Smelting lead

[landlocked sailor]

I have a good supply of lead wheel weights that I'd like to smelt into ingots for future use. Any suggestions for containers to pour the lead into that could then be removed from the ingot? Rick

[StevenBauer]

Bread loaf pans. But only fill them up halfway. Thats so you can pick up the ingots. smile.gif

Steven

[TomF]

Originally posted by landlocked sailor:
I have a good supply of lead wheel weights that I'd like to smelt into ingots for future use. Any suggestions for containers to pour the lead into that could then be removed from the ingot? RickBread pans, which never get used again for anything else!

[Thorne]

Coffee cans, depending on the strength of the soldering and amount of lead poured in.

Don't forget the beeswax for clearing the crud off the top of the lead.

[Steve McMahon]

Why?
Why not just store them in empty paint cans or the like as wheel weights? I can't see why you would want to melt them down twice.

[J. A.Tones]

Use standard sized bread loaf pans and pour a small amount of old crank case oil in and let it cover the inside before pouring in the lead. Using regular old bread pans and filling them up to overflowing gave me 55 to 60 pound blocks and the crud flows off as the molten lead overflows. I did all my casting on top of a part sheet of concrete board that I scrounged from a local building site 'cause it was broken. When the overflow cooled I tossed it back in the ladle and melted it down again. Cast 2500 pounds of ballast blocks that way.
Your mileage may vary!!
John

[Ken Hutchins]

A piece of angle iron with the ends blocked with a welded on plate or simply a clamp holding the blocks on the ends.

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by Steve McMahon:
Why?
Why not just store them in empty paint cans or the like as wheel weights? I can't see why you would want to melt them down twice.I'm also curious about this. It seems like for the big melt it would be easier to have small bits to melt down rather than big bricks that will be slower to melt. Isn't most casting metal sold in little beads rather than bricks? However, is it helpful to melt the scrap lead once first to skim off most of the crud so that you have purer material to work with for the big melt?

[capt jake]

However, is it helpful to melt the scrap lead once first to skim off most of the crud so that you have purer material to work with for the big melt? That is what I have found. I have all of my lead cast into ingots. I was also concerned about re-melting it. On a recent project, I threw an ingot into the pan and turned up the heat. In no time it was liquid again. In approximately the same amount of time it took to melt the lead weights for the original ingot.

[PeterSibley]

I wouldn't recommend bread tins etc unless you have a limited amoout to process,they are rather delicate and get quickly crumpled by rough useage smile.gif

I'd follow Kens's advice,make them out of angle or as I did taper flange channel with a taper cut on the ends so the ingots drop out freely.Mine range in size between 40 and 60 lb,a bit heavy but it makes them easier to stack.5700 lb so far ....all wheel weights.

[willmarsh3]

I'd avoid using coffee cans to heat lead in. I've read that they can fall apart with the melted lead which would not be good. The side seam is soldered - and the solder will melt with the lead. Also I don't know how strong the crimp in the bottom seam is, particularly with 50 lbs of lead in it.
I used an old sauce pan I got from a garage sale for $.25 - but my pour was only 30 lbs so I melted the wheel weights, skimmed off the dross, and did the pour all in one melt.
Will.

[Mr.O]

A real simple way that worked for me was to go tothe local Goodwill and gather up about 10 icecube trays. They're aluminum and hold about 15 to 20 pounds of lead; depending on how much you put in them, also the lead doesn't stick and so the readily fall out as nice little ingots. I melted my lead in a old cast iron pot.

[Bob Cleek]

I'm a bread loaf pan guy myself. About three quarters of a pan will give you around 25-35 pounds of lead. More than that is too heavy. It isn't the overall weight that's a problem. It's that if they are more than 25 pounds or so, you can't grab and lift them because you can't pick them up just squeezing onto them unless you are one of those gorillas that do push ups on your finger tips.

Let me give you one word of caution about wheel weights, as well as just about anything else you smelt. BE CAREFUL TO PROVIDE YOURSELF WITH ADEQUATE VENTILLATION... OUTDOORS! I can't stress this enough. While lead fumes aren't all THAT deadly and don't really start fuming until the lead's well beyond the melting point, which you may be unlikely to reach, mixed metals in the lead, like antimony, or, particularly with wheel weights the ZINC on the steel clips, produce DEADLY HEAVY METAL FUMES. It isn't like you'll notice the smell, either. It's the sort of poisoning that you don't even notice until your liver shuts down for good a couple of days later. Professional foundrymen know about this stuff, but stupid goofs like us don't. Now ya do. I'm not kidding. People, even experienced people, die this way every year.

[ 11-03-2005, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Bob Cleek ]

[Rick Tyler]

Originally posted by Bob Cleek:
It's the sort of poisoning that you don't even notice until your liver shuts down for good a couple of days later. Professional foundrymen know about this stuff, but stupid goofs like us don't. Now ya do. I'm not kidding. People, even experienced people, die this way every year.Well, that's cheery. Does a NIOSH respirator with activated carbon and p95 filter help?

[ 11-04-2005, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Rick Tyler ]

[landlocked sailor]

Thanks everybody. I am strictly an OUTDOOR smelter. Rick

[wyndham]

Listen carefully to what Cleek says. FRESH AIR AND LOTS OF IT. Forget about respirators and filters unless you have a fresh air respirator with positive ventilation from a filtered source far away from the smelting operation.
FRESH AIR AND LOTS OF IT.

[Torna]

And of course the other safety concern that must always be mentioned when discussing smelting with novices is:
Never put anything in the melt pot that is even remotely wet/damp.
The tiniest droplet of water that makes it below the surface of the lead will 'instantly' vaporize blowing molten lead all over (you).
Pre-dry everything, at >250F for a couple of hours.
-leif

[Bob Perkins]

A couple of folks asked about melting twice:

I'd melt twice because if you are converting salvage lead (wheel weights) to something like a keel. The smelting processes with *purify* the lead so to speak. You can remove the slag and metal clips during the first melt.

Then, you have a nice ingot that is of a known weight. So when you need to pour a 600lb keel, you can measure it up simply.

Your second melt can focus on the pour and not cleanup of the material.

Bob

[Sailman58]

While on the safety topic, wear natural fabric clothing, no synthetics. Synthetics have a nasty tendency to melt on your skin and make a burn worse than it should be. Cotton or wool with leather boots and eye protection with side shields should be the uniform of the day.

Ron

[Alan D. Hyde]

Ron's right.

Small splattered drops of lead will run right off a good thick wool shirt.

Wear the thick leather welders' gloves with the big gauntlets, too. And stout workboots.

Alan

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by Rick Tyler:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bob Cleek:
It's the sort of poisoning that you don't even notice until your liver shuts down for good a couple of days later. Professional foundrymen know about this stuff, but stupid goofs like us don't. Now ya do. I'm not kidding. People, even experienced people, die this way every year.Well, that's cheery. Does a NIOSH respirator with activated carbon and p95 filter help?</font>[/QUOTE]I believe there are metal fume cartridges for respirators, but I would want to research them pretty carefully before I counted on one. Metal fumes make paint mist look like a walk in the park. To the best of my knowledge, an activated carbon/p95 filter is useless for metal fumes.

[Paul Morris]

For making lead ingots, I used some pieces of 4" wide channel iron about 10 inches long with ends welded on them of 1/8" steel plate. The tapred inside shape allows the lead to drop out nicely when cooled. The steel of the mold is heavy enough that I can put the torch to it if I need to add some more and re-melt to the original pour that might have run short. I try and do several at a time.
These 12 lb lead bricks are great to have around the shop for all kinds of uses. Weighting down wide scarf joints especially.
~~~ Paul ~~~

[Paul Morris]

For making lead ingots, I used some pieces of 4" wide channel iron about 10 inches long with ends welded on them of 1/8" steel plate. The tapred inside shape allows the lead to drop out nicely when cooled. The steel of the mold is heavy enough that I can put the torch to it if I need to add some more and re-melt to the original pour that might have run short. I try and do several at a time.
These 12 lb lead bricks are great to have around the shop for all kinds of uses. Weighting down wide scarf joints especially.
~~~ Paul ~~~

[DanO]

I was surprised at how easy it was to make ingots out of the wheel weights. I would absolutely caution you, however, to avoid the fumes generated by this process and to do it outside. I melted enough wheel weights to yield 1,050 pounds, which I intend to use for my 900 pound keel (I'm building a Buzzards Bay 14).

I used an old turkey pot my wife picked up at a yard sale for a couple of bucks.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid191/p6cabbd78cd4cdd560f646f115daebd2c/f1dc2b52.jpg

I'd suggest this type of pot if you have to melt a lot for several reasons. First, my ingots range from 38 to 70 pounds each, depending obviously on how full the pot was. After the first few experiments, I ended up with ingots consistently weighing about 55-60 pounds each. This wasn't too heavy for me to move around, given the configuration of the molded ingot, which brings me to the second point. An oval pot like this allows you to easily scoop out the metal clips and dross. Also, this pot fits nicely in the old gas grill I converted for my boatbuilding needs (I also use this as a heat source for steaming frames, etc which is why you see the cover with a pipe flange mounted on it).

I'd simply fill the pot, put it on a rack I set just above the burner, close the lid, come back in a half hour or so, scoop out the crap, and let it cool. The result was an oval lead "pancake" about 1 1/2# thick, which stacks nicely, too.

If all goes well, I'll be doing my big meltdown in a couple of weeks. I have an old welded seam water tank, which I'll use with a wood fire. I'll take (and apply) all the safety advice I've picked up here and elsewhere. By the way, there are some good posts on web page (http://www.havenbuilders.com)

Edited to add the following picture:

This is the stack of ingots ready to go...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid193/p40fadeddf690dbe9f9d29fc6987a72c9/f1963e3f.jpg

Dan

[ 11-04-2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: DanO ]

[capt jake]

As long as we are talking about lead again; I need to have my memory refreshed. A cubic inch of lead weighs how much? Cubic foot, or whatever you have; I can get the numbers from that.

thanks! smile.gif

[Don Z.]

Originally posted by capt jake:
As long as we are talking about lead again; I need to have my memory refreshed. A cubic inch of lead weighs how much? Cubic foot, or whatever you have; I can get the numbers from that.

thanks! smile.gif 725# per Cu Ft comes to mind, but I'm too tired to look it up tonight... Anyone want to tell me how close my memory is?

[merlinron]

725# is close, i think 710#/cu.ft. is the right number.

[ssor]

close enough. :cool:

[emichaels]

From Machinerys handbook:

Lead: Density .397 lb/cubic-in X 1728 = 686 lb/cubic-ft. Melting pt is 621 F.

[DanO]

I just moved my 1,000 lbs of lead from the garage to my basement, where it will stay dry while awaiting the big meltdown in a couple of weeks. I never figured I'd get so out of breath moving around what doesn't even total 2 cu feet!!! :rolleyes:

[ssor]

I'll bet that moving a thousand pound of feathers would leave you just as breathless.

Reading on a separate website powdered charcoal helps to scavenge the oxides from molten lead.

Had a friend that cast a keel in the ground after melting the lead in an old cast iron bath tub. Don't know how he insured that the ground was dry. :eek:

[DanO]

While I can't be sure the ground will be totally dry, the mold box that I'm pouring the lead into will be, as will the tank that I'm putting the ingots into.

I'm not sure the purpose of the charcoal?

By the way, I wonder how many cubic feet 1,000 pounds of feathers might take up?

Dan

[emichaels]

Originally posted by DanO:
While I can't be sure the ground will be totally dry, the mold box that I'm pouring the lead into will be, as will the tank that I'm putting the ingots into.

I'm not sure the purpose of the charcoal?

By the way, I wonder how many cubic feet 1,000 pounds of feathers might take up?

DanDepends on the bird from which you pluck them. But I guess a s*#t load.

[ssor]

The powdered charcoal scavenges the oxygen from the lead oxides on the surface of the melt.

[emichaels]

Originally posted by ssor:
Reading on a separate website powdered charcoal helps to scavenge the oxides from molten lead. :eek: What exactly do you do with the powdered charcoal ??