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View Full Version : what does this mean?... (North Korea/Libya)



Phillip Allen
03-08-2014, 08:25 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/north-korean-flagged-tanker-docked-seized-libyan-oil-093156616--finance.html

Tom Montgomery
03-08-2014, 08:28 PM
It means that Libya is involved in civil war.

What do you think it means?

seanz
03-08-2014, 08:29 PM
It means that people really will go to war for oil?

Phillip Allen
03-08-2014, 08:30 PM
... lots of help here (not)

seanz
03-08-2014, 08:35 PM
:).

Phillip Allen
03-08-2014, 08:37 PM
what-if?

LeeG
03-08-2014, 08:59 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/north-korean-flagged-tanker-docked-seized-libyan-oil-093156616--finance.html

First paragraph covers it.

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Libya threatened on Saturday to bomb a North Korean-flagged tanker if it tried to ship oil from a rebel-controlled port, in a major escalation of a standoff over the country's petroleum wealth.

Xxxxxxxxx

I wonder how camel is served:

local television station controlled by protesters showed footage of pro-autonomy rebels holding a lengthy ceremony and slaughtering a camel to celebrate their first oil shipment. In the distance stood a tanker. The station said the ceremony took place in Es Sider.

LeeG
03-08-2014, 09:03 PM
what-if?

It would help if you could make full sentences. What if shots are fired but not on the tanker, what if shots are fired on rebels, what if the tanker is fired upon, what if the camel tastes bad...

Gerarddm
03-09-2014, 12:40 AM
It means a kerfuffel between two states that can't really get at each other.

LeeG
03-09-2014, 12:58 AM
It means a kerfuffel between two states that can't really get at each other.

I think if a tanker was shot upon that would invite international response as it's not exactly an activity you'd want to see repeated.

Paul Pless
03-09-2014, 01:25 AM
I think if a tanker was shot upon that would invite international response as it's not exactly an activity you'd want to see repeated.you see a rush by the international community to defend the interest of north korea?

Tom Montgomery
03-09-2014, 02:15 AM
It means a kerfuffel between two states that can't really get at each other.
Bingo!

LeeG
03-09-2014, 02:28 AM
you see a rush by the international community to defend the interest of north korea?

I'm not familiar with the ships that take on oil there, are they all North Korean? If it wasn't an NK ship but an Italian or Chinese would it really matter? I just don't think you'd want to see tankers as targets regardless who is buying the oil.

Phillip Allen
03-09-2014, 04:43 AM
Is it a tempest in a tea pot then? what about all that 'oil-spil' if the ship is destroyed?

skuthorp
03-09-2014, 06:28 AM
Cutting off nose to spite face comes to mind.

Phillip Allen
03-09-2014, 06:31 AM
do you suppose it is a serious threat?

skuthorp
03-09-2014, 06:34 AM
G'day Phillip, nice to see you about again.

Brinkmanship maybe, but it may be that both sides have limited control of their forces, or it may be that they like it to seem that way.

Phillip Allen
03-09-2014, 06:44 AM
G'day Phillip, nice to see you about again.

Brinkmanship maybe, but it may be that both sides have limited control of their forces, or it may be that they like it to seem that way.

it seems to me that if the oil gets dumped into the sea, it would be a good way to get the rest of the world in deeper

LeeG
03-09-2014, 09:09 AM
Is it a tempest in a tea pot then? what about all that 'oil-spil' if the ship is destroyed?

Not to those living there or the tanker. Somewhere between a shot over the bow and complete destruction are a range of possibilities. If it spills it spills, it wouldn't be the first time.

LeeG
03-09-2014, 09:15 AM
Cutting off nose to spite face comes to mind.

Yep

Gerarddm
03-09-2014, 10:54 AM
Is it a tempest in a tea pot then? what about all that 'oil-spil' if the ship is destroyed?

I was talking politics, not spill remediation.

LeeG
03-11-2014, 07:35 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26519285

Ian McColgin
03-11-2014, 07:40 AM
This is not unlike the Israeli navy intercepting fishing and other vessels attempting to land supplies in Palestine. A normal use of force between opposing sides.

LeeG
03-12-2014, 04:21 PM
Hey Phillip, here's a bit more meaning

http://www.juancole.com/2014/03/parliament-thinni-tanker.html

While the situation in Libya is a mess, it should be pointed out that it is a real achievement that the country has an elected parliament and an elected constituent assembly to draft a constitution. It is an achievement that parliament can remove an ineffectual prime minister with a vote of no-confidence. Since the founding of the modern state in the early 1950s, Libya was either ruled by fiat by a king or a dictator. It had too much order and too little social and political development. Critics of the head of state were arrested in the middle of the night and tortured and then plowed into mass graves. Now, Libya’s parliamentary politics may be no-holds-barred, but the members were freely elected from local constituencies and the prime minister can be unseated with a vote of the people’s representatives. The government is too weak and national unity and the economy are threatened as a result. But as long as representative institutions can function and improve over time, there is some hope for the future. Those who think Libyans were better off under a cruel and arbitrary and frankly mad dictatorship are badly mistaken and should examine their moral compasses.

LeeG
03-18-2014, 05:46 PM
Update

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-seals-board-north-korea-flagged-tanker-for-return-to-libya/2014/03/17/ddab14bc-add6-11e3-9627-c65021d6d572_story.html

A team of U.S. Navy SEALs boarded an oil tanker Sunday night in the Mediterranean Sea in an apparent bid to prevent the delivery of Libyan crude worth several million dollars that members of a militia had been attempting to sell, according to U.S. and Libyan officials.
....
Libya’s fledgling government had strongly opposed the sale of oil by a militia in eastern Libya and at one point threatened to bomb the tanker, which it said at the time was a North Korean-flagged vessel. When it set sail last week, outraged lawmakers ousted Prime Minister Ali Zeidan through a no-confidence vote and installed the country’s defense minister as interim leader. Zeidan had become deeply unpopular for failing to rein in the militias that emerged during Libya’s 2011 civil war.
...
The dispute over the ship underscored the weakness of the Libyan government and the extent to which the Obama administration is willing to use military force to support an oil-rich nation still reeling from the aftermath of its civil war.

“The Libyan Interim Government confirms that the sale of Libyan oil is the main source of national income and any illegal removal will not be tolerated,” the Libyan government said. The statement credited the United States and Cyprus with helping stop the shipment.

skuthorp
03-18-2014, 06:45 PM
There's a fair chance that the the Assad regime will survive. The alternatives may be worse now that various internationally sponsored and terrorist groups are involved. If Assad falls the the groups would turn on each other, as they seem to have in some cases already. For the west Assad may be the best of a bad lot, a factor I'm sure he knows and is counting on. I don't imagine Syria's neighbours want an ongoing civil war and a failed state on their boundaries, especially one supported by Russia for strategic reasons. Much the same reason that the US supports Israel despite their malfeasance re the Palestinnians.

Gerarddm
03-18-2014, 11:03 PM
Interesting that the North Koreans disavowed the ship the week before the US team went onboard, or else NK would have been in their usual puerile uproar.

beernd
03-19-2014, 02:09 AM
For the west Assad may be the best of a bad lot.
I think that this is also true for the Syrians.
As a anonymous fugitive said: "Assad is bad, but the alternative is far worse"

SMARTINSEN
03-19-2014, 06:29 AM
“The Libyan Interim Government confirms that the sale of Libyan oil is the main source of national income and any illegal removal will not be tolerated,” the Libyan government said. The statement credited the United States and Cyprus with helping stop the shipment.

Saw this the other day.
Thanks, Obummer.

Osborne Russell
03-19-2014, 08:10 AM
This is not unlike the Israeli navy intercepting fishing and other vessels attempting to land supplies in Palestine. A normal use of force between opposing sides.

How about France preventing supplies being landed for Cornwallis?

Osborne Russell
03-19-2014, 08:11 AM
Saw this the other day.
Thanks, Obummer.

I don't get it. What's your objection?

LeeG
03-19-2014, 10:10 AM
I don't know. In a sense we're stopping the theft of Libya's wealth by a splinter militia. I would hope there are other efforts to assist reconciliation

SMARTINSEN
03-19-2014, 12:00 PM
I don't get it. What's your objection?

Just a snark, Os. The President actually signed off on the operation, but Grandpa and his two Granddaughters are still calling him a wussy. We are simply assisting the legitimate government of Libya, not that the President will gain any street cred out of it.

Osborne Russell
03-19-2014, 12:30 PM
Just a snark, Os. The President actually signed off on the operation, but Grandpa and his two Granddaughters are still calling him a wussy. We are simply assisting the legitimate government of Libya, not that the President will gain any street cred out of it.


Grandpa Obama?:confused:

mikefrommontana
03-19-2014, 12:48 PM
Grandpa = Cheney.... methinks