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wardd
01-25-2014, 08:04 PM
"I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its 'one percent,' namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the 'rich,'" Perkins writes. Thomas Perkins (http://www.forbes.com/profile/thomas-perkins/), one of the founders of venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caulfield & Byers, was comparing taxes on the super rich to the slaughter of millions in the Holocaust.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/25/taxes-rich-holocaust_n_4665676.html

CWSmith
01-25-2014, 09:14 PM
I feel deep, deep sympathy for him and his kind.

For most people, there is a little detector in the brain that goes off before saying such a stupid and potentially offensive statement. The fact that he lacks that switch tells me that others around him are quietly saying the same thing.

Ian McColgin
01-25-2014, 09:24 PM
Astonishing. And incredibly offensive.

bobbys
01-25-2014, 09:28 PM
I think it's terrible to have constant links to the huff post,what are you guys paid by the links?

Ian McColgin
01-25-2014, 09:32 PM
bobbys, if you think that this rightwing jerkoff did not falsly compare taxes to the holocaust, let us know your sourse. If not, pray explain how a legitimate news story quoting Thomas Perkins somehow failed to quote him accurately.

wardd
01-25-2014, 09:33 PM
I think it's terrible to have constant links to the huff post,what are you guys paid by the links?

are you questioning the accuracy of the link?

bobbys
01-25-2014, 09:44 PM
if I want to read the huff post I go there and not here.

wardd
01-25-2014, 09:51 PM
if I want to read the huff post I go there and not here.

then go

bobbys
01-25-2014, 10:23 PM
then go
I might as well when you link a paragraph and are to lazy to comment but rather depend on others to do the heavy lifting.

wardd
01-25-2014, 10:28 PM
I might as well when you link a paragraph and are to lazy to comment but rather depend on others to do the heavy lifting.

did you read the thread title and there is not a whole lot of heavy lifting necessary about it

skipper68
01-25-2014, 10:41 PM
I'm telling MOM!??
This whole thread, including the comments do not belong here. My heart is busted at the atrocity. Please stop? Saturday night. How were theirs?
Get it? My heart cant do this.

LongIslandBoy
01-25-2014, 11:29 PM
I'm telling MOM!??
This whole thread, including the comments do not belong here. My heart is busted at the atrocity. Please stop? Saturday night. How were theirs?
Get it? My heart cant do this.

All due respect, Skip and bobbys, but if this is upsetting you.........change the "channel".

bobbys
01-25-2014, 11:45 PM
All due respect, Skip and bobbys, but if this is upsetting you.........change the "channel".
your right I should know. By now warrd is going to link a paragraph from the huff post with no insight or come up with any of his own thoughts.

with all due respect maybe your ok with bumper sticker thoughts from ward.

wardd
01-25-2014, 11:47 PM
your right I should know. By now warrd is going to link a paragraph from the huff post with no insight or come up with any of his own thoughts.

with all due respect maybe your ok with bumper sticker thoughts from ward.

to most it speaks for itself

LongIslandBoy
01-26-2014, 12:02 AM
your right I should know. By now warrd is going to link a paragraph from the huff post with no insight or come up with any of his own thoughts.

with all due respect maybe your ok with bumper sticker thoughts from ward.
I'm not responding to what wardd wrote, I'm responding to what you wrote. Do you have an insight into the statements made by Mr. Perkins, or do you simply not like the fact that Mr. Perkins was quoted in the Huffington Post?

Gerarddm
01-26-2014, 02:17 AM
Perkins was the guy who spent $100 million building the sailing yacht Maltese Falcon, then put it up for sale two years later. Jeesh.

skuthorp
01-26-2014, 05:47 AM
http://dalystew.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/tumbril.gif

Hwyl
01-26-2014, 07:24 AM
I've had Tom on charter, I liked him a lot. It was many years ago.

Disclaimer : He gave me an impressive gratuity

Peerie Maa
01-26-2014, 07:26 AM
I think it's terrible to have constant links to the huff post,what are you guys paid by the links?

Bobbys, there are some things that you should not try to defend.

Tom Montgomery
01-26-2014, 09:55 AM
Want a different news source, bobbys? Here you go: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-onepercenter-20140125,0,2424935.story#axzz2rVmzw5ho

As for Perkins' remarks in his letter to the Wall Street Journal, what comments are really necessary? He is clearly off his nut.


Progressive Kristallnacht Coming?

Regarding your editorial "Censors on Campus" (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303465004579322773368846510) (Jan. 18): Writing from the epicenter of progressive thought, San Francisco, I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its "one percent," namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the "rich."

From the Occupy movement to the demonization of the rich embedded in virtually every word of our local newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle, I perceive a rising tide of hatred of the successful one percent. There is outraged public reaction to the Google buses carrying technology workers from the city to the peninsula high-tech companies which employ them. We have outrage over the rising real-estate prices which these "techno geeks" can pay. We have, for example, libelous and cruel attacks in the Chronicle on our number-one celebrity, the author Danielle Steel, alleging that she is a "snob" despite the millions she has spent on our city's homeless and mentally ill over the past decades.

This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent "progressive" radicalism unthinkable now?

Mr. Perkins is a founder of Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers.

Tom Montgomery
01-26-2014, 10:03 AM
FYI, Thomas Perkins possesses the world's largest privately-owned sailboat: http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2007/11/05/i-wanted-the-biggest/

Tom Montgomery
01-26-2014, 10:08 AM
http://youtu.be/x9Mvu57FP3c

elf
01-26-2014, 10:11 AM
He sold her a couple years ago. She is a very interesting engineering solution, however.

When you go to snipe at people who have huge quantities of money and spend that on boats, think for a moment about the amazing results of their spending. The Americas Cup comes immediately to mind.

wardd
01-26-2014, 11:41 AM
He sold her a couple years ago. She is a very interesting engineering solution, however.

When you go to snipe at people who have huge quantities of money and spend that on boats, think for a moment about the amazing results of their spending. The Americas Cup comes immediately to mind.

have you ever held the cup?

and i bet there would still be a cup only less spent on one purpose boats

Dan McCosh
01-26-2014, 01:13 PM
bobbys, if you think that this rightwing jerkoff did not falsly compare taxes to the holocaust, let us know your sourse. If not, pray explain how a legitimate news story quoting Thomas Perkins somehow failed to quote him accurately.FWIW, the letter in the WSJ did not mention either taxes or the holocaust. It was comparing the demonization of the "one-percenter" to the demonization of the Jews by the Nazis prior to the holocaust. Whether or not that is a fair comparison, it's worth noting that the most prominent anti-semitic movement in the U.S. was called the Share the Wealth party, and focused on what it perceived to be the control of the international banking system by Jews.

Ian McColgin
01-26-2014, 01:31 PM
Every man a king and no one wears a crown.

But seriously, it's true that Perkins did not overtly defend today's radically reduced taxes on the wealthy. But tax reform is the major progressive push and if anyone thinks that Perkins was not defending the last thirty years of continued shifting of tax burdens off the rich, fine by me. Even without that perfectly warrented understanding, Perkins' comparison of the "plight of the super rich" to pre-crystalnacht Germany is tasteless and insane.

Dan McCosh
01-26-2014, 01:57 PM
Every man a king and no one wears a crown.

But seriously, it's true that Perkins did not overtly defend today's radically reduced taxes on the wealthy. But tax reform is the major progressive push and if anyone thinks that Perkins was not defending the last thirty years of continued shifting of tax burdens off the rich, fine by me. Even without that perfectly warrented understanding, Perkins' comparison of the "plight of the super rich" to pre-crystalnacht Germany is tasteless and insane. Perkins didn't mention taxes, nor did he say anything about the "plight of the super rich". The story was written by a kid a year out of college, inserting her opinion about what she thought he meant. Actually, Jewish acquaintances did voice concern about a rise in antisemitism during the last banking crisis/bailout. I don't see the letter directed to any specific policy--it is a complaint about the rhetoric. Obviously rhetorical in itself.

wardd
01-26-2014, 02:36 PM
what do the wealthy have that the poor don't and to think tax policy has nothing to do with it is absurd

Hwyl
01-26-2014, 03:52 PM
I think Mr Perkins made a poor choice of comparisons, but iif you believe in the American system of capitalism, why are you baying at his heels. He was an early manager at Hewlett Packard and started them on PC's, his company invested in Amazon, AOL, Genentech and Google when they were start ups. His company is responsible for creating 275,000 jobs. He has worked hard and is reaping the gains.

He rebuilt a Herreshoff schooner and his building and subsequent running of Maltese Falcon was a mini industry.

He didn't create the tax rules and has invested in companies that enhance my life. He has created many jobs in the boating industry and has spread his wealth.

I agree that the tax code is wrong, I agree that there are CEO's who should not be there, I agree that there is an oligarchy.

Tom Perkins is not responsible for any of these things, he is merely an example of meritocracy at work, and a human being who used some unfortunate language.

wardd
01-26-2014, 03:54 PM
what if he believes exactly what he says, i assume the man is at least intelligent enough to express himself

Hwyl
01-26-2014, 04:12 PM
Read it again,





Writing from the epicenter of progressive thought, San Francisco, I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its "one percent," namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the "rich."

From the Occupy movement to the demonization of the rich embedded in virtually every word of our local newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle, I perceive a rising tide of hatred of the successful one percent. There is outraged public reaction to the Google buses carrying technology workers from the city to the peninsula high-tech companies which employ them. We have outrage over the rising real-estate prices which these "techno geeks" can pay. We have, for example, libelous and cruel attacks in the Chronicle on our number-one celebrity, the author Danielle Steel, alleging that she is a "snob" despite the millions she has spent on our city's homeless and mentally ill over the past decades.

This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent "progressive" radicalism unthinkable now?

Full Tilt
01-26-2014, 04:37 PM
FWIW, the letter in the WSJ did not mention either taxes or the holocaust. It was comparing the demonization of the "one-percenter" to the demonization of the Jews by the Nazis prior to the holocaust. Whether or not that is a fair comparison, it's worth noting that the most prominent anti-semitic movement in the U.S. was called the Share the Wealth party, and focused on what it perceived to be the control of the international banking system by Jews.

The simple mention of 'The Holocaust' is like a post hypnotic suggestion that flips the 'think switch' off in the brains of otherwise rational people.

That's how the brain deals with unthinkable horror. It ceases to function. That's what "unthinkable" means.

I have no doubt this was precisely the reaction Perkins was going for.

You've been played by one of the best.

Because he is correct.

There are many, directly comparable, similarities.

The only difference is, the targeted one percent in this case, truly are culpable.

He's using a reverse psychology that takes advantage of the irrational guilt we feel as empathetical beings.

wardd
01-26-2014, 05:02 PM
The simple mention of 'The Holocaust' is like a post hypnotic suggestion that flips the 'think switch' off in the brains of otherwise rational people.

That's how the brain deals with unthinkable horror. It ceases to function. That's what "unthinkable" means.

I have no doubt this was precisely the reaction Perkins was going for.

You've been played by one of the best.

Because he is correct.

There are many, directly comparable, similarities.

The only difference is, the targeted one percent in this case, truly are culpable.

He's using a reverse psychology that takes advantage of the irrational guilt we feel as empathetical beings.

another, the ghettos for the 1% are to keep the 99% out

Mad Scientist
01-26-2014, 05:41 PM
Chris,

Thanks for those links in post #25

Tom

Dan McCosh
01-27-2014, 12:00 PM
The simple mention of 'The Holocaust' is like a post hypnotic suggestion that flips the 'think switch' off in the brains of otherwise rational people.

That's how the brain deals with unthinkable horror. It ceases to function. That's what "unthinkable" means.

I have no doubt this was precisely the reaction Perkins was going for.

You've been played by one of the best.

Because he is correct.

There are many, directly comparable, similarities.

The only difference is, the targeted one percent in this case, truly are culpable.

He's using a reverse psychology that takes advantage of the irrational guilt we feel as empathetical beings.FWIW, It was Alex Kleinman who referred to the holocaust. You give her a lot of credit for subtlety.

Full Tilt
01-27-2014, 12:13 PM
FWIW, It was Alex Kleinman who referred to the holocaust. You give her a lot of credit for subtlety.

Eh?

Read the Hufpo link.

Dan McCosh
01-27-2014, 12:16 PM
Eh?

Read the Hufpo link. Look at the byline--she wrote the story.

Osborne Russell
01-27-2014, 12:20 PM
First they came for Joe The Plumber, and I said nothing.



https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOJ_of_Qw39DyKrjaac0C_dgQsuw5nl knOkqCHRUxMPY2MalzlhQ

Osborne Russell
01-27-2014, 12:26 PM
I think Mr Perkins made a poor choice of comparisons . . .

The first choice is: apposite vs. inapposite. If you get that wrong, the next question is why.



. . . why are you baying at his heels.

Because the comparison is so wildly inapposite, we want to know why he makes it and you think it's no big thing.

Full Tilt
01-27-2014, 12:32 PM
Look at the byline--she wrote the story.

I don't know what you're referring to as a "byline".

I only commented about the remarks accredited to Perkins.

bogdog
01-27-2014, 12:46 PM
Perkins would have been a big supporter of Hitler, he's got it a bit backwards.

Full Tilt
01-27-2014, 12:47 PM
Perkins didn't get to where he is by making mistakes.

How big is your boat?

wardd
01-27-2014, 12:52 PM
there are some people that can sculpt, some that pain and some with a talent for making money usually at others expense, doesn't mean they have anymore smarts overall than others

and don't forget trust fund kids

Full Tilt
01-27-2014, 01:06 PM
there are some people that can sculpt, some that pain and some with a talent for making money usually at others expense, doesn't mean they have anymore smarts overall than others

and don't forget trust fund kids

I've met a few of those right here in the Bilge.

Hugh Conway
01-27-2014, 01:06 PM
Tom Perkins is not responsible for any of these things, he is merely an example of meritocracy at work, and a human being who used some unfortunate language.

yes, quite the "meritocracy" there:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24134543/kleiner-perkins-wont-appeal-ellen-pao-ruling-u

he, like many oligarchs, expects genuflection at every step

John Smith
01-27-2014, 01:40 PM
FWIW, the letter in the WSJ did not mention either taxes or the holocaust. It was comparing the demonization of the "one-percenter" to the demonization of the Jews by the Nazis prior to the holocaust. Whether or not that is a fair comparison, it's worth noting that the most prominent anti-semitic movement in the U.S. was called the Share the Wealth party, and focused on what it perceived to be the control of the international banking system by Jews.

It may not be 'fair' to demonize all the 1%'ers. However, can anyone justify huge bonuses to people who fail at their CEO jobs? Is it possible to defend those who make their money by stepping on others?

Is it fair when the wealthy can invest in buying politicians?

We like to boast about being the richest country in the world. How can we make such a boast when so many of our citizens are so poor?

Hwyl
01-27-2014, 05:17 PM
The first choice is: apposite vs. inapposite. If you get that wrong, the next question is why.


Because the comparison is so wildly inapposite, we want to know why he makes it and you think it's no big thing.

You have me on semantics, I hope you are aglow.

Hwyl
01-27-2014, 05:19 PM
yes, quite the "meritocracy" there:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24134543/kleiner-perkins-wont-appeal-ellen-pao-ruling-u

he, like many oligarchs, expects genuflection at every step

He has not been active in the company for 10 years.

Lew Barrett
01-27-2014, 07:59 PM
First they came for Joe The Plumber, and I said nothing.

Actually did laugh out loud!

Lew Barrett
01-27-2014, 08:10 PM
Let's define some terminology, shall we? One percenter is a catch phrase. I believe any acrimony that may be due is better directed at the one hundredth of one percent who actually wield significant power. A one percenter may have $1 million in assets, not really that huge a number today. Let us be clear.

Mr. Perkins may be a great guy; I'd have no way of knowing. I'm satisfied (on the strength of the article) that he did say that the criticisms of our captains of industry is a persecution to liken to that which happened in Germany. This on the face is absurd. Was it an unfortunate choice of words, or does he actually believe this? That I can't judge, but if I am to judge just the words, I'd say he has the shoe firmly planted on the wrong foot. When he is forced by the ruling powers that be to boil those shoes to eat them, I'd acknowledge that his analogy is apt. Until then, it's whinging and whining.

Ian McColgin
01-27-2014, 08:22 PM
Perkins follow-up remarks establish that that feckless jerk actually believes his metaphore.

johnw
01-27-2014, 09:40 PM
Since bobbys objects to the Huffpo link, here's a link to the original letter in the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304549504579316913982034286

Germany wasn't just a country with the Holocaust ahead of it, it was a country with many pogroms behind it. Kristalnacht was a return to that sort of behavior, and the Holocaust brought pogroms to an industrial scale.

Claiming the Occupy movement, which seems to have already burned itself out, was the equivalent to the Nazi's Kristalnacht is a way of tying them to the atrocity of the holocaust. By using the term "progressive" to describe them, he's attempting to tie progressives who did not approve of this violence to Nazi violence. Even most of the Occupy movement didn't approve of the black bloc's tactics (http://www.alternet.org/story/154028/black_bloc%3A_the_cancer_in_occupy). At the time, most of the people in the Occupy movement thought the black bloc were destroying the Occupy movement.

I don't believe Mr. Perkins will be able to find equivalent concerns about Kristalnacht on the part of the Nazi movement. The fact is, although I don't doubt he's a great businessman and kind to those who serve him, both in manner and in tips, he has stepped out of his area of expertise and is spouting nonsense.

johnw

Dan McCosh
01-27-2014, 10:48 PM
Maybe you would have had to gone to high school in a town where the local Catholic school was run by an anti-semitic priest from Canada who did, in fact, espouse theories about an international Jewish conspiracy of bankers, to see that maybe Perkins was not all that far off--a point of view that gained national prominence for his radio show. The rhetoric of anti-semitism hardly was restricted to Hitler's Nazi party prior to WWII or the holocaust. It was embraced by much of Europe and had a solid base in the United States as well. It also was accompanied by a populist rhetoric aimed at the concentration of wealth of the day. I don't agree that the concern today about the growing concentration of wealth is analogous, but I do see the connection that Perkins is attempting to make.

wardd
01-28-2014, 12:23 PM
question is to whom was he speaking

i doubt that when a wealthy dude speaks like this that he is addressing people he doesn't associate with

they have become so insular that i doubt they care much what the 99% think

Full Tilt
01-28-2014, 12:26 PM
question is to whom was he speaking

Us. He was going for effect.

wardd
01-28-2014, 12:35 PM
Us. He was going for effect.

how's that working out for him?

Osborne Russell
01-28-2014, 02:09 PM
You have me on semantics, I hope you are aglow.

It's not a matter of semantics, it's a matter of the aptness of the comparison. You say this guy "made a poor choice" as if the choices were (A) The Nazis or (B) The Muppets.

Osborne Russell
01-28-2014, 02:10 PM
Actually did laugh out loud!

Violating Godwin's law is always good for a quick laugh. ;)

Osborne Russell
01-28-2014, 02:17 PM
The rhetoric of anti-semitism . . . also was accompanied by a populist rhetoric aimed at the concentration of wealth of the day. I don't agree that the concern today about the growing concentration of wealth is analogous, but I do see the connection that Perkins is attempting to make.

He's playing with fire but too Red i.e. anti-historical and or obtuse to realize it. Do they really believe the rabble, in their passion for justice, will flock to the defense of the rich against the governments of the industrialized world?

Lew Barrett
01-28-2014, 03:05 PM
Dan, there's no doubt in my mind that you are an egalitarian (for lack of a better word) kind of guy, but please don't think I'm pandering here; I'm just attempting to establish a baseline. Where I believe I am at odds with your comments here relate to using any analogy to either slavery or genocide when comparing the world's ultra rich today to the plight of the Jews in Europe. His was such a cheap shot as to be beneath contempt.

One could have ignored this article if instead he had resorted to lesser platitudes, such as "don't judge the behavior of an entire group by the actions of the Hunt or Koch families." Instead, drawing a parallel to genocide makes the man a buffoon and his comments worthy of ridicule no matter how nice he is personally. It's just not a fit.

Hugh Conway
01-28-2014, 03:10 PM
not as much a "cheap shot" as completely clueless. take Himmler's letters that are recently being put in the press; the mindset isn't closely comparable.

the whining from the current billionaires is bizarre historically.

Lew Barrett
01-28-2014, 03:48 PM
I thought I indicated that.;)

johnw
01-28-2014, 04:06 PM
Maybe you would have had to gone to high school in a town where the local Catholic school was run by an anti-semitic priest from Canada who did, in fact, espouse theories about an international Jewish conspiracy of bankers, to see that maybe Perkins was not all that far off--a point of view that gained national prominence for his radio show. The rhetoric of anti-semitism hardly was restricted to Hitler's Nazi party prior to WWII or the holocaust. It was embraced by much of Europe and had a solid base in the United States as well. It also was accompanied by a populist rhetoric aimed at the concentration of wealth of the day. I don't agree that the concern today about the growing concentration of wealth is analogous, but I do see the connection that Perkins is attempting to make.

I also see the connection that Perkins is trying to make, although I think the appropriate verb is "straining." However, Perkins is neither a banker nor a Jew. He's just a clueless rich guy who wants to portray himself as a victim.