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RodB
06-19-2014, 06:19 PM
The more we find out about this the more it "stinks".....

R


Former Border Patrol Agents: Illegal Immigration Crisis "Contrived”


Thousands of illegal immigrants are flooding across the border into Texas and other border states every day, but two things distinguish this wave from earlier illegal immigration waves.
First, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans now make up about 75 percent of illegals caught in South Texas, whereas previously most people who crossed the border illegally originated in Mexico. Second, large numbers of these illegal migrants are unaccompanied children. A Reuters article on May 29 cited Obama administration estimates that 60,000 children unaccompanied by parents or relatives will pour into the United States this year, up from about 6,000 in 2011.
The situation was deemed so urgent by the Obama administration on June 2, that the White House issued a presidential memorandum directing the secretary of Homeland Security to establish an interagency “Unified Coordination Group.” The group is to be created, stated President Obama, in “Response to the Influx of Unaccompanied Alien Children Across the Southwest Border.”...


...“This flood is going to mean children dying trying to get in,” said Issa. “And more important, children coming here with the anticipation that somehow they’re going to be granted citizenship and then they will bring the rest of their family … that’s a false narrative.”
The Washington Post reported on June 12 that the sharp increase in the number of illegal migrants coming over the border over the past three months — especially in the number of children traveling without their parents — has overwhelmed the Border Patrol’s detention centers in South Texas, prompting officials to ship the children to converted warehouses and military bases as far away as California. The Post noted that during the past eight months, Customs and Border Protection has detained 47,000 unaccompanied minors, most of them in the Rio Grande Valley area of South Texas. This is an increase of 92 percent from the same period during the previous fiscal year.
“We’re fighting a losing battle right now,” said Chris Cabrera, the Border Patrol’s union representative in McAllen, Texas, as quoted in the Post. “We don’t have anywhere to hold them.”
The report noted that many of the migrants — especially women and children — are not trying to sneak into the country but are crossing the border in plain sight of Border Patrol agents. While illegal aliens from Mexico can fairly quickly be processed and sent back across the border, the situation for illegals from Central America is more complicated. The government must first clear their return with consular officials from their native country, then charter planes to fly them home. If the aliens request asylum in the United States, on the grounds that they fear persecution in their home countries, they must establish that their fears are credible.
Whether or not asylum is ultimately granted, the claim serves as a delaying tactic, often allowing the alien to remain in the United States long enough to blend in among the large numbers of “undocumented aliens."
Of course, any attempt to deal with this massive increase in illegal immigration and the notable changes in the nature of the migration — the shift from Mexico to Central America and the marked increase in unaccompanied children — must address the root causes of these changes in migration patterns. A good place to start might be to study the sheer logistics of moving thousands of underage young people — practically all of whom come from homes too poor to own motor vehicles — all the way from Central America to the U.S. border. We addressed this problem at the conclusion of our last article on this subject on June 10:
A question that we have seen no one raise, not to mention answer, is how these thousands of children from poor areas of Central America manage to find their way — en masse — about 1,800 miles through Mexico’s rough roads to arrive in south Texas. While we cannot determine who is coordinating and assisting with their efforts, it is obvious that these children did not accomplish this Herculean feat all on their own.
The next day, the National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers (NAFBPO) released a statement that utilized refreshing logic in pointing out what should be obvious to almost anyone wondering how tens of thousands of unaccompanied children could travel 1,800 on their own to a common destination:
This is not a humanitarian crisis. It is a predictable, orchestrated and contrived assault on the compassionate side of Americans by her political leaders that knowingly puts minor Illegal Alien children at risk for purely political purposes. Certainly, we are not gullible enough to believe that thousands of unaccompanied minor Central American children came to America without the encouragement, aid and assistance of the United States Government. Anyone that has taken two six to seven year old children to an amusement park can only imagine the problems associated with bringing thousands of unaccompanied children that age up through Mexico and into the United States. I doubt even the Cartels would undertake that chore at any price. No, it has to be heartless corrupt politicians and their minions lusting for more money and power.
We spoke with Andy Ramirez, a recognized national expert on border security who has testified before Congress, the California state legislature, the DHS and the DOJ. We asked Ramirez about the large numbers of unaccompanied children coming across our southern border. (U.S. Customs and Border Protection Deputy Chief, Ronald Vitiello, said in an internal memo on May 30 that border agents detained 40,000 unaccompanied children last year and they expect to apprehend 90,000 children this year, and 142,000 in 2015.)
Considering both the large numbers and the long distances involved, Ramirez stated bluntly: “There is no way this could have been done by an alien smuggling organization [ASO]. It had to have been done at a much higher level.”
Ramirez told us:
In speaking with my Border Patrol sources and given my own expertise, there is no way this flood of illegal aliens could’ve been accomplished by mere “children,” let alone small alien smuggling organizations. This is a major operation that requires logistical support, and that is well beyond snakehead capabilities. Therefore, it has to be well organized, like a military type operation, and only a government can accomplish such a thing. Given Mexico's policies when it comes to illegal immigration entry into their country, and while knowing that setting up a North American Union has never included any Central or South American nations, it would require collusion between governments.
Now keep in mind, why are most of these illegal aliens crossing into Texas? Why not Arizona? It would be easy to have pulled that off in Arizona, but to risk the numbers of minors involved would have been a death sentence. So Texas is the answer especially knowing you have media centers like Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio for coverage.
Add in the Obama administration’s refusal to enforce U.S. immigration law, and how South Texas was targeted and the quick response to move the self-reporting aliens, it's clear in connecting the dots that the Obama administration and Mexican government's are co-partners. With Congress questioning DHS (ICE and CBP) about their failure to enforce the law, this is an operation forcing amnesty by decree.
Among those questioning the Obama administration’s immigration policies is Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), who has charged that the crisis is a “direct consequence” of President Obama’s policies.“The parents think, ‘If I send my child [to the U.S.], my child will have amnesty.’ That’s what the president of the U.S. has said. It is the exact opposite of a humane approach to immigration or to securing our borders,” Cruz told Breitbart News.


The Hill reported that White House spokesman Josh Earnest dismissed Cruz’s allegations, saying he would not “put a lot of stock in the ability of Republicans members of Congress to divine the thoughts and insights of children in Central American countries.”
However, wishful thinking along on the part of Central American children did not get them to the U.S. border. As Ramirez noted, it’s a matter of logistics.

LINK: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/18473-former-border-patrol-agents-illegal-immigration-crisis-contrived

Ian McColgin
06-19-2014, 06:48 PM
Well, there's a predictably insane twist.

RodB
06-19-2014, 07:09 PM
Ian, you have to admit a lot of children got a long ways to come across our border... kinda looking "organized" ... don't you think?


R

hanleyclifford
06-19-2014, 07:18 PM
I knew from the gitgo there was more to this than met the eye - it's gonna come out, guys - maybe the next scandal; Mexigate?:D

RodB
06-19-2014, 07:20 PM
I knew from the gitgo there was more to this than met the eye - it's gonna come out, guys - maybe the next scandal; Mexigate?:D


Not bad Hanley....Y:o

RodB

Glen Longino
06-19-2014, 07:31 PM
Yep, that's the ticket...a low-down Obama plot to save the lives of innocent children!
You self-labled Christians should be ashamed of yourselves rather than slapping one another on the back!

Ian McColgin
06-19-2014, 07:34 PM
With a line like "only a government" this skreed is either claiming that Obama's policies of deporting more people than ever are somehow a plot to encourage people to send their children with some government's assistance - perhaps ours or perhaps some unnamed - for the benefit of exactly what government. There is something happening and this pile of crud is designed to prevent anyone from finding out. I don't think the author is doing that prevention as part of a conspiracy. It's just a knee jerk reaction to this president.

There are not useful facts, no clear analysis, just diffuse suspicion. One might start a hypothesis with a suspicion but without some facts it's nothing but irresponsible self-abuse.

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-19-2014, 07:42 PM
Ian, you have to admit a lot of children got a long ways to come across our border... kinda looking "organized" ... don't you think?RThere is ""organization". It comes from the Mexican government who keeps the kids on the way north because they don't want to have to deal with them.

hanleyclifford
06-19-2014, 07:43 PM
With a line like "only a government" this skreed is either claiming that Obama's policies of deporting more people than ever are somehow a plot to encourage people to send their children with some government's assistance - perhaps ours or perhaps some unnamed - for the benefit of exactly what government. There is something happening and this pile of crud is designed to prevent anyone from finding out. I don't think the author is doing that prevention as part of a conspiracy. It's just a knee jerk reaction to this president.

There are not useful facts, no clear analysis, just diffuse suspicion. One might start a hypothesis with a suspicion but without some facts it's nothing but irresponsible self-abuse. Ya gotta be patient sometimes. Often it takes weeks or months before the facts come out. In the meantime Kangaroo Court is always in session in and for the Bilge. (Remember Zimmerman?)

Ian McColgin
06-19-2014, 07:54 PM
You think a fact-free bit of nasty like the OP is somehow not a kangaroo court?

RodB
06-19-2014, 09:36 PM
You think a fact-free bit of nasty like the OP is somehow not a kangaroo court?

The truth is you really don't care what the facts are... just that your initial take on such a situation "feels right" to you and everyone else must be wrong.

RodB

Keith Wilson
06-19-2014, 09:42 PM
Yeah, we've got 300+ million people, the word's largest economy, a military that doth bestride the narrow world like a colossus, and some Guatemalan kids sneaking across the border will 'seriously damage the US'. Right. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And it was planned by the US government. Tell me about those sparkly pink unicorns again?

RodB
06-19-2014, 09:50 PM
Yeah, we've got 300+ million people, the word's largest economy, a military that bestrides the narrow world like a colossus, and some Guatemalan kids sneaking across the border will 'seriously damage the US'. Right. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And it was planned by the US government. Tell me about those sparkly pink unicorns again?

Put your money where your mouth is Keth... lots of arrogant sarcasm but no action. Why don't you and your buddies send $300 each to Texas and Arizona to defray the cost of this mess which is getting worse every day.

Its incredible that you see an ongoing problem with this nation being invaded/raped via a compassionate loophole in our laws and you don't even recognize whats gong on as a problem. How about a commonsense humanitarian solution to this problem rather than just keep watching it happen?

RodB

hanleyclifford
06-19-2014, 09:59 PM
Yeah, we've got 300+ million people, the word's largest economy, a military that bestrides the narrow world like a colossus, and some Guatemalan kids sneaking across the border will 'seriously damage the US'. Right. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And it was planned by the US government. Tell me about those sparkly pink unicorns again? I believe I will accord a little tentative credibility to former border patrol agents, and let's see where this goes in the next few weeks.

Durnik
06-19-2014, 10:02 PM
Don't look now (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national-govt-politics/sarah-palin-close-leaving-republican-party-over-im/ngMrP/), Rod.. & fer gawds sake - don't no one tell bobbys! ;-)


Sarah Palin close to leaving Republican Party over immigration

Palin posted the comments on Facebook


http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/400/img/photos/2013/02/27/1d/58/sarah_palin.jpg (http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/400/img/photos/2013/02/27/1d/58/sarah_palin.jpg)
Sarah Palin

By Skyler Cooper (http://www.krmg.com/staff/skyler-cooper/)
Palin posted the long memo last Friday out of frustration over the news of the way undocumented, unaccompanied minors are treated in Arizona.

The Department of Homeland Security started bringing young migrants to Arizona after nearly 50,000 unaccompanied children crossing the border into Texas overwhelmed U.S. Border Patrol.

Palin said the handling of the issue is, “just about driving me to renounce my Republican ties.”

Palin says too many within the GOP haven’t done enough to “stop the madness.”

enjoy
bobby

Ian McColgin
06-19-2014, 10:03 PM
Given stuff coming out about the border patrol - http://www.npr.org/2014/06/09/320220093/foi-request-sheds-some-light-on-border-patrol-shootings - I'd pay attention to actual facts rather than anecdotal musings.

Keith Wilson
06-19-2014, 10:05 PM
. . . this nation being invaded/raped . . .Be afraid. Be very afraid. Be very, very, very afraid.

RodB
06-19-2014, 10:06 PM
There are millions of folks who are sick and tired of the weak Republicans and their inability to "stop the madness".... Sarah is right on!!!!

RodB

Keith Wilson
06-19-2014, 10:33 PM
They're coming from Guatemala and Honduras, thousands of 'em, and the swarthy hordes are going to steal the pants right off your butt!! http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


http://plumpynutpress.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/guatemala_story.jpg

hanleyclifford
06-19-2014, 10:42 PM
They're coming from Guatemala and Honduras, thousands of 'em, and the swarthy hordes are going to steal the pants right off your butt!! http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


http://www.danamorris.net/Guatemala/children2.jpg The problem isn't the children themselves but rather the explanation of how and why they got here. This could be a sly plan to get many thousands of the "parents" into the country by-passing normal procedures. So far we mostly have conjecture but these kids didn't move nearly 2000 miles without someone doing some thinking and planning. I'm sure more facts will emerge soon. In the meantime we can afford a few meals and blankets (while we ready the return tickets).

Keith Wilson
06-19-2014, 10:57 PM
This could be a sly plan . . . Whose 'sly plan'? Who would benefit? Be just a little rational here, please..

Glen Longino
06-19-2014, 11:12 PM
There are millions of folks who are sick and tired of the weak Republicans and their inability to "stop the madness".... Sarah is right on!!!!

RodB

"stop the madness" ????:D

Ha! You just don't get it, Rod, crackpots like Sarah and you ARE the madness!:D
Wake up and smell the tamales, Rod, before it's too late!

Durnik
06-19-2014, 11:21 PM
This could be a sly plan...

More likely parents so desperate for a better life for their kids that they are willing to let them go & hope for compassion. Too bad Republicans don't do compassion - suspicion being far easier.


we can afford a few meals and blankets...

without a doubt.

I so wish people would get over this genes & not born here crap. There's only one human race & we're _all_ born here - there being only one earth. Christs strongest message was "help your neighbor".

‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

peace
bobby

Sky Blue
06-19-2014, 11:36 PM
For me, I just look at the photos of these young children living in border detention camps and try to imagine how desperate their parents must be to just send them off away into a very uncertain and dangerous future, with nothing, and with no idea of where they are, who they are traveling with, what is happening to them, or what will become of them.

It is unimaginable for me as a parent, and I could frankly care less about the immigration consequences of it all. This is a humanitarian disaster, and it seems that the last thing many are concerned with is the fate of these children. My heart goes out to them.

That any parent, anywhere, would allow such a thing is a crime. That any governments that come across any of these children during their journey do not immediately detain them and return them immediately to the authorities in their country of origin for redistribution back to their parents, is also a crime.

The callousness of some commentators here on this issue is very discouraging. We have in many ways forgotten who we should be, as a people, a culture and a nation.

slug
06-20-2014, 12:40 AM
Put your money where your mouth is Keth... lots of arrogant sarcasm but no action. Why don't you and your buddies send $300 each to Texas and Arizona to defray the cost of this mess which is getting worse every day.

Its incredible that you see an ongoing problem with this nation being invaded/raped via a compassionate loophole in our laws and you don't even recognize whats gong on as a problem. How about a commonsense humanitarian solution to this problem rather than just keep watching it happen?

RodB

youre gripped by paranoia.

According to the CBO.


" About 40 million foreign-born people , 13 percent of the total American population , now live in the United States. Of that group, not quite half have fulfilled the requirements of U.S. citizenship. Of the remaining people, about half are authorized to live and work in the United States, and about half are not authorized to live or work in the country. "

13 percent foriegn born is modest to low by international standards. Countries like Australia have more than 25 percent foriegn born.


The common sense humanitarian solution is for America to honour its foriegn aid responsibilities and help poor countries develope the means to provide thier citizen with a decent quality of life.

in the mean time these poor immigrants deserve attention and help.

Flying Orca
06-20-2014, 07:09 AM
There are millions of folks who are sick and tired of the weak Republicans and their inability to "stop the madness".... Sarah is right on!!!!

Izzat like the millions of people who were going to descend on Washington and throw your president out of the White House, or are you confusing millions and dozens again? :d

hanleyclifford
06-20-2014, 07:36 AM
More likely parents so desperate for a better life for their kids that they are willing to let them go & hope for compassion. Too bad Republicans don't do compassion - suspicion being far easier.



without a doubt.

I so wish people would get over this genes & not born here crap. There's only one human race & we're _all_ born here - there being only one earth. Christs strongest message was "help your neighbor".

‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

peace
bobby Although taken out of context and misapplied your quotation of Jesus is encouraging, bobby! Jesus also said, "you will always have the poor among you, and you can help them whenever you like..." As this issue develops I think balance and openmindedness is the key.

RonW
06-20-2014, 07:51 AM
Here we go again. I guess it's never wise to put away the tinfoil hat, when it's needed so frequently.

Yep, the wacky right is at it again, anything to make our beloved president look like an idiot.........

The drudge report today has articles about the disease that is becoming a major problem at the borer, TB, scabies and the list goes on and on..

And this will spread across america. Someday liberals will get it into their thick heads that there are consequences to actions, and sometime not good ones.

I am sure the conservatives will read these articles and be very concerned, but liberals move on nothing to see here but tin foil hat people........

RonW
06-20-2014, 07:59 AM
My comment was in response to this one statement:



Here we go again... a statement without ANY factual evidence to support it... a conspiracy theory devoid of anything real, and this is the basis of the C&P in the OP.

It's frankly the same damn thing as the 'Obama bribed or blackmailed John Roberts' thing: a flight of imagination, a pure fiction, without ANY substance.

Evidently, you believe in things like this. Very few others do.

Here try the front page of the drudge report as of today............Like I said above, but no you are too busy going into the attack and defend mode.........

http://www.drudgereport.com/

RonW
06-20-2014, 08:04 AM
Now why would I do that? Drudge himself admits that his accuracy rate is only 60%.

There is no attack, and nothing to defend. When people indulge in ludicrous fantasies like the one I pointed out, they simply cannot be reasoned with.

Do you have any proof on that 60% accuracy rate...I would like to see it...

ccmanuals
06-20-2014, 08:32 AM
I believe I will accord a little tentative credibility to former border patrol agents, and let's see where this goes in the next few weeks.

I have a Border Patrol agent who lives 2 doors down from me. He works out of Laredo. I'll ask him what he thinks.

RonW
06-20-2014, 08:36 AM
Let me see if I got this border crisis correct ..

The liberal version - aww look at that sweet little sixteen year old girl helping the poor little 3 year old..what a compassionate child .
And that nice young man only 17 years old and some one put tattoos all over him, he needs a good home with a father figure to guide him through life........

The conservative version -- yea well that 16 year old girl is helping the 3 year old baby, because it is her kid......
And that poor young man with all the tattoos is a M13 gang member who has raped and murdered and is smuggling drugs.

John Smith
06-20-2014, 08:46 AM
Ya gotta be patient sometimes. Often it takes weeks or months before the facts come out. In the meantime Kangaroo Court is always in session in and for the Bilge. (Remember Zimmerman?)

Good advice. Why don't you get your friends on the right to take it?

It frequently takes quit a while for the truth to come out. Meanwhile, where's the patience on the right?

John Smith
06-20-2014, 08:47 AM
Put your money where your mouth is Keth... lots of arrogant sarcasm but no action. Why don't you and your buddies send $300 each to Texas and Arizona to defray the cost of this mess which is getting worse every day.

Its incredible that you see an ongoing problem with this nation being invaded/raped via a compassionate loophole in our laws and you don't even recognize whats gong on as a problem. How about a commonsense humanitarian solution to this problem rather than just keep watching it happen?

RodB
What would YOU do with these children?

John Smith
06-20-2014, 08:48 AM
I believe I will accord a little tentative credibility to former border patrol agents, and let's see where this goes in the next few weeks.

I might have missed it, but did this say how "former" the former border patrol agents were?

RonW
06-20-2014, 08:50 AM
Congratulations! You have just managed to reduce a complex and subtle issue, down to a pair of cartoon characterizations!

There is nothing better then the basics......sometimes the truth ain't pretty...

John Smith
06-20-2014, 08:50 AM
Be afraid. Be very afraid. Be very, very, very afraid.

I cannot help but wonder how we looked when we sent people with weapons into Iraq. If we are afraid of unarmed, undernourished children, how afraid must the Iraqi people have been?

John Smith
06-20-2014, 08:54 AM
There is nothing better then the basics......sometimes the truth ain't pretty...

And we all know what assuming can do.

RonW
06-20-2014, 08:55 AM
I cannot help but wonder how we looked when we sent people with weapons into Iraq. If we are afraid of unarmed, undernourished children, how afraid must the Iraqi people have been?

And here I thought your motto was abort, abort, abort these fetuses and save the cost of having to shelter, feed, and clothe .......

So how much are you willing to pay, oh let's say monthly to support these kids ? In dollars..U.S. dollars.....

John Smith
06-20-2014, 09:01 AM
And here I thought your motto was abort, abort, abort these fetuses and save the cost of having to shelter, feed, and clothe .......

So how much are you willing to pay, oh let's say monthly to support these kids ? In dollars..U.S. dollars.....

I wouldn't mind if my taxes went up a bit, as long as Trump's went up proportionately, and the Koch's did the same.

We are under-taxed. It's creating many problems. This country is going downhill fast.

Why do you insist on misrepresenting my words? I have said, clearly, that I don't see how it is my business or your business if someone else aborts a pregnancy. That only says I support the woman's right to make that decision.

All of these kids might have been aborted if the mothers had access. These kids are born. Where is the compassion that you show for fetuses when it comes to real live after birth children?

You may not realize it, but you've proven my point. You are very concerned about the fetus, but don't give a damn about the kid.

I'd certainly rather pay to feed these kids than to invade another country. If we had paid for the two wars, feeding these kids wouldn't be a problem.

Horace
06-20-2014, 09:03 AM
When did the story of the child refugees first become public knowledge?

See what you can make of this:

"A Federal Business Opportunities request published on the FedBizOpps.gov website (http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://real-agenda.com//feed/https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=c6d7c0050b912fbc917a46d6709d38bd&tab=core&tabmode=list&=s=opportunity&mode=form&id=c6d7c0050b912fbc917a46d6709d38bd&tab=core&tabmode=list&amp) on January 29, requested Escort Services for Unaccompanied Alien Children who would cross the Mexican-American border. The document (http://beforeitsnews.com/r2/?url=http://real-agenda.com//wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Juvenile_Transport_RFI_TONY_Edits_1_29_14.pdf) said that the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), sought the services of a vendor who could effectively and efficiently transport thousands of children from the south American border to different locations inside the United States."

Rest of the story here. (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2014/06/u-s-government-expects-as-many-as-65000-immigrant-children-to-enter-the-country-2631050.html)

Offered without fact-checking; I'm busy today.

Canoeyawl
06-20-2014, 09:24 AM
Children, no problem...
"A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragout."

Keith Wilson
06-20-2014, 09:31 AM
Read the whole thing here:

A Modest Proposal (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)

For Preventing The Children of Poor People in Ireland (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)
From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)
For Making Them Beneficial to The Public (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)

"I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children."

RonW
06-20-2014, 09:33 AM
Norm -
This whole story is suspicious. For one thing, even 65,000 children, in a nation of 300 million, is hardly a threat to the sovereignty of the country, despite it being characterized that way, in a number of conservative opinion pieces. Secondly, Obama's record for deportations of illegal aliens is substantially larger than his predecessors, which makes the meme about Obama being 'soft' on immigration completely bogus.

In one of my posts on this subject, I had figures from homeland security themselves, that said 45,000 last year, 65,000 this year SO FAR with a final expected number of 90,000 for this year and a estimated number of 150,000 for next year...............

And that is more bull on deportation figures, you are not taking into account the massive amount of more coming in during this administration....

Rum_Pirate
06-20-2014, 09:36 AM
Ya gotta be patient sometimes. Often it takes weeks or months before the facts come out. In the meantime Kangaroo Court is always in session in and for the Bilge. (Remember Zimmerman?)

Where is he now?


Do you believe that (although he allegedly raised $350,000 online to pay towards his costs ) he is actually $2.5 million in debt from the trial defence costs?

PS were they 'cheap' lawyers?


George Zimmerman says he’s homeless and suffering from PTSD: report

The man who killed Trayvon Martin in February 2012 told the Spanish language station Univision that Martin threatened him and he felt his life was in danger. He said he now fears for his life but thinks he did the right thing.

BY JOEL LANDAU (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors?author=Joel%20Landau)
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Saturday, February 15, 2014, 4:56 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1615672.1392500984!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/zimmerman16n-1-web.jpg
UNIVISION
George Zimmerman says in a Univision interview that he fears for his safety.
George Zimmerman (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/George+Zimmerman) says his problems continue.
He told a Spanish language television station he is now homeless, battling post-traumatic stress disorder, more than $2 million in debt and lives in fear for his life.
Zimmerman opened up on the Univision television show "Aquí y Ahora" (http://noticias.univision.com/article/1852215/2014-02-14/aqui-y-ahora/noticias/george-zimmerman-habla-en-exclusiva-con-ilia-calderon) (Here and Now) that will air Sunday on the Spanish language station at 7 p.m.
Zimmerman also discussed his well-known struggle with 17-year-old Trayvon Martin (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Trayvon+Martin), an African-American teen who was walking in Zimmerman's neighborhood in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012.
After he called the cops, the two got into a fight that ended with Martin's death.
Zimmerman says the teen attacked him and threatened to kill him.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1615671.1392500983!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/zimmerman16n-2-web.jpg
UNIVISION
George Zimmerman says in Univision interview that he's homeless and suffering from PTSD.
"He (Martin) saw my gun and told me he would kill me, and I knew he was telling the truth. I mean, was not playing," he told the station. (http://noticias.univision.com/article/1852215/2014-02-14/aqui-y-ahora/noticias/george-zimmerman-habla-en-exclusiva-con-ilia-calderon) "I asked him to stop …. And the young man did not care. Continued attacking ... I knew he would not stop even though I knew that someone had seen (the fight) and the police are coming. He did not care."
But he didn’t answer when asked if he should have waited for the cops — saying that the case is under a federal Department of Justice investigation.
Zimmerman was acquitted of charges of second-degree murder and manslaughter in a trial in July.
The ex-neighborhood watchman said he did not think he initially shot Martin and that it went through the side of his clothes and towards a neighbor's house.
After the bullet was fired the fight with Martin stopped "immediately," he said.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1615670.1392500982!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/171546018.jpg
POOL/GETTY IMAGES
George Zimmeran says he feared for his life when he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
Asked if he still thought he had done the right thing, he said (http://noticias.univision.com/article/1852215/2014-02-14/aqui-y-ahora/noticias/george-zimmerman-habla-en-exclusiva-con-ilia-calderon), "in my mind and between God and me … I know that if I did not act the way I acted ... I would not be here."
He insisted his life was in danger during the fight with Martin.
"When you hit your head repeatedly against the concrete, you have a broken nose, eyes full of blood and tears, you're not in the position to do much,"he said. (http://noticias.univision.com/article/1852215/2014-02-14/aqui-y-ahora/noticias/george-zimmerman-habla-en-exclusiva-con-ilia-calderon)
Zimmerman said he now lives in fear that his life is in danger. He has worn a bullet proof vest and follows a safety plan when he goes out in public.
He is also $2.5 million in debt from the trial — although he raised $350,000 online to pay for his defense.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1615669.1392500981!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/usa-george-zimmerman-trayvon-trial.jpg
JOE BURBANK / POOL/EPA
Zimmerman was acquitted of murder charges in the July trial.
Of those donors he says (http://noticias.univision.com/article/1852215/2014-02-14/aqui-y-ahora/noticias/george-zimmerman-habla-en-exclusiva-con-ilia-calderon), “[To] those people I owe my freedom, because without them we could not have the experts we had, we could not have paid for the documents we [needed]."
Recently he had planned to take part in a celebrity boxing match with rapper DMX but the promoter announced last week it was canceled. He is not working and lost his health insurance.
Since the trial, he has been in the news for a variety of other matters, including a speeding ticket and a police call to his home over a domestic dispute with his wife.
"Honestly, I [would] love to live a calm life without being in the press. I’d like [to be treated like] any American citizen — have a ticket ... or an argument ... [and] not have everyone aware," he said. "But that ... that's my life and I do not understand why that is, but I'm living my life as I have always lived, " he said. (http://noticias.univision.com/article/1852215/2014-02-14/aqui-y-ahora/noticias/george-zimmerman-habla-en-exclusiva-con-ilia-calderon)

jlandau@nydailynews.com Follow on Twitter @joelzlandau (https://twitter.com/joelzlandau)

RonW
06-20-2014, 09:40 AM
Rum Pirate --
Do you believe that (although he allegedly raised $350,000 online to pay towards his costs ) he is actually $2.5 million in debt from the trial defence costs?


Sounds like a valid reason not to call 911..

Canoeyawl
06-20-2014, 09:43 AM
Read the whole thing here:

A Modest Proposal (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)

For Preventing The Children of Poor People in Ireland (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)
From Being a Burden to Their Parents or Country, and (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)
For Making Them Beneficial to The Public (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html)

"I grant this food will be somewhat dear, and therefore very proper for landlords, who, as they have already devoured most of the parents, seem to have the best title to the children."

As an attempt to explain the usage of political satire to my grandson I read some of this Proposal to him when he was about 10. I have never seen eyes open so wide! It took me a while to settle him down and explain that it was humor used to expose corruption.

Keith Wilson
06-20-2014, 10:07 AM
What does Mr. Zimmerman have to do with this?

Horace
06-20-2014, 10:23 AM
What does Mr. Zimmerman have to do with this?Not much, but you can bet that 0bama, Holder, & Co. will play the Civil Rights prosecution card when a distraction is needed.

Canoeyawl
06-20-2014, 10:26 AM
What does Mr. Zimmerman have to do with this?

He would look good on a barbeque spit...

Durnik
06-20-2014, 11:26 AM
Although taken out of context and misapplied...

No Hanley, completely in context & accurately applied. He meant for us to help whomever needed it.. WHOMEVER! & by that, we would be serving he. Why do (some? many?) Christians not understand that?



And here I thought your motto was abort, abort, abort these fetuses and save the cost of having to shelter, feed, and clothe .......

No, no - 'our motto' is educate & provide birth control where wanted.. Righties force the abortion issue by denying those (education & before the fact birth control) - which is is why we say righties have a war against women


So how much are you willing to pay, oh let's say monthly to support these kids ? In dollars..U.S. dollars.....

seems like a far better use of my taxes than this (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-iraq-war-anniversary-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314).


(Reuters) - The U.S. war in Iraq has cost $1.7 trillion with an additional $490 billion in benefits owed to war veterans, expenses that could grow to more than $6 trillion over the next four decades counting interest, a study released on Thursday said.


to the drift -





http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Keith Wilson http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4199918#post4199918)
What does Mr. Zimmerman have to do with this?


Not much, but you can bet that 0bama, Holder, & Co. will play the Civil Rights prosecution card when a distraction is needed.

Projection is a powerful force - you do realize it was a fellow righty who brought up Zimmerman, eh?


http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by hanleyclifford http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4199276#post4199276)
Ya gotta be patient sometimes. Often it takes weeks or months before the facts come out. In the meantime Kangaroo Court is always in session in and for the Bilge. (Remember Zimmerman?)


Speaking of whom

Zimmerman said (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-homeless-suffering-ptsd-report-article-1.1615673) -

"He (Martin) saw my gun and told me he would kill me, and I knew he was telling the truth. I mean, was not playing,"

Hmm, let's look rationally at that (I know, righties & hoplophiles don't do rational - this is for the rest of us), he claims Martin attacked him because he showed him his gun.. Ok, this looks like a really good reason to not carry, or at least 'show' a gun. Also, he says Martin was 'not playing'.. did he really think (I know, he didn't think, humor me) Martin would think he (Zimmerman) was 'playing' when he pulled his pistol? Of course Martin wanted to kill Zimmerman, Zimmerman just admitted he pulled the gun & threatened Martin with death - FIRST.

As I've said all along. Zimmerman was guilty of murder - but got off due to a legality.. he shot a nig..CLANG, er, black guy in a hoody.


We now return to RodB's latest irrational screed..

enjoy
bobby

RonW
06-20-2014, 11:42 AM
North Carolina: Illegal aliens commit more than seven child sex assaults per day

--During the month of May 2014, there were more than 230 charges of sex crimes against children filed against illegal aliens in the state of North Carolina. These dastardly acts which rob children of their innocence, and forever change their lives are being committed in both rural and urban areas, across the Tarheel state.

http://www.examiner.com/article/north-carolina-illegal-aliens-commit-more-than-seven-child-sex-assaults-per-day?cid=db_articles


And that is in only 1 state in 1 month..

Keith Wilson
06-20-2014, 11:56 AM
Amazing, absolutely amazing, but alas, not new.

https://historianil.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/image51.jpg


http://www.booknoise.net/letthemin/src/1903--The%20Unrestricted%20Dumping-Ground-1200wide.jpg

TomF
06-20-2014, 12:01 PM
Oh my.

If illegal aliens are committing 7 child sexual assaults per day in the state, is that each? What stamina. In contrast, how many child sexual assaults are committed by natural born citizens, eligible to be nominated for the Presidency?

For what it's worth, the CBC ran a story yesterday about a string of arrests for child porn and exploitation here in Canada ... and the difficulty in the types of investigation. Horrific, I agree - but I strongly suspect that the criminals were almost entirely Canadians, rather than illegal aliens. As were the customers.

RonW
06-20-2014, 12:09 PM
Man would those be wonderful full size prints, great wall hangers..............

And tomf. says what the hell, natural born citizens are doing it , so why not let the illegals do it to........we do have to be fair and careful as to not discriminate.....

TomF
06-20-2014, 12:22 PM
...And tomf. says what the hell, natural born citizens are doing it , so why not let the illegals do it to........we do have to be fair and careful as to not discriminate.....That's absolutely what I meant, Ron; how kind.

Everyone here knows I'm a Christian; most have figured out that I attended (and then dropped out of) a seminary too. What they can only suspect is that I dropped out because I knew I'd never be able to keep up the pace doing child sexual assaults. God knows there are some backsliding Priests out there too, who aren't keeping up with their quotas.

It's only logical that we import as many illegal alien perverts as possible, to pick up the slack.

RonW
06-20-2014, 12:38 PM
That's absolutely what I meant, Ron; how kind.

Everyone here knows I'm a Christian; most have figured out that I attended (and then dropped out of) a seminary too. What they can only suspect is that I dropped out because I knew I'd never be able to keep up the pace doing child sexual assaults. God knows there are some backsliding Priests out there too, who aren't keeping up with their quotas.

It's only logical that we import as many illegal alien perverts as possible, to pick up the slack.

So exactly what do you contribute the declining numbers of pedophile priests to.................possibly prosecution and media coverage..

elf
06-20-2014, 12:40 PM
Imagine what the hysteria is going to be like once populations start moving away from the coasts as the climate crisis picks up. This is a pretty good preview.

RonW
06-20-2014, 12:44 PM
Imagine what the hysteria is going to be like once populations start moving away from the coasts as the climate crisis picks up. This is a pretty good preview.

I know, let's assign the first 50 miles of the coastline to the illegals, and when global warming causes the oceans to rise, they will all be washed out to sea...

Ha, ha, ha, the joke will be on them..........

TomF
06-20-2014, 12:45 PM
Imagine what the hysteria is going to be like once populations start moving away from the coasts as the climate crisis picks up. This is a pretty good preview.Rising water levels obviously relate to all those illegal aliens peeing so much more than natural born citizens.

hanleyclifford
06-20-2014, 12:46 PM
No Hanley, completely in context & accurately applied. He meant for us to help whomever needed it.. WHOMEVER! & by that, we would be serving he. Why do (some? many?) Christians not understand that?




No, no - 'our motto' is educate & provide birth control where wanted.. Righties force the abortion issue by denying those (education & before the fact birth control) - which is is why we say righties have a war against women



seems like a far better use of my taxes than this (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/14/us-iraq-war-anniversary-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314).




to the drift -



Projection is a powerful force - you do realize it was a fellow righty who brought up Zimmerman, eh?



Speaking of whom

Zimmerman said (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-homeless-suffering-ptsd-report-article-1.1615673) -


Hmm, let's look rationally at that (I know, righties & hoplophiles don't do rational - this is for the rest of us), he claims Martin attacked him because he showed him his gun.. Ok, this looks like a really good reason to not carry, or at least 'show' a gun. Also, he says Martin was 'not playing'.. did he really think (I know, he didn't think, humor me) Martin would think he (Zimmerman) was 'playing' when he pulled his pistol? Of course Martin wanted to kill Zimmerman, Zimmerman just admitted he pulled the gun & threatened Martin with death - FIRST.

As I've said all along. Zimmerman was guilty of murder - but got off due to a legality.. he shot a nig..CLANG, er, black guy in a hoody.


We now return to RodB's latest irrational screed..

enjoy
bobby Sorry, bobby but you have quoted Jesus out of context and not applied the text correctly, but you shoud not feel bad about that since most in Christendom, including the so-called teachers do the same thing. The meaning of the text (Matthew 25:4) becomes clearer when viewed in context. Jesus is sitting on the Mount of Olives a few days before his death responding to a question from one of his close disciples (Matther 24:3). The ensuing answer covers chapters 24 and 25. The class of people under discussion, Jesus "bretheren" (KJV) are the anointed or "John" class, the "Bride of the Christ" prefigured by the Shulamite maiden. Beginning with the small group he was speaking to the "class" eventually grows to 144,000 (discused in other texts). That said, your original point is well made and taken and completely in character for Jesus and His Father. see Mark 14:7 and Proverbs 19:17

RonW
06-20-2014, 12:46 PM
How many are committed by citizens, in comparison?

What the hell does it matter ?? Any and all criminal activity of aliens should result in immediate deportation if not more..........

TomF
06-20-2014, 12:46 PM
So exactly what do you contribute the declining numbers of pedophile priests to.................possibly prosecution and media coverage..Exhaustion, mostly. Obviously, they can't hack the competition from illegal aliens. Perhaps the priests need better physical conditioning.

Horace
06-20-2014, 01:00 PM
Oh my.

If illegal aliens are committing 7 child sexual assaults per day in the state, is that each? What stamina. In contrast, how many child sexual assaults are committed by natural born citizens, eligible to be nominated for the Presidency?
Tom, whether that statistic is accurate--or whether you believe it or not--one thing is sure: if the illegal aliens were not in this country, it would be a non-issue.


(1) Zimmerman said "He (Martin) saw my gun and told me he would kill me, and I knew he was telling the truth. I mean, was not playing,"

(2) Hmm, let's look rationally at that (I know, righties & hoplophiles don't do rational - this is for the rest of us), he claims Martin attacked him because he showed him his gun..

(3) Ok, this looks like a really good reason to not carry, or at least 'show' a gun. Also, he says Martin was 'not playing'.. did he really think (I know, he didn't think, humor me) Martin would think he (Zimmerman) was 'playing' when he pulled his pistol?

(4) Of course Martin wanted to kill Zimmerman, Zimmerman just admitted he pulled the gun & threatened Martin with death - FIRST.So you stand by your chain of logic: that parts 2-4 of your post above derive from part 1, and lead to the daring conclusion expressed in part 5 below?

(5) As I've said all along. Zimmerman was guilty of murder - but got off due to a legality.. he shot a nig..CLANG, er, black guy in a hoody.Okey-dokey, then. :rolleyes:

RonW
06-20-2014, 01:00 PM
Exhaustion, mostly. Obviously, they can't hack the competition from illegal aliens. Perhaps the priests need better physical conditioning.

Possibly a government subsidized program, sounds like a perfect cause for liberals to pitch in on..

Keith Wilson
06-20-2014, 01:05 PM
The truth is that the research shows that crime rates (with the exception of immigration violations, obviously) are significantly lower among undocumented immigrants than the rest of the population. Really.

TomF
06-20-2014, 01:07 PM
The truth is that the research shows that crime rates (with the exception of immigration violations, obviously) are significantly lower among undocumented immigrants than the rest of the population. Really.Logical sense - there would be rather an incentive to not attract police attention...

TomF
06-20-2014, 01:09 PM
Possibly a government subsidized program, sounds like a perfect cause for liberals to pitch in on..Except that Liberals are mostly Godless, eh? The big donors for this crucial program will have to be the other guys.

hanleyclifford
06-20-2014, 01:12 PM
In Massachusetts if parents sent or permitted children to set out on a 2000 mile walk into the unknown they would be prosecuted for child endangerment, the children would be taken by DCS and the parents sent to Walpole (or Framingham) where they could make big rocks into little rocks. This of course would not apply to illegal aliens.:)

hanleyclifford
06-20-2014, 01:19 PM
If Massachusetts parents were living in the same conditions as these immigrants, with the same degree of poverty, disease, crime, and hopelessness, sending their children to some place with the faintest hope of a better life would be a heroic thing. Rather like Jo-el sending his son to earth?

RonW
06-20-2014, 01:20 PM
Except that Liberals are mostly Godless, eh? The big donors for this crucial program will have to be the other guys.

Sounds like a perfect job for the log cabin republicans..............................the tea party crowd won't talk to these guys, liberals will have to make the connection.

TomF
06-20-2014, 01:21 PM
Rather like Jo-el sending his son to earth?Alien is as alien does.

RonW
06-20-2014, 01:54 PM
If you were in the same situation, you'd do precisely the same (well, maybe not). When your children are hungry, uneducated, have no medical care, and are condemned to a life in the crime-ridden slums, you do WHATEVER you can, to help them have a better life... and most certainly, no little thing like a border is going to stop you.

At least, that is certainly what I would do, for my children, and grandchildren.

Maybe you wouldn't.

So due to their desperation, which is very real, you are willing to sacrifice your country and your fellow countrymen to accommodate them.

So why don't they spend their efforts on bettering their own country, instead of expecting others to provide for them..Sounds to me like they are not people of fortitude.

TomF
06-20-2014, 02:25 PM
So due to their desperation, which is very real, you are willing to sacrifice your country and your fellow countrymen to accommodate them.

So why don't they spend their efforts on bettering their own country, instead of expecting others to provide for them..Sounds to me like they are not people of fortitude.Sounds to me like you don't understand why people like my forbears and likely yours left Europe, and the "fortitude" it took both to live where they were before ... and to live here once they arrived.

Virtually all of the New World was settled by economic migrants, just like these folks coming across your border. And I'll note, Canada's conservative Federal government is having many of the same bouts of language that you are, while competing with all of the rest of the developed world to cream off the monied or highly skilled immigrants.

ccmanuals
06-20-2014, 02:29 PM
The face of American is changing and angry, ignorant white dudes are scared. To make matters worse, the right wing media is fueling their fears on a daily basis. This was all predictable.

RonW
06-20-2014, 02:55 PM
Sounds to me like you don't understand why people like my forbears and likely yours left Europe, and the "fortitude" it took both to live where they were before ... and to live here once they arrived.

Virtually all of the New World was settled by economic migrants, just like these folks coming across your border. And I'll note, Canada's conservative Federal government is having many of the same bouts of language that you are, while competing with all of the rest of the developed world to cream off the monied or highly skilled immigrants.

That's a lame excuse of it was done before, so why not again..

As short as a couple hundred years ago you could go to all kinds of places around the world, and set up your little happy homestead.
Even as short as a hundred years ago a lot of new countries still had easy immigration laws welcoming new comers..
Now most of the world is divided and established into countries with borders, and laws as to who can and can not enter ..and even for how long..
It is called the sovereignty of a nation..
And our politicians swear a oath to the constitution and the defense of the borders of the nation, from all violators foreign or domestic..

RonW
06-20-2014, 02:58 PM
The face of American is changing and angry, ignorant white dudes are scared. To make matters worse, the right wing media is fueling their fears on a daily basis. This was all predictable.

As I recall a picture you posted of you and your new grandbaby, showed you to be a old white man..Are you ashamed of being white ?

You and others might want to take a look around the world at countries of color and countries of whites and look who lives how, before you degrade the white race too much..

ccmanuals
06-20-2014, 03:23 PM
As I recall a picture you posted of you and your new grandbaby, showed you to be a old white man..Are you ashamed of being white ?

You and others might want to take a look around the world at countries of color and countries of whites and look who lives how, before you degrade the white race too much..

You forgot the "angry" part of which I am not. P.S. I have lived all over the world. I don't need pictures.

Donn
06-20-2014, 03:30 PM
Sounds to me like you don't understand why people like my forbears and likely yours left Europe, and the "fortitude" it took both to live where they were before ... and to live here once they arrived.



My forbears immigrated to New Netherlands in 1662. They were semi-prosperous farmers, seeking religious freedom and expanded opportunity. The two brothers, their wives and 10 children, along with several other farming families from their community came here legally, and bought farms in what is now the Flatbush area of Brooklyn.

We have a set of laws governing immigration to the US. Over a million people from other countries were granted legal resident status in 2012. If people want to move here, they can do it...legally.

Some of you seem to be implying folks should be allowed to do it illegally, as well.

wardd
06-20-2014, 03:37 PM
My forbears immigrated to New Netherlands in 1662. They were semi-prosperous farmers, seeking religious freedom and expanded opportunity. The two brothers, their wives and 10 children, along with several other farming families from their community came here legally, and bought farms in what is now the Flatbush area of Brooklyn.

We have a set of laws governing immigration to the US. Over a million people from other countries were granted legal resident status in 2012. If people want to move here, they can do it...legally.

Some of you seem to be implying folks should be allowed to do it illegally, as well.

legally according to whose legal code, the ones with the guns?

RodB
06-20-2014, 05:54 PM
What would YOU do with these children?

Glad you asked....

I'd process every one of them PDQ and also have serious talks with their governments (including stopping all funding to said governments if they did not cooperate) ... then on a weekly basis... I'd have our military planes fly to each country with processed "minor" citizens of those countries and turn them over to their governments to get them back to their parents. All children would be treated with kindness and compassion... evaluated medically and treated if necessary... but they would be returned to their country. There would be exceptions for those who made a good case that their lives were in danger in their own country...

Those over 17 would be returned to their country of origin immediately.

BTW... Hillary Clinton just yesterday when asked about this said they cannot stay here and they must be returned to their countries.

How about the following ... liberals.... perhaps you are mistaken without your teleprompter...er... I mean your leader to show you the way.



'Send them back': Hillary says wave of illegal immigrant children should be 'reunited with their families'



Hillary Clinton stunned a CNN audience on Tuesday by saying that the US should deport thousands of unaccompanied minors who have flooded the American border
'They should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who responsible adults in their families are,' she said
'Just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay,' she warned parents south of the border

A wave of children, mostly from Central America, has streamed across the US-Mexico border in recent months
Border patrol authorities process them and then release them to the Department of Health and Human Services
HHS says it reunites 85 per cent of them with family members in the US, but those adults' own immigration status is a question mark

Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that the American government should deport thousands of children who cross the border illegally into the United States.
Pressed by Christiane Amanpour during a televised CNN town hall event, the former secretary of state and possible 2016 presidential candidate bucked her political party by insisting that letting unaccompanied minors remain in the U.S. is the wrong policy to embrace.
'They should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who responsible adults in their families are,' Clinton said, 'because – there are concerns about whether all of them can be sent back, but I think all of them that can be should be reunited with their families.'
Moments later, Clinton articulated a bottom-line policy that disagrees sharply with President Obama's observable priorities.
'We have to send a clear message: Just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay,' Clinton said.


'So we don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws, or we'll encourage more children to make that dangerous journey.'

She acknowledged that 'it may be safer' for children for violence-prone nations like El Salvador and Guatemala to remain stateside, 'but that's not the answer.'
Clinton also said that the U.S. should help Mexico secure its own southern border, which abuts Guatemala and Belize, as a way to prevent under-18s from making the trip to America.

But 'first of all,' she cautioned. 'we have to provide the best emergency care we can provide. We have children 5 and 6 years old who have come up from Central America.'
The CNN audience, gathered at the Newseum in Washington, D.C., was hushed as Clinton outlined a policy that she hinted she would implement if she were

president.


Many of her other pronouncements drew wild applause from what appeared to be a partisan crowd that CNN hand-picked for the occasion.

She tried to dodge the question at first with claims that she had worked as secretary of state 'to deal with the violence in this region, to deal with border security.'
But Amanpour pressed her three times for an answer.
Through its budget for the Department of Health and Human Services, the Obama administration has tacitly acknowledged that the problem is growing quickly.
In 2011 HHS took custody of 6,775 children who entered the country illegally without accompanying parents.
That number was 13,625 in 2012 and 24,668 in 2013. The government's budget for 2014 provided for 60,000 such young border-crossers, but most estimates far exceed that anticipated number.


The federal government will spend more than $1 billion this year feeding, clothing and otherwise babysitting the children until suitable adult guardians can be found.

HHS claims 85 per cent of them are reunited with family members, but those are guardians in the United States, not in their home countries. The agency has not responded to requests for information about how many of them are themselves illegal aliens.
Few of the children are expected to return to face immigration judges, according to the nation's largest border patrolman's union.
In 2012 President Obama announced a policy intended to delay the deportation of illegal immigrants who were brought to the U.S> as children before 2007.
But in a transnational game of 'telephone,' that policy has been misinterpreted – in some cases willfully so, by 'coyotes' who make a living secretary transporting immigrants into the U.S. – to suggest that it would apply equally to newly arriving minors.


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RodB

S.V. Airlie
06-20-2014, 06:09 PM
Mexico is having a hayday! They are getting rid of the poor, the hungry, and the uneducated and sending them here to take care of. You don' see lawyers, doctors and teachers sneaking across the order.

RodB
06-20-2014, 06:13 PM
At least the border can be more secure....

RodB



Texas Takes Border Security Into Own Hands Because of Federal Inaction
Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/texas-takes-border-security-into-own-hands-because-of-federal-inaction/#m8RwHUuvBZOG80eq.99

Texas, the second largest state by population and land mass in the nation has decided to take state funded action to protect its citizens from the multitude of illegal immigrants swarming over the border. The federal government’s inaction on border control poses a huge risk to the safety and security of not just Texans, but to all Americans. Texas has had enough of the ‘hurry up and wait” attitude adopted by not just the Obama administration but by the politicians in Washington. The priorities of these politicians are skewed by political ambition and party line agendas that do little to serve the nation but often serve to get them re-elected. If current trends are any indication however, these so-called public servants may be in for a shake-up come November 2014.
In a recent joint statement by Texas Governor Rick Perry, Texas Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst and state House Speaker Joe Straus, Perry said that the state cannot “afford to wait for Washington” and he has authorized a “surge” in border patrol activities. Perry further stated that his administration (ostensibly as opposed to the Obama administration) will not “sit idly by while the safety and security of citizens are threatened.” To facilitate this Governor Perry has authorized the Department of Public Safety to spend $1.3 million in emergency spending a week to further secure the Texas border by preventing illegal crossings and apprehending illegal immigrants who do successfully slip through security.
The surge includes air support and boots on the ground and comes on the heels of the tremendous influx of not only illegal immigrants from Mexico, but also those who have come from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras hoping to cash in on the Obama administration’s reputation for extreme leniency. These illegal immigrants are referred to by border patrol as “Other than Mexican” (OTM). Currently, there are three U.S. military bases overflowing with children who have been trafficked to the U.S. by families hoping to follow and this has created a humanitarian crisis with no practical solution in sight.
Many of these young children and teenagers suffered great abuse, including sexual abuse, by their smuggling “handlers.” The Obama administration is, in part, responsible for this abuse as it is the administration’s leniency on border security that serves to encourage illegal immigrants to sneak into the country. In fact, the OTM’s seek out border patrol agents with the understanding that they will receive at least minimal care and likely will not be deported but receive “permiso” to stay in the country. According to border patrol agents, this is due to the Obama administration’s policy of granting a free pass to women OTM’s traveling with young children. They simply receive a notice to appear in court on their own recognizance, a notice that generally goes unheeded and unenforced.
In the recent statement, Lt. Gov. Dewhurst accused the federal government of “abdicating its responsibility” when it comes to securing the nation’s border and “protecting this country from consequences of illegal immigration.” He also reminded people that Texans know “how to lead in areas where Washington has failed.” Indeed Texas does have a reputation for taking matters into its own hands and the willingness to take action when action is needed. For example, Texas has some of the toughest crime laws in the nation and the state does not shirk from implementing them, including capital punishment. In addition, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbot, who is also the Republican nominee for Governor, has filed over 25 lawsuits against the Obama administration. These lawsuits have ranged from issues with Obamacare and voting rights to environmental protection issues and gun control. Abbot is often quoted as saying,

I go into the office in the morning. I sue Barack Obama, and then I go home.
The issue of border security is not just critical for the state of Texas – it is an issue of national security concern. Whether the illegal immigrants are simply men and women seeking a better life, drug cartels seeking buyers, terrorists intent on massive harm or children trafficked to America in the hopes of becoming anchors for their families, the nation remains insecure as long as the federal government declines to fully and effectively act. Texas has taken the security of the state, and by extension, the nation, into its own hands by its willingness to invest state resources into the critical issue of securing America’s borders.
Opinion By Alana Marie Burke

Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/texas-takes-border-security-into-own-hands-because-of-federal-inaction/#m8RwHUuvBZOG80eq.99

Canoeyawl
06-20-2014, 06:23 PM
So why don't they spend their efforts on bettering their own country, instead of expecting others to provide for them..Sounds to me like they are not people of fortitude.

Much like Romney and his ilk that take their money out of their country, hiding it in offshore accounts and tax shelters to avoid paying a fair share, rather than bettering their own country.
Why not indeed?

Paul Pless
06-20-2014, 06:25 PM
http://plumpynutpress.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/guatemala_story.jpg

hardened organized international criminal syndicate members scoffing at our lax border security

where the hell is joe arpaio when you really need him???

http://www.fronterasdesk.org/sites/default/files/field/image/2012/05/10/rio_fd_253Arpaio_presser_051012_06.JPG

RodB
06-20-2014, 06:34 PM
More on Texas... I'm sure you libs think Texas should just wait on the do nothing Obama administration to get into action.

RodB



Rick Perry takes military-style tack to protect Texas border from Mexican cartels


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/americas/perry-deploys-his-forces-to-protect-texas-border/2011/10/10/gIQAJs1JkL_story.html

Paul Pless
06-20-2014, 06:43 PM
Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s Ranger Reconnaissance Teams

rick perry is such a badass

PeterSibley
06-20-2014, 06:46 PM
Sounds like a perfect job for the log cabin republicans..............................the tea party crowd won't talk to these guys, liberals will have to make the connection.

Log cabin republicans ? They're the guys who eat shell fish on the Sabbath aren't they ?

Sky Blue
06-20-2014, 06:48 PM
Glad you asked....

I'd process every one of them PDQ and also have serious talks with their governments (including stopping all funding to said governments if they did not cooperate) ... then on a weekly basis... I'd have our military planes fly to each country with processed "minor" citizens of those countries and turn them over to their governments to get them back to their parents. All children would be treated with kindness and compassion... evaluated medically and treated if necessary... but they would be returned to their country. There would be exceptions for those who made a good case that their lives were in danger in their own country...

Those over 17 would be returned to their country of origin immediately.

BTW... Hillary Clinton just yesterday when asked about this said they cannot stay here and they must be returned to their countries.

RodB


+1 Rod. The President himself, thankfully, has said the same thing. These are children. Such return is in accordance with our federal laws, the state laws of entry for these children, and of course international law. I would not cut off aid. Norman's comment about sending tiny children out in today's world and through Mexico is reckless, as are the actions of their parents, which are illegal. There is nothing heroic about what they have done.

Paul Pless
06-20-2014, 06:50 PM
+1 Rod. The President himself, thankfully, has said the same thing. i bet rod's head just exploded

RodB
06-20-2014, 06:59 PM
I wanted to post this again as I added it to a past post and it needs to be front and center...



'Send them back': Hillary says wave of illegal immigrant children should be 'reunited with their families'



Hillary Clinton stunned a CNN audience on Tuesday by saying that the US should deport thousands of unaccompanied minors who have flooded the American border
'They should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who responsible adults in their families are,' she said
'Just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay,' she warned parents south of the border

A wave of children, mostly from Central America, has streamed across the US-Mexico border in recent months
Border patrol authorities process them and then release them to the Department of Health and Human Services
HHS says it reunites 85 per cent of them with family members in the US, but those adults' own immigration status is a question mark

Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that the American government should deport thousands of children who cross the border illegally into the United States.
Pressed by Christiane Amanpour during a televised CNN town hall event, the former secretary of state and possible 2016 presidential candidate bucked her political party by insisting that letting unaccompanied minors remain in the U.S. is the wrong policy to embrace.
'They should be sent back as soon as it can be determined who responsible adults in their families are,' Clinton said, 'because – there are concerns about whether all of them can be sent back, but I think all of them that can be should be reunited with their families.'
Moments later, Clinton articulated a bottom-line policy that disagrees sharply with President Obama's observable priorities.
'We have to send a clear message: Just because your child gets across the border, that doesn't mean the child gets to stay,' Clinton said.


'So we don't want to send a message that is contrary to our laws, or we'll encourage more children to make that dangerous journey.'

She acknowledged that 'it may be safer' for children for violence-prone nations like El Salvador and Guatemala to remain stateside, 'but that's not the answer.'
Clinton also said that the U.S. should help Mexico secure its own southern border, which abuts Guatemala and Belize, as a way to prevent under-18s from making the trip to America.

But 'first of all,' she cautioned. 'we have to provide the best emergency care we can provide. We have children 5 and 6 years old who have come up from Central America.'
The CNN audience, gathered at the Newseum in Washington, D.C., was hushed as Clinton outlined a policy that she hinted she would implement if she were

president.


Many of her other pronouncements drew wild applause from what appeared to be a partisan crowd that CNN hand-picked for the occasion.

She tried to dodge the question at first with claims that she had worked as secretary of state 'to deal with the violence in this region, to deal with border security.'
But Amanpour pressed her three times for an answer.
Through its budget for the Department of Health and Human Services, the Obama administration has tacitly acknowledged that the problem is growing quickly.
In 2011 HHS took custody of 6,775 children who entered the country illegally without accompanying parents.
That number was 13,625 in 2012 and 24,668 in 2013. The government's budget for 2014 provided for 60,000 such young border-crossers, but most estimates far exceed that anticipated number.


The federal government will spend more than $1 billion this year feeding, clothing and otherwise babysitting the children until suitable adult guardians can be found.

HHS claims 85 per cent of them are reunited with family members, but those are guardians in the United States, not in their home countries. The agency has not responded to requests for information about how many of them are themselves illegal aliens.
Few of the children are expected to return to face immigration judges, according to the nation's largest border patrolman's union.
In 2012 President Obama announced a policy intended to delay the deportation of illegal immigrants who were brought to the U.S> as children before 2007.
But in a transnational game of 'telephone,' that policy has been misinterpreted – in some cases willfully so, by 'coyotes' who make a living secretary transporting immigrants into the U.S. – to suggest that it would apply equally to newly arriving minors.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2660756/Send-Hillary-says-wave-illegal-immigrant-children-reunited-families.html#ixzz35E4Kvmbb
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PeterSibley
06-20-2014, 07:07 PM
I bet rod's head just exploded


Boooooom , it would have been fun to watch .:D

bobbys
06-21-2014, 12:50 AM
They keep trying because there is clearly a large number of 'adults' whose level of comprehension is comparable to that of a ten-year-old.

The evidence is all around you!



I think I just retched a little.



Those are the women who 'eat shellfish' when the mood is right.


Not a chance!.

Rocking the celebration I see.

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 05:42 AM
Rod has just found that his ideas as to what should be done about this dreadful situation gel perfectly with President Obama's , I bet he's just basking in a warm glow right now, it's nice to be on the right side sometimes.

Paul Pless
06-21-2014, 06:26 AM
Rod has just found that his ideas as to what should be done about this dreadful situation gel perfectly with President Obama's , I bet he's just basking in a warm glow right now, it's nice to be on the right side sometimes.

rod and barry sharing some afterglow :D

RodB
06-21-2014, 09:49 AM
+1 Rod. The President himself, thankfully, has said the same thing. These are children. Such return is in accordance with our federal laws, the state laws of entry for these children, and of course international law. I would not cut off aid. Norman's comment about sending tiny children out in today's world and through Mexico is reckless, as are the actions of their parents, which are illegal. There is nothing heroic about what they have done.

The Obama administration was notified about this problem many months ago... and have done nothing but stall and move these children around. I certainly have seen nothing from them that even remotely suggested that they would be sending any of these children back to their home countries. As a matter of fact their actions seem to illustrate they have no problem with these children staying in our country.

Lets see what happens... Obama has made it plain he is more and more for open borders or at a minimum ... for lax enforcement of our immigration laws simply to increase the democratic voting bloc in the future. Obama's policy communications concerning immigration are precisely one of the major causes for this increase in illegal aliens invading our country.

RodB

Ian McColgin
06-21-2014, 11:16 AM
RodB just makes stuff up. As the article below shows, the situation is actually complex and there's very good reason for the immigrant community's anger at Obama but the shift to making the border work and not stressing so much those who get in and quietly get jobs does give the righties an excuse to rage as well.


High deportation figures are misleading

BY BRIAN BENNETT, LA Times
April 1, 2014, 11:55 p.m.

WASHINGTON — Immigration activists have sharply criticized President Obama for a rising volume of deportations, labeling him the "deporter in chief" and staging large protests that have harmed his standing with some Latinos, a key group of voters for Democrats.

But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

The shift in who gets tallied helped the administration look tough in its early years but now may be backfiring politically. Immigration advocates plan protests across the country this week around what they say will be the 2 millionth deportation under Obama — a mark expected to be hit in the next few days. And Democratic strategists fret about a decline in Latino voter turnout for this fall's election.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called "voluntary returns," but which critics derisively termed "catch and release." Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement's deportation statistics.

Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom have just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.

At the same time, the administration largely ended immigration roundups at workplaces and shifted investigators into targeting business owners who illegally hired foreign workers.

"If you are a run-of-the-mill immigrant here illegally, your odds of getting deported are close to zero — it's just highly unlikely to happen," John Sandweg, until recently the acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said in an interview.

Even when immigration officials want to deport someone who already has settled in the country, doing so is "virtually impossible" because of a lengthy backlog in the immigration courts, Sandweg said. Once people who have no prior removals or convictions are placed in deportation proceedings, actually removing them from the country can take six years or more in some jurisdictions, Sandweg said.

Deportations of people apprehended in the interior of the U.S., which the immigration agency defines as more than 100 miles from the border, dropped from 237,941 in Obama's first year to 133,551 in 2013, according to immigration data. Four out of five of those deportees came to the attention of immigration authorities after criminal convictions.

Many of those convictions are related to crossing the border — the other big consequence of the change in the way border removals are handled.

A growing number of people caught trying to cross the border now have a formal deportation order on their records. Entering the country without legal authorization is not a crime. But once a person has been deported, he can be prosecuted if he reenters the country.

The policy of deporting border crossers and then prosecuting people who reenter has increased the number of immigrants charged in federal court. In 1992, immigration offenses accounted for 5% of federal convictions. In the subsequent two decades, the share of immigration cases on the federal docket increased sixfold, according to a study by the Pew Research Center.

In 2012, immigration offenses made up 30% of federal convictions, second only to drug cases, which made up one-third.

The new system has criminalized immigration violations, notes Chris Newman, legal director for the National Day Laborer Organizing Network, based in Los Angeles.

Immigration activists have pressured Obama to use his executive authority to stop deporting immigrants with close family ties in the U.S. and no criminal history other than immigration-related violations.

Deportations at the border can have an impact on families living within the U.S., said Doris Meissner, who headed the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service from 1993 to 2000. An increasing portion of people illegally crossing the border today have lived in the U.S. before and have long-standing links to U.S. communities, she said.

"People trying to get back are increasingly people who have roots in the U.S.," Meissner said.

The administration's move to step up deportations at the border coincided with increased hiring of agents and spending on border security. In 2010, Congress approved a $600-million infusion to add border agents and new surveillance technology. There are now more than 21,000 Border Patrol agents on the border, twice the number of a decade ago.

During the first two years after coming to office, Obama administration officials touted the record-setting deportation figures, hoping that strict enforcement at the border would convince Republicans to come to the negotiating table on immigration reform.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano was "crowing" about the increasing deportations, said Marshall Fitz, an immigration expert at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank in Washington.

The Homeland Security Department "was patting itself on the back for reaching these record numbers," Fitz said. "I think they thought it was important to show they were very serious about this."

Sandweg, the former acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, rejected the suggestion that political objectives drove deportation policy. By handing detainees over to immigration officials for deportation, rather than processing them directly, Border Patrol agents could spend more time on patrol, he said.

"From Day One we were following a policy that would emphasize public safety and border security," Sandweg said.

But regardless of motivation, the shift had the effect of emphasizing the administration's enforcement efforts, which over time has angered Latino activists and their allies in the U.S. labor movement.

Meanwhile, the change in enforcement does not seem to have placated Republican lawmakers, who are tough opponents of the administration's border policies.

The turn away from deporting immigrants from the interior of the country amounts to an open invitation for people to come to the U.S. on a legal visa and stay, said Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.).

"It just cannot be the policy of the U.S. that if somebody gets past the border and gets to St. Louis or Memphis or Austin, Texas, or New York, they are not going to be deported," Sessions said. "The administration is systematically failing to enforce immigration law uniformly."

brian.bennett@latimes.com

RodB
06-21-2014, 11:22 AM
=Ian McColgin;4201035]RodB just makes stuff up. As the article below shows, the situation is actually complex and there's very good reason for the immigrant community's anger at Obama but the shift to making the border work and not stressing so much those who get in and quietly get jobs does give the righties an excuse to rage as well.



Wrong again Ian... I saw two different Border Patrol sources (one was head of a union organization) who said they had been communicating with the INS and the Obama administration for months with no response... and only recently they has ICE (or Homeland security) started to fly and bus the illegals around the country.

Stop making up stuff.

Your post is informative though... thanks...




But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.





On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

The shift in who gets tallied helped the administration look tough in its early years but now may be backfiring politically. Immigration advocates plan protests across the country this week around what they say will be the 2 millionth deportation under Obama — a mark expected to be hit in the next few days. And Democratic strategists fret about a decline in Latino voter turnout for this fall's election.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called "voluntary returns," but which critics derisively termed "catch and release." Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement's deportation statistics.

Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom have just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.

At the same time, the administration largely ended immigration roundups at workplaces and shifted investigators into targeting business owners who illegally hired foreign workers.

"If you are a run-of-the-mill immigrant here illegally, your odds of getting deported are close to zero — it's just highly unlikely to happen," John Sandweg, until recently the acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said in an interview.


But regardless of motivation, the shift had the effect of emphasizing the administration's enforcement efforts, which over time has angered Latino activists and their allies in the U.S. labor movement.

Meanwhile, the change in enforcement does not seem to have placated Republican lawmakers, who are tough opponents of the administration's border policies.

The turn away from deporting immigrants from the interior of the country amounts to an open invitation for people to come to the U.S. on a legal visa and stay, said Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.).

"It just cannot be the policy of the U.S. that if somebody gets past the border and gets to St. Louis or Memphis or Austin, Texas, or New York, they are not going to be deported," Sessions said. "The administration is systematically failing to enforce immigration law uniformly."
RodB

Ian McColgin
06-21-2014, 02:16 PM
When you apply selective emphasis you may also be hiding such points as:

"Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records."

It is flat out true that Obama is deporting more than Bush or anyone before. It's also true that he inflates the amount of that increase every time a comparison is made between now and before Bush changed the border policy.

The total resourses are limited by the budget and the administration's job is to do the best they can. Obama clearly believes that it's better to deal with illegal immigration at the border by making the consequences of a repeat try more severe. It's not so cost effective, in his view, to go through the process of finding, charging, adjudicating and finally deporting people who have made it into the nation and are not attracting the attention of the law.

Reasonable people can disagree with that balance but for so long as resourses remain at the level congress has set something will not get done. Which means that people so inclined can use whatever is not being done can be used to club the president.

Canoeyawl
06-21-2014, 02:23 PM
Not to mention the expense of an Iron Curtain.

S.V. Airlie
06-21-2014, 02:23 PM
So kids between 2 and 13 are finger printed?

Canoeyawl
06-21-2014, 02:38 PM
So kids between 2 and 13 are finger printed?

Sure, they do that at public schools these days. Standard procedure.

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 06:20 PM
Rod has just found that his ideas as to what should be done about this dreadful situation gel perfectly with President Obama's , I bet he's just basking in a warm glow right now, it's nice to be on the right side sometimes.


The Obama administration was notified about this problem many months ago... and have done nothing but stall and move these children around. I certainly have seen nothing from them that even remotely suggested that they would be sending any of these children back to their home countries. As a matter of fact their actions seem to illustrate they have no problem with these children staying in our country.

Lets see what happens... Obama has made it plain he is more and more for open borders or at a minimum ... for lax enforcement of our immigration laws simply to increase the democratic voting bloc in the future. Obama's policy communications concerning immigration are precisely one of the major causes for this increase in illegal aliens invading our country.

RodB


See, perfect agreement !

RonW
06-21-2014, 08:27 PM
See, perfect agreement !

Since we are having a perfect agreement, why don't you tell us about this..........

---As immigration becomes increasingly problematic for the Australian government, Prime Minister Tony Abbott is launching a program that would pay refugees to return home. The payments vary depending on country of origin and the Australian government would pay for the return trip.

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, Abbott's government is concerned with huge numbers of refugees waiting for entry into Australia in detention centers in Oceania -- particularly, in Nauru and on Manus Island. The numbers are so high that the government is hoping many will prefer to return to their home countries than continue waiting in line to be allowed legally into Australia. The return trip would take them out of their detention center and to the Hideaway Hotel in Papua New Guinea's capital, Port Moresby, before being flown back home. It is an entirely voluntary process, according to the government.

The government is launching the program with the help of the International Organization for Migration, which would fund their stays in Port Moresby. The government would offer them extra payments to return, however. By country, the newspaper breaks down the offers in Australian dollars:


-------Lebanese asylum seekers are offered $10,000 to voluntarily return to Lebanon. Iranians are offered $7000, Afghans $4000 and Nepalese, Burmese and Sudanese asylum seekers are all offered $3300. ------

The Abbott government has spent the past year working to overhaul the nation's immigration system. In May, the government announced that it would create a new border protection agency run by civilian administrators that would use resources from customs and immigration, streamlining spending and helping fend off the growing budget crisis in that nation. The group includes the Australian Border Force, which would handle illegal immigration and potential terrorist infiltration.

The camps developed to handle the significant influx of immigrants made headlines earlier this year when the Australian Human Rights Commission released a report in which it noted that children trapped in these centers were "visibly distressed" and referred to the camps as "hell," demanding to leave. The need to vacate the camps and provide more comfortable detention centers promoted the solution to pay illegal refugees to send them back home rather than detain them indefinitely.

The new camps were challenged in Australian courts by an Iranian refugee who demanded to be allow into Australia. The nation's highest court ruled having an intermediate country to process refugees, as is the case with Papua New Guinea, does not violate any immigration laws.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/06/20/Australia-Offering-Refugees-up-to-9-300-to-Return-Home

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 08:36 PM
Ah ! Our TP inspired mob of right wingers have decided that instead of honouring the Refugee Convention to which we are a signatory they will attempt to bribe refugees to return to the countries they have fled from, along with keeping them in tents on tropical islands with 100F heat and 90 % humidity in indefinite detention and behind barb wire. The government (and to be fair the opposition) are wriggling and turning in a desperate attempt to get that terribly important racist, refugee hater vote.

Australia's obligations are clear under the Refugee Convention but the colour of the current round of refugee applicant doesn't appeal .... thus strategic racism, delightfully subtle or not.

RonW
06-21-2014, 08:54 PM
Ah ! Our TP inspired mob of right wingers have decided that instead of honouring the Refugee Convention to which we are a signatory they will attempt to bribe refugees to return to the countries they have fled from, along with keeping them in tents on tropical islands with 100F heat and 90 % humidity in indefinite detention and behind barb wire. The government (and to be fair the opposition) are wriggling and turning in a desperate attempt to get that terribly important racist, refugee hater vote.

Australia's obligations are clear under the Refugee Convention but the colour of the current round of refugee applicant doesn't appeal .... thus strategic racism, delightfully subtle or not.

So this is all based on racist right wingers of australia ?

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 08:56 PM
Yep.

RonW
06-21-2014, 08:58 PM
Yep.

So you guys are like us and don't want to share with no furriners..............hmmm......

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 10:34 PM
So you guys are like us and don't want to share with no furriners..............hmmm......

No, our right wing racists are like you and don't want to share . You kinda walked into that one.

RonW
06-21-2014, 10:40 PM
No, our right wing racists are like you and don't want to share . You kinda walked into that one.

Well good for them......

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 10:51 PM
Can I take that as an admission ?

RonW
06-21-2014, 10:59 PM
Can I take that as an admission ?

That I agree with your government paying the illegals to leave................NO

I say nab them and give them the boot, with no payola........

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 11:10 PM
Ron, listen/read, think ....then type . They are NOT illegal under the Refugee Convention.

RonW
06-21-2014, 11:14 PM
Ron, listen/read, think ....then type . They are NOT illegal under the Refugee Convention.

What treasonous idiotic politician wrote a refugee convention bill giving them rights ?

Ian McColgin
06-21-2014, 11:17 PM
RonW is not aware of the fact that refugees are different from people leaving a bad economy for a better one.

wardd
06-21-2014, 11:26 PM
ron would have gleefully sent jews back to germany

RonW
06-21-2014, 11:29 PM
ron would have gleefully have sent jews back to germany

You are correct.........they all would have been sent back to country of origin....And there would be no middle east crisis .......

PeterSibley
06-21-2014, 11:39 PM
You are correct.........they all would have been sent back to country of origin....And there would be no middle east crisis .......

Good grief Ron . Even from you !!! 6 million dead and you'd happy been happy with that outcome .... in full hindsight.

I hope your level of morality it rare in the US .

RonW
06-21-2014, 11:46 PM
Good grief Ron . Even from you !!! 6 million dead and you'd happy been happy with that outcome .... in full hindsight.

I hope your level of morality it rare in the US .

Really, where do you get your figures from.....my morality is that all those freed by U.S. from concentration camps, which where more then in just germany would have been sent back to their country of origin and town of origin instead of being given something by the U.S. that the U.S. had no right to give..

So how many lives would have been saved over the last 50 years in the middle east if there was no Israel and gee how much money would we the taxpayers of america saved if they didn't build them a military and give them billions of dollars every year to be the snobs and bullies of the middle east.......

No I ain't the least bit ashamed to tell the truth..........

wardd
06-21-2014, 11:50 PM
seems ron missed my meaning

RonW
06-21-2014, 11:52 PM
seems ron missed my meaning

I never seen where you have a meaning..........

Ian McColgin
06-22-2014, 12:03 AM
RonW remains ignorant of The Convention relating to the Status of Refugees (CRSR), of the dates of it's first and second signings, and of the founding of the State of Israel. Or perhaps he is but he has a magical time-transcendent view of history. Maybe he's descended from one of the waves of Europeans in America whose spawn really should by his logic be sent back to Europe.

PeterSibley
06-22-2014, 01:28 AM
Ron, thank you for displaying your sensibility, it's not something I have witnessed before . It adds to my experience of human possibility.

PeterSibley
06-22-2014, 03:28 AM
Israel was a direct response by the victors in WW2, a sign of massive remorse for failing to let in the refugees and failing to stop the atrocities.

Had the refugees been accepted that many less would have died . The xenophobic racism of our forefathers sentenced hundreds of thousands to death by the Nazis and thus the Refugee Convention was signed.

PeterSibley
06-22-2014, 04:20 AM
That guilt was entirely justified, the anti Semitism around the world wasn't the sole property of the Nazis ..... but had our forefathers not been so xenophobic and had done their best to help European Jews that guilt would not have been there and Israel would not have been established .

Keith Wilson
06-22-2014, 08:14 AM
What treasonous idiotic politician wrote a refugee convention bill giving them rights ?Read all about it, buckaroo: The 1951 Convention on the Status of Refugees (http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49da0e466.html) and the protocol updating and expanding it in 1967, signed and ratified by the US, and hence the law of the land for most of your lifetime.

The idea of protecting refugees is neither treasonous nor idiotic, but international law accepted by almost every country in the worlds. It's also one minimal standard of basic human decency, even though some cruel xenophobic barbarians may argue otherwise.

Ian McColgin
06-22-2014, 08:47 AM
Founding Israel was in many ways complicated, but it was not founded by the western democracies moving Jewish refugees to the area. Most of the post war immigration was the illegal "Aliyah Bet". And send them back? What ahistorical racist fantacy built on willful ignorance. Like send them back to Poland's Kielce Pogrom.

I am very critical of the rightwing racist policies of the the current Israeli government but that does not blind me to the facts of history. Pretending that refugees and the international community's inadequate efforts to regularize and humanize how people subject to amazing horror are treated have diddly to do with the issues of migration, legal and illegal, in search of a better life is not just stupid. It's vile racism and does not belong in this discussion.

There's enough racism creeping in to the issues of regular old migration anyway. And that's been true domesticly even though no laws were broken, like the great black migration out of the rural South to northern urban centers.

I'm unpersuaded by all the programs for immigration "reform" but what I believe is not going to happen. Coud we but have national and international reform of corporate governance, then we actually could have non-exploitive development around the world and the reasons for migration would become more a matter of interest and personal ambition and less a matter of economic compulsion. Ah well.

Durnik
06-22-2014, 09:31 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by RodB http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4200346#post4200346) Glad you asked....

I'd process every one of them PDQ and also have serious talks with their governments (including stopping all funding to said governments if they did not cooperate) ...



Always the stick - never the carrot. How about the U.S. start sharing meaningfully with nations it profits from interactions with - & require those nations to better the lives of its citizens in exchange for the largess? Helping people find a good life where they live would dramatically decrease the number who braved extreme difficulties to find a better life, eh?

I know, I know - "We're a Christian Nation" - 'Spare the rod, spoil the child' has greater meaning than ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

& Hanley - it's still in context - regardless the twisting organized religion has given it.

peace
bobby

hanleyclifford
06-22-2014, 10:00 AM
Always the stick - never the carrot. How about the U.S. start sharing meaningfully with nations it profits from interactions with - & require those nations to better the lives of its citizens in exchange for the largess? Helping people find a good life where they live would dramatically decrease the number who braved extreme difficulties to find a better life, eh?

I know, I know - "We're a Christian Nation" - 'Spare the rod, spoil the child' has greater meaning than ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

& Hanley - it's still in context - regardless the twisting organized religion has given it.

peace
bobby To be sure "organized" religion has twisted many texts from the Bible, but you are not in a position to untwist them since you are not studying the Bible. You do better with advice about how we should interfere with the internal policies of other countries. BTW, how about that Hillary wanting to send those poor things back home? Guess sooner or later we all become panderers, eh?

Arizona Bay
06-22-2014, 10:28 AM
Revealed religions are suspect.
National borders are absurd.

Durnik
06-22-2014, 10:41 AM
...but you are not in a position to untwist them since you are not studying the Bible

Don't need to study 'the bible', just need to study Christ. Just as organized religions claim of ownership of Christ is wrong, so too is their claim that _all_ the books of 'the bible' are critical - except we don't stone people who touch the skin of a pig anymore.. yadda, yadda. Christ's teachings stand quite well on their own - which one can only know by 'stepping outside the box of religion'. & you are so certain of my life? Hmm.. don't recall personal interaction with you.. ;-)

As for Hillary, I've often stated she's a conservative, I dislike & distrust her - & she's likely the best bet to knock the feet out from under the tea baggers. 'Course, if you 'knew' me, you'd know that.

& you've become a panderer? Sorry to hear that.. but I hold strong! ;-)

eta: Yeah, Greg!

enjoy
bobby

hanleyclifford
06-22-2014, 11:07 AM
Revealed religions are suspect.
National borders are absurd. Deliberate ignorance seeks it's level.

hanleyclifford
06-22-2014, 11:09 AM
Don't need to study 'the bible', just need to study Christ. Just as organized religions claim of ownership of Christ is wrong, so too is their claim that _all_ the books of 'the bible' are critical - except we don't stone people who touch the skin of a pig anymore.. yadda, yadda. Christ's teachings stand quite well on their own - which one can only know by 'stepping outside the box of religion'. & you are so certain of my life? Hmm.. don't recall personal interaction with you.. ;-)

As for Hillary, I've often stated she's a conservative, I dislike & distrust her - & she's likely the best bet to knock the feet out from under the tea baggers. 'Course, if you 'knew' me, you'd know that.

& you've become a panderer? Sorry to hear that.. but I hold strong! ;-)

eta: Yeah, Greg!

enjoy
bobby Really, bobby; you are out of your zone here. Most of the information we have about the Christ is to be found in the Bible.

Arizona Bay
06-22-2014, 11:11 AM
Deliberate ignorance seeks it's level.
Did someone tell you that? :D

RodB
06-22-2014, 11:21 AM
Always the stick - never the carrot. How about the U.S. start sharing meaningfully with nations it profits from interactions with - & require those nations to better the lives of its citizens in exchange for the largess? Helping people find a good life where they live would dramatically decrease the number who braved extreme difficulties to find a better life, eh?

I know, I know - "We're a Christian Nation" - 'Spare the rod, spoil the child' has greater meaning than ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

& Hanley - it's still in context - regardless the twisting organized religion has given it.

peace
bobby

You seem to forget that the good old USA has and continues to do plenty for hundreds of nations on the planet financially... Tell me...why can't we just enforce our immigration laws... you act like unfettered immigration has no negative effects on our nation. How about our politicians just do their jobs and look out for whats best for America? Legal immigration is what needs to be the norm... don't you agree?

RodB

ccmanuals
06-22-2014, 11:35 AM
Didn't George Bush tell us his 2.5 billion dollar border fence would solve this problem?

RodB
06-22-2014, 11:36 AM
Didn't George Bush tell us his 2.5 billion dollar border fence would solve this problem?


You didn't answer my question...

RodB

slug
06-22-2014, 12:41 PM
You seem to forget that the good old USA has and continues to do plenty for hundreds of nations on the planet financially... Tell me...why can't we just enforce our immigration laws... you act like unfettered immigration has no negative effects on our nation. How about our politicians just do their jobs and look out for whats best for America? Legal immigration is what needs to be the norm... don't you agree?

RodB


Prove it.

show me the numbers.

Not the trillions the US has spent destroying countries....development assistance only.

http://s29.postimg.org/wewr8ymuv/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload without registration (http://postimage.org/)

elf
06-22-2014, 02:02 PM
Most of the information we have about the Christ is to be found in the Bible.
Considering the scholarship now available on the books of the "new Testament", this comment is beyond ludicrous.

hanleyclifford
06-22-2014, 03:36 PM
Considering the scholarship now available on the books of the "new Testament", this comment is beyond ludacris. Perhaps I should have qualified that with "reliable". It is your so-called "scholarship" that is ludicrous. (note spelling of "ludicrous")

Keith Wilson
06-22-2014, 03:44 PM
It is your so-called "scholarship" that is ludicrous.And with a blithe wave of his hand, he dismisses the entire last two hundred years of biblical scholarship, including all historical criticism. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Durnik
06-22-2014, 06:53 PM
You seem to forget that the good old USA has and continues to do plenty for hundreds of nations on the planet financially... Tell me...why can't we just enforce our immigration laws... you act like unfettered immigration has no negative effects on our nation. How about our politicians just do their jobs and look out for whats best for America? Legal immigration is what needs to be the norm... don't you agree?

RodB

Slug called it, I've forgotten nothing - U.S. aid is 'heavily biased' toward military/social/business tools used predominantly to keep citizens of recipient countries marginalized. My point was to use it for exactly the opposite purpose.

I do not "act like unfettered immigration has no negative effects on our nation" - &, to totally confound you, I feel the borders between nations (esp Canada/U.S./Mexico) should be essentially open having only cursory checks for serious contraband (hard drugs/weapons/dangerous flora/fauna) - kind of like the way it used to be in the years (well?) preceding Sept 11th, 2001. If the reasons for the high number of peoples desiring immigration were addressed (see my post you responded to), the numbers would fall - & we might find some U.S.A.ians wished to emigrate as balance. People should not be treated essentially as 'property' or a 'resource' of the country in which they were born.

However, the U.S. & their colonial puppets insist on creating & maintaining the 1%/99% unbalance. So it goes.

As for "why can't we just enforce our immigration laws" - they are designed to punish those most unfortunate & reward those most fortunate - something I (& seemingly Christ) can't get behind.


An aside - wondering - it's been years since I drove (or flew) across a border. When did the U.S. start the hardening of Canadian & Mexican borders. I know in the late 70's, Canadian access was a simple stop & declare short term visit.

peace
bobby

RodB
06-22-2014, 06:56 PM
Slug called it, I've forgotten nothing - U.S. aid is 'heavily biased' toward military/social/business tools used predominantly to keep citizens of recipient countries marginalized. My point was to use it for exactly the opposite purpose.

I do not "act like unfettered immigration has no negative effects on our nation" - &, to totally confound you, I feel the borders between nations (esp Canada/U.S./Mexico) should be essentially open having only cursory checks for serious contraband (hard drugs/weapons/dangerous flora/fauna) - kind of like the way it used to be in the years (well?) preceding Sept 11th, 2001. If the reasons for the high number of peoples desiring immigration were addressed (see my post you responded to), the numbers would fall - & we might find some U.S.A.ians wished to emigrate as balance. People should not be treated essentially as 'property' or a 'resource' of the country in which they were born.

However, the U.S. & their colonial puppets insist on creating & maintaining the 1%/99% unbalance. So it goes.

As for "why can't we just enforce our immigration laws" - they are designed to punish those most unfortunate & reward those most fortunate - something I (& seemingly Christ) can't get behind.


An aside - wondering - it's been years since I drove (or flew) across a border. When did the U.S. start the hardening of Canadian & Mexican borders. I know in the late 70's, Canadian access was a simple stop & declare short term visit.

peace
bobby

Perhaps after scores of years of millions coming in illegally... and the cost of same... the nation is slowly realizing the cost to our economy and our society.

RodB

Durnik
06-22-2014, 07:30 PM
I'd rather that after scores of years of 1%/99%, people would realize _that_, not the 'other' poor, is the 'cost to our economy & our society' - but with FOX preaching otherwise, it ain't gonna happen.

BTW, 'millions' - plural?

enjoy
bobby

RodB
06-22-2014, 10:44 PM
Had to post this again....

RodB





How the left wants to handle tens of thousands of children illegally entering the USA



By Bill O'Reilly




Today the "New York Times" a liberal standard bearer in this country ran an editorial entitled "Innocence at the Border". Basically the "Times" saying that the Obama administration should provide massive humanitarian aid for about 50,000 children who have illegally entered the U.S.A. since last fall and the hundreds more who come every single day. The "Times" admits the Obama administration caught by surprise by the border surge but describes the children and some of their parents as refugees. That's the headline.
Liberal America trying to convince us that poor people in Central America, Mexico and everywhere else are fleeing economic oppression therefore they are refugees. Therefore, we have to accept them. Pretty much support them for years. And allow them to stream across the border at will.
The left points out, this is humane and Christian. That's true. Accepting poor people fleeing American governments is how America came of age. And compassion for the downtrodden is a hallmark of Judeo-Christian philosophy.

But the harsh reality is. We cannot support all the world's poor. It's impossible. And since the Obama administration cannot control the southern border, the USA is now facing a crisis. Already, the states of Texas and Arizona are being hammered. They don't have the resources to handle all of these children and many of their parents.

Arizona may sue the federal government over the situation. "Is It Legal" will have that story coming up. For years some on the left have wanted open borders like they have in Europe. But the massive welfare state that goes along with supporting poor migrants would break this nation financially.
We already owe more than $17 trillion. Look, most of these kids and their parents can't speak English, have little education, and few skills -- how are they going to compete in our competitive marketplace here? How? The answer is they are not going to compete. And it will take decades for most of them to be self-sufficient.
So we are creating an under class of people, totally dependent on American taxpayers who are already under siege from every direction. The immigration crisis could very well damage the entire infrastructure of America. There is no question about it.
Now, because I just laid that all out for you I'm going to be attacked by the left. I will be called all kinds of names. I hate the poor. I'm the devil -- whatever. But I'm telling you the truth. In our Judeo-Christian tradition we are compelled to help the poor. We are. But we cannot destroy the fabric of the nation, granting refugee status to everyone who wants it. There are simply too many in this world who are oppressed.
And that's "The Memo."

PeterSibley
06-22-2014, 10:46 PM
But, but Rod, you're as one with Obama on this one !

RodB
06-22-2014, 10:48 PM
I said... process and ship back to their country ASAP...

R

PeterSibley
06-22-2014, 10:50 PM
Yep, you're on the same page . Congratulations .

RonW
06-23-2014, 04:52 PM
And more info on these so called kids..............


Meanwhile, another major Guatemalan newspaper, El Periódico, reports that among the initial 1,000 Central American minors housed at Lackland Air Force base in Texas, two thirds-are from Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras, while 12% are Mexican. About 80% of the minors housed at the base are male, and 83% are over age 14.

Instead of discouraging the wave of illegal child immigrants headed toward the U.S. border, major media outlets in Central America are encouraging the phenomenon in recent news coverage.

In a June 9 report, La Prensa Libre, one of Guatemala's leading dailies, reports that the U.S. Department of Homeland Secruity will not deport minors from countries that do not share a border with the U.S. Elsewhere, the same newspaper quotes Guatemalan Foreign Minister Fernando Carrera as saying that his country has an agreement with U.S. authorities that Guatemalan children will not be deported unless they are accompanied by an adult.

In a June 17 report on Vice President Joe Biden's upcoming visit to the Central American country, La Prensa Libre cites Carrera as saying that in two weeks, the country will launch a public information campaign to discourage the child immigrant wave. According to Carrera, the campaign will be aimed at parents, and will focus on making parents aware of the dangers children face in making the border crossing. Carrera did not mention if the campaign will also include communicating that it is U.S. policy to deport illegal immigrants of any age.

In its June 17 edition, the newspaper also highlights Democrat-sponsored legislation in New York State that would grant voting rights, health care and university scholarships to the state's millions of illegal immigrants. The New York is Home Act, sponsored by state senator Gustavo Rivera (D-Bronx) and state assemblyman Karim Camara (D-Brooklyn) would provide the benefits of citizenship to all undocumented immigrants who can demonstrate three or more years of residence in the state of New York.

On a similar note, the newspaper also reports on Guatemalan President Otto Pérez-Molina's plans to ask the Obama Administration to extend temporary protected status to all illegal immigrants from Guatemala who arrived in the U.S. prior to 2011.

Other major Central American media outlets reporting on the child illegal immigrant wave, such as La Prensa Gráfica in El Salvador and La Prensa in Honduras, have also highlighted the Obama administration's announcement last week of additional "free legal services" for undocumented minors who illegally cross the U.S. border. "We're taking a historic step to strengthen our justice system and protect the rights of the most vulnerable members of society," U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said upon announcing the aid.

http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/craig-bannister/central-american-media-promote-illegal-child-immigrant-tsunami-give-tips