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genglandoh
01-25-2014, 01:20 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.

On the Prospect of Blackmail by the NSA
Sometimes when I hear public officials speaking out in defense of NSA spying, I can’t help thinking, even if just for a moment, “what if the NSA has something on that person and that’s why he or she is saying this?”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/prospect-blackmail-nsa

slug
01-25-2014, 01:30 PM
Its obvious that when a government doesn't trust its citizens, then its citizens wont trust the government.

domestic spying shows that the government doesnt trust its citizens .

Gerarddm
01-25-2014, 01:30 PM
No. Such practices are inherently Republican, e.g. Nixon's enemies list.

Is Geng using the WB Forum to blackmail rational discourse? " The whole world wonders ".

wardd
01-25-2014, 01:32 PM
yes, so you better watch out

i tried reporting you but the nsa said they already knew about you

Ian McColgin
01-25-2014, 01:35 PM
Actually, we have not seen evidence of the White House even indirectly encouraging political attacks. We have seen examples where if there can be said to be an Obama responsibility it's that he did not know of abuses.

The cited blog makes an excellent case that it could be anyone except Obama doing some exploiting, like intelligence careerists possibily having and using something on various politicians including Obama. No president, not even Nixon who had to improvise his own group and Bush 41 who'd once (laughably) directed the CIA, has actually controlled or used our national intelligence fiefdoms in any coordinated or witting manner. Used by them, sure. But not used them.

Glen Longino
01-25-2014, 01:48 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.

On the Prospect of Blackmail by the NSA
Sometimes when I hear public officials speaking out in defense of NSA spying, I can’t help thinking, even if just for a moment, “what if the NSA has something on that person and that’s why he or she is saying this?”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/prospect-blackmail-nsa

"We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition."

:DWe have? Ha!:D
Tell us what YOU see, not what WE see!
What else do you see? Little green men in your back yard?
Little red commies under your bed?
You're as scared of shadows as Rod B, and that is Very Scared!:D

slug
01-25-2014, 01:49 PM
Actually, we have not seen evidence of the White House even indirectly encouraging political attacks. We have seen examples where if there can be said to be an Obama responsibility it's that he did not know of abuses.

The cited blog makes an excellent case that it could be anyone except Obama doing some exploiting, like intelligence careerists possibily having and using something on various politicians including Obama. No president, not even Nixon who had to improvise his own group and Bush 41 who'd once (laughably) directed the CIA, has actually controlled or used our national intelligence fiefdoms in any coordinated or witting manner. Used by them, sure. But not used them.

the problem is that you will never know....Who did it ?

Leaders will use whatever power they have to stay in office. History teaches us this.

Obama wasn't using the IRS to discredit the opposition...his campaign workers did.

in future every scandal will be suspect.

bogdog
01-25-2014, 02:02 PM
Obama wasn't using the IRS to discredit the opposition...his campaign workers did.

in future every scandal will be suspect.

Would that have been his Republican campaign workers in the IRS?

slug
01-25-2014, 02:07 PM
Perhaps.. And .perhaps in future sympathetic NSA workers will do the same to smear opponents.

you will never know.

you do know is that they have the power to use domestic intelligence in thier favor.

skuthorp
01-25-2014, 02:07 PM
It's possible that the security agencies are playing their own game. It's not as if there's no precedent.

genglandoh
01-25-2014, 02:17 PM
No, we haven't. What we HAVE seen is the opposition trying to inflate just about every single move Obama makes into some sort of nefarious illegal act.

And it works... after all, you're constantly parroting their smears here in the bilge. What's it like, to be such a tool?

Yes we have seen Obama using many Government Agencies to attack political enemies.

Why You Should Care That The U.S. Government Has Targeted Catherine Engelbrecht And Her Organizations
Catherine’s life has changed dramatically since submitting those applications. The organization has been questioned by the FBI on numerous occasions; she has had her personal tax returns audited by the IRS; and has also had her small manufacturing business tax returns audited by the IRS. In addition, her business has been subjected to two unscheduled audits by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, and Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) and has undergone another unscheduled business audit by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...organizations/

bogdog
01-25-2014, 02:17 PM
Perhaps.. And .perhaps in future sympathetic NSA workers will do the same to smear opponents.

you will never know.

you do know is that they have the power to use domestic intelligence in thier favor.None of Obama's staff were ever involved with the IRS scandal. Here's what the Inspector General's office showed.
The Treasury inspector general (IG) whose report helped drive the IRS targeting controversy says it limited its examination to conservative groups because of a request from House Republicans.

A spokesman for Russell George, Treasury’s inspector general for tax administration, said they were asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) “to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations.”
They were also asked by House Republicans to examination progressive groups as well. So where does that leave Obama's involvement?

bogdog
01-25-2014, 02:22 PM
Yes we have seen Obama using many Government Agencies to attack political enemies.

Why You Should Care That The U.S. Government Has Targeted Catherine Engelbrecht And Her Organizations
Catherine’s life has changed dramatically since submitting those applications. The organization has been questioned by the FBI on numerous occasions; she has had her personal tax returns audited by the IRS; and has also had her small manufacturing business tax returns audited by the IRS. In addition, her business has been subjected to two unscheduled audits by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, and Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) and has undergone another unscheduled business audit by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...organizations/If you bothered to back check that story you might find some conflicting accurate information.

Willin'
01-25-2014, 02:24 PM
OSHA? Oh please! I hadn't heard that one before, unless maybe now the right is claiming Benghazi is an industrial accident.

Tom Montgomery
01-25-2014, 02:29 PM
Obamaphobia

A condition wherein someone suffers from obsessive negative delusions regarding Barack Obama. Those afflicted are often prone to propagation of false rumors about Obama in an attempt to discredit him, seemingly out of irrational fear of him and his presidency. Misquotes, twisting of facts, contextually inaccurate statements, and flat out lies that play on xenophobic prejudices and exaggerated jingoistic nationalism are staple attacks used by the Obamaphobe.

I got another one of those bull**** chain e-mails about Obama from Ted today. That's the third time this week. Ted totally has Obamaphobia.

Keith Wilson
01-25-2014, 05:26 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.We have not. We have seen multiple stories claiming this, which all evaporated when exposed to the light of day. And after they have been thoroughly debunked, we have seen the Fox Newsboys repeat them over and over and over and over and over . .

Full Tilt
01-25-2014, 05:46 PM
Blackmail is a strong word.

Let's just say 'control'.

Rick-Mi
01-25-2014, 06:18 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.


Of course, why do you think Judge Roberts decided at the last minute to change his mind and cast for Obamacare?

bogdog
01-25-2014, 06:43 PM
Of course, why do you think Judge Roberts decided at the last minute to change his mind and cast for Obamacare?Yeap, Roberts is Obama's puppet.

McMike
01-25-2014, 06:43 PM
Lol, nut jobs.

wardd
01-25-2014, 06:54 PM
We have not. We have seen multiple stories claiming this, which all evaporated when exposed to the light of day. And after they have been thoroughly debunked, we have seen the Fox Newsboys repeat them over and over and over and over and over . .

like peanuts, start from the beginnig

wardd
01-25-2014, 06:55 PM
fox headline " rosenfelt fails to prevent pearl harbor. obama fails to investigate""

Tom Montgomery
01-25-2014, 07:23 PM
Of course, why do you think Judge Roberts decided at the last minute to change his mind and cast for Obamacare?
Met a girl called lola and I took her back to my place
Feelin guilty, feelin scared, hidden cameras everywhere
Stop! hold on. stay in control

Girl, I want you here with me
But Im really not as cool as I'd like to be
Cause there's a red, under my bed
And there's a little yellow man in my head
And there's a true blue inside of me
That keeps stoppin me, touchin ya, watchin ya, lovin ya

Paranoia, the destroyer.
Paranoia, the destroyer.

CWSmith
01-25-2014, 09:20 PM
I don't think Obama is doing it, but the real question is "Do you trust the next person?"

Waddie
01-26-2014, 12:08 AM
fox headline " rosenfelt fails to prevent pearl harbor. obama fails to investigate""

Roosevelt was warned by the British, who had broken the Japanese code sooner than the US, that there was an imminent attack planned for Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt's people insist they never got it. Quite the conundrum.

regards,
Waddie

Full Tilt
01-26-2014, 12:12 AM
Remember the ​Maine!

Full Tilt
01-26-2014, 12:15 AM
And the Lusitania and the Gulf of Tonkin and Saddam's weapon's of mass destruction and the WTC and the Sochi Olympics.........wait, that one hasn't happened, yet.

Waddie
01-26-2014, 12:25 AM
Usually if a capability exists it eventually gets used.

regards,
Waddie

wardd
01-26-2014, 01:14 AM
Remember the ​Maine!
another investigative failure by obama

Mrleft8
01-26-2014, 10:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHHvqncASrI

genglandoh
02-13-2014, 08:05 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.

On the Prospect of Blackmail by the NSA
Sometimes when I hear public officials speaking out in defense of NSA spying, I can’t help thinking, even if just for a moment, “what if the NSA has something on that person and that’s why he or she is saying this?”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/prospect-blackmail-nsa

USAToday
The program makes it easy for the president to spy on andblackmail his enemies.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/02/10/nsa-spying-surveillance-congress-column/5340281/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/02/10/nsa-spying-surveillance-congress-column/5340281/)

Garret
02-13-2014, 08:13 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.

On the Prospect of Blackmail by the NSA
Sometimes when I hear public officials speaking out in defense of NSA spying, I can’t help thinking, even if just for a moment, “what if the NSA has something on that person and that’s why he or she is saying this?”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/prospect-blackmail-nsa

Why do you make up stuff when the man hands things to you on a platter? I'm referring to the recent ambassadorial appointments.

genglandoh
02-14-2014, 08:24 AM
Why do you make up stuff when the man hands things to you on a platter? I'm referring to the recent ambassadorial appointments.

Did you not notice this link was from the ACLU?

Soundbounder
02-14-2014, 09:13 AM
Roosevelt was warned by the British, who had broken the Japanese code sooner than the US, that there was an imminent attack planned for Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt's people insist they never got it. Quite the conundrum.

regards,
Waddie

Not exactly. US and British intelligence had gathered evidence of a planned Japanese attack, but it was nowhere near so specific. It was believed that the Japanese would attack a US ship, the Philippines, French IndoChina, or some other island much closer to Japan.

Anything beyond that is speculation and a conspiracy theory.

Rum_Pirate
02-14-2014, 09:18 AM
Actually, we have not seen evidence of the White House even indirectly encouraging political attacks.

Has there been evidence of the White House even indirectly discouraging political attacks. :rolleyes:

Garret
02-14-2014, 01:35 PM
Did you not notice this link was from the ACLU?

Don't care. Why worry about conspiracy theories when there are real things happening that one can complain about?

John Smith
02-14-2014, 01:59 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.

On the Prospect of Blackmail by the NSA
Sometimes when I hear public officials speaking out in defense of NSA spying, I can’t help thinking, even if just for a moment, “what if the NSA has something on that person and that’s why he or she is saying this?”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/prospect-blackmail-nsa

Actually, only you and Issa see all this.

John Smith
02-14-2014, 02:11 PM
I think we lefties may be missing something. If an infant can be born in Kenya, but arrange birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers, and have a birth certificate created, is anything not possible for him once he's an adult?

Waddie
02-14-2014, 03:26 PM
Not exactly. US and British intelligence had gathered evidence of a planned Japanese attack, but it was nowhere near so specific. It was believed that the Japanese would attack a US ship, the Philippines, French IndoChina, or some other island much closer to Japan.

Anything beyond that is speculation and a conspiracy theory.

I disagree. The research on this topic is all over the place, concerning how specific the British could be regarding an attack. Read the Wiki on this; there were many who expected an "imminent" attack.

regards,
Waddie

John Smith
02-14-2014, 03:40 PM
It does seem on can find something to support whatever one wishes to believe.

Hard to tell how accurate any of the movies are. Is it, for example, true that the guys watching the radar reported a large group of planes coming in and were told not to worry about it?

Rum_Pirate
02-14-2014, 03:54 PM
I think we lefties may be missing something. If an infant can be born in Kenya, but arrange birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers, and have a birth certificate created, is anything not possible for him once he's an adult?


OMG John have you turned into a 'birther' ? :ycool:

Garret
02-14-2014, 04:07 PM
OMG John have you turned into a 'birther' ? :ycool:

Well - we know all those things are true. Just ask Fox or Trump - 2 unimpeachable sources!

Soundbounder
02-14-2014, 05:07 PM
I disagree. The research on this topic is all over the place

regards,
Waddie

Speculative research. There are lots of books on many conspiracy theories: JFK, September 11, Vince Foster. Tons of research


Read the Wiki on this
Do you mean this one?

Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge conspiracy theory
The Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge conspiracy theory is the idea that American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) officials had advance knowledge of Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan)'s December 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor). Ever since the Japanese attack there has been debate as to how and why the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)had been caught off guard and how much and when American officials knew of Japanese plans for an attack.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-2)
Several writers, including journalist Robert Stinnett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stinnett)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-3) and retired US Navy Rear Admiral Robert A. Theobald (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Alfred_Theobald),[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory#cite_note-4) have argued that various parties high in the U.S. and British (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) governments knew of the attack in advance and may even have let it happen or encouraged it in order to force America into war via the "back door.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory

ALLIED INTELLIGENCE
Throughout 1941, the U.S., Britain, and the Netherlands collected considerable evidence suggesting Japan was planning some new military adventure. The Japanese attack on the U.S. in December was essentially a side operation to the main Japanese thrust to the South against Malaya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Malaya) and the Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines)—many more resources, especially Imperial Army resources, were devoted to these attacks as compared to Pearl Harbor. Many in the Japanese military (both Army and Navy) had disagreed with Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoroku_Yamamoto)'s idea of attacking the U.S. Fleet at Pearl Harbor when it was first proposed in early 1941, and remained reluctant after the Navy approved planning and training for an attack beginning in spring 1941, and through the highest level Imperial Conferences in September and November which first approved it as policy (allocation of resources, preparation for execution), and then authorized the attack. The Japanese focus on South-East Asia was quite accurately reflected in U.S. intelligence assessments; there were warnings of attacks against Thailand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand) (the Kra Peninsula), Malaya, French Indochina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Indochina), the Dutch East Indies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies) (Davao-Weigo Line), the Philippines, evenRussia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia). Pearl Harbor was not mentioned. In fact, when the final part of the "14-Part Message" (also called the "one o'clock message") crossed Kramer's desk, he cross-referenced the time (per usual practice, not the brainwave often portrayed) and tried to connect the timing to a Japanese convoy (the Thai invasion force) recently detected by Admiral Hart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_C._Hart) in the Philippines

Cuyahoga Chuck
02-14-2014, 05:36 PM
We have seen how Obama is using the IRS, FBI, OSHA, and the ATF to attack opposition.
So it is very possible Obama is using the NSA also.

On the Prospect of Blackmail by the NSA
Sometimes when I hear public officials speaking out in defense of NSA spying, I can’t help thinking, even if just for a moment, “what if the NSA has something on that person and that’s why he or she is saying this?”
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/prospect-blackmail-nsa

First you start reading the NY Times and now you are cozzying upto the ACLU. Are you about to jump ship from the Teaparty?

bobbys
02-14-2014, 05:46 PM
Well - we know all those things are true. Just ask Fox or Trump - 2 unimpeachable sources!
.
Ask Hillary's people first.

LeeG
02-14-2014, 07:26 PM
"How much for the women?"


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCCBMlHnRM