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John Smith
05-16-2014, 02:18 PM
Saw a small piece that Putin will end our access to the space station by 2020.

Now, maybe, I'll have some company in being disturbed by us having to buy a ticket to get there.

genglandoh
05-16-2014, 02:22 PM
Here is the story

Russia casts doubt on US' future with the ISS over Ukraine sanctions
The head of Russia’s space program says Moscow will reject the United States’ request to use the International Space Station beyond 2020 – the latest twist in a standoff between the two countries over the ongoing crisis in Ukraine.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/05/13/russia-casts-doubt-on-us-future-with-iss-over-ukraine-sanctions/

CWSmith
05-16-2014, 02:32 PM
There is a new US vehicle under development, but I don't know when it goes into production.

This whole thing is a great example of bad management and I regret it can be traced back to a disconnect between Congress and NASA. The greatest enemy to any large effort is the start and stop and start and stop of inconsistent management and budget.

BrianY
05-16-2014, 02:46 PM
OK, so let's pull all technical support for the ISS and let the Russians do it all...until the thing falls to earth.

Gerarddm
05-16-2014, 03:13 PM
Saw a small piece that Putin will end our access to the space station by 2020.



Not if Elon Musk has anything to say about it.

Anyway, didn't one of their Proton-M rockets blow up ( again ) today?

Tom Montgomery
05-16-2014, 03:24 PM
OK, so let's pull all technical support for the ISS and let the Russians do it all...until the thing falls to earth.
NOW you're talking! ;)

I'm on record as regarding the entire project as a boondoggle.

Nicholas Scheuer
05-16-2014, 04:07 PM
So next time a Russian Submarine sinks at sea, and the hint that it would be nice if a USA Bathysphere came to the rescue, Obama say say "RESCUE THIS". Evidently Putin isn't aware that WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

CWSmith
05-16-2014, 04:11 PM
I'm on record as regarding the entire project as a boondoggle.

Bingo! I still don't know what it has done. They promised everything and have delivered nothing.

johnw
05-16-2014, 04:11 PM
So next time a Russian Submarine sinks at sea, and the hint that it would be nice if a USA Bathysphere came to the rescue, Obama say say "RESCUE THIS". Evidently Putin isn't aware that WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

Because they won't let us keep participating in a boondoggle, you'd let sailors die?

The fact is, we're not Russian, we would save those sailors.

seanz
05-16-2014, 04:41 PM
Saw a small piece that Putin will end our access to the space station by 2020.

Now, maybe, I'll have some company in being disturbed by us having to buy a ticket to get there.


That's why we're all here........

seanz
05-16-2014, 04:44 PM
Because they won't let us keep participating in a boondoggle, you'd let sailors die?

The fact is, we're not Russian, we would save those sailors.

I hope so.

The idea that the US isn't allowed onto a science project so now it's Ok to let Russian sailors drown is more than a little disturbing.

Monkey Butler
05-16-2014, 07:12 PM
Tree Fort politics.

John Smith
05-16-2014, 07:16 PM
I'm not so sure they need us for anything connected to the space station, or apparently they don't think they will by 2020

The Bigfella
05-16-2014, 08:03 PM
I hope so.

The idea that the US isn't allowed onto a science project so now it's Ok to let Russian sailors drown is more than a little disturbing.


ayup

Reynard38
05-17-2014, 02:27 AM
Because they won't let us keep participating in a boondoggle, you'd let sailors die?

The fact is, we're not Russian, we would save those sailors.

Yes I would. To hell with Russia.

AndyG
05-17-2014, 05:33 PM
Bingo! I still don't know what it has done. They promised everything and have delivered nothing.

So not true.

International collaboration in space. Over 13 years of continuous occupation. Experiments we'd not have had the opportunity to get results for in any other way.

Plus it looks awesome.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/ISS_and_Endeavour_seen_from_the_Soyuz_TMA-20_spacecraft_14.jpg/800px-ISS_and_Endeavour_seen_from_the_Soyuz_TMA-20_spacecraft_14.jpg

Peter Malcolm Jardine
05-17-2014, 05:43 PM
OK, so let's pull all technical support for the ISS and let the Russians do it all...until the thing falls to earth.


Yep.

CWSmith
05-17-2014, 05:46 PM
Experiments we'd not have had the opportunity to get results for in any other way.

Name them, please. Be specific. Plus, just to keep it interesting, limit your answer to those experiments we could not do more cheaply with robotic missions that do not require astronauts.

genglandoh
05-17-2014, 05:49 PM
Interesting I did not realize the US was buying rocket engines from Russia
Russia halts rocket exports to US, hitting space and military programmes
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/may/15/us-space-military-programme-russia-sanctions

John Smith
05-17-2014, 06:01 PM
My uncle used to work on the space shuttle. We didn't make most of it, according to him.

Bob Adams
05-17-2014, 06:24 PM
My uncle used to work on the space shuttle. We didn't make most of it, according to him.

Yup. And for ther US not to have a replacement ready is a disgrace.

CWSmith
05-17-2014, 07:27 PM
This is not a bad place to start reading about the science, or lack of it, that has been performed on the space station.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/10/nation/la-na-space-station-20120510

I'm not saying it wasn't worth doing. I just think we should be honest and separate the promises from the accomplishments.

WX
05-17-2014, 10:20 PM
The ISS is a bit like the Wright brothers first plane. Very few people back then could see the potential of flight...keep that in mind.

wardd
05-17-2014, 11:31 PM
So not true.

International collaboration in space. Over 13 years of continuous occupation. Experiments we'd not have had the opportunity to get results for in any other way.

Plus it looks awesome.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/ISS_and_Endeavour_seen_from_the_Soyuz_TMA-20_spacecraft_14.jpg/800px-ISS_and_Endeavour_seen_from_the_Soyuz_TMA-20_spacecraft_14.jpg

pretty good for a gov program

paulf
05-17-2014, 11:52 PM
This might be good for us. It's time to rebuild the space program and keep it in house, so to speak.



On second thought, isn't a lot of that hardware US property? And didn't the us put a great deal of it in orbit? or am I wrong???

Y Bar Ranch
05-18-2014, 09:41 AM
The space station is a self-licking ice cream cone. It is like Columbus, having been to the new world, decides next to just anchor off the coast and do some more work on this 'living at sea' thing.

CWSmith
05-18-2014, 09:58 AM
The ISS is a bit like the Wright brothers first plane. Very few people back then could see the potential of flight...keep that in mind.

I do. They did not promise supersonic speeds with their first build.

willmarsh3
05-18-2014, 10:07 AM
Without the ISS how would one perfect life support systems for future manned space travel?

Also how would we come to understand physiological effects of space travel?

How would we learn about how people get along in space?

These are just a few of the research topics that come to mind that can't be conducted by robotic missions or more cheaply on earth.

CWSmith
05-18-2014, 10:14 AM
Without the ISS how would one perfect life support systems for future manned space travel?

Also how would we come to understand physiological effects of space travel?

How would we learn about how people get along in space?

These are just a few of the research topics that come to mind that can't be conducted by robotic missions or more cheaply on earth.

As stated in the link, most of the advances the space station has provided are in this area.

Hwyl
05-18-2014, 10:24 AM
http://housegoeshome.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/sandra-bullock-gravity.jpg

Gerarddm
05-18-2014, 02:43 PM
Boondoggle? Not unless you are an ignoramus.

The ISS marks the continuous involvement of humans in space, and thus is epochal. It is the first step out of the crib.

Our future is out there, not here.

CWSmith
05-18-2014, 04:08 PM
Boondoggle? Not unless you are an ignoramus.

I do love talking with people who can't carry a conversation without an insult.


The ISS marks the continuous involvement of humans in space, and thus is epochal. It is the first step out of the crib.

Our future is out there, not here.

Our future will ALWAYS be here. If we cannot learn to live on this planet using renewable resources without destroying what sustains us, we will cease to exist. At best, a few people will move elsewhere, but we are very, very far from enabling them to be self-sustaining.

Y Bar Ranch
05-18-2014, 04:19 PM
Boondoggle? Not unless you are an ignoramus.

The ISS marks the continuous involvement of humans in space, and thus is epochal. It is the first step out of the crib.

Our future is out there, not here.
Our future in space is in going from here to there, wherever 'there' might be. Moon or Mars or asteroids. I'd rather get on with that, then just anchor off the coast studying sea sickness.

CWSmith
05-18-2014, 04:25 PM
To understand where our future lies, you need to consider that it costs $10k to lift 1 lb to low Earth orbit and ten times that to put it on the moon.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/16/apollo-moon-landing-anniversary-opinions-contributors-cost-money.html

We can explore space and in the process do some good for mankind (space weather efforts are doing great things for us right now and astronauts are utterly incapable of helping in that effort) if we maintain the infrastructure here. We are not doing a good job of that now.

There will be future requests for NASA funding and we need to be able to judge those promises with an understanding of past claims and the limitations of future abilities. Consider, for instance, promises to harvest asteroids and establishing a permanent base on the moon. It would be great to do, but we owe it to ourselves to enter with open eyes.

John Smith
05-18-2014, 05:25 PM
This might be good for us. It's time to rebuild the space program and keep it in house, so to speak.



On second thought, isn't a lot of that hardware US property? And didn't the us put a great deal of it in orbit? or am I wrong???

I really don't know, but I doubt we'll go to war with Russia over it.

I don't recall many sharing my embarrassment that we, the nation who put men on the moon, had to buy a ticket to get to the space station.

In some respects this is just more outsourcing. It might be interesting when the day comes other countries will decide to sanction us and not sell us any goods.

paulf
05-18-2014, 08:02 PM
I really don't know, but I doubt we'll go to war with Russia over it.

I don't recall many sharing my embarrassment that we, the nation who put men on the moon, had to buy a ticket to get to the space station.

In some respects this is just more outsourcing. It might be interesting when the day comes other countries will decide to sanction us and not sell us any goods.

It might be a while before that happens. We still have a lot of natural resources and a fairly good work force. A lot of countries rely on the US for security. The Americas would be a different place if the US became truly 3rd world. Canada would step up eh!

willmarsh3
05-18-2014, 10:27 PM
To understand where our future lies, you need to consider that it costs $10k to lift 1 lb to low Earth orbit and ten times that to put it on the moon.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/16/apollo-moon-landing-anniversary-opinions-contributors-cost-money.html

Like most other technology this figure will come down. For instance the Falcon rocket will cost about $4k per pound to LEO.

http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/1989/what-is-the-current-cost-per-pound-to-send-something-into-leo/1991#1991

And in the UK, REL is developing Skylon which should push this price down further.

http://www.reactionengines.co.uk