Epoxy Choice

[Fr. Pat]

I have had such good advise in this forum I am looking for some more. I am building a 17 ft. Dingy. The hull will be Atlantic White Cedar. It will be covered with fiberglass and epoxy. I am interested in any thoughts on which epoxy is best in this applicaton. I have used West on some things with good results but recently I met a guy who builds down in the Baltimore area who said that West does not bond to cedar as well as some others. It will be used for the hull as well as assembly and filleting joints etc. All the normal parts of the boat bulding process. (using the appropriate fillers as necessary.) I am new to this so please do not spend time explaining technical details as your time will probably be wasted!! I am looking for just some simple thougths.

Thanks for the help in the past and i look forward to hearing from others with more experience than I.

PAX
PAT

[Fr. Pat]

I have had such good advise in this forum I am looking for some more. I am building a 17 ft. Dingy. The hull will be Atlantic White Cedar. It will be covered with fiberglass and epoxy. I am interested in any thoughts on which epoxy is best in this applicaton. I have used West on some things with good results but recently I met a guy who builds down in the Baltimore area who said that West does not bond to cedar as well as some others. It will be used for the hull as well as assembly and filleting joints etc. All the normal parts of the boat bulding process. (using the appropriate fillers as necessary.) I am new to this so please do not spend time explaining technical details as your time will probably be wasted!! I am looking for just some simple thougths.

Thanks for the help in the past and i look forward to hearing from others with more experience than I.

PAX
PAT

[Fr. Pat]

I have had such good advise in this forum I am looking for some more. I am building a 17 ft. Dingy. The hull will be Atlantic White Cedar. It will be covered with fiberglass and epoxy. I am interested in any thoughts on which epoxy is best in this applicaton. I have used West on some things with good results but recently I met a guy who builds down in the Baltimore area who said that West does not bond to cedar as well as some others. It will be used for the hull as well as assembly and filleting joints etc. All the normal parts of the boat bulding process. (using the appropriate fillers as necessary.) I am new to this so please do not spend time explaining technical details as your time will probably be wasted!! I am looking for just some simple thougths.

Thanks for the help in the past and i look forward to hearing from others with more experience than I.

PAX
PAT

[Tom Dugan]

I think we could use a little more info, Pat. Like what is the building technique? I could assume it's strip-built, since you're covering with cloth & spooge. I'm certainly hoping it's not lapstrake!

What's the design? And is a boat that's as big as 17 feet still allowed to be called a dinghy?

I personally have used MAS and (very little) System 3. No WEST, but those that have will want more info on the boat too.

-T

[Tom Dugan]

I think we could use a little more info, Pat. Like what is the building technique? I could assume it's strip-built, since you're covering with cloth & spooge. I'm certainly hoping it's not lapstrake!

What's the design? And is a boat that's as big as 17 feet still allowed to be called a dinghy?

I personally have used MAS and (very little) System 3. No WEST, but those that have will want more info on the boat too.

-T

[Tom Dugan]

I think we could use a little more info, Pat. Like what is the building technique? I could assume it's strip-built, since you're covering with cloth & spooge. I'm certainly hoping it's not lapstrake!

What's the design? And is a boat that's as big as 17 feet still allowed to be called a dinghy?

I personally have used MAS and (very little) System 3. No WEST, but those that have will want more info on the boat too.

-T

[N. Scheuer]

I like WEST stuff, Fr. Pat. I've experienced a slight bit of adhesion using Polyester resin on cedar, but as Epoxy is the better of the two for adhesion, Epoxy/Cedar has never been questioned.

Gougeon Bros. (manufacturer of WEST System products) is especially good at technical help over the phone and also the net. I'd give them a jingle to see what they have to say; sorta get both sides, etc. I've found them to be very professional and helpful over the phone in the past. Customer service counts for a lot with me.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

I like WEST stuff, Fr. Pat. I've experienced a slight bit of adhesion using Polyester resin on cedar, but as Epoxy is the better of the two for adhesion, Epoxy/Cedar has never been questioned.

Gougeon Bros. (manufacturer of WEST System products) is especially good at technical help over the phone and also the net. I'd give them a jingle to see what they have to say; sorta get both sides, etc. I've found them to be very professional and helpful over the phone in the past. Customer service counts for a lot with me.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

I like WEST stuff, Fr. Pat. I've experienced a slight bit of adhesion using Polyester resin on cedar, but as Epoxy is the better of the two for adhesion, Epoxy/Cedar has never been questioned.

Gougeon Bros. (manufacturer of WEST System products) is especially good at technical help over the phone and also the net. I'd give them a jingle to see what they have to say; sorta get both sides, etc. I've found them to be very professional and helpful over the phone in the past. Customer service counts for a lot with me.

Moby Nick

[NormMessinger]

When you ask The Forum what kind of epoxy to use you are going to get, um lessee, there are a dozen different brands, you're going to get a dozen different answers. (Maybe more if you get answers to questions you didn't ask. ;) )

I prefer the main stream brands, WEST, System Three, MAS, and of the three System Three is a little less expensive. WEST may be less flexible, MAS more so, if what I've read here and there is correct. RAKA (Is it?) is considerably cheeper and some swear by it. I'm leary since I don't know what corners they cut to justify the price.

Pick one and don't worry about adhesion. They are all made for what you want to do.

Atlantic White Cedar is not resenous at all is it? I shouldn't think any wipe down would be required. I'm surprised redcedar does but Mike (custom skiffs) has a lot more experience than I do.

Best wishes to you.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

When you ask The Forum what kind of epoxy to use you are going to get, um lessee, there are a dozen different brands, you're going to get a dozen different answers. (Maybe more if you get answers to questions you didn't ask. ;) )

I prefer the main stream brands, WEST, System Three, MAS, and of the three System Three is a little less expensive. WEST may be less flexible, MAS more so, if what I've read here and there is correct. RAKA (Is it?) is considerably cheeper and some swear by it. I'm leary since I don't know what corners they cut to justify the price.

Pick one and don't worry about adhesion. They are all made for what you want to do.

Atlantic White Cedar is not resenous at all is it? I shouldn't think any wipe down would be required. I'm surprised redcedar does but Mike (custom skiffs) has a lot more experience than I do.

Best wishes to you.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

When you ask The Forum what kind of epoxy to use you are going to get, um lessee, there are a dozen different brands, you're going to get a dozen different answers. (Maybe more if you get answers to questions you didn't ask. ;) )

I prefer the main stream brands, WEST, System Three, MAS, and of the three System Three is a little less expensive. WEST may be less flexible, MAS more so, if what I've read here and there is correct. RAKA (Is it?) is considerably cheeper and some swear by it. I'm leary since I don't know what corners they cut to justify the price.

Pick one and don't worry about adhesion. They are all made for what you want to do.

Atlantic White Cedar is not resenous at all is it? I shouldn't think any wipe down would be required. I'm surprised redcedar does but Mike (custom skiffs) has a lot more experience than I do.

Best wishes to you.

--Norm

[addison]

RAKA is certainly less expensive than the other brands....but after using it on 3 or 4 boats I have started questioning why others want to use anything else.

Much of the info I read about other brands of epoxy tell you to be careful of blush when you do multiple coats of epoxy. The RAKA 127/350 combo doesn't blush! ever...

[addison]

RAKA is certainly less expensive than the other brands....but after using it on 3 or 4 boats I have started questioning why others want to use anything else.

Much of the info I read about other brands of epoxy tell you to be careful of blush when you do multiple coats of epoxy. The RAKA 127/350 combo doesn't blush! ever...

[addison]

RAKA is certainly less expensive than the other brands....but after using it on 3 or 4 boats I have started questioning why others want to use anything else.

Much of the info I read about other brands of epoxy tell you to be careful of blush when you do multiple coats of epoxy. The RAKA 127/350 combo doesn't blush! ever...

[Will]

Thanks BPT ,that's an interesting site .

[ 02-20-2002, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Will ]

[Will]

Thanks BPT ,that's an interesting site .

[ 02-20-2002, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Will ]

[Will]

Thanks BPT ,that's an interesting site .

[ 02-20-2002, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Will ]

[Will]

Is anyone else reading the oneocean link ? It's the best comparative data on the available epoxies I've seen . The manufacturors certianly aren't going to offer this .

Here's one interesting piece , does this info appear in the instructions of the named brands ?

"Thinner epoxies are superb at saturating the cloth and wood quickly and completely but this is where the excitement stops. When the epoxy cures, you will spend more time on filling the weave of the fabric until the cloth is completely buried. The thin epoxy is not very thixotropic and will tend to sag, drip and run and you will need to coat the hull with 5 to 6 layers (2-3 more than with thick epoxies). In general, thin epoxies such as the MAS or Raka will require a couple additional days before the fiberglass is covered to your satisfaction.
All is not lost however, because you can 'prepromote' the epoxy to increase its viscosity for filling the fiberglass weave. Prepromoting involves mixing a very small portion of the premeasured hardener (5-15%) with the total amount of resin. The mixture will thicken a bit after a while but cannot harden because of the 'wrong' proportion of the reactants. When you want to use the batch, blend in the rest of the hardener. The mix will now have the proper ratio of resin to hardener and will proceed to set, as if nothing happened. The only thing you will notice is the increased viscosity, now perfect for filler coats."

I emailed about this and actually there's an accelerated cure rate as well .

[Will]

Is anyone else reading the oneocean link ? It's the best comparative data on the available epoxies I've seen . The manufacturors certianly aren't going to offer this .

Here's one interesting piece , does this info appear in the instructions of the named brands ?

"Thinner epoxies are superb at saturating the cloth and wood quickly and completely but this is where the excitement stops. When the epoxy cures, you will spend more time on filling the weave of the fabric until the cloth is completely buried. The thin epoxy is not very thixotropic and will tend to sag, drip and run and you will need to coat the hull with 5 to 6 layers (2-3 more than with thick epoxies). In general, thin epoxies such as the MAS or Raka will require a couple additional days before the fiberglass is covered to your satisfaction.
All is not lost however, because you can 'prepromote' the epoxy to increase its viscosity for filling the fiberglass weave. Prepromoting involves mixing a very small portion of the premeasured hardener (5-15%) with the total amount of resin. The mixture will thicken a bit after a while but cannot harden because of the 'wrong' proportion of the reactants. When you want to use the batch, blend in the rest of the hardener. The mix will now have the proper ratio of resin to hardener and will proceed to set, as if nothing happened. The only thing you will notice is the increased viscosity, now perfect for filler coats."

I emailed about this and actually there's an accelerated cure rate as well .

[Will]

Is anyone else reading the oneocean link ? It's the best comparative data on the available epoxies I've seen . The manufacturors certianly aren't going to offer this .

Here's one interesting piece , does this info appear in the instructions of the named brands ?

"Thinner epoxies are superb at saturating the cloth and wood quickly and completely but this is where the excitement stops. When the epoxy cures, you will spend more time on filling the weave of the fabric until the cloth is completely buried. The thin epoxy is not very thixotropic and will tend to sag, drip and run and you will need to coat the hull with 5 to 6 layers (2-3 more than with thick epoxies). In general, thin epoxies such as the MAS or Raka will require a couple additional days before the fiberglass is covered to your satisfaction.
All is not lost however, because you can 'prepromote' the epoxy to increase its viscosity for filling the fiberglass weave. Prepromoting involves mixing a very small portion of the premeasured hardener (5-15%) with the total amount of resin. The mixture will thicken a bit after a while but cannot harden because of the 'wrong' proportion of the reactants. When you want to use the batch, blend in the rest of the hardener. The mix will now have the proper ratio of resin to hardener and will proceed to set, as if nothing happened. The only thing you will notice is the increased viscosity, now perfect for filler coats."

I emailed about this and actually there's an accelerated cure rate as well .

[Woodscrew]

I have used three different brands within the last year. I purchased MAS, System Three, and West System. The MAS and System Three mixes up using a 2:1 mix ratio. That was nice as I did not need mini-pumps and the jugs traveled well from job to job. The West System mixes up 5:1, pumps are required and they do not travel well attached to the cans. It is good around the shop and their pumps were the best, nice action.
I found the technical data and publications from West System to be the best information available to me at the time.
The fillers from System Three have the best price.
I thought the MAS FLAG resin with Medium hardener was the most versitile and served many applications from filletts to clear coating.
I had the same great results with all of the products and found price and availability to be the determining factor in my purchases. I purchased this product at my local harware store, Jamestown Distributors. I am sure you can find them on-line.

[Woodscrew]

I have used three different brands within the last year. I purchased MAS, System Three, and West System. The MAS and System Three mixes up using a 2:1 mix ratio. That was nice as I did not need mini-pumps and the jugs traveled well from job to job. The West System mixes up 5:1, pumps are required and they do not travel well attached to the cans. It is good around the shop and their pumps were the best, nice action.
I found the technical data and publications from West System to be the best information available to me at the time.
The fillers from System Three have the best price.
I thought the MAS FLAG resin with Medium hardener was the most versitile and served many applications from filletts to clear coating.
I had the same great results with all of the products and found price and availability to be the determining factor in my purchases. I purchased this product at my local harware store, Jamestown Distributors. I am sure you can find them on-line.

[Woodscrew]

I have used three different brands within the last year. I purchased MAS, System Three, and West System. The MAS and System Three mixes up using a 2:1 mix ratio. That was nice as I did not need mini-pumps and the jugs traveled well from job to job. The West System mixes up 5:1, pumps are required and they do not travel well attached to the cans. It is good around the shop and their pumps were the best, nice action.
I found the technical data and publications from West System to be the best information available to me at the time.
The fillers from System Three have the best price.
I thought the MAS FLAG resin with Medium hardener was the most versitile and served many applications from filletts to clear coating.
I had the same great results with all of the products and found price and availability to be the determining factor in my purchases. I purchased this product at my local harware store, Jamestown Distributors. I am sure you can find them on-line.

[Carlsboats]

I have tried three leading brands over a period of more years than I care to admit, and have now settled on the Systems 3 line. What I especially like about it: viscosity (not too thick); temperature range (I sometimes have to use it when it is pretty cool in the shop); and catalyst variability (fast, medium, and slow will give you flexibility in open time, and you can intermix the catalysts if you want). Also, Systems 3 has been very good in rsponding to questions from me (as has West). Have not compared relative prices, and don't claim Systems 3 is "better" in any technical sense-- just that it has turned out to be user-friendly for me.
For another opinion, you might ask the guys at the WoodenBoat school what they like. They have had a ton of experience with epoxies, and while they probably can't indulge in product endorsements, they might pass on whatever objective info. they have. Last time I asked one of the people there for his pesonal advice, he said, "Try Systems 3." So I did. Carlsboats

[Carlsboats]

I have tried three leading brands over a period of more years than I care to admit, and have now settled on the Systems 3 line. What I especially like about it: viscosity (not too thick); temperature range (I sometimes have to use it when it is pretty cool in the shop); and catalyst variability (fast, medium, and slow will give you flexibility in open time, and you can intermix the catalysts if you want). Also, Systems 3 has been very good in rsponding to questions from me (as has West). Have not compared relative prices, and don't claim Systems 3 is "better" in any technical sense-- just that it has turned out to be user-friendly for me.
For another opinion, you might ask the guys at the WoodenBoat school what they like. They have had a ton of experience with epoxies, and while they probably can't indulge in product endorsements, they might pass on whatever objective info. they have. Last time I asked one of the people there for his pesonal advice, he said, "Try Systems 3." So I did. Carlsboats

[Carlsboats]

I have tried three leading brands over a period of more years than I care to admit, and have now settled on the Systems 3 line. What I especially like about it: viscosity (not too thick); temperature range (I sometimes have to use it when it is pretty cool in the shop); and catalyst variability (fast, medium, and slow will give you flexibility in open time, and you can intermix the catalysts if you want). Also, Systems 3 has been very good in rsponding to questions from me (as has West). Have not compared relative prices, and don't claim Systems 3 is "better" in any technical sense-- just that it has turned out to be user-friendly for me.
For another opinion, you might ask the guys at the WoodenBoat school what they like. They have had a ton of experience with epoxies, and while they probably can't indulge in product endorsements, they might pass on whatever objective info. they have. Last time I asked one of the people there for his pesonal advice, he said, "Try Systems 3." So I did. Carlsboats

[stan v]

Well, here's another one for you. FGCI, Fiberglass Coatings Inc. I've used West for years, gallon at a time. On my current project I switched over to FGCI, 3/1 epoxy, and believe it to be near as I can tell the same quality. Furthermore, the service is outstanding. Costs about a third of West. Which after 20 gallons is a considerable savings. The larger the quantity, the more discount. They're in Florida, and have a website.
www.fgci.com (http://www.fgci.com)

By the way, I've ordered cloth, cups, containers, gloves, rollers, trays, etc., all on line without a hitch and delivered on time.

[stan v]

Well, here's another one for you. FGCI, Fiberglass Coatings Inc. I've used West for years, gallon at a time. On my current project I switched over to FGCI, 3/1 epoxy, and believe it to be near as I can tell the same quality. Furthermore, the service is outstanding. Costs about a third of West. Which after 20 gallons is a considerable savings. The larger the quantity, the more discount. They're in Florida, and have a website.
www.fgci.com (http://www.fgci.com)

By the way, I've ordered cloth, cups, containers, gloves, rollers, trays, etc., all on line without a hitch and delivered on time.

[stan v]

Well, here's another one for you. FGCI, Fiberglass Coatings Inc. I've used West for years, gallon at a time. On my current project I switched over to FGCI, 3/1 epoxy, and believe it to be near as I can tell the same quality. Furthermore, the service is outstanding. Costs about a third of West. Which after 20 gallons is a considerable savings. The larger the quantity, the more discount. They're in Florida, and have a website.
www.fgci.com (http://www.fgci.com)

By the way, I've ordered cloth, cups, containers, gloves, rollers, trays, etc., all on line without a hitch and delivered on time.