue with the resin, or the person who applied it.

I'd venture to say that there have been a fair number of clear finished boats that have been built with Sys III, and a problem with clouding would be well known.

As I noted in my previous post, I can't say that Sys III is the best resin, it just seemed to best match my criteria. I wouldn't doubt that many of the other products on the market would work as well. Then I think about the overall time and money I'm putting into my boat, over 1 year of spare time and over $20k on the finished deal. Then I think about maybe saving $100-200 on some of the newer epoxys and I don't see it as worth the risk. I'd rather use a cheaper paint.

If I was just banging out a small boat for the experience and rough service, potentially short life, then I'd use the cheapest epoxy I could get.

Paul H
05-19-2004, 08:29 PM
The only thing I've heard potentially negative about Sys III, and it was third hand, is that it can turn cloudy on clear finished boats. This was from a friend who builds Kayaks, and hasn't personally used Sys III. I don't know if it was an issue with the resin, or the person who applied it.

I'd venture to say that there have been a fair number of clear finished boats that have been built with Sys III, and a problem with clouding would be well known.

As I noted in my previous post, I can't say that Sys III is the best resin, it just seemed to best match my criteria. I wouldn't doubt that many of the other products on the market would work as well. Then I think about the overall time and money I'm putting into my boat, over 1 year of spare time and over $20k on the finished deal. Then I think about maybe saving $100-200 on some of the newer epoxys and I don't see it as worth the risk. I'd rather use a cheaper paint.

If I was just banging out a small boat for the experience and rough service, potentially short life, then I'd use the cheapest epoxy I could get.

Wild Wassa
05-19-2004, 08:46 PM
BoatCraft Pacific's Bote-Cote as my a normal epoxy and CPES as a thinned epoxy and rot stopper. Both seem to work well.

Bote-Cote, is non-blushing, has a good comprehensive system, with a good range of hardeners and fillers.

Bote-Cote is sold in the US.

Warren.

Wild Wassa
05-19-2004, 08:46 PM
BoatCraft Pacific's Bote-Cote as my a normal epoxy and CPES as a thinned epoxy and rot stopper. Both seem to work well.

Bote-Cote, is non-blushing, has a good comprehensive system, with a good range of hardeners and fillers.

Bote-Cote is sold in the US.

Warren.

Wild Wassa
05-19-2004, 08:46 PM
BoatCraft Pacific's Bote-Cote as my a normal epoxy and CPES as a thinned epoxy and rot stopper. Both seem to work well.

Bote-Cote, is non-blushing, has a good comprehensive system, with a good range of hardeners and fillers.

Bote-Cote is sold in the US.

Warren.

RodB
05-21-2004, 01:18 AM
I don't think you can go wrong using System III.

My boat's designer has built over 60 boats and he uses and recommends System III. I have used over 20 gallons of Sys III with all three hardeners and am quite satisfied with the versatility and quality in a broad range of conditons. I am quite confident in mixing for different conditions and uses and almost always hit the right amount of working time I require from 45-99 degrees.

I also gleaned a massive amount of info from him on using and applying epoxy for boat building and have learned some great techniques.

I have considered using MAS low viscosity for saturating my Dynel covered deck leaving a nice texture. (I saw a pro deck produced with it and it was the nicest sailboat textured deck I've ever seen.

The System III low viscosity is twice as expensive as their standard resin. MAS is about 15% cheaper. I guess the kayak builders spend lots for their clear finish.

Good luck,

RB

[ 05-21-2004, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: RodB ]

RodB
05-21-2004, 01:18 AM
I don't think you can go wrong using System III.

My boat's designer has built over 60 boats and he uses and recommends System III. I have used over 20 gallons of Sys III with all three hardeners and am quite satisfied with the versatility and quality in a broad range of conditons. I am quite confident in mixing for different conditions and uses and almost always hit the right amount of working time I require from 45-99 degrees.

I also gleaned a massive amount of info from him on using and applying epoxy for boat building and have learned some great techniques.

I have considered using MAS low viscosity for saturating my Dynel covered deck leaving a nice texture. (I saw a pro deck produced with it and it was the nicest sailboat textured deck I've ever seen.

The System III low viscosity is twice as expensive as their standard resin. MAS is about 15% cheaper. I guess the kayak builders spend lots for their clear finish.

Good luck,

RB

[ 05-21-2004, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: RodB ]

RodB
05-21-2004, 01:18 AM
I don't think you can go wrong using System III.

My boat's designer has built over 60 boats and he uses and recommends System III. I have used over 20 gallons of Sys III with all three hardeners and am quite satisfied with the versatility and quality in a broad range of conditons. I am quite confident in mixing for different conditions and uses and almost always hit the right amount of working time I require from 45-99 degrees.

I also gleaned a massive amount of info from him on using and applying epoxy for boat building and have learned some great techniques.

I have considered using MAS low viscosity for saturating my Dynel covered deck leaving a nice texture. (I saw a pro deck produced with it and it was the nicest sailboat textured deck I've ever seen.

The System III low viscosity is twice as expensive as their standard resin. MAS is about 15% cheaper. I guess the kayak builders spend lots for their clear finish.

Good luck,

RB

[ 05-21-2004, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: RodB ]

Garrett Lowell
05-21-2004, 11:43 AM
Thanks everyone, and keep it coming. This is the first time I've heard of Bote-Cote. I have to check that out. And RodB, you have to include a pic when talk about your boat!

Garrett Lowell
05-21-2004, 11:43 AM
Thanks everyone, and keep it coming. This is the first time I've heard of Bote-Cote. I have to check that out. And RodB, you have to include a pic when talk about your boat!

Garrett Lowell
05-21-2004, 11:43 AM
Thanks everyone, and keep it coming. This is the first time I've heard of Bote-Cote. I have to check that out. And RodB, you have to include a pic when talk about your boat!

BrianY
05-21-2004, 02:07 PM
Regarding the clarity of System III and other epoxies:

Take a look at http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxtest.htm

The guy made a test panel of wood strips (as in a strip built kayak) coated it with six diffent epoxies (West, Sys. III, Raka, MAS, etc.) He then partially coated each section the test panel with spar varnish, left part of each section without varnish, and covered the remaining portion to exclude light/UV. He left the panel out in the New England weather for a year and observed how the epoxies held up. All in all, a very informative test.

BrianY
05-21-2004, 02:07 PM
Regarding the clarity of System III and other epoxies:

Take a look at http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxtest.htm

The guy made a test panel of wood strips (as in a strip built kayak) coated it with six diffent epoxies (West, Sys. III, Raka, MAS, etc.) He then partially coated each section the test panel with spar varnish, left part of each section without varnish, and covered the remaining portion to exclude light/UV. He left the panel out in the New England weather for a year and observed how the epoxies held up. All in all, a very informative test.

BrianY
05-21-2004, 02:07 PM
Regarding the clarity of System III and other epoxies:

Take a look at http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxtest.htm

The guy made a test panel of wood strips (as in a strip built kayak) coated it with six diffent epoxies (West, Sys. III, Raka, MAS, etc.) He then partially coated each section the test panel with spar varnish, left part of each section without varnish, and covered the remaining portion to exclude light/UV. He left the panel out in the New England weather for a year and observed how the epoxies held up. All in all, a very informative test.

Mike Field
05-22-2004, 08:57 AM
.
Bote-Cote (http://www.boatcraft.com.au/botecote.html)

Mike Field
05-22-2004, 08:57 AM
.
Bote-Cote (http://www.boatcraft.com.au/botecote.html)

Mike Field
05-22-2004, 08:57 AM
.
Bote-Cote (http://www.boatcraft.com.au/botecote.html)

JimD
05-22-2004, 12:09 PM
All the big names are high quality. I've used a few including West. Lately I'm partial to Raka since the 350 hardener produces next to no blush. I've never had a cratering problem with it. Also, if you'll be placing a reasonably large order Raka's bulk discounts probably make it the cheapest, too. I had it shipped to Canada from Florida and even after the poor exchange rate on the Canadian $, the shipping and brokerage fees, it was still less expensive than anything I could buy locally.

JimD
05-22-2004, 12:09 PM
All the big names are high quality. I've used a few including West. Lately I'm partial to Raka since the 350 hardener produces next to no blush. I've never had a cratering problem with it. Also, if you'll be placing a reasonably large order Raka's bulk discounts probably make it the cheapest, too. I had it shipped to Canada from Florida and even after the poor exchange rate on the Canadian $, the shipping and brokerage fees, it was still less expensive than anything I could buy locally.

JimD
05-22-2004, 12:09 PM
All the big names are high quality. I've used a few including West. Lately I'm partial to Raka since the 350 hardener produces next to no blush. I've never had a cratering problem with it. Also, if you'll be placing a reasonably large order Raka's bulk discounts probably make it the cheapest, too. I had it shipped to Canada from Florida and even after the poor exchange rate on the Canadian $, the shipping and brokerage fees, it was still less expensive than anything I could buy locally.

paul oman
05-22-2004, 02:39 PM
Do a google search for marine epoxy, marine epoxies, epoxy resins, etc. and you'll see all your options.

paul

paul oman
05-22-2004, 02:39 PM
Do a google search for marine epoxy, marine epoxies, epoxy resins, etc. and you'll see all your options.

paul

paul oman
05-22-2004, 02:39 PM
Do a google search for marine epoxy, marine epoxies, epoxy resins, etc. and you'll see all your options.

paul

RodB
05-25-2004, 03:04 PM
Garrett,

FYI

RB

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid66/paa390519a7d7ed0d96395cf94c18db53/fbdc4c9e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p9716cd3e08fa58b832719174c9cd8c47/f99c14c4.jpg

RodB
05-25-2004, 03:04 PM
Garrett,

FYI

RB

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid66/paa390519a7d7ed0d96395cf94c18db53/fbdc4c9e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p9716cd3e08fa58b832719174c9cd8c47/f99c14c4.jpg

RodB
05-25-2004, 03:04 PM
Garrett,

FYI

RB

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid66/paa390519a7d7ed0d96395cf94c18db53/fbdc4c9e.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p9716cd3e08fa58b832719174c9cd8c47/f99c14c4.jpg

Aramas
06-07-2004, 12:12 AM
I've only used Bote-Cote and West, and of the two I prefer Bote-Cote. No blush, 2:1 and compatible with just about anything. West seems overly fussy. My wood-mashing habits are somewhat less than of surgical standard.

For fillers I took the advice of local boatwrights and used colloidal silica and q-cell (expanded quartz aka microballonons), both bought in bulk. On the advice of the same boatwrights, for structural joins and fillets I used around 80/20 (by volume) colloidal silica/q-cell. The q-cell makes the mix slippery and easier to apply and get a good finish.

Aramas
06-07-2004, 12:12 AM
I've only used Bote-Cote and West, and of the two I prefer Bote-Cote. No blush, 2:1 and compatible with just about anything. West seems overly fussy. My wood-mashing habits are somewhat less than of surgical standard.

For fillers I took the advice of local boatwrights and used colloidal silica and q-cell (expanded quartz aka microballonons), both bought in bulk. On the advice of the same boatwrights, for structural joins and fillets I used around 80/20 (by volume) colloidal silica/q-cell. The q-cell makes the mix slippery and easier to apply and get a good finish.

Aramas
06-07-2004, 12:12 AM
I've only used Bote-Cote and West, and of the two I prefer Bote-Cote. No blush, 2:1 and compatible with just about anything. West seems overly fussy. My wood-mashing habits are somewhat less than of surgical standard.

For fillers I took the advice of local boatwrights and used colloidal silica and q-cell (expanded quartz aka microballonons), both bought in bulk. On the advice of the same boatwrights, for structural joins and fillets I used around 80/20 (by volume) colloidal silica/q-cell. The q-cell makes the mix slippery and easier to apply and get a good finish.