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View Full Version : HD's new liquid cooled Vtwin 500 and 750 cc bikes



Paul Pless
03-17-2014, 05:42 PM
Worthy of comment?

Priced around $6,000.00, clearly aimed at creating an entry level HD buyer experience which will lead to brand loyalty. No surprise that they look like bigger HD's despite the radiator. I see them as an interesting competitor to the basic Triumph twins - performance should be similar. Worth mentioning that the new v-twin is a significant departure from most of the HD engine offering for the last five decades. . .

liquid cooled, 60 degree, overhead cam, four valve per cylinder fuel injected and much lighter in weight

http://pictures.dealer.com/g/grandrapidsharleydavidson/0936/8e3580ba102503d26d593e8644a5c689x.jpg

seanz
03-17-2014, 06:04 PM
I agree with Lefty, totally, sort of.

If HD really want brand loyalty, why did they produce something that looks like a Yamaha?

AnalogKid
03-17-2014, 06:16 PM
The radiator and oil cooler cowling is fugly.

With that rake, I don't see it being much of a challenge to the Triumphs dynamically.

The 500 will probably have some sales success in NZ because, as long as the power-to-weight ratio isn't un-harley high, it'll be learner legal.

The Bigfella
03-17-2014, 06:17 PM
Indian produced. Target market... Asia

33hp and 47hp for the 500 and 750. They better be careful, or the small bikes will be faster than the big bikes

The Bigfella
03-17-2014, 06:22 PM
Link to an Indian article on them

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/harley-davidson-street/street-500-produces-33-5-hp-street-750-outputs-47-hp-of-power/

Cuyahoga Chuck
03-17-2014, 06:28 PM
An hour late and a dollar short.
Other brands went to liquid coolling in the 1970s. I think Suzuki went there in the late 60's with their 2-stroke triple.
Harley has already come up with some quality deviations of the old air-cooled 74 but their apostles didn't bite. They have a rock solid market where buyers all want a reason to get some tattoos, wear leather pants, grow face hair, etc. That means a chome plated HOG.
I just drove up I-95, I-26 and I-77 from Orlando. Some of the faithful were there too coming from cycle week. The faithful were all hauling latemodel H-D twins. or one of the alternative vee-bikes. No Nortons, no BSAs no nothin' but Harleys or harley look-alikes. I've heard the rest of historic bike enthusiasts are now going to Indianapolis for it's cycle week.

Paul Pless
03-17-2014, 06:49 PM
Indian produced. Target market... AsiaWell, sort of, HD has also opened a new facility in Kansas to produce these bikes for the North American market. . .

Paul Pless
03-17-2014, 06:52 PM
I just drove up I-95, I-26 and I-77 from Orlando. Some of the faithful were there too coming from cycle week. The faithful were all hauling latemodel H-D twins. or one of the alternative vee-bikes. No Nortons, no BSAs no nothin' but Harleys or harley look-alikes. I've heard the rest of historic bike enthusiasts are now going to Indianapolis for it's cycle week.

Chuck, if you still have an interest in vintage bikes as well as contemporary bikes, you should make a trip to Barber Motorsports in Birmingham, Alabama sometime. Seriously. Its hard for me to think of a more complete or wide ranging collection of motorcycles well displayed.

StevenBauer
03-17-2014, 07:14 PM
How far is Barber from the old homestead, Paul? I'd love to get down there.


Steven

Paul Pless
03-17-2014, 07:19 PM
How far is Barber from the old homestead, Paul? I'd love to get down there.


Stevenabout 75 miles

jsjpd1
03-17-2014, 08:24 PM
Harley really does need an entry level bike and one better fitted to smaller riders. This seems to check both of those boxes nicely. Plus working out the liquid cooled aspects are important for them as tighter emissions controls are forcing all their bikes to go that way in the next few years, starting with the big touring bikes.

M. J. Notigan
03-17-2014, 08:30 PM
I like it. I wonder if a US Royal Enfield buyer will also look at these, considering how big the Harley dealer network is compared to the spotty RE dealer network. This bike is aimed perfectly for the first time buyer and the young buyer looking to get into bikes.

The Bigfella
03-17-2014, 08:34 PM
Well, sort of, HD has also opened a new facility in Kansas to produce these bikes for the North American market. . .

Existing facility, not even hiring new workers.... according to this

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/11/06/4602128/harleys-kansas-city-plant-to-build.html

jonboy
03-18-2014, 08:00 AM
Beauty is in the eye ....etc etc... but apart from the ugly radiator ( agreed ) I think it's ok...It is not the first liquid cooled HD though, think V Rod... and what new vehicles are not fuel injection these days...aren't carbs a thing of the past...? eco and economy reasons...

I remember when HD, when AMF, bought the Italian small bikes industry Cagiva ( I think).... not a great success commercially even though the bikes were OK

HD are nowadays hugely successful...I think the AMF period should be remembered...we and they, don't need non USA built small bikes, snowmobiles motorhomes and so on.
I am pleased to see the proudly declaring frame sticker on mine saying 'Union made in the US'.

Peter Kalshoven
03-18-2014, 08:45 AM
Don't forget that HD finally has an American-made challenger in their core category. Indian Motorcycles are going to eat into their market share, so they need to explore new market categories.

Peter Kalshoven
03-18-2014, 08:57 AM
Well, sort of. I'm more impressed with Victory Motorcycles, than with Indian, although they both still impress me as more 'HD-wannabe' than unique... but then again, I've never liked that style of bike, so I guess I'm a poor judge.

I like the looks of the Victory, but it is definitely a "Hardley" in the eyes of the faithful. However, Indian has the heritage, the history, and a lot of fans. And it is seen as acceptable by the Harley Only kinda guys, because, well, it's an Indian.

Remember, it doesn't have to make sense. :)

Full Tilt
03-18-2014, 09:03 AM
The beginning of the end for HD.

ccmanuals
03-18-2014, 09:03 AM
Definitely a nice looking ride.

http://polaris.hs.llnwd.net/o40/ind/2014/img/vehicles/cc2g293r9oiaarmdzcg/detail/media_viewer/photos_large/photos_large_5.jpg

Gerarddm
03-18-2014, 01:13 PM
Taste is taste. Perfection for me was the 1969 Triumph Bonneville 650.

That new HD750 looks OK, I guess, except for that radiator.

Landrith
03-18-2014, 02:00 PM
I have been dreaming about a new HD 750 from when they came out at the show. Its true some of the engines will be made in Kansas City, but it is a world bike. I bet Polaris will be copying the concept for Victory in 2 years. The sales literature emphasizes increased suspension travel for the urban environment. My 79 GS 750 is luxury compared to my son's modern Sportster. I think this is the missing thing for Harley to make it in Europe and the developing Asian markets. It may be part of what went wrong with their street tracker version of the Sportster launched in Europe, that and the plastic gas tank problems. Not that plastic gas tanks aren't the miracle answer to gasohol.

Peter Kalshoven
03-18-2014, 03:46 PM
Indian engineers get schooled.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dG2u-SZWY4E

Wish I could have been there.

Stiletto
03-18-2014, 03:56 PM
With the new Harleys having overhead cams and four valve heads there is probably room for development. I'm sure the aftermarket suppliers will get into them.

AnalogKid
03-18-2014, 04:10 PM
I wonder if one of the upgrades will be a radiator that extends out past the width of the frame rails - more power might require better cooling. I think they're trying too hard to pretend the radiator's not there.

seanz
03-18-2014, 04:29 PM
Indian engineers get schooled.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dG2u-SZWY4E

Wish I could have been there.

That was cool. It's a marketing piece, sure, but it's still very cool.

wardd
03-18-2014, 04:35 PM
hino

seanz
03-19-2014, 08:56 PM
I agree with Lefty, totally, sort of.

If HD really want brand loyalty, why did they produce something that looks like a Yamaha?

I take that back, I now think it looks much more like a Honda Shadow.....cept the Shadow is nicer.
:)

seanz
03-19-2014, 08:57 PM
hino

:D.

stevebaby
03-19-2014, 09:13 PM
Beauty is in the eye ....etc etc... but apart from the ugly radiator ( agreed ) I think it's ok...It is not the first liquid cooled HD though, think V Rod... and what new vehicles are not fuel injection these days...aren't carbs a thing of the past...? eco and economy reasons...

I remember when HD, when AMF, bought the Italian small bikes industry Cagiva ( I think).... not a great success commercially even though the bikes were OK

HD are nowadays hugely successful...I think the AMF period should be remembered...we and they, don't need non USA built small bikes, snowmobiles motorhomes and so on.
I am pleased to see the proudly declaring frame sticker on mine saying 'Union made in the US'.Aermacchi.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
03-19-2014, 09:22 PM
If HD really want brand loyalty, why did they produce something that looks like a Yamaha?


Because their principal buyers are stockbrokers and bankers and other girly pussy boys.

I watched an HD on the TV the other night, and a guy driving a dresser looked down at his touch screen on the gas tank, and it said his boss was calling. He switched it off like the outlaw he was. I kind of threw up in my mouth a little.

Paul Pless
03-19-2014, 09:35 PM
I kind of threw up in my mouth a little.LOL iii

DMillet
03-19-2014, 11:33 PM
I've got a 2011 XR1200x Sportster. The year they put the upside down forks and Showa shocks on the replica dirt tracker. 570 something lbs, so it's heavy and only about 76 or so HP. But the fuel injection and suspension are spot on. It's pretty good for what it is. Which is a long legged semi-cruiser. It'll run all day long at 80 mph. These things don't really compete in any way with any other bike on the market. I've got an SV650 that'll blow the HD off the road at half the price. Still, I kinda like the Harley. It fits me in my middle age. Sorta like my Jeep. Nothing about either one that's cutting edge but I'm perfectly happy with both. A big plus is that, unlike the little SV, I have no desire to just whack open the throttle for the thrills. My days of trying to talk my way out of a ticket are over, I'm okay with just cruising along at 7 mph over the limit.

I suspect these new Harleys will find a lot of buyers of the under 30 set that want to buy an American bike. There's still quite a lot of that sentiment in the rural parts of the US. The problem with every other Harley on the road is the price. Bikes are toys, for almost all of us. Cutting edge technology is the way for some, raw and primitive is the way for others. Very few actually expect comfortable, day over day, daily use out of their bikes. Those types won't find much to like about any Harley. That's okay, different strokes and all. If I were 18 again, I'd be looking at these bikes. I hope for HD's sake lots of other kids do too.

The Bigfella
03-23-2014, 09:50 PM
Some photos.

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/harley-davidson-street/2014-harley-davidson-street-750-picture-gallery/

I have to say, it looks a bit povvo-pack

jonboy
03-25-2014, 03:58 AM
Aermacchi.

Who then got sold to Cagiva, and then Finmecchanica.....thought there was a Cagiva connection somewhere, albeit after AMF -H-D

jonboy
03-25-2014, 04:22 AM
Because their principal buyers are stockbrokers and bankers and other girly pussy boys.


might have been so in the eighties when HD went all reliable and forward looking and the girly pussy boys (???) were getting zillions bonuses, but there are still hard core enthusiasts who aren't tossers with bellies beards and tattoos...and the prices have come down relative to other makes....

If these two sell at the 6500 $ more or less, that's cheaper than the equivalent Jap stuff here, and as I've said before on other posts, Of the dozens of bikes I've had in the last forty years, only the eight or so Harleys have I sold for more than I paid for them..eg '72 superglide bought in '74 for the price of a brand new Hodna 750-4, sold three years later for 1000 more, ( the Honda had halved in value) 64 Panhead bought in '88 for 3500, sold twentytwo years later for 8000. a rake of iron and evo stuff always sold for at least what I paid and usually more, always after a couple of years .
The Pan paid for a new Yamaha 40 outboard and the current bike, a 94 1200 Sporty, and the Sporty is worth at least 5000 € about 4000...I paid 4500€ and have used it for four years
Harleys equals free biking as far as I'm concerned.


I say good luck to them

PeterSibley
03-25-2014, 04:23 AM
Aermacchi.

My kind of Harley.

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.607994896200370664&pid=1.7

The Bigfella
04-02-2014, 09:02 PM
First ride report isn't encouraging.

US version had better be a lot better... but with it aimed at shorties...?

http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/harley-davidson-street/2014-harley-davidson-street-750-first-ride-review/

PeterSibley
04-02-2014, 09:18 PM
I wish they would clone the Aermacchi again ! It's hard to improve on for a mid / small bike .

Sailor
04-02-2014, 10:01 PM
I must say I am drawn strongly to the Sportster 1200 forty eight....

Lew Barrett
04-02-2014, 10:05 PM
Aermacchi.
I expect he's thinking of MV. That was a later acquisition and was owned by Castiglione, the same guy who owned
Cagiva before buying MV. It's since been sold back to Castiglione. Harley doesn't get bikes that handle.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-02-2014, 10:08 PM
What happened to the days when none of the numbers matched and everyone smoked a big one before they went riding.

I had to stop doing dope and drinking..... I did my entire life quota by 32. Damn.

DMillet
04-02-2014, 10:08 PM
I must say I am drawn strongly to the Sportster 1200 forty eight....
I kinda like it too. Wish the tank was bigger though, I prefer to get at least a couple hundred miles between fuel stops. My XR1200x does barely 140 before running dry.

DMillet
04-02-2014, 10:10 PM
Harley doesn't get bikes that handle.

For the most part, I agree. But you should take my XR1200 for a spin....

PeterSibley
04-02-2014, 10:24 PM
My '83 BMW R80 ST handles pretty well for an old girl and gets me 400 km / 250 miles between fuel stops.

DMillet
04-02-2014, 10:35 PM
Always wanted a Beemer....

PeterSibley
04-02-2014, 10:50 PM
They're pretty cheap and plentiful in the US ... assuming that's where you are.

The Bigfella
04-02-2014, 10:55 PM
Som makes her Harley look good.... but she shouldn't wear her Triumph helmet when riding the Harley

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Northern%20Thailand/168-1.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Northern%20Thailand/168-1.jpg.html)

DMillet
04-02-2014, 11:15 PM
They're pretty cheap and plentiful in the US ... assuming that's where you are.

That is indeed where I am. It's been seven years of not quite knowing what tomorrow brings. Now that all of that has sorted itself out, for better or worse, maybe there will be some time for me to just try to enjoy the time I have left on this planet. I'm still not so sure that growing up was all I was lead to believe it was. :)

PeterSibley
04-03-2014, 01:03 AM
I got my bike licence when I was 16 and except for a 8 year period of kids, high school expenses and a degree of self imposed poverty , I've had a bike the whole time. I'm 64 now and think I'll be riding for the next 20 years .

Lew Barrett
04-03-2014, 09:33 AM
For the most part, I agree. But you should take my XR1200 for a spin....

I'd be delighted to.

Lew Barrett
04-03-2014, 09:43 AM
Who then got sold to Cagiva, and then Finmecchanica.....thought there was a Cagiva connection somewhere, albeit after AMF -H-D

Cagiva doesn't exist anymore. They folded tent after making some very interesting rides. the CA in Cagiva are the first two letters of Castiglioni's name. The longer version of the story is that Cagiva, (CAtiglioni, GIovani, VArese, the three owners) bought MV as a name and between them resurrected the brand. They got into money woes and eventually Harley bought MV. Harley didn't quite know what to do with MV (similar to the Buell story) and a deal was struck where Castiglioni bought it back for virtually no money at all. MV now appears to be on stable footing.

The Aermacchi deal was HD's attempt to get into the little bike business and at this point is ancient history. It is unconnected to the MV business.

DMillet
04-03-2014, 09:47 AM
I'd be delighted to.

You ever make it up to Piseco, NY and we'll take a run down Rt. 10. I can scrape the pegs on my SV650 on that road.

Lew Barrett
04-03-2014, 12:54 PM
I kinda like it too. Wish the tank was bigger though, I prefer to get at least a couple hundred miles between fuel stops. My XR1200x does barely 140 before running dry.

I didn't get to say that your bike is maybe the most interesting enthusiast's choice in an HD in years. Although I tent to think it's less likely to become a true collector bike in the vein of the XLCR (times are different), it is still one of the few HDs that are of interest to me. However, and I don't mean to be nasty at all, you might say it stands in its own way as an example of why HD doesn't do sport well. They don't make them anymore, didn't bother to really get behind it and give it the development push it needed to forge a new segment.

HD simply doesn't need to do that at this time, so they don't and they stick with the formula that works for them. It's probably smart business, but it is not appealing to me. I mean, not your bike, which looks like a fun short haul ride, but rather their approach.

The new liquid cooled bikes should have much less rake. It's a deal killer at the entry level.

DMillet
04-03-2014, 03:31 PM
I didn't get to say that your bike is maybe the most interesting enthusiast's choice in an HD in years. Although I tent to think it's less likely to become a true collector bike in the vein of the XLCR (times are different), it is still one of the few HDs that are of interest to me. However, and I don't mean to be nasty at all, you might say it stands in its own way as an example of why HD doesn't do sport well. They don't make them anymore, didn't bother to really get behind it and give it the development push it needed to forge a new segment.

HD simply doesn't need to do that at this time, so they don't and they stick with the formula that works for them. It's probably smart business, but it is not appealing to me. I mean, not your bike, which looks like a fun short haul ride, but rather their approach.

The new liquid cooled bikes should have much less rake. It's a deal killer at the entry level.

Frankly Lew, it was pretty much the only Harley that ever really appealed to me. You're right though, it won't be a collector bike. More like an orphan. Too bad, 'cause HD mostly got things right with this one, although it'd be better if it were 100 lbs lighter. Still, it's a fun ride and the engine is shared among the family so I can just hang onto it forever.

PeterSibley
04-03-2014, 04:14 PM
You ever make it up to Piseco, NY and we'll take a run down Rt. 10. I can scrape the pegs on my SV650 on that road.

That's a bike I've though of buying .

The Bigfella
04-03-2014, 04:26 PM
That's a bike I've though of buying .

Check out the Bridle Track thread on advrider. There's one at the bottom of the cliff. Rider survived, incredibly, after a 70 metre plunge.

Lew Barrett
04-04-2014, 12:05 AM
I just wish HD had been one step more daring with these and made the geometry a bit less cruiser-like. Otherwise, it's a step in the right direction for them. I've come to think it's a design created to establish brand loyalty for a first time buyer rather than to build a smaller, well balanced, highly competent motorcycle. They'll probably do well with them anyway, but if they don't it will be because people looking for mid-sized bikes want more than a small cruiser offers. Steering will likely be slow and heavy.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
04-04-2014, 12:17 AM
Always wanted a Beemer....


I like my K bike. Cheap, reliable, 60mpg,

DMillet
04-04-2014, 06:51 AM
I like my K bike. Cheap, reliable, 60mpg,

Exact description of my SV, right down to the mileage. It's too small for these old bones though. I've always liked the K bikes. I'm gonna have to build a bigger garage if I make any more motorized acquisitions though. That or, god forbid, sell something off.

jonboy
04-04-2014, 10:13 AM
I like my K bike. Cheap, reliable, 60mpg,

biggest single advantage otherwise boring.
flew to UK picked up a twenty year old K100, with all the touring gear for a grand, blasted down through England France Spain 1000 kms a day ...did the job. kept it for a year then swapped it for a dirt bike. No doubt at all the BMW was just about the only bike to do that at 20,(no wait a minute nearly 30, it was '85. ) but honestly it just did not speak to me.... like driving a car... I'll say it again....b o o oring. eminently forgettable apart from the negative aspects it did have....heavy, a suicidal kickstand, wide and fragile if not naked.... I did toy with somehow radically chopping it, but nah...it had to go for something interesting...