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h&t
02-17-2014, 08:06 AM
Hi all,

I'd like to build a canoe, that I would use on small lakes/ponds. It will be transported on top of a vehicle(SUV).
Capacity - one 230 lbs person most of the time.
Would be nice if my 10 yo son can fit in occasionally.
I also might do some duck hunting from the canoe if it's stable enough, so 45 lbs dog would go in it.

My question - what would be a better construction for this purpose - plywood or skin on frame.
I build 2 SOF kayaks last summer, but have no experience with plywood construction.

So far the main difference, I can think of is SOF will be lighter, but ply would be more durable?
Anything else?

Thanks.

WI-Tom
02-17-2014, 08:18 AM
I'd expect either to be plenty durable for the uses you describe with reasonable care, but I'm not sure how sharp your dog's claws are--that might be a factor. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has brought canine crew aboard a SOF boat, and if it's a problem.

SOF would certainly be lighter and easier to cartop.

Tom

DGentry
02-17-2014, 09:18 AM
I'd expect either to be plenty durable for the uses you describe with reasonable care, but I'm not sure how sharp your dog's claws are--that might be a factor. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has brought canine crew aboard a SOF boat, and if it's a problem.


It is perhaps possible, but unlikely, that a dog's claws could somehow damage one of the late Platt Monfort's SOF designs, as he spec'd very lightweight cloth for the skin.
But, for my boats - and yes, I have a dog that runs and jumps all over them - there is no issue whatsoever.

I'd say that a nicely designed multi-chine plywood canoe (like this one, by Michael Storer - http://www.storerboatplans.com/Eureka/Eurekacanoes.html ) would be just dandy. Certainly you could be more blase' about mistreating it than a SOF boat (though SOF can be very tough indeed). But, it does seem silly to mistreat any boat you worked so hard to build.

In any case, a plywood canoe would be heavier, and more expensive and - unless you opted for one of the simplistic slab sided/flat bottomed designs - more time consuming and more complex to build than a SOF canoe.

Skin boats look a little nicer, too, in my opinion . . . .
http://gentrycustomboats.com/pics/IGO%206a.JPG

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-17-2014, 12:26 PM
S&G canoes come in an array of complexity from the Cheap Canoe which is a simple pirogue
http://gallery.bateau2.com/displayimage.php?album=333&pid=5048#top_display_media
http://www.bateau.com/freeplans.php#.UwJGlJtaczQ

to single and double chine types which are more like canoe shapes of the past.
http://www.bateau.com/products.php?cat=8#.UwJEd5taczQ

Whatever design you chose should conform to current ideas about rocker and shearline to get the best handling.
And if you want to cartop without getting a hernia BS 1088 okoume plywood will give you the lightest hull possible.

James McMullen
02-17-2014, 02:03 PM
Skin-on-frame using the heavy-duty fabric and urethane coating available from Spirit Line (http://shop.skinboats.com) is like whitewater raft tough. I would have no fear or hesitation whatsoever over dog claws in a SOF boat skinned with that. My dog was allowed in my umiak without a second thought.

A glued lap canoe is the only kind of plywood canoe I would would be satisfied with. Definitely I would advise to run away screaming from any hard-chined, crude, oversimplified plywood shape. You've got less available power to overcome inefficiencies in hull shape with a canoe paddle than with just about any other means of propulsion. A proper, well-shaped canoe is pretty important to enjoying paddling anywhere more ambitious than pond-crawling.

I've enjoyed both lapstrake and skin-on-frame construction as a project, so if you've already done SOF, maybe it's worth trying another method. Hard to beat SOF for a light cartopper, though.

Whameller
02-17-2014, 04:51 PM
SOF can be dog claw proof:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb127/RaggyladXIX/IMGP1497_zpsbeb6b589.jpg

That is cotton canvas proofed with marine varnish. Dog is a Border Terrier - her claws are SHARP !

skuthorp
02-17-2014, 11:05 PM
Depends, where I paddle we have long sandy surf beaches, and a bay full of sharp volcanic rock. I have a plastic kayak and a wooden sailing canoe. SOF half built. Horses for courses.
Dogs in SOF canoes?, depends on the dog. Temperament and size. I once had a 70 kilo Newfoundland come aboard my wooden K1 from a height, see what I mean?

UCanoe_2
02-18-2014, 06:37 AM
How would SOF boats handle multiple big impulsive dogs, like all four of these in the canoe at once? http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2300/10706129/23093436/408803408.jpg Scarlett, at right, 56 lbs., once abandoned ship in the middle of a Class III rapid. Jeb, second from right, 62 lbs., is my usual boating companion these days.

DGentry
02-18-2014, 07:40 AM
How would SOF boats handle multiple big impulsive dogs, like all four of these in the canoe at once?

Hi Reese! A SOF canoe would handle four big impulsive dogs just the same as any other canoe - poorly! But not in the sense that there would be any danger of harming the skin.

Now, for everyone's consideration: Can an enormous dog generate enough force to drive nails with his paw? No? Then one needn't worry, at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS8CUuGthPI
8oz polyester
Edited to say - Do not do this to your wooden canoe.

Rich Jones
02-18-2014, 08:41 AM
What type of water will you be duck hunting on? If salt water, you'll probably be dealing with tidal mud flats and possibly having to drag the canoe over God-only-knows-what to get to open water. Can SOF handle that abuse?

Oh, and Welcome to the Forum!

Michael Wick
02-18-2014, 08:49 AM
I built a SOF Platt Monford canoe and took it with my golden retriever on it many times without any problems. My only problem was having the canoe blow about and collect splinters from a dock.

DGentry
02-18-2014, 09:51 AM
. . . you'll probably be dealing with tidal mud flats and possibly having to drag the canoe over God-only-knows-what to get to open water. Can SOF handle that abuse?

This video - not mine - is somewhat longer, but quite enlightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYyvIExWkqU
Skin boats have crossed the Atlantic, rounded Cape Horn and have been used in brutal Arctic conditions for thousands of years. If you need a tougher boat, you just skin it with a tougher material - there are many options.

Peter Belenky
02-18-2014, 10:06 AM
Michael Storer has two excellent plywood canoe designs, Eureka and Quick Canoe (www.storerboatplans.com (http://www.storerboatplans.com) ). Kits can also be purchased.

h&t
02-18-2014, 05:51 PM
thanks all. I think I will go with SOF, what fabric would you recommend?
I think I used 8 oz poly on the kayaks from Dyson.