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S/V Laura Ellen
03-14-2014, 07:27 AM
I need to replace my water heater (today).
Should I consider a gas fired tankless system?
Anyone here have experience using one?

bogdog
03-14-2014, 07:41 AM
Do you use hydronic heat as well or forced air?

pkrone
03-14-2014, 07:44 AM
I put in tankless water heaters when we built our house 11 years ago. They've been great.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
03-14-2014, 07:44 AM
I need to replace my water heater (today).
Should I consider a gas fired tankless system?
Anyone here have experience using one?
I have a tankless heater, and I'd like my tank back.

David W Pratt
03-14-2014, 07:45 AM
We have tankless in VT
Pro, infinite hot water
Con, low flow shut off, have to have tap pretty wide open.
We have a friend who has a heater with a turbine in it that generates electricity, so it works in power outages
Good luck

moTthediesel
03-14-2014, 07:47 AM
I have tankless LP units (Bosch) installed in almost all our rental units now. They can be a bit finicky, but they do save lots of $ on our gas bill.

Canoez
03-14-2014, 08:27 AM
I need to replace my water heater (today).
Should I consider a gas fired tankless system?
Anyone here have experience using one?

One of the major concerns that I know about the tankless systems is drawing hot water from the tap when you only want a small bit - it takes a minute to get to the tap and the tap has to have enough flow (pressure drop) to activate the heater.

That being said, I know of some folks who have taken care of that issue. They had a Buderus tankless system that provided both domestic hot water as well as baseboard heat. Each room had it's own thermostat and a valve in the basement, so when a zone called for heat, the valve would open and the water would circulate. No pressure drop problem there. For the domestic hot water, they installed a super-insulated tank as a "zone" with a thermostat in it. So, the domestic hot water would come up to temperature based on what the tank temperature was, not the pressure drop. He had a 40 gallon tank and said that they system had never run out of hot water and that the tank would keep the water hot for days - he went away one weekend and there had been a power outage. The power was still out when he returned, but the water was still hot enough to have a shower and do dishes.

bogdog
03-14-2014, 08:33 AM
There are also small tankless electric heaters that could go under the kitchen sink to give faster hot water just for the kitchen faucet and use the larger unit for the rest of the house.

StevenBauer
03-14-2014, 08:36 AM
Have you looked at the heat pump type water heaters? A friend installs them and has good things to say about them. He just put one in his own house.

Mrleft8
03-14-2014, 08:37 AM
The tankless unit at the house we rented on Carriacou in February worked great.

varadero
03-14-2014, 08:47 AM
If you live in a warm climate, tankless is good if the heater is close to the tap. I you live in a cold climate, tank with super insulation and a timer is sooooo much better.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-14-2014, 09:02 AM
Decision made.

Tank style it is.
I was told I would have to wait until the middle of next week to get a tankless unit installed.
That was the tipping point.
In the interest of personal hygiene I decided to stay with a rental tank style heater.
I can always change to a tankless at some time in the future.

Thanks for the input.
You had me convinced to go tankless, but the circumstances wouldn't allow it.

htom
03-14-2014, 09:51 AM
One of the Taunton magazines (Fine Homebuilding?) had an article about how to combine tank and tankless so that you could have the advantages of both. IIRC, you set the well-insulated tank heater to around 85F with a small pump circulating the warm water, and tankless heaters at each hot water use point. You get warm (from the tank) and then hot (from the tankless heater) as you draw more hot water.

Dan McCosh
03-14-2014, 10:08 AM
We have tankless in VT
Pro, infinite hot water
Con, low flow shut off, have to have tap pretty wide open.
We have a friend who has a heater with a turbine in it that generates electricity, so it works in power outages
Good luck Sounds like a solution to the world's energy problems.

bogdog
03-14-2014, 10:18 AM
I use a Weil-McLain hot water storage tank and a Laing re-circulation pump at my faucet furthest from the boiler.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-14-2014, 10:23 AM
I use a Weil-McLain hot water storage tank and a Laing re-circulation pump at my faucet furthest from the boiler.

I'm thinking of putting in a re-circulation pump for the Master en-suite bath, it's fed with a long run of 3/4" pipe and takes a while to get hot water there.

bogdog
03-14-2014, 10:26 AM
I'm thinking of putting in a re-circulation pump for the Master en-suite bath, it's fed with a long run of 3/4" pipe and takes a while to get hot water there.They're not inexpensive but they do work and it has a timer so it's set for the times we use those faucets the most.

Canoez
03-14-2014, 10:26 AM
I'm thinking of putting in a re-circulation pump for the Master en-suite bath, it's fed with a long run of 3/4" pipe and takes a while to get hot water there.

Have you insulated the pipe run? We have a long pipe run in the (unheated) basement from the water heater to the kitchen two of three bathrooms in the house - the insulation has made a huge difference.

Canoez
03-14-2014, 10:27 AM
We have tankless in VT
Pro, infinite hot water
Con, low flow shut off, have to have tap pretty wide open.
We have a friend who has a heater with a turbine in it that generates electricity, so it works in power outages
Good luck

More information, please!

bogdog
03-14-2014, 10:58 AM
Some of the Bosch heater models have a piezo ignition system, which I had considered, can't say as I've heard of a turbine ignition.

S/V Laura Ellen
03-14-2014, 11:26 AM
Have you insulated the pipe run? We have a long pipe run in the (unheated) basement from the water heater to the kitchen two of three bathrooms in the house - the insulation has made a huge difference.

It's insulated where I can get at it. It runs through a heated basement.

skipper68
03-14-2014, 11:39 AM
You might want to look into these Rebates and Grants. I think they are up to date- you can call.
I personally would go Geothermal, if I were a dirt dweller.
http://www.homeperformance.com/ontario-rebates-mississauga-burlington-oakville-brampton-brantford-sarnia

Paul Girouard
03-14-2014, 03:40 PM
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b299/PEG688/image_zps093572a1.jpg


The trick will be getting the re-circ. line from the heater to the value that's the longest distant from the heater heater.

On a recent remodel we added two re-circ. lines one was easy thru the crawl space to beneath the kitchen sink. The other line had to get upstairs. He'd taken out a tank type water heater, and abandoned a "B" type vent pipe that when out thru the roof, my solution was demo the roof top chimney, patch the roof, then we dropped a wire down the old pipe flue to pull the re-circ line up into the attic , as well as two new "home runs" for two electrical circuits we need for the Toto electric toilets we also installed. From there we where able to hook the water re-circ lines to the new shower valves we where installing on the second floor , so one hole in each bathroom on the non shower side wall where the valve was getting replaced , the re-circ water line and the power to feed the Toto toilets.

On Demand is the way to go , UNLESS you have hard water , from what I understand the small radiator style holes in the On Demands can clog quickly if the water is not "pure" / needs a lot of treatment. The minerals clog the system up.

The one photoed above has a recirc pump, the small red thing, a 8 Gal "buffer tank" which prevents what they call "sandwiches" where cold water is trapped between two segments of hot water, and the On Demand , this is a Bosch.

There is a rebate , but the paper work involved is a PITA , and the rebate is pretty small. So whether that's worth pursuing I'm not sure. That rebates for the USA anyway and Allen's in Canuckastan so it doesn't apply ,possibly.

Ted Hoppe
03-14-2014, 11:34 PM
One huge point...If cost is a factor
Tankless water heaters to from 2 to 3 times the cost of a tank heater. A tankless water heater will not last as long as a tank heater. 5 years warranty for good on demand heater and 15 years on a good tank system. The cost works in favor a tank heater. I would think only new construction homes or cabins in the mountains that have water turned off in cold whether with space constructions make for water heaters on demand a good choice. But most do not live or have those needs. In a world which requires people to conserve water, a 5 minute shower will never deminish the hot water demands for folks who use a proper tank heater set for the home/occupancy requirements. Dishwasher, washing machines and any other heated water appliances need less heated water than a residence needs.

also a reminder - everyone who has a tank heater should do... Flush out the tank heater twice a year and the heater will last atleast a 1/3 longer.

Tom Wilkinson
03-15-2014, 07:02 AM
You might want to look into these Rebates and Grants. I think they are up to date- you can call.
I personally would go Geothermal, if I were a dirt dweller.
http://www.homeperformance.com/ontario-rebates-mississauga-burlington-oakville-brampton-brantford-sarnia

Geothermal isn't really a replacement for a water heater. I have a geothermal heat pump and still have a stand alone water heater, though I do get my hot water free for most of the year as a by product of the geo pump. Marathon water heaters have a lifetime warranty on the tank. I'm very happy with mine. I did have an issue with the tank cracking and they replaced it totally free of charge. That was a 15 year old unit and new price was somewhere around 1200.00 at time of replacement.

moTthediesel
03-15-2014, 08:07 AM
Some of the Bosch heater models have a piezo ignition system, which I had considered, can't say as I've heard of a turbine ignition.

The ones we've been using lately have no pilot, but they have a tiny water turbo-generator that creates enough current to fire the piezo lighter. We have eight of those on our rental cottages, and after 5 or so years we have had no trouble with them.

bogdog
03-15-2014, 08:26 AM
The ones we've been using lately have no pilot, but they have a tiny water turbo-generator that creates enough current to fire the piezo lighter. We have eight of those on our rental cottages, and after 5 or so years we have had no trouble with them.Who makes it?

moTthediesel
03-15-2014, 08:29 AM
Who makes it?

Oh, sorry, Bosch....:d

bogdog
03-15-2014, 08:40 AM
Oh, sorry, Bosch....:dSounds pretty neat.
The Bosch Therm 520 HN has an evolutionary hydro-power ignition system that uses the water flow through a small turbine inside the water heater to ignite the burner instead of a standing pilot, grid connection, or battery. The Therm 520 HN is and excellent product for areas or regions prone to inclement weather or power outages.