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View Full Version : Should Planned Parenthood be doing Abortions?



genglandoh
04-03-2014, 08:12 AM
In another thread about moving abortions from Clinics to Hospitals some have brought up the subject of Planned Parenthood.
I think the subject is interesting enough to have its own thread.

I have a problem with Planned Parenthood doing abortions because it is a clear conflict of interest.

Planned Parenthood does the following things
1. Gives advice about family planning – this is a good service.
2. Gives advice about the options when a woman has an unwanted pregnancy – this is a good service.
3. Makes a profit when a woman decides to have an abortion – a clear conflict of interest.

bogdog
04-03-2014, 08:16 AM
You haven't even answered the questions posed to you in the other thread. What are you doing to protect women's rights? Complaining about those who do?

BrianY
04-03-2014, 08:25 AM
How is this any different from what any responsible medical establishment that perfroms abortions would do? I mean, any decent hospital is going to give family planning advice and talk about options and make $$ off of the abortions they perform. Are you suggesting that abortions should not be performed by any organization that provides the other two services? That's stupid. There is no more conflict of interest there than there is is any other medical service. Doctors advise patients on options then they perform procedures and they and their hopsital or clinic make $$ as a result.

But I suspect that you know this already.

Keith Wilson
04-03-2014, 08:32 AM
Why is an abortion different than any other optional medical procedure?

John Smith
04-03-2014, 08:33 AM
Why is it my business if someone else wishes to terminate their pregnancy? Why should we force a woman to have a child she doesn't want?

Tom Montgomery
04-03-2014, 08:37 AM
How is this any different from what any responsible medical establishment that perfroms abortions would do? I mean, any decent hospital is going to give family planning advice and talk about options and make $$ off of the abortions they perform. Are you suggesting that abortions should not be performed by any organization that provides the other two services? That's stupid. There is no more conflict of interest there than there is is any other medical service. Doctors advise patients on options then they perform procedures and they and their hopsital or clinic make $$ as a result.

But I suspect that you know this already.Yep.

Either Graham didn't think this one through before posting or else he is simply trolling again.

Ian McColgin
04-03-2014, 08:40 AM
Some OP assumptions are based on profound and possibly deliberate ignorance.

Planned parenthood provides much more than "Gives advice about family planning . . . Gives advice about the options when a woman has an unwanted pregnancy . . ." [OP]

Depending upon the facility, they provide a range of medical services, OB-GYN consults, prescriptions, cancer screening, etc. Very few PP facilities actually provide abortions. Those that do provide abortions do so because there is no alternative anywhere near by.

All PP facilities that I know of work on a sliding fee scale. They don't "make money" off anything. This is unlike the traditional American medical economics model that works rather like an auto repair shop, only making money if they can convince you something is wrong that they can fix.

varadero
04-03-2014, 08:45 AM
I have always like Skippers comment on abortion issues. i believe it was along the lines of, " untill the feotus can survive outside of the host, it is a growth"

bogdog
04-03-2014, 08:50 AM
I have always like Skippers comment on abortion issues. i believe it was along the lines of, " untill the feotus can survive outside of the host, it is a growth"Most abortions occur before there is even a fetus.

LeeG
04-03-2014, 08:55 AM
This is hysterical.

"Doctors should not practice because they work in businesses that charge fees, pay bills and aren't money losing operations"

Tom Montgomery
04-03-2014, 08:57 AM
It is NOT a blastocyst or a zygote or an embryo or a fetus... it is a BABY!

Get with the program people! How can you expect to eventually outlaw abortion if you neglect to employ the proper rhetoric??? Try using the word "infanticide" instead of "abortion." The religious right will love you for it.

Where is Sam F when we really need him?

LeeG
04-03-2014, 08:59 AM
In another thread about moving abortions from Clinics to Hospitals some have brought up the subject of Planned Parenthood.
I think the subject is interesting enough to have its own thread.

I have a problem with Planned Parenthood doing abortions because it is a clear conflict of interest.

Planned Parenthood does the following things
1. Gives advice about family planning – this is a good service.
2. Gives advice about the options when a woman has an unwanted pregnancy – this is a good service.
3. Makes a profit when a woman decides to have an abortion – a clear conflict of interest.

Are you conflicted when you receive payment for your work?

bogdog
04-03-2014, 09:02 AM
It is NOT a blastocyst or a zygote or an embryo or a fetus... it is a BABY!

Get with the program people! How can you expect to eventually outlaw abortion if you neglect to employ the proper rhetoric??? Try using the word "infanticide" instead of "abortion." The religious right will love you for it.

Where is Sam F when we really need him?I could play that role, let me first get a bucket from the mudroom to catch the mess when I get sick.

LeeG
04-03-2014, 09:04 AM
It is NOT a blastocyst or a zygote or an embryo or a fetus... it is a BABY!

Get with the program people! How can you expect to eventually outlaw abortion if you neglect to employ the proper rhetoric??? Try using the word "infanticide" instead of "abortion." The religious right will love you for it.

Where is Sam F when we really need him?

I was reading a review yesterday about a movie documenting Donald Rumsfeld. One of the skills and pleasures Rumsfeld has is redefining reality to bring others into his or blur the lines between very distinct things for the sake of an argument or program. Very smart people can do it as well as not so smart. Building castles in the sand.

Gerarddm
04-03-2014, 09:06 AM
. Some OP assumptions are based on profound and possibly deliberate ignorance.


Wouldn't that be MOST Genglandoh assumptions?

Keith Wilson
04-03-2014, 09:11 AM
Genglandoh - Why is an abortion different in this respect than any other optional medical procedure?

John Smith
04-03-2014, 09:12 AM
It is NOT a blastocyst or a zygote or an embryo or a fetus... it is a BABY!

Get with the program people! How can you expect to eventually outlaw abortion if you neglect to employ the proper rhetoric??? Try using the word "infanticide" instead of "abortion." The religious right will love you for it.

Where is Sam F when we really need him?

Is it your opinion an egg is a chicken? A polliwog a frog? Once an egg is penetrated by the sperm, it is a potential human being until such time as it is a human being.

All that said, If you get pregnant, you have an absolute right to carry the pregnancy to term based upon your beliefs. What gives you the right to impose YOUR beliefs on those who believe differently? What gives you the right to deny someone else a legal procedure?

Flying Orca
04-03-2014, 09:14 AM
Makes a profit when a woman decides to have an abortion – a clear conflict of interest.

So let me get this straight - are you suggesting that a business that offers advice AND the recommended service should stop providing the service because it's a conflict of interest?!

That would certainly change the face of business. Imagine if your plumber, mechanic, or banker was only allowed to recommend a service, not provide it. Imagine the jobs that would be created! Graham, you're a freakin' genius.

John Smith
04-03-2014, 09:21 AM
The conflict of interest I see is forcing clinics that provide family planning services to close, then not wanting to adequately fund the food stamp and welfare programs so the unwanted kids at least get to eat.

Keith Wilson
04-03-2014, 09:26 AM
Is it your opinion an egg is a chicken?You missed Tom's sarcasm completely.

LeeG
04-03-2014, 10:08 AM
Genglandoh - Why is an abortion different in this respect than any other optional medical procedure?

This is where Graham stops responding. A friend had back surgery that was....not in a hospital! I had a vasectomy that was ...not in a hospital! Four wisdom teeth removed...not in a hospital!

Yet he can innocently opine that hospitals are a preferred setting for abortion where closing clinics is the reality. That is his idea of supporting women.

Gotta say when my brother and I flew out to Los Angeles to get dad through the county hospital to a rehab facility then out to New Orleans where my brother lived it was a nightmare, I mean the staff worked very hard but the place dealt with everyone other hospitals didn't/couldn't deal with. Metal detectors going in and all the people coming through ER who don't have regular care. This is Graham's preferred setting. This is a dishonest argument he's attempting to push. But no consequences for him.

Keith Wilson
04-03-2014, 10:31 AM
One more time:


Why is an abortion different in this respect than any other optional medical procedure?

Jim Bow
04-03-2014, 11:17 AM
And, no one has pointed out that Planned Parenthood is a non-profit organization. I'm not positive, but I believe that they do not charge for their services.

Bumper sticker quote, "If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."

Keith Wilson
04-03-2014, 11:19 AM
Planned Parenthood is non-profit, but they do charge for some services.

bogdog
04-03-2014, 11:48 AM
Planned Parenthood is non-profit, but they do charge for some services.They do charge and it varies from center to center based on costs for the same procedures in other local for profit clinics. The difference being that those fees are rolled over into running other clinic programs. Since public funding has been reduced, costs in many clinics have been increased. Some insurance policies will cover part or all costs for services at PP clinics. A slight aside, of all of Planned Parenthood reproductive care services less than 4% are abortion services. Our local Virginia Beach clinic was purpose built and I'd rate it as a better environment for the work they do than any hospital regardless of the occasional ignorant pickets out front. One of our other local non-profit clinics closed because the need has decreased here. That's the result of reproductive education, opposed by conservatives, and it's the only way to reduce abortion.

mikefrommontana
04-03-2014, 11:57 AM
I would think that for Planned Parenthood, abortion is the least preferred alternative. If their clients were paying attention and using other methods, then there should be no "accidental" pregnancies.

However, nothing is foolproof and it is a legal service they offer. I don't think it is offered or accepted lightly.

bogdog
04-03-2014, 12:00 PM
I would think that for Planned Parenthood, abortion is the least preferred alternative. If their clients were paying attention and using other methods, then there should be no "accidental" pregnancies.

However, nothing is foolproof and it is a legal service they offer. I don't think it is offered or accepted lightly.

You'd be surprised how many pregnancies occur in women on a regular birth control program.

genglandoh
04-03-2014, 02:51 PM
One more time:


Why is an abortion different in this respect than any other optional medical procedure?


Sorry I had to do a few things.

I agree with your point.

Abortion should not be treated differently.

Today most States do not INSPECT abortion clinics including Planned Parenthood.

Why is this different from other medical facilities?

As a result many abortion clinics are unsafe and unclean places.
All I am asking to improve these conditions.

Why are you and others pushing back against fixing the problem?

BrianY
04-03-2014, 02:58 PM
Why are you and others pushing back against fixing the problem?

Nobody is opposed to fixing the problem. In fact, I'd be willing to bet all the $ in my wallet right now that EVERYBODY that supports allowing abortions anywhere - clinics or hospitals - also supports the idea that the faciltiies should be inspected and they and they staff that work in them should be the best they can be.

Anyone here disagree? All in favor of poorly run, ill-equipped abortion serivce providers please speak up now!

So, why do you think that this is not the case?

Keith Wilson
04-03-2014, 02:59 PM
Why is this different from other medical facilities?Is it? Are other outpatient medical facilities inspected? Dentists' offices? Are abortion clinics really treated differently or not? How do you know?


As a result many abortion clinics are unsafe and unclean places.And you know this how? Horror stories are often exaggerated and almost never representative. The clinics I've been in have seemed very well-run, although I'm certainly no expert.

Canoeyawl
04-03-2014, 03:46 PM
"More deaths at the dentist's office this year than all abortion clinics combined"



Today most States do not INSPECT abortion clinics including Planned Parenthood.

Why is this different from other medical facilities?

As a result many abortion clinics are unsafe and unclean places.

Why are you and others pushing back against fixing the problem?

To define "the problem" we would need truth not ambiguity, "most states" or "many clinics" won't work.
It seems to me that some rephrasing to, Why am I against clinics? Instead of, "Why are you not supporting women?"

The following is all BS, truth would help your argument but not to your advantage...

Let’s review what we have learned
1. Many states have laws that do not require inspections of abortion clinics.
2. In States that do inspect abortion clinics many have not been inspected for years.
3. Many abortion clinics are unclean.
4. Many horror stories from these clinics.

If you really care about the health of Women you would support moving abortions to better facilities.



Why are you not supporting Women?

bogdog
04-03-2014, 03:58 PM
Sorry I had to do a few things.

I agree with your point.

Abortion should not be treated differently.

Today most States do not INSPECT abortion clinics including Planned Parenthood.

Why is this different from other medical facilities?

As a result many abortion clinics are unsafe and unclean places.
All I am asking to improve these conditions.

Why are you and others pushing back against fixing the problem?

Excuse me but there is a national organization that certifies abortion clinics for those who wish it. I suggest contacting your local Planned Parenthood organization and ask them to educate you. I'm certain they would be more than willing to talk to you.

John Smith
04-03-2014, 07:17 PM
I would think that for Planned Parenthood, abortion is the least preferred alternative. If their clients were paying attention and using other methods, then there should be no "accidental" pregnancies.

However, nothing is foolproof and it is a legal service they offer. I don't think it is offered or accepted lightly.

Nothing is foolproof. People using contraception sometimes get pregnant. Even a very, very small failure rate, over a year, would make for a significant number, would it not?

John Smith
04-03-2014, 07:20 PM
Sorry I had to do a few things.

I agree with your point.

Abortion should not be treated differently.

Today most States do not INSPECT abortion clinics including Planned Parenthood.

Why is this different from other medical facilities?

As a result many abortion clinics are unsafe and unclean places.
All I am asking to improve these conditions.

Why are you and others pushing back against fixing the problem?
No, we're pushing back at efforts to eliminate abortion access.

If you want to argue that abortion clinics are not safe places to have abortions, you're going to have to show us some reliable statistics that contradict the fact the a larger percentage of women die giving birth (in hospitals) than die having abortions in clinics.

In other words, you have to prove something more than whether or not they get inspected: You have to show they are not safe.

LeeG
04-03-2014, 08:43 PM
As a result many abortion clinics are unsafe and unclean places.
All I am asking to improve these conditions.

Why are you and others pushing back against fixing the problem?

You are talking out of your donkey. You know manure about clinics yet you support policies for closing them down. I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

skuthorp
04-04-2014, 03:57 AM
Humans are in plague proportions on most of the planet, not an endangered species.

bogdog
04-04-2014, 06:15 AM
No, we're pushing back at efforts to eliminate abortion access.

If you want to argue that abortion clinics are not safe places to have abortions, you're going to have to show us some reliable statistics that contradict the fact the a larger percentage of women die giving birth (in hospitals) than die having abortions in clinics.

In other words, you have to prove something more than whether or not they get inspected: You have to show they are not safe.

The rate for maternal death in births is eleven times greater than abortion, it really should be outlawed... BTW the US is almost at the bottom of the heap in regards to percentage of maternal death, yet we have the "best" health care in the world. It's been that way for decades and the states that drive that statistic are the ones with the most restrictive access to abortion, they have much to be proud of.