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View Full Version : It's stuff like this that gives Christians a bad rep...



BrianY
01-23-2014, 12:37 PM
No, not ALL Christians are like this, but when some of you wonder why the faith is met with hostility by some non-Christians,this sort of thing is probably part of the reason.


https://www.laaclu.org/press/2014/012214.htm


Louisiana School Sued for Proselytizing and Religious Harassment of Sixth-Grade Student

SHREVEPORT, La.—The American Civil Liberties Union and the ACLU of Louisiana filed a federal lawsuit today against the Sabine Parish School Board, alleging that officials at one school harassed and proselytized a sixth-grader because of his Buddhist faith. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of two parents, Scott and Sharon Lane, and three of their children, including their son, "C.C.," who is a lifelong Buddhist of Thai descent.

"Public schools should be welcoming places for students of all backgrounds," said Marjorie Esman, executive director of the ACLU of Louisiana. "No child should be harassed and made to feel like an outsider in his own classroom, and students should not have to endure school officials constantly imposing their religious beliefs on them while they are trying to learn."

According to the complaint filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Louisiana, C.C enrolled in Negreet High School, which serves students in kindergarten through twelfth grade, earlier this year and quickly became the target of harassment by school staff. His science teacher, Rita Roark, has repeatedly taught students that the Earth was created by God 6,000 years ago, that evolution is "impossible," and that the Bible is "100 percent true."

Roark also regularly features religious questions on her tests such as "ISN'T IT AMAZING WHAT THE _____________ HAS MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" When C.C. did not write in Roark's expected answer, "LORD," she belittled him in front of the rest of the class. While studying other religions, Roark has also told students that Buddhism is "stupid."

Beyond Roark's classroom, the school also regularly incorporates official Christian prayer into class and school events. School officials display religious iconography throughout hallways and classrooms, including a large portrait of Jesus Christ, and an electronic marquee in front of the school scrolls Bible verses as students enter the building.

When the Lanes objected to these practices, Sabine Parish Superintendent Sara Ebarb told them that, "this is the Bible belt." She suggested that C.C. should "change" his faith and advised the Lanes that their only recourse was to transfer him to another district school 25 miles away where, in her words, "there are more Asians." Ultimately, C.C.'s parents did transfer him to another school to protect him, but school officials there also unconstitutionally promote religion.

"The treatment this child and his family have endured is not only disgraceful, it's unconstitutional," said Heather L. Weaver, senior staff attorney for the ACLU Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief.

In addition to the federal lawsuit, the ACLU and ACLU of Louisiana will submit complaints and requests for investigation today to the U.S. Department of Education and U.S. Department of Justice.

bogdog
01-23-2014, 12:54 PM
That's the way things were done when I was in school.

Keith Wilson
01-23-2014, 01:05 PM
Well, at least we can be confident the school district is going to lose this one. Totally out of bounds.

Gerarddm
01-23-2014, 01:12 PM
Ugh. That 'science' teacher should be fired immediately.

Tom Montgomery
01-23-2014, 01:15 PM
This is a Public School system? :mad:

David G
01-23-2014, 02:34 PM
Careful there, friends.

The issue here is not Christianity... but bigotry:
big·ot·ry [big-uh-tree] Show IPA
noun, plural big·ot·ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creed), belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

It exists in many places, and is practiced by adherents of many religions. In fact we'd be hard-pressed to name a religion - none of whose members ever have or will behave in such a manner. Ask a Sikh, or Muslum, or Buddhist what life is like in largely Hindu India, for example.

In the U.S. - and especially in the 'Bible Belt' - the families are largely Christian. And it is such an ingrained part of the culture, that learning to honor an increasingly diverse set of religious beliefs amongst students... will be hard. A cultural sea change. Sociologically speaking - there are benefits to a cohesive culture. That would argue for some leeway for the dominant religion. And some understanding should be extended because, in the South, they have a long history of (and, I'd argue, a resulting comfort with) the mindset of bigotry. I know that's not a PC thing to say, but I think it has to be recognized and factored in. BUT... public schools are part of our government. And our government is founded upon the Constitution - which specifically dictates a separation between itself and religion - favoring no spiritual belief or system over another.

So... if a family chooses to make an issue of it, or if a family is pressed to the point where there is no choice but to make an issue of it... they have every right to do so.

I don't actually fault the science teacher in this scenario so much as I do the administrators. She's an ignorant, sheltered, self-involved twit. A type not uncommon wherever you might go, but not the main problem. She made a mistake. She could have been, and should have been, corrected. Those in authority chose NOT to correct her, but rather to back her up in her error. Now the courts will have to correct THEM. <sigh>

TomF
01-23-2014, 02:41 PM
Even twits, when they're providing a public, tax-funded service, shouldn't be able to shelter behind their ignorance. In cases like this, it's wilful ignorance.

I agree the teacher needs to be disciplined, along with administration members.

CWSmith
01-23-2014, 02:46 PM
I agree that it's bigotry, but it's bigotry by Christians and that embarrasses me.

MLK was opposed to religion in school. As a Catholic I firmly agree. I don't want these nit wits teaching "Christianity" to mine or anyone I know.

I will relate one quick story - an atheist friend when he was young was beaten up routinely by the good Christian kids in his school (Alabama if that means anything). Today he is wildly anti-Religion. Go figure. Actions of fools like these only drive people away from what you want them to consider.

And fire the science teacher.

John Smith
01-23-2014, 03:01 PM
I agree that it's bigotry, but it's bigotry by Christians and that embarrasses me.

MLK was opposed to religion in school. As a Catholic I firmly agree. I don't want these nit wits teaching "Christianity" to mine or anyone I know.

I will relate one quick story - an atheist friend when he was young was beaten up routinely by the good Christian kids in his school (Alabama if that means anything). Today he is wildly anti-Religion. Go figure. Actions of fools like these only drive people away from what you want them to consider.

And fire the science teacher.

As in most walks of life, the "squeaky wheel" gets the attention. This is the squeaky wheel of religion.

bogdog
01-23-2014, 03:03 PM
I'm just disappointed, Bobby Jindal spent all this effort recently to improve education in Louisiana with his religious school voucher program, yet they're already teaching religion in the public schools...

skuthorp
01-23-2014, 03:05 PM
Sue the a55 of them, individually and severally, it's only the money they'll understand.

seanz
01-23-2014, 03:14 PM
His science teacher, Rita Roark, has repeatedly taught students that the Earth was created by God 6,000 years ago, that evolution is "impossible," and that the Bible is "100 percent true."

Science teacher? At least the kid gets to escape her, the rest of his grade is stuck there.

CWSmith
01-23-2014, 03:16 PM
As in most walks of life, the "squeaky wheel" gets the attention. This is the squeaky wheel of religion.

True, sadly. If you hold firm beliefs it is hard to put them aside and do a job that does not conform. I get that. However, I also understand "integrity" and if your beliefs prevent you from doing the job, do something else. Work in a Christian school that very often pays less. Don't take tax money to fulfill your own illegal agenda. Faith without integrity reflects badly on the rest of us.

pefjr
01-23-2014, 04:57 PM
Well, what do you expect when you have the largest christian cult leaders calling homosexuality a defect? When you have the leader pope encouraging shamanism practices and even honoring the dead based upon lies and deceit of made up miracles from the grave. When you have evangelist TV millionaires wearing thousand dollar suits, 20 thousand dollar watches. When you have another cult protesting homosexuality at a soldiers funeral. When you have a Congress voting 396-9 on a national motto of trust in superstition. When your country cannot elect a President that is not superstitious.

This is a switch, usually it's the parents that present these problems of religious ignorance to the Principle and Teachers. It's rare to have such open stupidity coming from a licensed teacher. Mostly the religious teachers just quietly teach less Science, and more religion , but do it so they don't raise suspicion. That is a characteristic of a strongly religious country and a school system like ours.

Peerie Maa
01-23-2014, 05:10 PM
True, sadly. If you hold firm beliefs it is hard to put them aside and do a job that does not conform. I get that. However, I also understand "integrity" and if your beliefs prevent you from doing the job, do something else. Work in a Christian school that very often pays less. Don't take tax money to fulfill your own illegal agenda. Faith without integrity reflects badly on the rest of us.

She was working in a "Christian School" that under your constitution has no right to be. The problem is that she and her employers were dishonest in their pretence that they teach science.

We have faith schools, but we do enforce compliance with an honest curriculum and adequate standards of teaching.

bogdog
01-23-2014, 05:11 PM
... Mostly the religious teachers just quietly teach less Science, and more religion , but do it so they don't raise suspicion. That is a characteristic of a strongly religious country and a school system like ours.In the southeast, religion(Christianity) gets a fair amount of air time in rural red school systems.

Rich Jones
01-23-2014, 05:28 PM
Before I condemn anyone, I'd like to hear the other side's story. From the above report, it seems that all the 'information' is coming from the ACLU, which loves to make mountains out of mole hills. They portray the school as something out of the 1920's, which is hard to swallow. Chances are that the school/teacher was out of line, but to what extent? Certainly, this isn't the first non-Christian kid to walk through the doors of that school.

Peerie Maa
01-23-2014, 05:39 PM
Before I condemn anyone, I'd like to hear the other side's story. From the above report, it seems that all the 'information' is coming from the ACLU, which loves to make mountains out of mole hills. They portray the school as something out of the 1920's, which is hard to swallow. Chances are that the school/teacher was out of line, but to what extent? Certainly, this isn't the first non-Christian kid to walk through the doors of that school.

Defendants in the suit are the Sabine Parish School Board, Ebarb, Roark and Negreet High Principal Gene Wright.
The Associated Press reached out to the superintendent but she was unavailable for comment late Wednesday. We got on Facebook and found a page devoted to photos from Negreet High School and, sure enough, there’s one of what appears to be a student and an administrator at a school function unveiling a large portrait of Jesus. (We’re relatively certain the photograph was taken at an official school function because there are more than a dozen other photos from the same event — an 8th grade graduation ceremony — in the school’s gymnasium.)



From the local media: http://www.theind.com/news/indreporter/16291-sabine-parish-the-bible-belt-s-big-brass-buckle

JimD
01-23-2014, 06:14 PM
She told her students that “if evolution was real, it would still be happening: Apes would be turning into humans today.” http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/23/dont-want-to-be-hassled-by-creationist-teacher-give-up-buddhism-louisiana-public-school-says/

skuthorp
01-23-2014, 06:17 PM
She told her students that “if evolution was real, it would still be happening: Apes would be turning into humans today.”

The traffic does seem in the other direction in this case.

If it wasn't so serious it would make a great satirical sketch, except that self satire has gazumped the professional comedians.

CWSmith
01-23-2014, 06:20 PM
She was working in a "Christian School" that under your constitution has no right to be.

To be what? Exist?

JimD
01-23-2014, 06:21 PM
...The traffic does seem in the other direction in this case... Yes, but as long as they're God fearing Christian apes I reckon its OK.

pefjr
01-23-2014, 06:21 PM
In the southeast, religion(Christianity) gets a fair amount of air time in rural red school systems.It's not as bad today as when I grew up in South Georgia. I escaped when 17 yrs. of age. I would say the religious blanket is thick in Idaho, Montana, Utah. It does have benefits. Compare Utah with any other state for health, jails, education, etc.

Peerie Maa
01-23-2014, 06:26 PM
To be what? Exist?

Pretty well. Separation of church and state or something. "Christian school" is an oxymoron in the US system, yes?

bogdog
01-23-2014, 06:27 PM
It's not as bad today as when I grew up in South Georgia. I escaped when 17 yrs. of age. I would say the religious blanket is thick in Idaho, Montana, Utah. It does have benefits. Compare Utah with any other state for health, jails, education, etc.It's more militant today in rural districts so I'd say it's still bad.

CWSmith
01-23-2014, 07:00 PM
Pretty well. Separation of church and state or something. "Christian school" is an oxymoron in the US system, yes?

No. Separation is not meant to be intolerance - quite the opposite. Christian schools should be private and privately funded.

Peerie Maa
01-23-2014, 07:03 PM
No. Separation is not meant to be intolerance - quite the opposite. Christian schools should be private and privately funded.
Which the school in question is not.

Are privately funded independent schools required to stick to a curriculum, e.g. teaching useful science to turn out employable people?

CWSmith
01-23-2014, 07:07 PM
Are privately funded independent schools required to stick to a curriculum, e.g. teaching useful science to turn out employable people?

Don't know. It probably varies, but they will argue they teach it adequately and within the prescribed limits.

I would not send a kid there.

Peerie Maa
01-23-2014, 07:16 PM
Don't know. It probably varies, but they will argue they teach it adequately and within the prescribed limits.

I would not send a kid there.

We try to enforce the same standards across all of our schools.

Al-Madinah free faith school expected to be closed by the government

Schools minister to decide on 1 November whether to terminate the 'chaotic' Derby faith school's funding agreement
(http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/17/al-madinah-free-school-faces-closure-government)

PeterSibley
01-23-2014, 09:16 PM
Science teacher? At least the kid gets to escape her, the rest of his grade is stuck there.

Nice to see the local US affiliate of the Taliban is spreading the same crap it does in the ME.

skipper68
01-23-2014, 09:28 PM
Every religion has the same Entity, yet they decipher the rules to their decisions.
Woman haters, Worshiping Monkeys or a Cow.
Cant the world agree that "WHOMEVER it is, IT WANTS NO SOULS KILLED in it's stead? Couldn't that cure war expenses?
Drop food, building materials, candy for kids?
War should be the LAST thing at your families dinner table, or when you wake up.
This includes Soldiers also. You don't get PTSD, by loving others than you. EVERY ONE, EVERY RELIGION has the right to believe. Never to hate others.
NOT the right to choose for you.
USA USA!! FREEDOM OF RELIGION never has a DEAD SOUL included.<3 NEVER.

BrianY
01-23-2014, 09:35 PM
Before I condemn anyone, I'd like to hear the other side's story. From the above report, it seems that all the 'information' is coming from the ACLU, which loves to make mountains out of mole hills. They portray the school as something out of the 1920's, which is hard to swallow. Chances are that the school/teacher was out of line, but to what extent? Certainly, this isn't the first non-Christian kid to walk through the doors of that school.

Read the complaint here: https://www.laaclu.org/resources/2014/012213LaneComplaint.pdf

the supporting documents including the tests with the fill in the blank question are here:
https://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/lane-v-sabine-parish-school-board

Keith Wilson
01-23-2014, 09:44 PM
Sabine Parish is VERY rural, largest town 2700 people, far western LA south of Shreveport on the Texas border. That's as deep south as you can get, and a long, long way from the world most of us inhabit. I expect the good people of the Sabine Parish School Board are about to have a very blunt encounter with 21st century US constitutional law.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Map_of_Louisiana_highlighting_Sabine_Parish.svg/200px-Map_of_Louisiana_highlighting_Sabine_Parish.svg.pn g

bamamick
01-24-2014, 09:21 AM
I agree, Keith. I think this is a case of a very isolated and insular community that is about to be shown that things have to change whether the majority of people living there want them to or not. I can not even relate to this kind of thing, but I do know of many cases of political corruption in small towns around here (southwest Alabama) where new people moving into those communities exposed vice and corruption that had been going on forever. The idea that a school superintendent would recommend that a family move out of a parish (county, for those who don't understand Louisiana) because of their religious beliefs is incredible in that anyone would actually believe they could get away with saying such a thing.

I think that it is too easy to judge the people of Sabine Parish based on something like this without putting it into the proper context. Mobile County went through this stuff 50 years ago because Mobile County has and always has had a very diverse population. You can't even GET to Sabine Parish unless you are specifically going there, and they may truly be 50 years behind the times over there. Hopefully their 'rude awakening' doesn't include the violence and social strife we had in my home county when I was young.

Mickey Lake

bogdog
01-24-2014, 11:08 AM
When we have states with super-majority conservative legislatures we are going to see places like Sabine Parish. North Carolina has more that a few school districts who trample on the Constitution. Even more insidious are the residents who pass on "advice" to those they think may oppose the the schools positions whether they are parents or teachers. Just an example is Mississippi's law of last year.

SENATE BILL NO. 2633


1 AN ACT TO ENACT THE "MISSISSIPPI STUDENT RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES
2 ACT OF 2013"; TO PROVIDE FOR VOLUNTARY STUDENT EXPRESSION OF
3 RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC
4 SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL ALLOW RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN CLASS
5 ASSIGNMENTS; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL PROVIDE
6 STUDENTS WITH THE FREEDOM TO ORGANIZE RELIGIOUS GROUPS AND
7 ACTIVITIES; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL PROVIDE
8 A LIMITED PUBLIC FORUM FOR STUDENT SPEAKERS AT NONGRADUATION AND
9 GRADUATION EVENTS; TO PROVIDE A MODEL POLICY FOR VOLUNTARY
10 RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES.

pefjr
01-24-2014, 11:29 AM
It's more militant today in rural districts so I'd say it's still bad.I have not ever seen anything militant in rural SE Alabama/SW Georgia/North Florida. What do you mean by militant?

bogdog
01-24-2014, 11:41 AM
I have not ever seen anything militant in rural SE Alabama/SW Georgia/North Florida. What do you mean by militant?
See post #36.

Osborne Russell
01-24-2014, 01:19 PM
Pretty well. Separation of church and state or something. "Christian school" is an oxymoron in the US system, yes?

Christian public school is. Government support of religion is verboten.

All private schools and parents home-schooling their own children must meet minimum curriculum standards, in theory. In reality, many schools are crumbling and many of the teachers have been let go. There's no money for enforcement of standards inside the public schools, let alone outside them.

Osborne Russell
01-24-2014, 01:27 PM
I think that it is too easy to judge the people of Sabine Parish based on something like this without putting it into the proper context.

Fooey. Abraham Lincoln walked to town and back to borrow books from a lawyer. The people of Sabine Parish have books, radio, television and the internet. The First Amendment is going on two and a half centuries old.

They are ignorant and bigoted because they are in thrall to an evil ideology.

jpb54
01-24-2014, 01:36 PM
When we have states with super-majority conservative legislatures we are going to see places like Sabine Parish. North Carolina has more that a few school districts who trample on the Constitution. Even more insidious are the residents who pass on "advice" to those they think may oppose the the schools positions whether they are parents or teachers. Just an example is Mississippi's law of last year.

SENATE BILL NO. 2633


1 AN ACT TO ENACT THE "MISSISSIPPI STUDENT RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES
2 ACT OF 2013"; TO PROVIDE FOR VOLUNTARY STUDENT EXPRESSION OF
3 RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC
4 SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL ALLOW RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN CLASS
5 ASSIGNMENTS; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL PROVIDE
6 STUDENTS WITH THE FREEDOM TO ORGANIZE RELIGIOUS GROUPS AND
7 ACTIVITIES; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL PROVIDE
8 A LIMITED PUBLIC FORUM FOR STUDENT SPEAKERS AT NONGRADUATION AND
9 GRADUATION EVENTS; TO PROVIDE A MODEL POLICY FOR VOLUNTARY
10 RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES.



If they get this passed they will hit a brick when the Muslims give the graduation address and start passing out Qrans . They truly believe that separation of church and state doesn't include Christians .

bogdog
01-24-2014, 01:56 PM
If they get this passed they will hit a brick when the Muslims give the graduation address and start passing out Qrans . They truly believe that separation of church and state doesn't include Christians .Already passed and signed into law.

Peerie Maa
01-24-2014, 02:03 PM
All private schools and parents home-schooling their own children must meet minimum curriculum standards, in theory. In reality, many schools are crumbling and many of the teachers have been let go. There's no money for enforcement of standards inside the public schools, let alone outside them.

That is sad. Investing in tomorrows technicians engineers and innovators is one of the most important things a state can do.

pefjr
01-24-2014, 02:03 PM
See post #36.This is what you call militant? .....and rural?

jpb54
01-24-2014, 03:15 PM
Already passed and signed into law.

Oh, crap . Well ,I am sure it will see it's day in court and not survive . Kind of like Jim Crow laws if you ask me .

pefjr
01-24-2014, 04:08 PM
Oh, crap . Well ,I am sure it will see it's day in court and not survive . Kind of like Jim Crow laws if you ask me .Why would it not survive? I see nothing in it that the 1st amendment doesn't already guarantee.

jpb54
01-24-2014, 05:06 PM
Separation of church and state . Christians don't understand ''all religions '' or the concept that their religion is not the only religion .

hokiefan
01-24-2014, 05:21 PM
Separation of church and state . Christians don't understand ''all religions '' or the concept that their religion is not the only religion .

That statement should read some Christians...

Keith Wilson
01-24-2014, 05:23 PM
Christians don't understand ''all religions '' or the concept that their religion is not the only religion .This incident shows us that some isolated ignorant very conservative Christians from rural Louisiana don't understand that. Some Christians understand it very well. As the thread title says, 'it's stuff like this that gives Christians a bad rep...'

pefjr
01-24-2014, 05:24 PM
Separation of church and state . Christians don't understand ''all religions '' or the concept that their religion is not the only religion .Separation of Church and State does not mean your freedom of expression ends at the property line of the County Schools, however please advise Congress of your concern. 396-9.
Christians don't understand ROFL...Your broad brush insults a lot of christians. I think they understand perfectly well, as they are always trying to convert the non-christians. Just because one is from Mississippi, or one is a christian, or both, does not mean they are stupid. The one that thinks so, has already won that prize.

PeterSibley
01-24-2014, 05:38 PM
That statement should read some Christians...

A lot of Christians .

elf
01-24-2014, 05:46 PM
Not just christians.

Keith Wilson
01-24-2014, 06:04 PM
Separation of Church and State does not mean your freedom of expression ends at the property line of the County Schools, If you are a teacher in a public school, to some extent it does. You absolutely cannot proselytize to your students while at work. If you don't like it, you're free to get another job.

Chip-skiff
01-24-2014, 07:13 PM
If I was paying taxes for public instruction in science and my kids were being indoctrinated with superstitious nonsense, I would be very upset.

pefjr
01-24-2014, 07:14 PM
If you are a teacher in a public school, to some extent it does. You absolutely cannot proselytize to your students while at work. If you don't like it, you're free to get another job.Of Course, maybe not after work either.

TXdoug
01-24-2014, 10:18 PM
One need not read real news to feel the frustration just flip thru the channels.

who has not seen this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfBCiPfqFeY

or this maggot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjqEAEIGO0E

It aint hard to get a bad rep.