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View Full Version : Another shooting. Sounds like a hate crime.



Shang
04-13-2014, 06:46 PM
"...Shots were fired behind the Jewish Community Center of Greater Kansas City in a parking lot about 1 p.m., Douglass said. One male died at the scene, another male died at a hospital. The gunman then fled and opened fire at nearby Village Shalom, killing a female, before later being arrested near an elementary school. Two other people were shot at, but the gunfire missed them, Douglass said.

Douglass said it was too early in the investigation to determine if the shootings were hate crimes. The Jewish festival of Passover begins Monday.

"We know it was a vicious act of violence, and we know obviously it was at two Jewish facilities. One might make that assumption," Douglass said..."


Happened in Overland Park, Kansas--that's the town I grew up in.

Phillip Allen
04-13-2014, 06:55 PM
mass-shooting... two now?

in any case, he's obviously some sort of nut

BTW I went up there with my nephew to watch him work last winter... construction stuff and the center is very close to the job site

Hwyl
04-13-2014, 07:07 PM
Terrible, it's early to say if it's a hate crime.

Shang
04-13-2014, 07:09 PM
mass-shooting... two now?

in any case, he's obviously some sort of nut...



No one said "mass shooting," but there were three people killed.

Obviously the shooter is exactly the sort of nut we all worry about--a deranged loony with a gun.

bogdog
04-13-2014, 07:11 PM
mass-shooting... two now?

in any case, he's obviously some sort of nut

BTW I went up there with my nephew to watch him work last winter... construction stuff and the center is very close to the job site

He was probably another patriotic law abiding citizen until today. BTW I have family there at the UK Medical Center.

Shang
04-13-2014, 07:17 PM
Terrible, it's early to say if it's a hate crime.

The shootings took place in the parking lot of Village Shalom, just before The Jewish festival of Passover, perhaps the shooter thought he was taking aim at the Easter Bunny.

Lew Barrett
04-13-2014, 07:38 PM
In any case, it's not a mass killing here until at least ten are shot.

Phillip Allen
04-13-2014, 07:50 PM
I would swear I read the word 'mass'... maybe it was edited (has anyone noticed we can now edit our thread titles?)

in any event, it's a bad deal... I"m glad they got him alive... I hate it when the perps are killed and there's no one to tell us what he had in mind

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-13-2014, 07:52 PM
It's not really news. In the United States every year, about 32000 people die by gunshot.... about 90 every day EVERY DAY.

Phillip Allen
04-13-2014, 07:54 PM
It's not really news. In the United States every year, about 32000 people die by gunshot.... about 90 every day EVERY DAY.

are you including people killed by police and suicides?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-13-2014, 07:55 PM
Yes, Phillip I am. They were shot by guns, and now they're dead.

Yep, still dead

Per Capita gun deaths by country.

Austria 2.95

Canada 2.38

Denmark 1.45

France 3.01

Germany 1.24

Japan 0.06

New Zealand. 1.45

UK 0.25

United States 10.3

Phillip Allen
04-13-2014, 08:09 PM
listen to this... just over 11 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFyy1ZaddXM

SMARTINSEN
04-13-2014, 08:53 PM
Phillip's knee jerks quite predictably.

Ian McColgin
04-13-2014, 09:17 PM
For actual reporting on the story:

Reuters
7:10 p.m. CDT, April 13, 2014

OVERLAND PARK, Kansas (Reuters) - Three people were killed Sunday afternoon at two different Jewish community facilities in a Kansas City-area suburb, and a man was in custody as authorities investigated whether or not the shootings were anti-Semitic, authorities said.

Police said it was too early to determine a motive for the shootings, but they were not ruling out the possibility that the shootings were a hate crime. They have called in the Federal Bureau of Investigation to assist with the investigation, Overland Park Police Chief John Douglass said in a news conference.

"We know it's a vicious act of violence. Obviously two Jewish facilities, one might make that assumption." Douglass said.

The incident comes a day before the Jewish holiday Passover. The shootings started around 1 p.m. at the Jewish Community Center of Greater Kansas City in Overland Park, Kansas. Two male victims in a parking lot outside the center were shot, with one dying at the scene and another later at a hospital. The shooter then drove just a mile away to the Village Shalom retirement community that provides skilled nursing services for residents. A female was shot and killed there, Douglass said.

Two other people were shot at, but not hit, the police chief said, and a shotgun was involved and possibly other types of guns.

The suspect, a bearded white male in his 70s, was taken into custody in the parking lot of a nearby elementary school, Douglass said. Douglass declined to identify the suspect, but said he was not from Kansas.

Douglass said he could not confirm reports from witnesses that the suspect had yelled "Heil Hitler" while in the back of the squad car after being taken into custody.

"The suspect in the back of a car made several statements," Douglass said. "We are sifting through and vetting those for accuracy, number one, and number two we are looking at them for their evidentiary value."

The Jewish Community Center, which is also the site of Kansas City's only Jewish community day school, the Hyman Brand Hebrew Academy, was a hub of activity on Sunday. Several youth groups were meeting, some people were auditioning in the facility's theater for an upcoming music production, people were exercising in the center's gym, and the academy was preparing for a school dance.

Many non-Jewish people regularly were involved in the facility's many activities.

Bailey Wainestock, 16, was one of nine teenagers attending a youth organization meeting at the community center when the shooting took place. They barricaded the door and remained locked in for more than an hour until security officers rushed them out.

"We didn't know what to think, we were all in shock," Bailey Wainestock told Reuters.

Her father, David Wainestock, who rushed to the Jewish center to retrieve his daughter, said the situation was terrifying.

"It's pretty traumatic," David Wainestock said. "The thought of something like that happening is terrifying. "In the Midwest we think we're safe from this type of thing. But I guess it doesn't make any difference now."

Rabbi David Glickman, of the Beth Shalom Synagogue in Overland Park, also rushed to the Jewish Community Center when he heard the news of the shooting.

The Kansas City area has a Jewish community of about 20,000.

"This is so abberational. Everybody is shocked that it would happen here," said Glickman. "This is a community that enjoys very strong and positive relations between the Jewish community and the rest of the community."

Kansas Governor Sam Brownback called the shootings "senseless."

"We will pursue justice aggressively for these victims," Brownback said in a statement.

(Reporting by Kevin Murphy and Carey Gillam in Kansas City; Editing by Ellen Wulfhorst, Frances Kerry and Meredith Mazzilli)

SMARTINSEN
04-13-2014, 09:39 PM
SPLC says that a noted anti-Semite has been arrested.

oznabrag
04-13-2014, 09:52 PM
A very common characteristic on this forum.

Wow.

Gerarddm
04-14-2014, 12:29 AM
The bedraggled scruffy looking suspect at one point yelled 'Heil Hitler". Sure sounds like a hate crime to me.

Peerie Maa
04-14-2014, 02:20 AM
A 73-year-old man opened fire outside a Jewish centre and nearby retirement community in Kansas City on Sunday, killing three people including a 14-year-old boy, police said. The suspect was identified as Frazier Glenn Cross by authorities in Kansas, and by the Southern Poverty Law Center as Frazier Glenn Miller, a longtime anti-Semite who is the former grand dragon of the Carolina Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. from http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/13/three-killed-boy-critical-kansas-shootings

Hwyl
04-14-2014, 05:24 AM
Terrible, it's early to say if it's a hate crime.
It's no longer too early.

Ian McColgin
04-14-2014, 06:21 AM
If this case has relevance for gun control, it's that you don't need an "assault weapon". Shotguns of normal size are about the least regulated firearm in this nation.

bogdog
04-14-2014, 06:31 AM
Sounds like the guy lived in Missouri down in the southwest corner above Arkansas.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 08:47 AM
If this case has relevance for gun control, it's that you don't need an "assault weapon". Shotguns of normal size are about the least regulated firearm in this nation.

Hey, Ian, can you give us a defination of what you think of as an assault weapon... just so we're all on the same page?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 08:55 AM
I'm not keeping close on this incident but it appears to be a hate crime (another topic would be how thought police can tell when hate exists)
and SW Missouri is filled with small towns and seemingly remote places... also a few larger towns. It’s about 50 years behind most more common social advancement (it seems so to me… ) also lots of Amish and Mennonites. It’s not hard for me to imagine it as a hang out for extremists. But… there are lots of good folks down there too so let us not get carried away.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 08:57 AM
what makes anyone think that doing such violence will solve problems... (sigh)

bogdog
04-14-2014, 09:00 AM
I suspect that whole part of the country is filled with unreconstructed extremists, probably been that way since the 1860s.

oznabrag
04-14-2014, 09:05 AM
If this case has relevance for gun control, it's that you don't need an "assault weapon". Shotguns of normal size are about the least regulated firearm in this nation.

Also the most devastating. A pump shotgun with 8 2-3/4" rounds of #1 buck can deliver ~144 .30" balls downrange in about 10-15 seconds.

Each of those pellets is potentially lethal and, if delivered using an 18" barrel, will spread out into a pattern about 3-4' in diameter at 100 feet.

When some movie-theater shooter shows up with one of those, it is gonna be a LOT uglier than usual.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 09:09 AM
I suspect that whole part of the country is filled with unreconstructed extremists, probably been that way since the 1860s.

I wonder why these people cling to such foolishness... don't they think of having a real life?

bogdog
04-14-2014, 09:27 AM
I wonder why these people cling to such foolishness... don't they think of having a real life?

With many state governments essentially validating discrimination legislatively there's absolutely no reason people shouldn't cling to such foolishness.

bogdog
04-14-2014, 09:28 AM
It's okay with me.

Strange thread drift when we have dead Jewish people lying in morgues. But if your concerned about gay-bashers right now, then go for it.How many were Jewish?

BrianW
04-14-2014, 09:43 AM
I apologize for trying to empathize with the victims, their families, and the Jewish Community.

Obviously some folks have other agendas for this thread, so I'll let them have at it.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 09:46 AM
Perhaps we could start with religious conservatives, and their attitudes about homosexuality... there are FAR more of them, than there are antisemites.

have you ever noticed that in the bilge, Islam is to be accepted, Judaism is also to be accepted but Christianity is bashed regularly? It seems odd to me that where atheists used to want to be allowed not to believe that now they demand that others not be allowed to believe...

religion is very devisive in many ways

Gerarddm
04-14-2014, 10:21 AM
Phillip, you are being dense. ANY firearm is an assault weapon, jeez.

oznabrag
04-14-2014, 10:25 AM
have you ever noticed that in the bilge, Islam is to be accepted, Judaism is also to be accepted but Christianity is bashed regularly? It seems odd to me that where atheists used to want to be allowed not to believe that now they demand that others not be allowed to believe...

religion is very devisive in many ways

Rightwing, 'Christian' BIGOTS, get bashed here regularly, but not NEARLY enough.

This Jesus person would be one of the foremost bigot-bashers, were he alive today.

Look at those wretched freaks of nature that call themselves the Westboro Baptist Church, why dontcha, and tell me that if Jesus were alive today he would not show up at their service and burn their church to the ground?

Westboro is merely one of the more visible founts of hatred and bigotry and hypocrisy masquerading as 'Christian'.

The entire 'faith' in these United States has become so saturated with hatred and greed, that any honest Christian should renounce them completely and work to destroy them.

They are just like Republicans in that regard.

Practically every, single Republican Party official, elected or otherwise, spews hatred, fear and lies non-stop. Anyone who calls themselves a 'Republican', embraces and supports this hatred, fear and lies. By identifying oneself as Republican, one identifies oneself as being represented by the Republican Party, which is all about fear, lies, loathing and hatred in support and defense of greed.

So, yeah, 'Christians' are just about as evil as Republicans, because they are both COWARDS.

Chip-skiff
04-14-2014, 11:45 AM
How many were Jewish?

According to this morning's NY Times, perhaps only one of the three killed:

Two of the victims were identified on Sunday night as Dr. William Lewis Corporon and his grandson Reat Griffin Underwood. Reat was a freshman at Blue Valley High School and an Eagle Scout, according to a statement from their family. Dr. Corporon was a “well-loved physician in the Johnson County community,” and he and his wife had been married for almost 50 years. Both victims were members of the nearby United Methodist Church of the Resurrection.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/14/us/3-killed-in-shootings-at-jewish-center-and-retirement-home-in-kansas.html?_r=0

The alleged shooter had a long history of harrassing black and Jewish victims and was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, among other groups.

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 12:08 PM
Rabbi Herbert Mandl, chaplain for the Overland Park Police Department, told CNN (http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2014/04/13/nr-sot-rabbi-kansas-shootings.cnn.html)that the shooter was shouting neo-Nazi slogans as he was taken away. Mandl also said he was asking people whether they were Jewish before he fired. And KCTV (http://www.kctv5.com/story/25235053/shooting-reported-at-overland-park-jewish-community-center) reported he was yelling “Heil Hitler” during the arrest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/14/man-arrested-in-jewish-community-shootings-reportedly-longtime-ku-klux-klan-leader/

Is the Klan designated a "Domestic Terrorist Organization"?

ccmanuals
04-14-2014, 12:09 PM
have you ever noticed that in the bilge, Islam is to be accepted, Judaism is also to be accepted but Christianity is bashed regularly? It seems odd to me that where atheists used to want to be allowed not to believe that now they demand that others not be allowed to believe...

religion is very devisive in many ways

Never noticed this. Can you provide examples?

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 12:11 PM
Can you provide examples?Literally, LOL.

John Smith
04-14-2014, 12:17 PM
Yes, Phillip I am. They were shot by guns, and now they're dead.

Yep, still dead

Per Capita gun deaths by country.

Austria 2.95

Canada 2.38

Denmark 1.45

France 3.01

Germany 1.24

Japan 0.06

New Zealand. 1.45

UK 0.25

United States 10.3

There seem to be those among us that think this is a good thing to lead the world in. USA; #1

Keith Wilson
04-14-2014, 12:22 PM
where atheists used to want to be allowed not to believe that now they demand that others not be allowed to believe... Eh? Where has anyone been 'not allowed to believe'? Insulting religions or religious people doesn't count; this may be stupid or impolite, but it never prevents anyone from believing anything.

Flying Orca
04-14-2014, 12:27 PM
Phillip's just pulling stuff out of his Anything Box™ again. I'm probably one of the most "militant" atheists around here, and though I would celebrate the relegation of religion to history as I would smallpox, I've never suggested people shouldn't be able to believe what they want.

Inflicting it on their kids, now, that's another thread...

John Smith
04-14-2014, 12:29 PM
have you ever noticed that in the bilge, Islam is to be accepted, Judaism is also to be accepted but Christianity is bashed regularly? It seems odd to me that where atheists used to want to be allowed not to believe that now they demand that others not be allowed to believe...

religion is very devisive in many ways

I only see Christians trying to pass laws forcing me to live by their beliefs.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 12:40 PM
Phillip, you are being dense. ANY firearm is an assault weapon, jeez.

any assault (golf) clubs in your house? any assault knives in your kitchen?

I know that I have several assault guns... including an assault flint-lock rifle

NOW who is being dense?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 12:44 PM
Rightwing, 'Christian' BIGOTS, get bashed here regularly, but not NEARLY enough.

This Jesus person would be one of the foremost bigot-bashers, were he alive today.

Look at those wretched freaks of nature that call themselves the Westboro Baptist Church, why dontcha, and tell me that if Jesus were alive today he would not show up at their service and burn their church to the ground?

Westboro is merely one of the more visible founts of hatred and bigotry and hypocrisy masquerading as 'Christian'.

The entire 'faith' in these United States has become so saturated with hatred and greed, that any honest Christian should renounce them completely and work to destroy them.

They are just like Republicans in that regard.

Practically every, single Republican Party official, elected or otherwise, spews hatred, fear and lies non-stop. Anyone who calls themselves a 'Republican', embraces and supports this hatred, fear and lies. By identifying oneself as Republican, one identifies oneself as being represented by the Republican Party, which is all about fear, lies, loathing and hatred in support and defense of greed.

So, yeah, 'Christians' are just about as evil as Republicans, because they are both COWARDS.

WOW! Speaking of founts of hatred and bigotry!

John Smith
04-14-2014, 12:45 PM
WOW! Speaking of founts of hatred and bigotry!

Did he get any facts wrong? Is it bigotry if it's true?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 12:48 PM
Eh? Where has anyone been 'not allowed to believe'? Insulting religions or religious people doesn't count; this may be stupid or impolite, but it never prevents anyone from believing anything.

yes, it does count... do you think I can insult Islam without the management of this forum banishing me... I was warned once and given a time out for conparing the westboro 'leader' to another middle eastern religion... are you saying that doesn't count either?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 12:52 PM
Did he get any facts wrong? Is it bigotry if it's true?

lets start with this 'fact'
"The entire 'faith' in these United States has become so saturated with hatred and greed, that any honest Christian should renounce them completely and work to destroy them.

They are just like Republicans in that regard."

I see no qualificaations at all... simply all republicans... and you can't see it because of your own b*****y I suppose

how can YOU be that dense???

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 12:53 PM
I was warned once and given a time out for conparing the westboro 'leader' to another middle eastern religion... are you saying that doesn't count either?Banned just once? You live a charmed life.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 12:56 PM
I only see Christians trying to pass laws forcing me to live by their beliefs.

what about the middle eastern countries who pass laws to the effect that one must at least go through the 'motions' of believing?

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 01:01 PM
What about them? Is there anything in their Constitutions that assures freedom of religion?

Chip-skiff
04-14-2014, 01:04 PM
The shooter, who hated Jews and blacks, managed to kill three white Christians.

"Frazier Glenn Cross Jr., 73, of Aurora, Mo., — who is better known as Fraizer Glenn Miller — could be charged as soon as Tuesday in Johnson County District Court, where he likely will face murder counts. The southwest Missouri man long has been known for deeply anti-Semitic and racist statements. He was a Ku Klux Klan grand dragon at one time and founded the White Patriot Party in the 1980s.

Reat Griffin Underwood, 14, and his grandfather, William Lewis Corporon, 69, were killed about 1 p.m. outside the Jewish Community Center, where Reat planned to audition as part of a contest. Reat was a freshman at Blue Valley High School. His grandfather was a physician. Terri LaManno, 53, of Kansas City was killed at the Village Shalom assisted living facility in Overland Park. She went there every Sunday to visit her mother, a resident of the facility, authorities said.
Reat and his grandfather were Methodists. LaManno was a Catholic."


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/14/4959101/kansas-city-mother-third-victim.html#storylink=cpy

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 01:09 PM
What about them? Is there anything in their Constitutions that assures freedom of religion?

Isn't that the point? laws that ban belief in religion?... Christian religion?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 01:11 PM
The shooter, who hated Jews and blacks, managed to kill three white Christians.

"Frazier Glenn Cross Jr., 73, of Aurora, Mo., — who is better known as Fraizer Glenn Miller — could be charged as soon as Tuesday in Johnson County District Court, where he likely will face murder counts. The southwest Missouri man long has been known for deeply anti-Semitic and racist statements. He was a Ku Klux Klan grand dragon at one time and founded the White Patriot Party in the 1980s.

Reat Griffin Underwood, 14, and his grandfather, William Lewis Corporon, 69, were killed about 1 p.m. outside the Jewish Community Center, where Reat planned to audition as part of a contest. Reat was a freshman at Blue Valley High School. His grandfather was a physician. Terri LaManno, 53, of Kansas City was killed at the Village Shalom assisted living facility in Overland Park. She went there every Sunday to visit her mother, a resident of the facility, authorities said.
Reat and his grandfather were Methodists. LaManno was a Catholic."


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/14/4959101/kansas-city-mother-third-victim.html#storylink=cpy


I think our shooter ran for office once as a democrat...

Peerie Maa
04-14-2014, 01:13 PM
yes, it does count... do you think I can insult Islam without the management of this forum banishing me... I was warned once and given a time out for conparing the westboro 'leader' to another middle eastern religion... are you saying that doesn't count either?

Well that was ill considered. Compare the leader of Westborough with Abu Ben Hamsa and I might agree with you, compare The Anglican faith with Islam, also OK, but don't confuse bigots of one faith with the mainstream of the other..

Peerie Maa
04-14-2014, 01:16 PM
Isn't that the point? laws that ban belief in religion?... Christian religion?

The Spanish Christian kings set that precedent when they booted out the Moors and started prosecuting the Jews who the Moors had encouraged into Spain.

Chip-skiff
04-14-2014, 01:18 PM
I think our shooter ran for office once as a democrat...

For those among us with no knowledge of US politics, nor perhaps a functioning memory, southern racists were predominately Democrats until Lyndon Johnson (a Democrat) managed to push civil rights laws through congress. At that point, the conversion of racists, white supremacists, and segregationists to the Republican party commenced. The former slave states are today overwhelmingly Republican.

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 01:22 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by John of Phoenix http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4128171#post4128171)
What about them? Is there anything in their Constitutions that assures freedom of religion?
Isn't that the point? laws that ban belief in religion?... Christian religion?So you're not content to "bring democracy to the Middle East" you want to bring them some Christianity to go with it. As well as things are working here, it's doubtful anyone would appreciate either.

When you see "The Islamic Republic of _________________" what does that tell you?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 01:24 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by John of Phoenix http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4128171#post4128171)
What about them? Is there anything in their Constitutions that assures freedom of religion?So you're not content to "bring democracy to the Middle East" you want to bring them some Christianity to go with it. As well as things are working here, it's doubtful anyone would appreciate either.

John... your discussion was about laws banning a religion... are you changing the topic or just desperate?

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 01:26 PM
You're not smart enough to understand it? Follow your own advice - "Think about it."

When you see "The Islamic Republic of _________________" what does that tell you?

ccmanuals
04-14-2014, 01:27 PM
I think our shooter ran for office once as a democrat...

In a 2010 radio interview, Frazier Glenn Miller, the man suspected of killing three people on Sunday at a Jewish community center and a Jewish retirement center in Kansas, said he was interested in the tea party, voiced support for then-Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and spoke approvingly of Ron Paul, the Texas Republican congressman and presidential candidate. In late April 2010, Miller, a former Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon, was a guest on The David Pakman Show, a nationally syndicated left-of-center radio and television program. At the time, Miller was running for US Senate as an independent in his home state of Missouri with the slogan, "It's the Jews, Stupid," and Pakman pressed Miller on his extreme views.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 01:30 PM
it really IS a pity that such idiots are amongst us... but there seems to be an abundance of them no matter 'where' one looks. :)

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 01:32 PM
it really IS a pity that such idiots are amongst us... but there seems to be an abundance of them no matter 'where' one looks. :)A travesty.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 01:34 PM
John seems to be on a roll. I might be sorry I freightened him before he calms down again

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 01:36 PM
freightened How DOES one do that? :D
-------------------
AGAIN - When you see "The Islamic Republic of _________________" what does that tell you?

Why can't you reds answer a direct question?

Phillip Allen
04-14-2014, 01:38 PM
sorry folks... I'll leave so you can get back on topic as John won't let me do it by other means

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 01:42 PM
:D Who's "freightened" now? :D

Why can't you reds ever just answer a direct question?

oznabrag
04-14-2014, 02:30 PM
what about the middle eastern countries who pass laws to the effect that one must at least go through the 'motions' of believing?

You wanna talk about how oppressive Muslim Theocracies can get?

No?

You wanna talk about how people are mean to so-called Christians? Christians who are diligently, assiduously, stealthily and militantly trying to turn the US into just such a theocratic hell?

No?

You wanna talk about how people are mean to those other so-called Christians? The Christians who are either too polite or too timid or too scared of the hate and power that this monster named 'Christianity' has become to confront it?

No?

How about how those other so-called Christians allow the monster to grow? To threaten our Liberty? Our First Amendment? Do they simply figure, 'Hey! I'm a 'Christian'! I don't have anything to worry about!'?

Just to get started, do you wanna talk about how Christ was clearly a fierce, raging, Warrior King whose fury could not be held? That, if Jesus were to see what these insects have done in his name, smites would be smote! :D ...
...

No?

Do you wanna talk about sins of omission? Cause, that's what it's all about for me.

When Reverend Gooberhead Jones declares in the name of Jesus that God Hates Fags, and good, honest 'Christians' do not become filled with ferocious fury, they are the problem. They are not being true to their faith in the Warrior of Love. IMO, Ol' Goob has more grace than they do.

I realize that's an 'opinion'.

I also realize that you really are shy about sharing any of your opinions. In fact, it seems almost as though you are SO careful against any possibility that you might express a position, that you have avoided forming one for years!

:D
_____________

I have to say, here, that the best Christian I have met anywhere is our own TomF.

John of Phoenix
04-14-2014, 03:10 PM
You wanna talk about how oppressive Muslim Theocracies can get?

No?

You wanna talk about how people are mean to so-called Christians? Christians who are diligently, assiduously, stealthily and militantly trying to turn the US into just such a theocratic hell?

No?

You wanna talk about how people are mean to those other so-called Christians? The Christians who are either too polite or too timid or too scared of the hate and power that this monster named 'Christianity' has become to confront it?

No?

How about how those other so-called Christians allow the monster to grow? To threaten our Liberty? Our First Amendment? Do they simply figure, 'Hey! I'm a 'Christian'! I don't have anything to worry about!'

Just to get started, do you wanna talk about how Christ was clearly a fierce, raging, Warrior King whose fury could not be held? That, if Jesus were to see what these insects have done in his name, smites would be smote! :D ...
...

No?

Do you wanna talk about sins of omission? Cause, that's what it's all about for me.

When Reverend Gooberhead Jones declares in the name of Jesus that God Hates Fags, and good, honest 'Christians' do not become filled with ferocious fury, they are the problem. They are not being true to their faith in the Warrior of Love. IMO, Ol' Goob has more grace than they do.

I realize that's an 'opinion'.

I also realize that you really are shy about sharing any of your opinions. In fact, it seems almost as though you are SO careful against any possibility that you might express a position, that you have avoided forming one for years!

:D
_____________

I have to say, here, that the best Christian I have met anywhere is no better than our own TomF.All well said, especially the last. +1

Flying Orca
04-14-2014, 05:22 PM
any assault (golf) clubs in your house? any assault knives in your kitchen?

Anything close to 53 mass shootings (so far this year) with "assault clubs" or "assault knives"?

Hardly a valid comparison, is it...

oznabrag
04-14-2014, 05:28 PM
All well said, especially the last. +1

I've edited that 'last'.

The way it was to begin with just didn't seem right.

Jim Bow
04-14-2014, 05:33 PM
This website is run by a company called Woodenboat Magazine. They are in the business of selling their publications, educational opportunities, and supplies. They have a right, make that a necessity, to not insult prospective customers. Why would then want to turn away business. If you want to exercise complete and unregulated freedom of speech, grab a soapbox and set it up in your front yard. Climb on and let 'er fly.

Gerarddm
04-15-2014, 08:55 AM
Right wing terrorists are more of a factual danger than Islamic ones, in the US:

http://us.cnn.com/2014/04/14/opinion/bergen-sterman-kansas-shooting/index.html?sr=sharebar_twitter

I am really angry about this guy. How can this happen in a supposedly enlightened society? In a word he is human filth and certainly deserves the death penalty a) if convicted in a court of law and b) his state has one.

Shang
04-15-2014, 09:39 AM
it really IS a pity that such idiots are amongst us... but there seems to be an abundance of them no matter 'where' one looks. :)

And those abundant idiots are among us with guns.

Phillip Allen
04-15-2014, 12:25 PM
And those abundant idiots are among us with guns.

thank you for seeking out common ground between us... it's obvious that you want consensus and not simply control of others

Gerarddm
04-16-2014, 12:37 AM
No Phillip, still you obfuscate. Get off your knees at The Temple Of The Gun. The main purpose of golf clubs is to frustrate people. ( LOL ). The main purpose of knives is to star in late night Ginsu infomercials ( also LOL ). The main purpose of firearms is to kill something, anything ( not very LOL at all ).

...and I equate your Middle East ayatollahs with their American version each and every time.

oznabrag
12-30-2014, 08:45 PM
How did THIS thread end up on the list?

Holy Guacamole!