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clive
09-17-2000, 11:41 PM
One of the problems with wooden boats (along with fiberglas) is that when striking something hard, like reefs, cargo containers, concrete piers, etc., they tend to sustain extensive damage and often sink. Is there any product out there which would substantially increase the strength of wood? For example, would it be possible to take something like waterproof wood glue, thin it down with something which would rapidly evaporate, and saturate a wooden boat hull in this (one small section at a time, perhaps) with the result that , when dry, the hull would be much stronger than before?

clive
09-17-2000, 11:41 PM
One of the problems with wooden boats (along with fiberglas) is that when striking something hard, like reefs, cargo containers, concrete piers, etc., they tend to sustain extensive damage and often sink. Is there any product out there which would substantially increase the strength of wood? For example, would it be possible to take something like waterproof wood glue, thin it down with something which would rapidly evaporate, and saturate a wooden boat hull in this (one small section at a time, perhaps) with the result that , when dry, the hull would be much stronger than before?

clive
09-17-2000, 11:41 PM
One of the problems with wooden boats (along with fiberglas) is that when striking something hard, like reefs, cargo containers, concrete piers, etc., they tend to sustain extensive damage and often sink. Is there any product out there which would substantially increase the strength of wood? For example, would it be possible to take something like waterproof wood glue, thin it down with something which would rapidly evaporate, and saturate a wooden boat hull in this (one small section at a time, perhaps) with the result that , when dry, the hull would be much stronger than before?

noquiklos
09-18-2000, 12:33 AM
Nope.
Roy

noquiklos
09-18-2000, 12:33 AM
Nope.
Roy

noquiklos
09-18-2000, 12:33 AM
Nope.
Roy

TomRobb
09-18-2000, 08:15 AM
If you want to be bullet proof, heavy gauge steel ought to do the job. Maybe you could get an old demilitarized heavily armoured cruiser from those mysterious sources that sell WWII jeeps still in the original cosmolene for $25, or how about Israeli shaped charge armour? http://media4.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif
Seriously, Roy's right. And the "saturation" of wood with magic potions is what the Bros. Gougeon are in business for.
If you're question is about a clear and present problem and you find a way to fix it, everyone here will thank you profusely.

TomRobb
09-18-2000, 08:15 AM
If you want to be bullet proof, heavy gauge steel ought to do the job. Maybe you could get an old demilitarized heavily armoured cruiser from those mysterious sources that sell WWII jeeps still in the original cosmolene for $25, or how about Israeli shaped charge armour? http://media4.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif
Seriously, Roy's right. And the "saturation" of wood with magic potions is what the Bros. Gougeon are in business for.
If you're question is about a clear and present problem and you find a way to fix it, everyone here will thank you profusely.

TomRobb
09-18-2000, 08:15 AM
If you want to be bullet proof, heavy gauge steel ought to do the job. Maybe you could get an old demilitarized heavily armoured cruiser from those mysterious sources that sell WWII jeeps still in the original cosmolene for $25, or how about Israeli shaped charge armour? http://media4.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif
Seriously, Roy's right. And the "saturation" of wood with magic potions is what the Bros. Gougeon are in business for.
If you're question is about a clear and present problem and you find a way to fix it, everyone here will thank you profusely.

Gary Bergman
09-18-2000, 08:38 AM
I struck something like you describe recently, didn't sink, just cracked a plank or two, and moved on for repair. Had it been possible to 'harden' as you imply, the impact would most likely have made a large hole and sunk like a fiberglas boat. The flexibility of wooden vessels has been proven to me,at least. Why try to change a good thing?

Gary Bergman
09-18-2000, 08:38 AM
I struck something like you describe recently, didn't sink, just cracked a plank or two, and moved on for repair. Had it been possible to 'harden' as you imply, the impact would most likely have made a large hole and sunk like a fiberglas boat. The flexibility of wooden vessels has been proven to me,at least. Why try to change a good thing?

Gary Bergman
09-18-2000, 08:38 AM
I struck something like you describe recently, didn't sink, just cracked a plank or two, and moved on for repair. Had it been possible to 'harden' as you imply, the impact would most likely have made a large hole and sunk like a fiberglas boat. The flexibility of wooden vessels has been proven to me,at least. Why try to change a good thing?

Dave Carnell
09-19-2000, 07:48 AM
Except on end grain, no epoxy penetrates sound wood.

Gougeon originally called their system W.E.S.T, for "woode epoxy saturation treatment. They made it WEST when it was obvious there wasn't any saturation going on.

Dave Carnell
09-19-2000, 07:48 AM
Except on end grain, no epoxy penetrates sound wood.

Gougeon originally called their system W.E.S.T, for "woode epoxy saturation treatment. They made it WEST when it was obvious there wasn't any saturation going on.

Dave Carnell
09-19-2000, 07:48 AM
Except on end grain, no epoxy penetrates sound wood.

Gougeon originally called their system W.E.S.T, for "woode epoxy saturation treatment. They made it WEST when it was obvious there wasn't any saturation going on.

NormMessinger
09-19-2000, 10:06 AM
"Except on end grain, no epoxy penetrates sound wood."

That is my understanding as well. So where does that leave the small amount of epoxy that is in CPES? Mostly on the surface, eh?

--Norm

NormMessinger
09-19-2000, 10:06 AM
"Except on end grain, no epoxy penetrates sound wood."

That is my understanding as well. So where does that leave the small amount of epoxy that is in CPES? Mostly on the surface, eh?

--Norm

NormMessinger
09-19-2000, 10:06 AM
"Except on end grain, no epoxy penetrates sound wood."

That is my understanding as well. So where does that leave the small amount of epoxy that is in CPES? Mostly on the surface, eh?

--Norm

wandiwise
09-19-2000, 12:42 PM
Norm, that's been my experience. Thanks for saying it; somebody needed to. Terrible stuff to handle, too.

www

wandiwise
09-19-2000, 12:42 PM
Norm, that's been my experience. Thanks for saying it; somebody needed to. Terrible stuff to handle, too.

www

wandiwise
09-19-2000, 12:42 PM
Norm, that's been my experience. Thanks for saying it; somebody needed to. Terrible stuff to handle, too.

www

thechemist
09-19-2000, 02:07 PM
I do not think CPES penetrates sound wood any further than the open porosity of it. The paper posted at www.woodrestoration.com (http://www.woodrestoration.com) has an extensive series of time-lapse photographs that bear this out. The stuff preferentially penetrates the deteriorated parts of wood while water preferentially penetrates the sound parts.

As for damage protection of wood boats, one could gain considerable protection with a layer of something which absorbed or at least temporarily stored energy as it crushed. There are a wide variety of materials that could be engineered into such "armor", but to turn a short, high-amplitude pulse of force into a longer-lasting, lower amplitude pulse would take a thickness of material on the order of the distance the vessel traveled in the extended impact time...guess about a half a second or more, and you have a thickness on the order of a foot. Not exactly what you would want to add onto the hull shape, but it could be done. Styrofoam slabs are now being inserted inside the reinforcements on california's freeways as part of the seismic upgrade...the stuff acts like a shock absorber due to the trapped air. That could work pretty well, I think, if it had an outer shell sufficiently thick to resist puncture by the sharp edge of the flotsam or jetsam...probably an eighth of an inch of epoxy/kevlar composite...that should work.

I seriously doubt anyone will want to put such a meteorite shield on the front of their wood boat...but that is the order of magnitude of structure required.

Short range sonar [think "fish-finder"] should work for detecting oncoming solids well before impact, allowing evasive action. Mount the transducer on the bow, well below water, aimed forward. There will be "air clutter" [in airborne radar it is called "ground clutter"] but one should be able to distinguish floating hazards.

thechemist
09-19-2000, 02:07 PM
I do not think CPES penetrates sound wood any further than the open porosity of it. The paper posted at www.woodrestoration.com (http://www.woodrestoration.com) has an extensive series of time-lapse photographs that bear this out. The stuff preferentially penetrates the deteriorated parts of wood while water preferentially penetrates the sound parts.

As for damage protection of wood boats, one could gain considerable protection with a layer of something which absorbed or at least temporarily stored energy as it crushed. There are a wide variety of materials that could be engineered into such "armor", but to turn a short, high-amplitude pulse of force into a longer-lasting, lower amplitude pulse would take a thickness of material on the order of the distance the vessel traveled in the extended impact time...guess about a half a second or more, and you have a thickness on the order of a foot. Not exactly what you would want to add onto the hull shape, but it could be done. Styrofoam slabs are now being inserted inside the reinforcements on california's freeways as part of the seismic upgrade...the stuff acts like a shock absorber due to the trapped air. That could work pretty well, I think, if it had an outer shell sufficiently thick to resist puncture by the sharp edge of the flotsam or jetsam...probably an eighth of an inch of epoxy/kevlar composite...that should work.

I seriously doubt anyone will want to put such a meteorite shield on the front of their wood boat...but that is the order of magnitude of structure required.

Short range sonar [think "fish-finder"] should work for detecting oncoming solids well before impact, allowing evasive action. Mount the transducer on the bow, well below water, aimed forward. There will be "air clutter" [in airborne radar it is called "ground clutter"] but one should be able to distinguish floating hazards.

thechemist
09-19-2000, 02:07 PM
I do not think CPES penetrates sound wood any further than the open porosity of it. The paper posted at www.woodrestoration.com (http://www.woodrestoration.com) has an extensive series of time-lapse photographs that bear this out. The stuff preferentially penetrates the deteriorated parts of wood while water preferentially penetrates the sound parts.

As for damage protection of wood boats, one could gain considerable protection with a layer of something which absorbed or at least temporarily stored energy as it crushed. There are a wide variety of materials that could be engineered into such "armor", but to turn a short, high-amplitude pulse of force into a longer-lasting, lower amplitude pulse would take a thickness of material on the order of the distance the vessel traveled in the extended impact time...guess about a half a second or more, and you have a thickness on the order of a foot. Not exactly what you would want to add onto the hull shape, but it could be done. Styrofoam slabs are now being inserted inside the reinforcements on california's freeways as part of the seismic upgrade...the stuff acts like a shock absorber due to the trapped air. That could work pretty well, I think, if it had an outer shell sufficiently thick to resist puncture by the sharp edge of the flotsam or jetsam...probably an eighth of an inch of epoxy/kevlar composite...that should work.

I seriously doubt anyone will want to put such a meteorite shield on the front of their wood boat...but that is the order of magnitude of structure required.

Short range sonar [think "fish-finder"] should work for detecting oncoming solids well before impact, allowing evasive action. Mount the transducer on the bow, well below water, aimed forward. There will be "air clutter" [in airborne radar it is called "ground clutter"] but one should be able to distinguish floating hazards.

Steve Souther
09-27-2000, 06:45 PM
The oil in horses hide really harden wood over time. Just look at a stall where one has been kept--especially walnut. Here in Southern Kansas lots of walnut has been used in construction and it's about as hard as iron when horses have been around it.

Now to get a horse aboard your boat....

\Steve

Steve Souther
09-27-2000, 06:45 PM
The oil in horses hide really harden wood over time. Just look at a stall where one has been kept--especially walnut. Here in Southern Kansas lots of walnut has been used in construction and it's about as hard as iron when horses have been around it.

Now to get a horse aboard your boat....

\Steve

Steve Souther
09-27-2000, 06:45 PM
The oil in horses hide really harden wood over time. Just look at a stall where one has been kept--especially walnut. Here in Southern Kansas lots of walnut has been used in construction and it's about as hard as iron when horses have been around it.

Now to get a horse aboard your boat....

\Steve