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TEWK
09-03-2003, 07:52 PM
I am having difficulty in finding suitable replacements for a pair of very worn-out halyard winches. They are for wire, not rope, made of bronze with the ratchet mechanism more or less external - on the back side of the drum, but not encased. The release is simply a lever, which by a cam, presses on the latch, lifting it clear of the teeth. The winch handle is removed by sliding it out of the two bronze straps on the 'top' of the drum. The winch assembly has an integral 4 1/8" square mounting plate/base with a 4 bolt pattern 3 1/2" square. The drum measures 2 3/8" across with a 1 3/4" diameter on the working surface.

If anyone knows where I can find replacements or something that could work that is similar in construction, please help us.

TEWK
09-03-2003, 07:52 PM
I am having difficulty in finding suitable replacements for a pair of very worn-out halyard winches. They are for wire, not rope, made of bronze with the ratchet mechanism more or less external - on the back side of the drum, but not encased. The release is simply a lever, which by a cam, presses on the latch, lifting it clear of the teeth. The winch handle is removed by sliding it out of the two bronze straps on the 'top' of the drum. The winch assembly has an integral 4 1/8" square mounting plate/base with a 4 bolt pattern 3 1/2" square. The drum measures 2 3/8" across with a 1 3/4" diameter on the working surface.

If anyone knows where I can find replacements or something that could work that is similar in construction, please help us.

TEWK
09-03-2003, 07:52 PM
I am having difficulty in finding suitable replacements for a pair of very worn-out halyard winches. They are for wire, not rope, made of bronze with the ratchet mechanism more or less external - on the back side of the drum, but not encased. The release is simply a lever, which by a cam, presses on the latch, lifting it clear of the teeth. The winch handle is removed by sliding it out of the two bronze straps on the 'top' of the drum. The winch assembly has an integral 4 1/8" square mounting plate/base with a 4 bolt pattern 3 1/2" square. The drum measures 2 3/8" across with a 1 3/4" diameter on the working surface.

If anyone knows where I can find replacements or something that could work that is similar in construction, please help us.

JimConlin
09-03-2003, 09:55 PM
The reel type halyard winches of the sixties and earler were quite unsafe because they required that there be a handle inserted to ease the halyard by a controlled amount, as when reefing. They caused many injuries. They went out of use when wire-to-dacron splices became trusted.
There are a good number of such winches available in the flea markets. Depending on size, they're good doorstops or paperweights.

Today, I'd use a conventional self-tailer, with either a wire-rope or all-rope halyard.

If I were on a very tight budget, i might consider an old Barient reel winch. Their brake mechanism offered a hope of a controlled relase.

JimConlin
09-03-2003, 09:55 PM
The reel type halyard winches of the sixties and earler were quite unsafe because they required that there be a handle inserted to ease the halyard by a controlled amount, as when reefing. They caused many injuries. They went out of use when wire-to-dacron splices became trusted.
There are a good number of such winches available in the flea markets. Depending on size, they're good doorstops or paperweights.

Today, I'd use a conventional self-tailer, with either a wire-rope or all-rope halyard.

If I were on a very tight budget, i might consider an old Barient reel winch. Their brake mechanism offered a hope of a controlled relase.

JimConlin
09-03-2003, 09:55 PM
The reel type halyard winches of the sixties and earler were quite unsafe because they required that there be a handle inserted to ease the halyard by a controlled amount, as when reefing. They caused many injuries. They went out of use when wire-to-dacron splices became trusted.
There are a good number of such winches available in the flea markets. Depending on size, they're good doorstops or paperweights.

Today, I'd use a conventional self-tailer, with either a wire-rope or all-rope halyard.

If I were on a very tight budget, i might consider an old Barient reel winch. Their brake mechanism offered a hope of a controlled relase.

Ian McColgin
09-04-2003, 08:29 AM
I'll join the votes against wire hallyards and reel winches. In another thread I mentioned that I'd not had a gear failure climbing a mast but I was thinking of breakage. I did once (for the same owner who zinged me with a radio transmission!) have an untended unsecured wire winch drop me when I was working aloft.

The brake is a bit more likely to fail if there's a moment of slack. I'd reached up under a spreader while fixing a light and when I let go I was in free fall. Like any good climber, I always know where grab point b is, but I was still amazed that I could stop my fall by gripping a stay. Amazing the strength of fear.

Wire is pointless in this day of about zero streatch line. Change the shive at the truck and put in a nice winch for holding a line.

I don't recommend a self-tailer in this application. Most yacht sails can be hauled up faster hand over hand and then tweeked tight with the winch with one hand on the handle and one on the tail.

A self-tailer might be of use to the cruising couple if that's what it takes to get one partner aloft, but otherwise, not worth the bother and expense.

G'luck

Ian McColgin
09-04-2003, 08:29 AM
I'll join the votes against wire hallyards and reel winches. In another thread I mentioned that I'd not had a gear failure climbing a mast but I was thinking of breakage. I did once (for the same owner who zinged me with a radio transmission!) have an untended unsecured wire winch drop me when I was working aloft.

The brake is a bit more likely to fail if there's a moment of slack. I'd reached up under a spreader while fixing a light and when I let go I was in free fall. Like any good climber, I always know where grab point b is, but I was still amazed that I could stop my fall by gripping a stay. Amazing the strength of fear.

Wire is pointless in this day of about zero streatch line. Change the shive at the truck and put in a nice winch for holding a line.

I don't recommend a self-tailer in this application. Most yacht sails can be hauled up faster hand over hand and then tweeked tight with the winch with one hand on the handle and one on the tail.

A self-tailer might be of use to the cruising couple if that's what it takes to get one partner aloft, but otherwise, not worth the bother and expense.

G'luck

Ian McColgin
09-04-2003, 08:29 AM
I'll join the votes against wire hallyards and reel winches. In another thread I mentioned that I'd not had a gear failure climbing a mast but I was thinking of breakage. I did once (for the same owner who zinged me with a radio transmission!) have an untended unsecured wire winch drop me when I was working aloft.

The brake is a bit more likely to fail if there's a moment of slack. I'd reached up under a spreader while fixing a light and when I let go I was in free fall. Like any good climber, I always know where grab point b is, but I was still amazed that I could stop my fall by gripping a stay. Amazing the strength of fear.

Wire is pointless in this day of about zero streatch line. Change the shive at the truck and put in a nice winch for holding a line.

I don't recommend a self-tailer in this application. Most yacht sails can be hauled up faster hand over hand and then tweeked tight with the winch with one hand on the handle and one on the tail.

A self-tailer might be of use to the cruising couple if that's what it takes to get one partner aloft, but otherwise, not worth the bother and expense.

G'luck

paladin
09-04-2003, 08:46 AM
and another opinion....I used the old Nicro-Metal Marine wire halyard winches on Amihan for years without incident or accident because I was fully aware of the damage that could result if you were careless.....then one day out of Hermana Major , Philippines, headed for Yap Island I ran into a squall and had seen it coming but waited to late to reef.....the winch handle was very wet as I pulled the clutch release and received a fractured wrist for my trouble. They were still on the boat when I sold it, but a stern warning went to the new owner with the suggestion to replace them at first opportunity..

paladin
09-04-2003, 08:46 AM
and another opinion....I used the old Nicro-Metal Marine wire halyard winches on Amihan for years without incident or accident because I was fully aware of the damage that could result if you were careless.....then one day out of Hermana Major , Philippines, headed for Yap Island I ran into a squall and had seen it coming but waited to late to reef.....the winch handle was very wet as I pulled the clutch release and received a fractured wrist for my trouble. They were still on the boat when I sold it, but a stern warning went to the new owner with the suggestion to replace them at first opportunity..

paladin
09-04-2003, 08:46 AM
and another opinion....I used the old Nicro-Metal Marine wire halyard winches on Amihan for years without incident or accident because I was fully aware of the damage that could result if you were careless.....then one day out of Hermana Major , Philippines, headed for Yap Island I ran into a squall and had seen it coming but waited to late to reef.....the winch handle was very wet as I pulled the clutch release and received a fractured wrist for my trouble. They were still on the boat when I sold it, but a stern warning went to the new owner with the suggestion to replace them at first opportunity..

merc412
09-04-2003, 09:45 AM
Wrong coast but you could try this place

http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/

merc412
09-04-2003, 09:45 AM
Wrong coast but you could try this place

http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/

merc412
09-04-2003, 09:45 AM
Wrong coast but you could try this place

http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/

Nicholas Carey
09-05-2003, 03:26 AM
Toplicht (http://www.toplicht.de/) has halyard winches for wire. Go to their web site and order a catalog -- it should show up in just a few day (I ordered mine on a Wednesday and received it on Friday).

The catalog is auf deutsche, but it has an index in English.

Nicholas Carey
09-05-2003, 03:26 AM
Toplicht (http://www.toplicht.de/) has halyard winches for wire. Go to their web site and order a catalog -- it should show up in just a few day (I ordered mine on a Wednesday and received it on Friday).

The catalog is auf deutsche, but it has an index in English.

Nicholas Carey
09-05-2003, 03:26 AM
Toplicht (http://www.toplicht.de/) has halyard winches for wire. Go to their web site and order a catalog -- it should show up in just a few day (I ordered mine on a Wednesday and received it on Friday).

The catalog is auf deutsche, but it has an index in English.

Gerald
09-24-2003, 12:06 AM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/pccd574e6fc15f4a01dcd7b1bbc3ae328/fb01bc3c.jpg
I suspect the winches in the picture are the ones you are talking about. They seem hell for strong. I had not sailed the boat for more than an hour or so before I started rebuilding so only raised the sail once. The winches seem slow and seem to me too be an accident waiting to happen. I am going to use them for a while or at least until I break an arm or get smacked in the face.
I am wondering why there are two winches installed? Maybe one to raise the sail and a spare?
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-24-2003, 12:06 AM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/pccd574e6fc15f4a01dcd7b1bbc3ae328/fb01bc3c.jpg
I suspect the winches in the picture are the ones you are talking about. They seem hell for strong. I had not sailed the boat for more than an hour or so before I started rebuilding so only raised the sail once. The winches seem slow and seem to me too be an accident waiting to happen. I am going to use them for a while or at least until I break an arm or get smacked in the face.
I am wondering why there are two winches installed? Maybe one to raise the sail and a spare?
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-24-2003, 12:06 AM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/pccd574e6fc15f4a01dcd7b1bbc3ae328/fb01bc3c.jpg
I suspect the winches in the picture are the ones you are talking about. They seem hell for strong. I had not sailed the boat for more than an hour or so before I started rebuilding so only raised the sail once. The winches seem slow and seem to me too be an accident waiting to happen. I am going to use them for a while or at least until I break an arm or get smacked in the face.
I am wondering why there are two winches installed? Maybe one to raise the sail and a spare?
Gerald Niffenegger

JimConlin
09-24-2003, 08:52 AM
Gerald wrote:
I am wondering why there are two winches installed? Maybe one to raise the sail
and a spare?

Does the boat have a jib?

Is this a troll?

JimConlin
09-24-2003, 08:52 AM
Gerald wrote:
I am wondering why there are two winches installed? Maybe one to raise the sail
and a spare?

Does the boat have a jib?

Is this a troll?

JimConlin
09-24-2003, 08:52 AM
Gerald wrote:
I am wondering why there are two winches installed? Maybe one to raise the sail
and a spare?

Does the boat have a jib?

Is this a troll?

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 09:17 AM
We can also see from the winch on the boom that the boat's previous owner thought of the roller reefing what I think of it - bad stuff.

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 09:17 AM
We can also see from the winch on the boom that the boat's previous owner thought of the roller reefing what I think of it - bad stuff.

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 09:17 AM
We can also see from the winch on the boom that the boat's previous owner thought of the roller reefing what I think of it - bad stuff.

Gerald
09-24-2003, 10:09 AM
No, Jim this is not a troll it just never entered my mind that anyone would lift a jib with a winch like these. The winch spool was empty when I bought the boat. Besides that it seems like lifting a jib with a winch like these would be slooow. Then again ..... I have never owned a boat that didn't have a roller for the jib. I will install a roller on this boat also so guess I have a winch to raise the main and a spare.
I agree Ian I won't be using the boom roller. Can't see that it will hurt anything having it there in working order but the sail has reef points.
Thank You
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-24-2003, 10:09 AM
No, Jim this is not a troll it just never entered my mind that anyone would lift a jib with a winch like these. The winch spool was empty when I bought the boat. Besides that it seems like lifting a jib with a winch like these would be slooow. Then again ..... I have never owned a boat that didn't have a roller for the jib. I will install a roller on this boat also so guess I have a winch to raise the main and a spare.
I agree Ian I won't be using the boom roller. Can't see that it will hurt anything having it there in working order but the sail has reef points.
Thank You
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-24-2003, 10:09 AM
No, Jim this is not a troll it just never entered my mind that anyone would lift a jib with a winch like these. The winch spool was empty when I bought the boat. Besides that it seems like lifting a jib with a winch like these would be slooow. Then again ..... I have never owned a boat that didn't have a roller for the jib. I will install a roller on this boat also so guess I have a winch to raise the main and a spare.
I agree Ian I won't be using the boom roller. Can't see that it will hurt anything having it there in working order but the sail has reef points.
Thank You
Gerald Niffenegger

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 10:34 AM
Actually, wire reel winches were used for jibs before being used for the main. It's not the weight of hoisting but the luff tension that's at issue. This is harder to achieve on the jib both because you need lots more hallyard tension and it's harder to set up a powerful downhaul.

Were I rerigging this boat, I'd scrap both winches. You'll also need to scrap the mast head hallyard sheeves assuming they are for wire.

I would for sure put a nice open winch on the port side for the jib hallyard. With modern fibres, there is no real need to wire to rope splicing any more, but even if you do that, it's the same open winch. If you must have wire, you'll need a combination shive for that hallyard that will accept the fibre part of the hallyard and is grooved to correctly support the wire.

Most riggers advocate having the wire splice end a bit above where the hallyard will be wrapped around the winch for tightening. Theory is less strain on the wire and on the splice. I actually preferr having the splice located such that about 3 wraps of wire get on the winch barrel followed by a couple wraps that are really both wire and fibre. The splice ends just above where the hallyard has to get around the cleat.

On the main, if you can arrange a sliding gooseneck, you can avoid the hassel and expense of a winch at all. Just add a maybe 5:1 power downhaul.

Yopu're right that hoisting with a reel winch is slow. Very nice to whip those sails up hand over hand and just throw the wraps on the winch at the end for tensioning.

Back in the '60's when these miserable things were all the rage, I made for one CCA racer/cruiser sloop I crewed on winch handles that were modified auto steering wheels - nice wood rimmed that the owner bought. These somewhat improved the speed in hoisting, much improved speed and control in striking, and were completely safe.

I used the same trick on a large turn of the century extreme overhang yawl when that owner declined my advice to get rid of the wire sheets and attentant reel sheet winches. What an insane hazard that was!

If you must keep with the wire, get used to level winding it with your free hand. If you don't, the load of wire might not fit in the winch and it will crush, kink and distort under load. I find it best to level winde with my left hand starting a couple feet above the winch and moving down with the hallyard, repositioning my hand as needed. Better not to let it slide in your hand. Wire hallyards tend to get little nerds - broken strands - that can make you bleed like the flebotolist got you.

Assuming you keep the original handles, never never never just let go of the handle. If the brake is not set correctly it'll fly around and break your arm, bust your jaw or kill you outright. Always ease the strain off and then remove the handle and stick it in its boot.

Have I talked you into junking them yet?

[ 09-24-2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 10:34 AM
Actually, wire reel winches were used for jibs before being used for the main. It's not the weight of hoisting but the luff tension that's at issue. This is harder to achieve on the jib both because you need lots more hallyard tension and it's harder to set up a powerful downhaul.

Were I rerigging this boat, I'd scrap both winches. You'll also need to scrap the mast head hallyard sheeves assuming they are for wire.

I would for sure put a nice open winch on the port side for the jib hallyard. With modern fibres, there is no real need to wire to rope splicing any more, but even if you do that, it's the same open winch. If you must have wire, you'll need a combination shive for that hallyard that will accept the fibre part of the hallyard and is grooved to correctly support the wire.

Most riggers advocate having the wire splice end a bit above where the hallyard will be wrapped around the winch for tightening. Theory is less strain on the wire and on the splice. I actually preferr having the splice located such that about 3 wraps of wire get on the winch barrel followed by a couple wraps that are really both wire and fibre. The splice ends just above where the hallyard has to get around the cleat.

On the main, if you can arrange a sliding gooseneck, you can avoid the hassel and expense of a winch at all. Just add a maybe 5:1 power downhaul.

Yopu're right that hoisting with a reel winch is slow. Very nice to whip those sails up hand over hand and just throw the wraps on the winch at the end for tensioning.

Back in the '60's when these miserable things were all the rage, I made for one CCA racer/cruiser sloop I crewed on winch handles that were modified auto steering wheels - nice wood rimmed that the owner bought. These somewhat improved the speed in hoisting, much improved speed and control in striking, and were completely safe.

I used the same trick on a large turn of the century extreme overhang yawl when that owner declined my advice to get rid of the wire sheets and attentant reel sheet winches. What an insane hazard that was!

If you must keep with the wire, get used to level winding it with your free hand. If you don't, the load of wire might not fit in the winch and it will crush, kink and distort under load. I find it best to level winde with my left hand starting a couple feet above the winch and moving down with the hallyard, repositioning my hand as needed. Better not to let it slide in your hand. Wire hallyards tend to get little nerds - broken strands - that can make you bleed like the flebotolist got you.

Assuming you keep the original handles, never never never just let go of the handle. If the brake is not set correctly it'll fly around and break your arm, bust your jaw or kill you outright. Always ease the strain off and then remove the handle and stick it in its boot.

Have I talked you into junking them yet?

[ 09-24-2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 10:34 AM
Actually, wire reel winches were used for jibs before being used for the main. It's not the weight of hoisting but the luff tension that's at issue. This is harder to achieve on the jib both because you need lots more hallyard tension and it's harder to set up a powerful downhaul.

Were I rerigging this boat, I'd scrap both winches. You'll also need to scrap the mast head hallyard sheeves assuming they are for wire.

I would for sure put a nice open winch on the port side for the jib hallyard. With modern fibres, there is no real need to wire to rope splicing any more, but even if you do that, it's the same open winch. If you must have wire, you'll need a combination shive for that hallyard that will accept the fibre part of the hallyard and is grooved to correctly support the wire.

Most riggers advocate having the wire splice end a bit above where the hallyard will be wrapped around the winch for tightening. Theory is less strain on the wire and on the splice. I actually preferr having the splice located such that about 3 wraps of wire get on the winch barrel followed by a couple wraps that are really both wire and fibre. The splice ends just above where the hallyard has to get around the cleat.

On the main, if you can arrange a sliding gooseneck, you can avoid the hassel and expense of a winch at all. Just add a maybe 5:1 power downhaul.

Yopu're right that hoisting with a reel winch is slow. Very nice to whip those sails up hand over hand and just throw the wraps on the winch at the end for tensioning.

Back in the '60's when these miserable things were all the rage, I made for one CCA racer/cruiser sloop I crewed on winch handles that were modified auto steering wheels - nice wood rimmed that the owner bought. These somewhat improved the speed in hoisting, much improved speed and control in striking, and were completely safe.

I used the same trick on a large turn of the century extreme overhang yawl when that owner declined my advice to get rid of the wire sheets and attentant reel sheet winches. What an insane hazard that was!

If you must keep with the wire, get used to level winding it with your free hand. If you don't, the load of wire might not fit in the winch and it will crush, kink and distort under load. I find it best to level winde with my left hand starting a couple feet above the winch and moving down with the hallyard, repositioning my hand as needed. Better not to let it slide in your hand. Wire hallyards tend to get little nerds - broken strands - that can make you bleed like the flebotolist got you.

Assuming you keep the original handles, never never never just let go of the handle. If the brake is not set correctly it'll fly around and break your arm, bust your jaw or kill you outright. Always ease the strain off and then remove the handle and stick it in its boot.

Have I talked you into junking them yet?

[ 09-24-2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Ian McColgin ]

Gerald
09-24-2003, 11:41 AM
Ian ..... You are real close to talking my into junking the winches. Also the other things that I have read here tell me that these winches are a real bad idea. However, I am at least going to get this boat back in the water with the equipment that came with the boat. I am putting trust in Campos ..... since the boat came from his yard.
Most of the people here have more time in the head of a sailboat than I do in the cockpit. I don't know the terms that you use so need to look most things up and once I learn the terms in English I also need to learn them in Portuguese. I don't lack rebuilding skill but don't always understand what the point was, 35 years ago when this boat was built.
I took one lesson in a 23' plastic boat, bought the boat from the instructor, played around till I could make the thing respond and went 50 miles off shore to build my confidence. A few months ago I bought this 32' yawl, in need of repair and sailed it for less than an hour before starting the rebuild. I don't believe that you can learn everything from books. Ya need to jump in and get your feet wet ........ wrong term .......... keep your feet dry might be better.
Thank you for your patience.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-24-2003, 11:41 AM
Ian ..... You are real close to talking my into junking the winches. Also the other things that I have read here tell me that these winches are a real bad idea. However, I am at least going to get this boat back in the water with the equipment that came with the boat. I am putting trust in Campos ..... since the boat came from his yard.
Most of the people here have more time in the head of a sailboat than I do in the cockpit. I don't know the terms that you use so need to look most things up and once I learn the terms in English I also need to learn them in Portuguese. I don't lack rebuilding skill but don't always understand what the point was, 35 years ago when this boat was built.
I took one lesson in a 23' plastic boat, bought the boat from the instructor, played around till I could make the thing respond and went 50 miles off shore to build my confidence. A few months ago I bought this 32' yawl, in need of repair and sailed it for less than an hour before starting the rebuild. I don't believe that you can learn everything from books. Ya need to jump in and get your feet wet ........ wrong term .......... keep your feet dry might be better.
Thank you for your patience.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-24-2003, 11:41 AM
Ian ..... You are real close to talking my into junking the winches. Also the other things that I have read here tell me that these winches are a real bad idea. However, I am at least going to get this boat back in the water with the equipment that came with the boat. I am putting trust in Campos ..... since the boat came from his yard.
Most of the people here have more time in the head of a sailboat than I do in the cockpit. I don't know the terms that you use so need to look most things up and once I learn the terms in English I also need to learn them in Portuguese. I don't lack rebuilding skill but don't always understand what the point was, 35 years ago when this boat was built.
I took one lesson in a 23' plastic boat, bought the boat from the instructor, played around till I could make the thing respond and went 50 miles off shore to build my confidence. A few months ago I bought this 32' yawl, in need of repair and sailed it for less than an hour before starting the rebuild. I don't believe that you can learn everything from books. Ya need to jump in and get your feet wet ........ wrong term .......... keep your feet dry might be better.
Thank you for your patience.
Gerald Niffenegger

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 01:37 PM
Confession time.

Grana has wire hallyards and reel winches.

I'm too cheap to replace anything that is not yet broken.

Grana came with the wire hallyard and reel winches. A dozen years and I've not replaced them. I will when I do my rebuild or as they break.

It's actually not a bad idea to keep things as they are for a year, just to be sure you're really that much smarter than the former owner.`

However, if you don't have the wire, if you're going to spend anything like money getting rigged, then it's pennies wise and pounds foolish not to take the jump and go for the safest and most seamanlike system you can get.

Wire was the good, especially for racing boats and especially for jib hallyards, up through the 60's, maybe into the 70's. It's no longer good practice and the gear should be abandoned.

By the way, you could still use the winches. Yopu have to remove the shielding plate so that you can get all the way around the drum. You should make a gooey thick epoxy and FRG mat gumbo and lay it around the winch barrel. When it's cured, put it on a slow lathe and turn it down such that it takes the curve you see on that winch on the boom. You need to do this because fibre hallyards on a flat barreled winch will create their own horrendous riding hitches. There's a reason winch drums have some radius at least at the ends. Overtighten the break band and remove the release so the winch only turns one way. Now you have a winch suitable for fibre at the cost of just a little work.

You still have to change out the hallyard shivs up at the top of the mast and you may or may not have some fussing to make the larger diameter of fibre hallyards fit.

G'luck.

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 01:37 PM
Confession time.

Grana has wire hallyards and reel winches.

I'm too cheap to replace anything that is not yet broken.

Grana came with the wire hallyard and reel winches. A dozen years and I've not replaced them. I will when I do my rebuild or as they break.

It's actually not a bad idea to keep things as they are for a year, just to be sure you're really that much smarter than the former owner.`

However, if you don't have the wire, if you're going to spend anything like money getting rigged, then it's pennies wise and pounds foolish not to take the jump and go for the safest and most seamanlike system you can get.

Wire was the good, especially for racing boats and especially for jib hallyards, up through the 60's, maybe into the 70's. It's no longer good practice and the gear should be abandoned.

By the way, you could still use the winches. Yopu have to remove the shielding plate so that you can get all the way around the drum. You should make a gooey thick epoxy and FRG mat gumbo and lay it around the winch barrel. When it's cured, put it on a slow lathe and turn it down such that it takes the curve you see on that winch on the boom. You need to do this because fibre hallyards on a flat barreled winch will create their own horrendous riding hitches. There's a reason winch drums have some radius at least at the ends. Overtighten the break band and remove the release so the winch only turns one way. Now you have a winch suitable for fibre at the cost of just a little work.

You still have to change out the hallyard shivs up at the top of the mast and you may or may not have some fussing to make the larger diameter of fibre hallyards fit.

G'luck.

Ian McColgin
09-24-2003, 01:37 PM
Confession time.

Grana has wire hallyards and reel winches.

I'm too cheap to replace anything that is not yet broken.

Grana came with the wire hallyard and reel winches. A dozen years and I've not replaced them. I will when I do my rebuild or as they break.

It's actually not a bad idea to keep things as they are for a year, just to be sure you're really that much smarter than the former owner.`

However, if you don't have the wire, if you're going to spend anything like money getting rigged, then it's pennies wise and pounds foolish not to take the jump and go for the safest and most seamanlike system you can get.

Wire was the good, especially for racing boats and especially for jib hallyards, up through the 60's, maybe into the 70's. It's no longer good practice and the gear should be abandoned.

By the way, you could still use the winches. Yopu have to remove the shielding plate so that you can get all the way around the drum. You should make a gooey thick epoxy and FRG mat gumbo and lay it around the winch barrel. When it's cured, put it on a slow lathe and turn it down such that it takes the curve you see on that winch on the boom. You need to do this because fibre hallyards on a flat barreled winch will create their own horrendous riding hitches. There's a reason winch drums have some radius at least at the ends. Overtighten the break band and remove the release so the winch only turns one way. Now you have a winch suitable for fibre at the cost of just a little work.

You still have to change out the hallyard shivs up at the top of the mast and you may or may not have some fussing to make the larger diameter of fibre hallyards fit.

G'luck.

Gerald
09-25-2003, 03:46 PM
Ian
I liked the idea of using cord and to my surprise the port side winch has no spool guard. I think that explains how he was raising the jib. The port side works just fine with cord. Five minutes in the lathe and a knurling tool would improve its performance. However, even without the radius or the knurled spool it works great.
When you talk about clutches and such you are talking about different winch than mine. Mine is a one way ratchet winch. Pull the release handle and it free wheels.
A supplier stopped the other day with samples of epoxy and one of the samples is an epoxy body putty. It is mixed 50/50 into a paste the same consistency as bondo. I used lots of West System several years ago but don't remember them advertising this kind of putty. This stuff should work to build up the radius.
Thank You
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-25-2003, 03:46 PM
Ian
I liked the idea of using cord and to my surprise the port side winch has no spool guard. I think that explains how he was raising the jib. The port side works just fine with cord. Five minutes in the lathe and a knurling tool would improve its performance. However, even without the radius or the knurled spool it works great.
When you talk about clutches and such you are talking about different winch than mine. Mine is a one way ratchet winch. Pull the release handle and it free wheels.
A supplier stopped the other day with samples of epoxy and one of the samples is an epoxy body putty. It is mixed 50/50 into a paste the same consistency as bondo. I used lots of West System several years ago but don't remember them advertising this kind of putty. This stuff should work to build up the radius.
Thank You
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-25-2003, 03:46 PM
Ian
I liked the idea of using cord and to my surprise the port side winch has no spool guard. I think that explains how he was raising the jib. The port side works just fine with cord. Five minutes in the lathe and a knurling tool would improve its performance. However, even without the radius or the knurled spool it works great.
When you talk about clutches and such you are talking about different winch than mine. Mine is a one way ratchet winch. Pull the release handle and it free wheels.
A supplier stopped the other day with samples of epoxy and one of the samples is an epoxy body putty. It is mixed 50/50 into a paste the same consistency as bondo. I used lots of West System several years ago but don't remember them advertising this kind of putty. This stuff should work to build up the radius.
Thank You
Gerald Niffenegger

TEWK
09-29-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Gerald:
Ian ..... You are real close to talking my into junking the winches. Also the other things that I have read here tell me that these winches are a real bad idea. . . Ya need to jump in and get your feet wet ........ wrong term .......... keep your feet dry might be better.
Thank you for your patience.
Gerald NiffeneggerTEWK has two of these winches. If you are thinking of scrapping them, I'll take them off of your hands.

Built in 1909 as a gaff cutter, I imagine that one was for the main and the other for the jib. There were no genoas then, no overlapping head sails to speak of and her staysail is so small, no winch is required to tension the luff.
Dave

TEWK
09-29-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Gerald:
Ian ..... You are real close to talking my into junking the winches. Also the other things that I have read here tell me that these winches are a real bad idea. . . Ya need to jump in and get your feet wet ........ wrong term .......... keep your feet dry might be better.
Thank you for your patience.
Gerald NiffeneggerTEWK has two of these winches. If you are thinking of scrapping them, I'll take them off of your hands.

Built in 1909 as a gaff cutter, I imagine that one was for the main and the other for the jib. There were no genoas then, no overlapping head sails to speak of and her staysail is so small, no winch is required to tension the luff.
Dave

TEWK
09-29-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Gerald:
Ian ..... You are real close to talking my into junking the winches. Also the other things that I have read here tell me that these winches are a real bad idea. . . Ya need to jump in and get your feet wet ........ wrong term .......... keep your feet dry might be better.
Thank you for your patience.
Gerald NiffeneggerTEWK has two of these winches. If you are thinking of scrapping them, I'll take them off of your hands.

Built in 1909 as a gaff cutter, I imagine that one was for the main and the other for the jib. There were no genoas then, no overlapping head sails to speak of and her staysail is so small, no winch is required to tension the luff.
Dave

Gerald
09-29-2003, 08:35 PM
TEWK
You might check with JohnB. Looks like he has his set just setting in his shop doing nothing.
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008064

It looks like his set of winches have a harness that wraps around the boom. One heck of a lot stronger than mine that are held on with 7 screws.
Thanks for the use of your thread.
I am going to use the winches until I break my wrist.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-29-2003, 08:35 PM
TEWK
You might check with JohnB. Looks like he has his set just setting in his shop doing nothing.
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008064

It looks like his set of winches have a harness that wraps around the boom. One heck of a lot stronger than mine that are held on with 7 screws.
Thanks for the use of your thread.
I am going to use the winches until I break my wrist.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
09-29-2003, 08:35 PM
TEWK
You might check with JohnB. Looks like he has his set just setting in his shop doing nothing.
http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008064

It looks like his set of winches have a harness that wraps around the boom. One heck of a lot stronger than mine that are held on with 7 screws.
Thanks for the use of your thread.
I am going to use the winches until I break my wrist.
Gerald Niffenegger

TEWK
10-06-2003, 05:23 PM
Ian,
You have not convinced me to scrap the wire winches, only replace them. I am having some luck in that department. By the way, LVJ Winches makes some wire halyard winches in bronze.
"Taylor and Snediker" <info@lvjwinchesusa.com>

I am replacing the port side winch with a bronze one for cord. It is simply to tension the jib, which as you said is a hard task. My stays'l is easy and the run is only about 10'. I can get it quite tight without a winch.
Dave

TEWK
10-06-2003, 05:23 PM
Ian,
You have not convinced me to scrap the wire winches, only replace them. I am having some luck in that department. By the way, LVJ Winches makes some wire halyard winches in bronze.
"Taylor and Snediker" <info@lvjwinchesusa.com>

I am replacing the port side winch with a bronze one for cord. It is simply to tension the jib, which as you said is a hard task. My stays'l is easy and the run is only about 10'. I can get it quite tight without a winch.
Dave

TEWK
10-06-2003, 05:23 PM
Ian,
You have not convinced me to scrap the wire winches, only replace them. I am having some luck in that department. By the way, LVJ Winches makes some wire halyard winches in bronze.
"Taylor and Snediker" <info@lvjwinchesusa.com>

I am replacing the port side winch with a bronze one for cord. It is simply to tension the jib, which as you said is a hard task. My stays'l is easy and the run is only about 10'. I can get it quite tight without a winch.
Dave