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Roger Stouff
02-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Do such an animal exist?
If not, could one make such a thing?

Best,
R

[ 02-06-2006, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Roger Stouff ]

Roger Stouff
02-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Do such an animal exist?
If not, could one make such a thing?

Best,
R

[ 02-06-2006, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Roger Stouff ]

Roger Stouff
02-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Do such an animal exist?
If not, could one make such a thing?

Best,
R

[ 02-06-2006, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Roger Stouff ]

Ron Carter
02-07-2006, 08:12 AM
I'm having trouble with the need for a carbide edge. I'm in the middle of building a 13' sharpie and after grinding my plane irons and chisels on a good slow wet stone in November have not needed more than a couple of strokes on a stone to rewew the edge from time to time. Carbide is britle enough that I suspect it would chip from mishandling quite easily.

Ron Carter
02-07-2006, 08:12 AM
I'm having trouble with the need for a carbide edge. I'm in the middle of building a 13' sharpie and after grinding my plane irons and chisels on a good slow wet stone in November have not needed more than a couple of strokes on a stone to rewew the edge from time to time. Carbide is britle enough that I suspect it would chip from mishandling quite easily.

Ron Carter
02-07-2006, 08:12 AM
I'm having trouble with the need for a carbide edge. I'm in the middle of building a 13' sharpie and after grinding my plane irons and chisels on a good slow wet stone in November have not needed more than a couple of strokes on a stone to rewew the edge from time to time. Carbide is britle enough that I suspect it would chip from mishandling quite easily.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 08:27 AM
Wirtually anything can be made if you have enough money. But as Ron said the carbide will chip in fact it will chip from normal use on hardwood at any swirl in the grain. Carbide tools operate best at high speeds and with cutting edges that are rather blunt. The initial grind and subsequent regrinds to get the thin edge required for a plane would require an expensive grinder with high pressure and volume coolant injected at the point of grind to avoid chipping during grinding. To get such coolant the machine has to be totally enclosed and CNC controlled. Est machine cost $150,000, then $200.00 to make a special plane blade, braze on the carbide and grind it.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 08:27 AM
Wirtually anything can be made if you have enough money. But as Ron said the carbide will chip in fact it will chip from normal use on hardwood at any swirl in the grain. Carbide tools operate best at high speeds and with cutting edges that are rather blunt. The initial grind and subsequent regrinds to get the thin edge required for a plane would require an expensive grinder with high pressure and volume coolant injected at the point of grind to avoid chipping during grinding. To get such coolant the machine has to be totally enclosed and CNC controlled. Est machine cost $150,000, then $200.00 to make a special plane blade, braze on the carbide and grind it.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 08:27 AM
Wirtually anything can be made if you have enough money. But as Ron said the carbide will chip in fact it will chip from normal use on hardwood at any swirl in the grain. Carbide tools operate best at high speeds and with cutting edges that are rather blunt. The initial grind and subsequent regrinds to get the thin edge required for a plane would require an expensive grinder with high pressure and volume coolant injected at the point of grind to avoid chipping during grinding. To get such coolant the machine has to be totally enclosed and CNC controlled. Est machine cost $150,000, then $200.00 to make a special plane blade, braze on the carbide and grind it.

ishmael
02-07-2006, 09:01 AM
What I have seen, though I can't recall where, is plane blades made of high speed steel. Harder to sharpen. And there is some debate whether it buys you anything over good carbon steel in holding an edge.

What's the intended use?

Nice to see you around, Roger.

ishmael
02-07-2006, 09:01 AM
What I have seen, though I can't recall where, is plane blades made of high speed steel. Harder to sharpen. And there is some debate whether it buys you anything over good carbon steel in holding an edge.

What's the intended use?

Nice to see you around, Roger.

ishmael
02-07-2006, 09:01 AM
What I have seen, though I can't recall where, is plane blades made of high speed steel. Harder to sharpen. And there is some debate whether it buys you anything over good carbon steel in holding an edge.

What's the intended use?

Nice to see you around, Roger.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 09:44 AM
Nah, bad idea; like Ken said, carbide is too brittle. Look at any carbide cutting tool, and you'll find that it's sharpened at a very blunt angle, approaching 90 degrees - certainly nowhere near the 25 degrees of a standard plane iron. Carbide is great stuff for saw blades and milling cutters, but not plane irons.

The Hock Tools web site (http://www.hocktools.com/) has some decent basic information on types of steel and heat-treating. Cryogenically-treated A2 is supposedly the latest and greatest, although their carbon steel blades are more than good enough for my skill level.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 09:44 AM
Nah, bad idea; like Ken said, carbide is too brittle. Look at any carbide cutting tool, and you'll find that it's sharpened at a very blunt angle, approaching 90 degrees - certainly nowhere near the 25 degrees of a standard plane iron. Carbide is great stuff for saw blades and milling cutters, but not plane irons.

The Hock Tools web site (http://www.hocktools.com/) has some decent basic information on types of steel and heat-treating. Cryogenically-treated A2 is supposedly the latest and greatest, although their carbon steel blades are more than good enough for my skill level.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 09:44 AM
Nah, bad idea; like Ken said, carbide is too brittle. Look at any carbide cutting tool, and you'll find that it's sharpened at a very blunt angle, approaching 90 degrees - certainly nowhere near the 25 degrees of a standard plane iron. Carbide is great stuff for saw blades and milling cutters, but not plane irons.

The Hock Tools web site (http://www.hocktools.com/) has some decent basic information on types of steel and heat-treating. Cryogenically-treated A2 is supposedly the latest and greatest, although their carbon steel blades are more than good enough for my skill level.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 09:45 AM
Roger Stouff ---

I expect that carbide would work well. Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.

A cheaper alternative would be to use any of the high speed steels. They have much better abrasion resistance than the usual steels. This makes them stay sharp much longer but also requires more time to sharpen.

I use high speed steel plane irons and diamond stones.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 09:45 AM
Roger Stouff ---

I expect that carbide would work well. Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.

A cheaper alternative would be to use any of the high speed steels. They have much better abrasion resistance than the usual steels. This makes them stay sharp much longer but also requires more time to sharpen.

I use high speed steel plane irons and diamond stones.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 09:45 AM
Roger Stouff ---

I expect that carbide would work well. Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.

A cheaper alternative would be to use any of the high speed steels. They have much better abrasion resistance than the usual steels. This makes them stay sharp much longer but also requires more time to sharpen.

I use high speed steel plane irons and diamond stones.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 10:00 AM
Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.Y'know, that's an interesting point. The actual cutting angle of a standard plane is 45 degrees, sometimes 50 or even 60 degrees for specialized smoothing planes. Maybe if the relief angle of the blade was nearly flush with the sole? I bet Leonard Lee (of Lee Valley Tools) has worked on it. He's not at all afraid to try something new in plane design.

OTOH, my understanding is that carbide edges are not normally anywhere near as sharp as your average plane blade. They don't need to be for a milling cutter, but in an hand plane it might make a big difference in the amount of effort and tearout. Anybody with a tool and die shop out there who'd like to give it a try? I still don't think it'll work, but I might be wrong.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 10:00 AM
Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.Y'know, that's an interesting point. The actual cutting angle of a standard plane is 45 degrees, sometimes 50 or even 60 degrees for specialized smoothing planes. Maybe if the relief angle of the blade was nearly flush with the sole? I bet Leonard Lee (of Lee Valley Tools) has worked on it. He's not at all afraid to try something new in plane design.

OTOH, my understanding is that carbide edges are not normally anywhere near as sharp as your average plane blade. They don't need to be for a milling cutter, but in an hand plane it might make a big difference in the amount of effort and tearout. Anybody with a tool and die shop out there who'd like to give it a try? I still don't think it'll work, but I might be wrong.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 10:00 AM
Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.Y'know, that's an interesting point. The actual cutting angle of a standard plane is 45 degrees, sometimes 50 or even 60 degrees for specialized smoothing planes. Maybe if the relief angle of the blade was nearly flush with the sole? I bet Leonard Lee (of Lee Valley Tools) has worked on it. He's not at all afraid to try something new in plane design.

OTOH, my understanding is that carbide edges are not normally anywhere near as sharp as your average plane blade. They don't need to be for a milling cutter, but in an hand plane it might make a big difference in the amount of effort and tearout. Anybody with a tool and die shop out there who'd like to give it a try? I still don't think it'll work, but I might be wrong.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.It seems to me that with this statement you are challenging every article, lecture and suchlike that I have ever attended or read regarding the sharpening of plane irons. If you are going to, in effect, totally throw the "conventional wisdom" regarding sharpening planes out the window you might want to provide some evidence that your recommended approach of using a MUCH blunter sharpening angle than is standard actually works. I am concluding that you are talking about using a MUCH blunter sharpening angle than is standard because shifting from say, 30 degrees to 40 degrees would not, as I understand it, do much to help with the issue of carbide being brittle.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.It seems to me that with this statement you are challenging every article, lecture and suchlike that I have ever attended or read regarding the sharpening of plane irons. If you are going to, in effect, totally throw the "conventional wisdom" regarding sharpening planes out the window you might want to provide some evidence that your recommended approach of using a MUCH blunter sharpening angle than is standard actually works. I am concluding that you are talking about using a MUCH blunter sharpening angle than is standard because shifting from say, 30 degrees to 40 degrees would not, as I understand it, do much to help with the issue of carbide being brittle.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
Most plane irons have too much relief on the back.It seems to me that with this statement you are challenging every article, lecture and suchlike that I have ever attended or read regarding the sharpening of plane irons. If you are going to, in effect, totally throw the "conventional wisdom" regarding sharpening planes out the window you might want to provide some evidence that your recommended approach of using a MUCH blunter sharpening angle than is standard actually works. I am concluding that you are talking about using a MUCH blunter sharpening angle than is standard because shifting from say, 30 degrees to 40 degrees would not, as I understand it, do much to help with the issue of carbide being brittle.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Changing that angle would be like carving with the back edge of a knife blade.
I've got the equipment, except for the necessary expensive grinder, but I also got enough to know it isn't worth the effort.
A2 is about the best there is for plane blades. Don't bother with the cryogenic stuff, if you want something extra have it titaniun nitride coated with a diffussion process after putting on a world championship class sharpening job. But then again it isn't worth the effort or expense.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Changing that angle would be like carving with the back edge of a knife blade.
I've got the equipment, except for the necessary expensive grinder, but I also got enough to know it isn't worth the effort.
A2 is about the best there is for plane blades. Don't bother with the cryogenic stuff, if you want something extra have it titaniun nitride coated with a diffussion process after putting on a world championship class sharpening job. But then again it isn't worth the effort or expense.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Changing that angle would be like carving with the back edge of a knife blade.
I've got the equipment, except for the necessary expensive grinder, but I also got enough to know it isn't worth the effort.
A2 is about the best there is for plane blades. Don't bother with the cryogenic stuff, if you want something extra have it titaniun nitride coated with a diffussion process after putting on a world championship class sharpening job. But then again it isn't worth the effort or expense.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 11:40 AM
Bruce Hooke wrote "you might want to provide some evidence"

I can do that: People who design/market planes are idiots. To expand on that:

Any argument of proper sharping angle revolves on how much clearance is required behind the cutting edge. Since the bedding angle of planes runs from 40 to 60 degrees depending on ones needs, there should be a wide variation (I would expect 20 degrees) in the sharpening angle of the plane irons. In fact, there is little or none.

I make planes for my own use ONLY. A full set includes bedding angles of 45, 60, and 90 degrees with shapening angles of 35-40, 50-55, and 80-85 degrees respectivly - providing 5-10 degrees of clearance.

Machine planer blades are often made of carbide as are router bits. That alone would suggest that with the proper design hand plane blades could be made of carbide.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 11:40 AM
Bruce Hooke wrote "you might want to provide some evidence"

I can do that: People who design/market planes are idiots. To expand on that:

Any argument of proper sharping angle revolves on how much clearance is required behind the cutting edge. Since the bedding angle of planes runs from 40 to 60 degrees depending on ones needs, there should be a wide variation (I would expect 20 degrees) in the sharpening angle of the plane irons. In fact, there is little or none.

I make planes for my own use ONLY. A full set includes bedding angles of 45, 60, and 90 degrees with shapening angles of 35-40, 50-55, and 80-85 degrees respectivly - providing 5-10 degrees of clearance.

Machine planer blades are often made of carbide as are router bits. That alone would suggest that with the proper design hand plane blades could be made of carbide.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 11:40 AM
Bruce Hooke wrote "you might want to provide some evidence"

I can do that: People who design/market planes are idiots. To expand on that:

Any argument of proper sharping angle revolves on how much clearance is required behind the cutting edge. Since the bedding angle of planes runs from 40 to 60 degrees depending on ones needs, there should be a wide variation (I would expect 20 degrees) in the sharpening angle of the plane irons. In fact, there is little or none.

I make planes for my own use ONLY. A full set includes bedding angles of 45, 60, and 90 degrees with shapening angles of 35-40, 50-55, and 80-85 degrees respectivly - providing 5-10 degrees of clearance.

Machine planer blades are often made of carbide as are router bits. That alone would suggest that with the proper design hand plane blades could be made of carbide.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 11:58 AM
Machine planer blades are often made of carbide as are router bits. That alone would suggest that with the proper design hand plane blades could be made of carbide. Maybe not. The behavior of wood when cut at high speeds may be very different than when cut at hand plane speeds. Consider that a 1" router bit at 20,000 RPM is running at about 1300 surface FPM, and if you're moving the router at 3in/sec, each chip (2 cuts/rev) is about .005 A hand plane is quite different, both in cutting geometry and speed.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 11:58 AM
Machine planer blades are often made of carbide as are router bits. That alone would suggest that with the proper design hand plane blades could be made of carbide. Maybe not. The behavior of wood when cut at high speeds may be very different than when cut at hand plane speeds. Consider that a 1" router bit at 20,000 RPM is running at about 1300 surface FPM, and if you're moving the router at 3in/sec, each chip (2 cuts/rev) is about .005 A hand plane is quite different, both in cutting geometry and speed.

Keith Wilson
02-07-2006, 11:58 AM
Machine planer blades are often made of carbide as are router bits. That alone would suggest that with the proper design hand plane blades could be made of carbide. Maybe not. The behavior of wood when cut at high speeds may be very different than when cut at hand plane speeds. Consider that a 1" router bit at 20,000 RPM is running at about 1300 surface FPM, and if you're moving the router at 3in/sec, each chip (2 cuts/rev) is about .005 A hand plane is quite different, both in cutting geometry and speed.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 12:43 PM
There are two issues here, bedding angle and sharpening angle. The bedding angle is, of course, determined by the maker of the plane. However, planes with various bedding angles are available.

The sharpening angle is determined, at least after the first few sharpenings, but the person who sharpens the plane iron. Lots of knowledegable people, from James Krenov to Aime Fraser, seem to recommend a sharpening angle of around 30 degrees (for planes with a fairly standard bedding angle in the 45 to 50 degree range). Maybe they are all wrong, but calling people like that idiots doesn't carry much weight with me.

Furthermore, based on what other people seem to be saying here, even a sharpening angle of 55 degrees might not be sufficient to keep a carbide blade from chipping.

Lastly, I believe a plane with a bedding angle of 90 degrees would be considered a scraper plane, which is really a somewhat different beast (and actually rather closer in action to many power tool blades where carbide is commonly used). As I understand it, irons for scraper planes are usually sharpened somewhat like a card scraper, with a burnished "hook" on the edge of the blade. Clearly this would not work with carbide, but maybe carbide would work in this situation without such a hook.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 12:43 PM
There are two issues here, bedding angle and sharpening angle. The bedding angle is, of course, determined by the maker of the plane. However, planes with various bedding angles are available.

The sharpening angle is determined, at least after the first few sharpenings, but the person who sharpens the plane iron. Lots of knowledegable people, from James Krenov to Aime Fraser, seem to recommend a sharpening angle of around 30 degrees (for planes with a fairly standard bedding angle in the 45 to 50 degree range). Maybe they are all wrong, but calling people like that idiots doesn't carry much weight with me.

Furthermore, based on what other people seem to be saying here, even a sharpening angle of 55 degrees might not be sufficient to keep a carbide blade from chipping.

Lastly, I believe a plane with a bedding angle of 90 degrees would be considered a scraper plane, which is really a somewhat different beast (and actually rather closer in action to many power tool blades where carbide is commonly used). As I understand it, irons for scraper planes are usually sharpened somewhat like a card scraper, with a burnished "hook" on the edge of the blade. Clearly this would not work with carbide, but maybe carbide would work in this situation without such a hook.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 12:43 PM
There are two issues here, bedding angle and sharpening angle. The bedding angle is, of course, determined by the maker of the plane. However, planes with various bedding angles are available.

The sharpening angle is determined, at least after the first few sharpenings, but the person who sharpens the plane iron. Lots of knowledegable people, from James Krenov to Aime Fraser, seem to recommend a sharpening angle of around 30 degrees (for planes with a fairly standard bedding angle in the 45 to 50 degree range). Maybe they are all wrong, but calling people like that idiots doesn't carry much weight with me.

Furthermore, based on what other people seem to be saying here, even a sharpening angle of 55 degrees might not be sufficient to keep a carbide blade from chipping.

Lastly, I believe a plane with a bedding angle of 90 degrees would be considered a scraper plane, which is really a somewhat different beast (and actually rather closer in action to many power tool blades where carbide is commonly used). As I understand it, irons for scraper planes are usually sharpened somewhat like a card scraper, with a burnished "hook" on the edge of the blade. Clearly this would not work with carbide, but maybe carbide would work in this situation without such a hook.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-07-2006, 01:03 PM
I spent a decade or more repairing machines that cut metal with insert cutters made of cemented carbide (what is being discussed here) and ceramic inserts which are a later developement. These materials are very hard and quite brittle. That means the cutting edge cannot be "relieved" (ground at angles far less than 90)sufficiently to get the knife edge necessary to cut something as soft as wood.
For machining metal carbide is "the berries" as long as you don't damage the cutting edge.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-07-2006, 01:03 PM
I spent a decade or more repairing machines that cut metal with insert cutters made of cemented carbide (what is being discussed here) and ceramic inserts which are a later developement. These materials are very hard and quite brittle. That means the cutting edge cannot be "relieved" (ground at angles far less than 90)sufficiently to get the knife edge necessary to cut something as soft as wood.
For machining metal carbide is "the berries" as long as you don't damage the cutting edge.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-07-2006, 01:03 PM
I spent a decade or more repairing machines that cut metal with insert cutters made of cemented carbide (what is being discussed here) and ceramic inserts which are a later developement. These materials are very hard and quite brittle. That means the cutting edge cannot be "relieved" (ground at angles far less than 90)sufficiently to get the knife edge necessary to cut something as soft as wood.
For machining metal carbide is "the berries" as long as you don't damage the cutting edge.

Dave Fleming
02-07-2006, 02:05 PM
Old Geezer here.

For hand held edge tool blades good old steel of the proper carbon content is all that is really needed.

Many different, Bedding angles, Relief angles, Sharpening angles have long been tried and tested.
ie: York Pattern for highly figured woods. The ones that work are the ones in use.

As far as TCT vs HSS in planer, shaper, jointer blades. I have used both with success.

NOT solid carbide blades but carbide tipped.
Tried a set of solid once, too brittle and chipped seemingly just for looking at them!
The carbide tipped steel ones have support to the carbide enabling them to resist the chipout.
Point, in my experience, I am unable to get the same quality of finish from a TCT equipped planer as from a HSS equipped planer. HSS edge is much sharper than TCT edge. The TCT will last miles longer than the HSS though, especially in woods such as Teak, Ironbark, Red Gum.

The more you work with wood, different kinds of wood, you will realize that one size does not fit all situations.

Example, you have a piece of nice curly maple and need to face one side before putting through the planer. Now, if you take that board and just run it across the jointer cutter head with the fence parallel to the bed length, most times you will get chipout. But, skew the fence and a 10 or 15 degree angle and run the board and 9 times out of 10 the chipout will be gone or pretty close to it.
Then you do the same running the other side through the planer as much as the bed width will allow.
Just as you would do with a hand plane.

Dave Fleming
02-07-2006, 02:05 PM
Old Geezer here.

For hand held edge tool blades good old steel of the proper carbon content is all that is really needed.

Many different, Bedding angles, Relief angles, Sharpening angles have long been tried and tested.
ie: York Pattern for highly figured woods. The ones that work are the ones in use.

As far as TCT vs HSS in planer, shaper, jointer blades. I have used both with success.

NOT solid carbide blades but carbide tipped.
Tried a set of solid once, too brittle and chipped seemingly just for looking at them!
The carbide tipped steel ones have support to the carbide enabling them to resist the chipout.
Point, in my experience, I am unable to get the same quality of finish from a TCT equipped planer as from a HSS equipped planer. HSS edge is much sharper than TCT edge. The TCT will last miles longer than the HSS though, especially in woods such as Teak, Ironbark, Red Gum.

The more you work with wood, different kinds of wood, you will realize that one size does not fit all situations.

Example, you have a piece of nice curly maple and need to face one side before putting through the planer. Now, if you take that board and just run it across the jointer cutter head with the fence parallel to the bed length, most times you will get chipout. But, skew the fence and a 10 or 15 degree angle and run the board and 9 times out of 10 the chipout will be gone or pretty close to it.
Then you do the same running the other side through the planer as much as the bed width will allow.
Just as you would do with a hand plane.

Dave Fleming
02-07-2006, 02:05 PM
Old Geezer here.

For hand held edge tool blades good old steel of the proper carbon content is all that is really needed.

Many different, Bedding angles, Relief angles, Sharpening angles have long been tried and tested.
ie: York Pattern for highly figured woods. The ones that work are the ones in use.

As far as TCT vs HSS in planer, shaper, jointer blades. I have used both with success.

NOT solid carbide blades but carbide tipped.
Tried a set of solid once, too brittle and chipped seemingly just for looking at them!
The carbide tipped steel ones have support to the carbide enabling them to resist the chipout.
Point, in my experience, I am unable to get the same quality of finish from a TCT equipped planer as from a HSS equipped planer. HSS edge is much sharper than TCT edge. The TCT will last miles longer than the HSS though, especially in woods such as Teak, Ironbark, Red Gum.

The more you work with wood, different kinds of wood, you will realize that one size does not fit all situations.

Example, you have a piece of nice curly maple and need to face one side before putting through the planer. Now, if you take that board and just run it across the jointer cutter head with the fence parallel to the bed length, most times you will get chipout. But, skew the fence and a 10 or 15 degree angle and run the board and 9 times out of 10 the chipout will be gone or pretty close to it.
Then you do the same running the other side through the planer as much as the bed width will allow.
Just as you would do with a hand plane.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 03:05 PM
Bruce Hooke ---

You might notice that some "high-end" plane makers are making bevel up planes. Along the same lines many workmen are using low angle planes which by their nature are bevel up planes.

The claimed advantage is that you can change the cutting angle by changing the sharpening angle.

I suspect the class of people who share your "conventional wisdom" and I call idiots is much smaller than you suggest.

I have not used carbide tools for at least a decade. When I did, I could put a respectable edge on using a "green" grinding wheel. Give me a surface grinder with a diamond wheel and a sine plate and I will produce a plane iron that will be as sharp as any steel you wish.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 03:05 PM
Bruce Hooke ---

You might notice that some "high-end" plane makers are making bevel up planes. Along the same lines many workmen are using low angle planes which by their nature are bevel up planes.

The claimed advantage is that you can change the cutting angle by changing the sharpening angle.

I suspect the class of people who share your "conventional wisdom" and I call idiots is much smaller than you suggest.

I have not used carbide tools for at least a decade. When I did, I could put a respectable edge on using a "green" grinding wheel. Give me a surface grinder with a diamond wheel and a sine plate and I will produce a plane iron that will be as sharp as any steel you wish.

George Roberts
02-07-2006, 03:05 PM
Bruce Hooke ---

You might notice that some "high-end" plane makers are making bevel up planes. Along the same lines many workmen are using low angle planes which by their nature are bevel up planes.

The claimed advantage is that you can change the cutting angle by changing the sharpening angle.

I suspect the class of people who share your "conventional wisdom" and I call idiots is much smaller than you suggest.

I have not used carbide tools for at least a decade. When I did, I could put a respectable edge on using a "green" grinding wheel. Give me a surface grinder with a diamond wheel and a sine plate and I will produce a plane iron that will be as sharp as any steel you wish.

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
I suspect the class of people who share your "conventional wisdom" and I call idiots is much smaller than you suggest.They may or may not be. I don't see a good way to argue it. However, if I can count the likes of James Krenov to Aime Fraser as my company than I will be quite happy to keep them company, whatever you care to call "us."

You have a habit of dismissing anyone who does not agree with you as an idiot. This mostly reflects poorly on you...

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
I suspect the class of people who share your "conventional wisdom" and I call idiots is much smaller than you suggest.They may or may not be. I don't see a good way to argue it. However, if I can count the likes of James Krenov to Aime Fraser as my company than I will be quite happy to keep them company, whatever you care to call "us."

You have a habit of dismissing anyone who does not agree with you as an idiot. This mostly reflects poorly on you...

Bruce Hooke
02-07-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by George Roberts:
I suspect the class of people who share your "conventional wisdom" and I call idiots is much smaller than you suggest.They may or may not be. I don't see a good way to argue it. However, if I can count the likes of James Krenov to Aime Fraser as my company than I will be quite happy to keep them company, whatever you care to call "us."

You have a habit of dismissing anyone who does not agree with you as an idiot. This mostly reflects poorly on you...

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 04:56 PM
The machining, toolmaking, tool engineering experts with many, many years of experience have spoken, no more need be said.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 04:56 PM
The machining, toolmaking, tool engineering experts with many, many years of experience have spoken, no more need be said.

Ken Hutchins
02-07-2006, 04:56 PM
The machining, toolmaking, tool engineering experts with many, many years of experience have spoken, no more need be said.

imported_Steven Bauer
02-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Roger, Have you seen the Swiss Rali planes? They have reversible disposable blades. I haven't tried them but they look pretty cool in the catalogs.

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302400.jpg

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302404.jpg

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302413.jpg

Steven

imported_Steven Bauer
02-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Roger, Have you seen the Swiss Rali planes? They have reversible disposable blades. I haven't tried them but they look pretty cool in the catalogs.

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302400.jpg

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302404.jpg

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302413.jpg

Steven

imported_Steven Bauer
02-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Roger, Have you seen the Swiss Rali planes? They have reversible disposable blades. I haven't tried them but they look pretty cool in the catalogs.

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302400.jpg

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302404.jpg

http://www.fine-tools.com/R302413.jpg

Steven

Dave Fleming
02-07-2006, 06:06 PM
Plane Settings (http://www.knight-toolworks.com/wooden.htm)

Fellow seems to have a good reputation.

Page noted has his comments on plane blade settings.

Dave Fleming
02-07-2006, 06:06 PM
Plane Settings (http://www.knight-toolworks.com/wooden.htm)

Fellow seems to have a good reputation.

Page noted has his comments on plane blade settings.

Dave Fleming
02-07-2006, 06:06 PM
Plane Settings (http://www.knight-toolworks.com/wooden.htm)

Fellow seems to have a good reputation.

Page noted has his comments on plane blade settings.

Bob Perkins
02-07-2006, 08:59 PM
Look at Holtey (http://holteyplanes.com/). He makes A2 and Powder metal irons.

The powder metal holds an edge longer than A2 - but it is a real bear to sharpen. Sharpening is done with diamond paste. It is the only way to get the edge sharp.

I met up with a guy who is/was the importer of Holtey planes - he owns a few of them and really is an expert on the subject IMHO. He taught me quite a bit about them, etc..

I got to use the A6 - pretty nice for $6K. The owner admitted very freely - it is not $5,700 better than the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2. But it is better. Must be nice to own a Ferrari.. smile.gif

bp

Bob Perkins
02-07-2006, 08:59 PM
Look at Holtey (http://holteyplanes.com/). He makes A2 and Powder metal irons.

The powder metal holds an edge longer than A2 - but it is a real bear to sharpen. Sharpening is done with diamond paste. It is the only way to get the edge sharp.

I met up with a guy who is/was the importer of Holtey planes - he owns a few of them and really is an expert on the subject IMHO. He taught me quite a bit about them, etc..

I got to use the A6 - pretty nice for $6K. The owner admitted very freely - it is not $5,700 better than the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2. But it is better. Must be nice to own a Ferrari.. smile.gif

bp

Bob Perkins
02-07-2006, 08:59 PM
Look at Holtey (http://holteyplanes.com/). He makes A2 and Powder metal irons.

The powder metal holds an edge longer than A2 - but it is a real bear to sharpen. Sharpening is done with diamond paste. It is the only way to get the edge sharp.

I met up with a guy who is/was the importer of Holtey planes - he owns a few of them and really is an expert on the subject IMHO. He taught me quite a bit about them, etc..

I got to use the A6 - pretty nice for $6K. The owner admitted very freely - it is not $5,700 better than the Lie-Nielsen 4 1/2. But it is better. Must be nice to own a Ferrari.. smile.gif

bp

Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I had always heard that carbon steel will take a finer edge than carbide, but the edge doesn't hold as long... hence the popularity of carbide for saw blades and production power tools.

I've spent some time this winter really learning how to get an edge... partly learned from topics out on the forum, and I must admit ... it works! By golly, a carbon steel plane iron that is reallllly sharp is a wunnerful thing. I've also been spending more time with hand tools, and that's good too. :D ;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I had always heard that carbon steel will take a finer edge than carbide, but the edge doesn't hold as long... hence the popularity of carbide for saw blades and production power tools.

I've spent some time this winter really learning how to get an edge... partly learned from topics out on the forum, and I must admit ... it works! By golly, a carbon steel plane iron that is reallllly sharp is a wunnerful thing. I've also been spending more time with hand tools, and that's good too. :D ;)

Peter Malcolm Jardine
02-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I had always heard that carbon steel will take a finer edge than carbide, but the edge doesn't hold as long... hence the popularity of carbide for saw blades and production power tools.

I've spent some time this winter really learning how to get an edge... partly learned from topics out on the forum, and I must admit ... it works! By golly, a carbon steel plane iron that is reallllly sharp is a wunnerful thing. I've also been spending more time with hand tools, and that's good too. :D ;)

Paul Fitzgerald
02-08-2006, 03:46 AM
I picked up one of those rali planes a year ago, mostly from curiosity. I remember Stanley also made an aluminium bodied plane with disposible blades years ago. The rali is a nice piece of work, especially the way you can adjust the blade depth almost instantly.
I don't know how long the blades last, I'm on my first and its still sharp, but thats with limited use in softwoods.
My preferred blades are the thick laminated ones in wood planes, like the old mathiesons. They cut wood like a folkboat sails, sweeeeeet and smoooth.

Paul Fitzgerald
02-08-2006, 03:46 AM
I picked up one of those rali planes a year ago, mostly from curiosity. I remember Stanley also made an aluminium bodied plane with disposible blades years ago. The rali is a nice piece of work, especially the way you can adjust the blade depth almost instantly.
I don't know how long the blades last, I'm on my first and its still sharp, but thats with limited use in softwoods.
My preferred blades are the thick laminated ones in wood planes, like the old mathiesons. They cut wood like a folkboat sails, sweeeeeet and smoooth.

Paul Fitzgerald
02-08-2006, 03:46 AM
I picked up one of those rali planes a year ago, mostly from curiosity. I remember Stanley also made an aluminium bodied plane with disposible blades years ago. The rali is a nice piece of work, especially the way you can adjust the blade depth almost instantly.
I don't know how long the blades last, I'm on my first and its still sharp, but thats with limited use in softwoods.
My preferred blades are the thick laminated ones in wood planes, like the old mathiesons. They cut wood like a folkboat sails, sweeeeeet and smoooth.

ishmael
02-08-2006, 07:06 AM
"Tool Steel" refers to a class of steels that are metallurgically very "clean" and fall within strict limits for alloy proportions. Vanadium, tungsten, and molybdenum are often added to tool steels to make the steel resist annealing (softening) when used in "high-speed" (high heat) applications. Chromium is added in very large quantities for corrosion resistance ("stainless"). High-speed steels are essential in metal-working tools (drills, milling cutters, etc.) and "stainless" steels can be cost effective by resisting rust during the manufacture, shipping, and storage of the tool itself. Correctly heat-treated, tools made from high-speed, stainless, and "chrome-vanadium" steels may hold an edge well in woodworking applications, but, due to the large, hard carbide particles that form during hardening, they are difficult to sharpen and cannot be honed as sharply as a blade of plain high-carbon steel. Our choice of High-Carbon Tool-Steel (.95% Carbon) offers the finest, sharpest edge possible. Its chromium and vanadium additions amount to only 1/2% each allowing quick, clean honing with traditional techniques. High-carbon steel holds and takes an edge better than anything else. We guarantee it.

From the Hock Tool site Keith posted.

A few years back, after the lap-ply craze hit, several companies(including our host, I think) started marketing a low angle block plane with a HSS iron specifically for working the bevels and scarfs on the plywood. I never bit because I wasn't planing much plywood. Anyone know if a HSS iron is better for this app?

My experience with good carbon steel is that it takes a beautiful edge, for most uses holds it well, and is so easy, once you know how to sharpen, to touch up. Harder steels I have used in knives drove me crazy at the hone. My 2 cents.

[ 02-08-2006, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

ishmael
02-08-2006, 07:06 AM
"Tool Steel" refers to a class of steels that are metallurgically very "clean" and fall within strict limits for alloy proportions. Vanadium, tungsten, and molybdenum are often added to tool steels to make the steel resist annealing (softening) when used in "high-speed" (high heat) applications. Chromium is added in very large quantities for corrosion resistance ("stainless"). High-speed steels are essential in metal-working tools (drills, milling cutters, etc.) and "stainless" steels can be cost effective by resisting rust during the manufacture, shipping, and storage of the tool itself. Correctly heat-treated, tools made from high-speed, stainless, and "chrome-vanadium" steels may hold an edge well in woodworking applications, but, due to the large, hard carbide particles that form during hardening, they are difficult to sharpen and cannot be honed as sharply as a blade of plain high-carbon steel. Our choice of High-Carbon Tool-Steel (.95% Carbon) offers the finest, sharpest edge possible. Its chromium and vanadium additions amount to only 1/2% each allowing quick, clean honing with traditional techniques. High-carbon steel holds and takes an edge better than anything else. We guarantee it.

From the Hock Tool site Keith posted.

A few years back, after the lap-ply craze hit, several companies(including our host, I think) started marketing a low angle block plane with a HSS iron specifically for working the bevels and scarfs on the plywood. I never bit because I wasn't planing much plywood. Anyone know if a HSS iron is better for this app?

My experience with good carbon steel is that it takes a beautiful edge, for most uses holds it well, and is so easy, once you know how to sharpen, to touch up. Harder steels I have used in knives drove me crazy at the hone. My 2 cents.

[ 02-08-2006, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

ishmael
02-08-2006, 07:06 AM
"Tool Steel" refers to a class of steels that are metallurgically very "clean" and fall within strict limits for alloy proportions. Vanadium, tungsten, and molybdenum are often added to tool steels to make the steel resist annealing (softening) when used in "high-speed" (high heat) applications. Chromium is added in very large quantities for corrosion resistance ("stainless"). High-speed steels are essential in metal-working tools (drills, milling cutters, etc.) and "stainless" steels can be cost effective by resisting rust during the manufacture, shipping, and storage of the tool itself. Correctly heat-treated, tools made from high-speed, stainless, and "chrome-vanadium" steels may hold an edge well in woodworking applications, but, due to the large, hard carbide particles that form during hardening, they are difficult to sharpen and cannot be honed as sharply as a blade of plain high-carbon steel. Our choice of High-Carbon Tool-Steel (.95% Carbon) offers the finest, sharpest edge possible. Its chromium and vanadium additions amount to only 1/2% each allowing quick, clean honing with traditional techniques. High-carbon steel holds and takes an edge better than anything else. We guarantee it.

From the Hock Tool site Keith posted.

A few years back, after the lap-ply craze hit, several companies(including our host, I think) started marketing a low angle block plane with a HSS iron specifically for working the bevels and scarfs on the plywood. I never bit because I wasn't planing much plywood. Anyone know if a HSS iron is better for this app?

My experience with good carbon steel is that it takes a beautiful edge, for most uses holds it well, and is so easy, once you know how to sharpen, to touch up. Harder steels I have used in knives drove me crazy at the hone. My 2 cents.

[ 02-08-2006, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: ishmael ]

Keith Wilson
02-08-2006, 09:35 AM
I don't really know why one would use High Speed Steel for hand tools, other than as a marketing ploy. Those alloys were originally developed for metal-cutting tools to allow higher speeds and feeds, because they would hold their edge when they got very hot. I don't care how young and vigorous you are, your plane blade is never going to get that hot in use. Maybe they also have some advantages when cold?

I've used A2 for a lot of things; it's sort of my all-purpose tool steel with a good balance of characteristics, and the best thing is that it doesn't distort significantly during hardening; very important for complicated parts and fixtures that are hard to machine afterwards, although for a plane iron it hardly matters.

And MY GOD those Hotley planes are amazing! Very expensive jewelry, barely even tools! Id bet that one reason they work so well is the thickness of the blade and chip breaker the blade looks like at least. It would be hard to make any plane work badly with such a rigid blade.

[ 02-08-2006, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

Keith Wilson
02-08-2006, 09:35 AM
I don't really know why one would use High Speed Steel for hand tools, other than as a marketing ploy. Those alloys were originally developed for metal-cutting tools to allow higher speeds and feeds, because they would hold their edge when they got very hot. I don't care how young and vigorous you are, your plane blade is never going to get that hot in use. Maybe they also have some advantages when cold?

I've used A2 for a lot of things; it's sort of my all-purpose tool steel with a good balance of characteristics, and the best thing is that it doesn't distort significantly during hardening; very important for complicated parts and fixtures that are hard to machine afterwards, although for a plane iron it hardly matters.

And MY GOD those Hotley planes are amazing! Very expensive jewelry, barely even tools! Id bet that one reason they work so well is the thickness of the blade and chip breaker the blade looks like at least. It would be hard to make any plane work badly with such a rigid blade.

[ 02-08-2006, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

Keith Wilson
02-08-2006, 09:35 AM
I don't really know why one would use High Speed Steel for hand tools, other than as a marketing ploy. Those alloys were originally developed for metal-cutting tools to allow higher speeds and feeds, because they would hold their edge when they got very hot. I don't care how young and vigorous you are, your plane blade is never going to get that hot in use. Maybe they also have some advantages when cold?

I've used A2 for a lot of things; it's sort of my all-purpose tool steel with a good balance of characteristics, and the best thing is that it doesn't distort significantly during hardening; very important for complicated parts and fixtures that are hard to machine afterwards, although for a plane iron it hardly matters.

And MY GOD those Hotley planes are amazing! Very expensive jewelry, barely even tools! Id bet that one reason they work so well is the thickness of the blade and chip breaker the blade looks like at least. It would be hard to make any plane work badly with such a rigid blade.

[ 02-08-2006, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

Tom Lathrop
02-08-2006, 09:48 AM
Fellow Idiots,

On a plane with a rake angle of 45 degrees and a sharpened bevel of 30 degrees, the clearance angle is only 15 degrees. I usually make a micro bevel of about 5 degrees to strengthen the edge, which leaves a clearance behind the edge of only 10 degrees.

Since there must be SOME clearance angle, I am confused that there is such argument about the few degrees that are left from the available 90.

I taught a planemaking class last spring where we used Hock blades and made 7 planes, all with 45 degree rake angle and 30 degree sharpness angle. Wonderful blades and I can't see where there could be much improvement for use by most woodworkers.

For a hand plane that I have to sharpen, I see no use for a carbide blade.

George is just being George.

[ 02-08-2006, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

Tom Lathrop
02-08-2006, 09:48 AM
Fellow Idiots,

On a plane with a rake angle of 45 degrees and a sharpened bevel of 30 degrees, the clearance angle is only 15 degrees. I usually make a micro bevel of about 5 degrees to strengthen the edge, which leaves a clearance behind the edge of only 10 degrees.

Since there must be SOME clearance angle, I am confused that there is such argument about the few degrees that are left from the available 90.

I taught a planemaking class last spring where we used Hock blades and made 7 planes, all with 45 degree rake angle and 30 degree sharpness angle. Wonderful blades and I can't see where there could be much improvement for use by most woodworkers.

For a hand plane that I have to sharpen, I see no use for a carbide blade.

George is just being George.

[ 02-08-2006, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

Tom Lathrop
02-08-2006, 09:48 AM
Fellow Idiots,

On a plane with a rake angle of 45 degrees and a sharpened bevel of 30 degrees, the clearance angle is only 15 degrees. I usually make a micro bevel of about 5 degrees to strengthen the edge, which leaves a clearance behind the edge of only 10 degrees.

Since there must be SOME clearance angle, I am confused that there is such argument about the few degrees that are left from the available 90.

I taught a planemaking class last spring where we used Hock blades and made 7 planes, all with 45 degree rake angle and 30 degree sharpness angle. Wonderful blades and I can't see where there could be much improvement for use by most woodworkers.

For a hand plane that I have to sharpen, I see no use for a carbide blade.

George is just being George.

[ 02-08-2006, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Tom Lathrop ]

George Roberts
02-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Tom Lathrop ---

My initial statement could be read as "a minimal clearance angle is more important for carbide than steel irons", but everyone likes to be righter than I(me??).

Some plane iron materials "test" results (http://cablespeed.com/~sgelliott/blade_testing/index.html) indicate that CPM 3V steel stays sharper significantly longer than A2. Better comparisions for a wide range of steels can be obtained directly from one steel maker's data sheets. (http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart2.html)

I use HSS hand tools with minimal clearance because doing so saves me time.

George Roberts
02-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Tom Lathrop ---

My initial statement could be read as "a minimal clearance angle is more important for carbide than steel irons", but everyone likes to be righter than I(me??).

Some plane iron materials "test" results (http://cablespeed.com/~sgelliott/blade_testing/index.html) indicate that CPM 3V steel stays sharper significantly longer than A2. Better comparisions for a wide range of steels can be obtained directly from one steel maker's data sheets. (http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart2.html)

I use HSS hand tools with minimal clearance because doing so saves me time.

George Roberts
02-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Tom Lathrop ---

My initial statement could be read as "a minimal clearance angle is more important for carbide than steel irons", but everyone likes to be righter than I(me??).

Some plane iron materials "test" results (http://cablespeed.com/~sgelliott/blade_testing/index.html) indicate that CPM 3V steel stays sharper significantly longer than A2. Better comparisions for a wide range of steels can be obtained directly from one steel maker's data sheets. (http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart2.html)

I use HSS hand tools with minimal clearance because doing so saves me time.

Gary E
02-08-2006, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Tom Lathrop:
Fellow Idiots,

On a plane with a rake angle of 45 degrees and a sharpened bevel of 30 degrees, the clearance angle is only 15 degrees. I usually make a micro bevel of about 5 degrees to strengthen the edge, which leaves a clearance behind the edge of only 10 degrees.

Since there must be SOME clearance angle, I am confused that there is such argument about the few degrees that are left from the available 90.

I taught a planemaking class last spring where we used Hock blades and made 7 planes, all with 45 degree rake angle and 30 degree sharpness angle. Wonderful blades and I can't see where there could be much improvement for use by most woodworkers.

For a hand plane that I have to sharpen, I see no use for a carbide blade.

George is just being George.10000000 % right Tom...

Was wondering when some one would talk about good primary and secondary tool grinding practice.

Gary E
02-08-2006, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Tom Lathrop:
Fellow Idiots,

On a plane with a rake angle of 45 degrees and a sharpened bevel of 30 degrees, the clearance angle is only 15 degrees. I usually make a micro bevel of about 5 degrees to strengthen the edge, which leaves a clearance behind the edge of only 10 degrees.

Since there must be SOME clearance angle, I am confused that there is such argument about the few degrees that are left from the available 90.

I taught a planemaking class last spring where we used Hock blades and made 7 planes, all with 45 degree rake angle and 30 degree sharpness angle. Wonderful blades and I can't see where there could be much improvement for use by most woodworkers.

For a hand plane that I have to sharpen, I see no use for a carbide blade.

George is just being George.10000000 % right Tom...

Was wondering when some one would talk about good primary and secondary tool grinding practice.

Gary E
02-08-2006, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Tom Lathrop:
Fellow Idiots,

On a plane with a rake angle of 45 degrees and a sharpened bevel of 30 degrees, the clearance angle is only 15 degrees. I usually make a micro bevel of about 5 degrees to strengthen the edge, which leaves a clearance behind the edge of only 10 degrees.

Since there must be SOME clearance angle, I am confused that there is such argument about the few degrees that are left from the available 90.

I taught a planemaking class last spring where we used Hock blades and made 7 planes, all with 45 degree rake angle and 30 degree sharpness angle. Wonderful blades and I can't see where there could be much improvement for use by most woodworkers.

For a hand plane that I have to sharpen, I see no use for a carbide blade.

George is just being George.10000000 % right Tom...

Was wondering when some one would talk about good primary and secondary tool grinding practice.

Roger Stouff
02-09-2006, 04:47 PM
I asked this because I know a fellow, a bamboo rodmaker, who had carbide "tips" welded somehow to his Stanley 9 1/2 blades and they work great for rodmaking. I wonder how they'd do for wood?

Roger Stouff
02-09-2006, 04:47 PM
I asked this because I know a fellow, a bamboo rodmaker, who had carbide "tips" welded somehow to his Stanley 9 1/2 blades and they work great for rodmaking. I wonder how they'd do for wood?

Roger Stouff
02-09-2006, 04:47 PM
I asked this because I know a fellow, a bamboo rodmaker, who had carbide "tips" welded somehow to his Stanley 9 1/2 blades and they work great for rodmaking. I wonder how they'd do for wood?

Dave Fleming
02-09-2006, 05:00 PM
I wonder how they'd do for wood? Why bother? Seems like a big expense to have TCT tips brazed onto a so-so grade Stanley blade.

I can see him looking for a better quality, But, Hock, Japan Wood Worker, Lie Nielsen all make fine quality afer market blades for most Stanley models.

Dave Fleming
02-09-2006, 05:00 PM
I wonder how they'd do for wood? Why bother? Seems like a big expense to have TCT tips brazed onto a so-so grade Stanley blade.

I can see him looking for a better quality, But, Hock, Japan Wood Worker, Lie Nielsen all make fine quality afer market blades for most Stanley models.

Dave Fleming
02-09-2006, 05:00 PM
I wonder how they'd do for wood? Why bother? Seems like a big expense to have TCT tips brazed onto a so-so grade Stanley blade.

I can see him looking for a better quality, But, Hock, Japan Wood Worker, Lie Nielsen all make fine quality afer market blades for most Stanley models.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Roger.
Cemented carbides can be taken up to well over 1000 degrees without any loss of properites so it can be silver soldered quite easily. That's the way that carbide is mounted to single point cutting tools.
I've heard that it can also be deposited in thin coatings by using electrical discharge machining. But when you talk about arc welding there are all kinds of hard coatings and facings that can be applied. Whether or not there are "carbide" rods among them is open to question. I've never heard it mentioned but, I've been away from that stuff for a few years.
In order for "shop talk" to be of use it has to be specific. It will take names and numbers and techniques to parse this out correctly.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Roger.
Cemented carbides can be taken up to well over 1000 degrees without any loss of properites so it can be silver soldered quite easily. That's the way that carbide is mounted to single point cutting tools.
I've heard that it can also be deposited in thin coatings by using electrical discharge machining. But when you talk about arc welding there are all kinds of hard coatings and facings that can be applied. Whether or not there are "carbide" rods among them is open to question. I've never heard it mentioned but, I've been away from that stuff for a few years.
In order for "shop talk" to be of use it has to be specific. It will take names and numbers and techniques to parse this out correctly.

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Roger.
Cemented carbides can be taken up to well over 1000 degrees without any loss of properites so it can be silver soldered quite easily. That's the way that carbide is mounted to single point cutting tools.
I've heard that it can also be deposited in thin coatings by using electrical discharge machining. But when you talk about arc welding there are all kinds of hard coatings and facings that can be applied. Whether or not there are "carbide" rods among them is open to question. I've never heard it mentioned but, I've been away from that stuff for a few years.
In order for "shop talk" to be of use it has to be specific. It will take names and numbers and techniques to parse this out correctly.