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Paul Pless
04-15-2014, 04:12 PM
http://www.fontainedesigngroup.com/assets/Uploads/_resampled/SetWidth700-1106-006-r4-Flat.jpg

Hwyl
04-15-2014, 04:15 PM
Just what I would have expected from them. I miss Ted Hood.

johnw
04-15-2014, 04:15 PM
That isn't a catboat.

moTthediesel
04-15-2014, 04:30 PM
Looks decidedly sloopy to me.....

OK, maybe a bit cutterish.....

Todd D
04-15-2014, 04:31 PM
As John said, that isn't a cat boat. The only 36' production catboat I am aware of is the Nonsuch 36.

johnw
04-15-2014, 04:33 PM
Having the mast that far aft used to be associated with cutters. And there were plenty of cutters and plenty of sloops with plumb stems.

Lovely boat, though, which is really the point.

bogdog
04-15-2014, 05:36 PM
Nice dodger...just kidding.

Paul Pless
04-15-2014, 05:39 PM
http://www.fontainedesigngroup.com/our-designs-2/new-designs/design-1106c-36-catboat/

johnw
04-15-2014, 06:02 PM
http://www.fontainedesigngroup.com/our-designs-2/new-designs/design-1106c-36-catboat/

Yes, he can say what he likes, but it's not a catboat under any useful definition of the type. There were catboats with jibs, but they had the mast in the eyes of the vessel, like all other catboats.

Jim Ledger
04-15-2014, 06:11 PM
Except for the tiller steering that boat's WAY too sensible to qualify as a catboat!

Ian McColgin
04-15-2014, 06:12 PM
What came out was inspired by a catboat, which is even pictured, but it's not called a catboat by the designer.

Hwyl
04-15-2014, 06:32 PM
Ted Fontaine grew up sailing Beetle cats Ah-ha.

johnw
04-15-2014, 06:40 PM
What came out was inspired by a catboat, which is even pictured, but it's not called a catboat by the designer.

You didn't follow the link:


Design 1106C - 36' Catboat -
Design 1106C is a note worthy design in that this 36' Catboat was the initial conceptual design prepared for what became the Friendship 36. (http://www.fontainedesigngroup.com/our-designs-2/less-than-80-feet-sailing/friendship-2/)



Saying it's so doesn't make it so. The boat reminds me a bit of Mischief, the Cary Smith designed sloop that defended the America's Cup.

http://america-scoop.com/images/profils/1881/MischiefBdN.png

rbgarr
04-15-2014, 06:44 PM
Quoting the designer from the site::

"Ironically, through my research of ‘the prettiest cat boats’ I found a designer / builder named Gilbert Munroe Smith...."

What irony? I'm wondering if he actually sailed Beetle Cats on Buzzards Bay as he claims.

Ian McColgin
04-15-2014, 07:25 PM
Take a peak at the lower right label on the sail plan drawing.

http://www.fontainedesigngroup.com/assets/Uploads/_resampled/SetWidth270-1106-006-r4-Flat.jpg

Hwyl
04-15-2014, 07:30 PM
He's covering his bases, look at the bottom left corner.

Ian McColgin
04-15-2014, 07:52 PM
Yeah. Project name versus . . . the sloop rig.

Hwyl
04-15-2014, 08:02 PM
It's too much of a mish mash of styles for me.

bamamick
04-15-2014, 08:09 PM
I'm confused (again).

Mickey Lake

David W Pratt
04-16-2014, 10:20 AM
Staysail should be smaller so it doesn't whack the mast on every tack
Would prefer a gaff rig

rbgarr
04-17-2014, 06:43 AM
It's too much of a mish mash of styles for me.

I agree: a Friendship sloop's oval cabin and cockpit arrangement, a catboat or 'quay punt' workboat plumb bow and a perky yacht stern under a modern rig. It's a caricature of 'styling cues'... but to each his own in the age of 'Spirit of Tradition" yacht design for the uber~wealthy.

Todd D
04-17-2014, 08:38 AM
Despite supposedly being "inspired" by a cat boat, that boat has virtually nothing in common with any cay I have ever seen except the almost plumb bow.

Gerarddm
04-17-2014, 09:42 AM
That boat is not designed; it's styled.

Ian McColgin
04-17-2014, 10:05 AM
There are boats, illustrated here by the Marshall 22, that come as sloop or catboat.

http://old.catboats.org/images/c4s_images/c4s_157/157-27-photo(Miraglia).JPG

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/picmarshall22ab.jpg

JimD
04-17-2014, 10:11 AM
Doesn't do much for me. Looks like a pastiche gleaned from at least three different boats. The hull I like. The cabin/cockpit I could learn to live with, and the rig goes with neither.

johnw
04-17-2014, 03:02 PM
There are boats, illustrated here by the Marshall 22, that come as sloop or catboat.

http://old.catboats.org/images/c4s_images/c4s_157/157-27-photo(Miraglia).JPG

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/picmarshall22ab.jpg

Yes, and in the early days of the New York oyster boats, many sailed as sloops in the summer and catboats in the winter. But they did know when the boat was sailing as a sloop and when it was sailing as a catboat. However, this boat is of a size that did not alternate between catboat and sloop, and it is in fact a sloop.

Ian McColgin
04-17-2014, 03:06 PM
Look to the mast placement. The Marshall sloop and Marshall catboat are quite different and there's only the one mast step. There are boats like Spaulding Dunbar's Monomoy sloop that was built with two steps and two partners just in case you wanted to sail as a catboat. That was unpopular enough that when a deck was rebuilt the foreward partners were simply decked over. The step stayed. I'll look for a picture.

On many Cape Cod catboats used in fishing a bowsprit and jib were indeed sported in the summer, but those boats remained catboats.

Edited to add: Catabout, not Monomoy

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/252762_1771778569371_4243920_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/254822_1771778769376_988847_n.jpg

johnw
04-17-2014, 03:47 PM
Yes, and Marshall promoted the sloop version of their boat as a Noank sloop. Catboats with jibs had their mast in the eyes of the vessel. Take Harbinger, for example:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FxsEIG-xhy8/TtVE2F6OL8I/AAAAAAAACzI/Lj3LhgIEL68/s512/Top-3.jpg

rbgarr
04-17-2014, 06:24 PM
Look to the mast placement. The Marshall sloop and Marshall catboat are quite different and there's only the one mast step.

Look at the photos again: the sloop's mast goes through the cabin top, the catboat's through the foredeck. The mast steps can't possibly be in the same place.

Todd D
04-17-2014, 06:31 PM
Despite moving the mast aft to allow the Marshall 22 to be sloop rigged, the hull retains the classic catboat form (very beamy, flay bottomed and shoal draft). The hull form on the Fontaine 36 bears absolutely no resemblance to a cat boat hull form.

johnw
04-17-2014, 06:35 PM
Look at the photos again: the sloop's mast goes through the cabin top, the catboat's through the foredeck. The mast steps can't possibly be in the same place.

I think he means each has one mast step, unlike the jib & mainsail boats that could switch between being sloops and catboats.

Ian McColgin
04-17-2014, 07:02 PM
johnw is correct. I apologize for sloppy writing fortuitously corrected by the pix. So far as I've seen, no Marshall 22s have two mast positions in one boat the way Dunbar's catabouts do.