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Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 10:34 AM
Why not do away with Congress and operate by Presidential Dictatorship?


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Tuesday he would not wait for Congress to pass legislation to advance his policy priorities this year and said he was "getting close" to finishing a review of U.S. surveillance practices - to be unveiled on Friday.Obama, speaking to reporters during a cabinet meeting at the White House, foreshadowed his upcoming State of the Union address and what appeared to be a new messaging strategy by emphasizing his ability to take executive actions without approval from lawmakers.
"We are not just going to be waiting for legislation in order to make sure that we're providing Americans the kind of help that they need," he said.
"I've got a pen, and I've got a phone. And I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions ... and I've got a phone that allows me to convene Americans from every walk of life," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-won-39-t-wait-legislation-advance-2014-162325560.html

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 10:40 AM
No.

I am wondering why bother have a 'Congress' precisely because of those powers.

Congress is therefore redundant since the President 'does not have to wait on Congress to pass legislation'.

Why is there a need for Congress if the President does not have to wait on it and ignores it?

Mrleft8
01-15-2014, 10:43 AM
Executive Orders Issued by President George W. Bush
Date Executive Order
2009
Jan. 16 Executive Order: Granting Reciprocity on Excepted Service and Federal Contractor Employee Fitness and Reinvestigating Individuals in Positions of Public Trust
Jan. 9 Executive Order: Strengthening Laboratory Biosecurity in the United States
Jan. 9 Executive Order: Providing An Order of Succession Within the Department of Transportation
Jan. 9 Executive Order: Amending the Order of Succession Within the Department of Agriculture
2008
Dec. 18 Executive Order: Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay
Dec. 12 Executive Order: Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Friday, December 26, 2008
Dec. 9 Executive Order: Providing An Order of Succession Within the Department of Justice
Dec. 1 Executive Order: Exclusions from the Federal Labor-Management Relations Program
Nov. 18 Executive Order: Transformation of the National Air Transportation System
Nov. 18 Executive Order: Amendments to Executive Order 9397 Relating to Federal Agency Use of Social Security Numbers
Oct. 31 Executive Order: Settlement of Claims Against Libya
Oct. 9 Executive Order: Facilitation of a Presidential Transition
Oct. 7 Executive Order: Further Amendments to Executive Orders 12139 and 12949 in Light of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008
Sept. 26 Executive Order: To Authorize Certain Noncompetitive Appointments in the Civil Service for Spouses of Certain Members of the Armed Forces
Sept. 26 Executive Order: Amendments to Executive Order 12962
Sept. 11 Executive Order: Executive Branch Responsibilities with Respect to Orders of Succession
Aug. 28 Executive Order: Further Amendments to Executive Order 13285, President's Council on Service and Civic Participation
Jul. 25 Executive Order: Blocking Property of Additional Persons Undermining Democratic Processes or Institutions in Zimbabwe
Jul. 24 Executive Order: 2008 Amendments to the Manual for Courts Martial, United States
Jun. 30 Executive Order: Reforming Processes Related to Suitability for Government Employment, Fitness for Contractor Employees, and Eligibility for Access to Classified National Security Information
Jun. 26 Executive Order: Continuing Certain Restrictions with Respect to North Korea and North Korean Nationals
Jun. 9 Executive Order: Amending Executive Order 12989, as Amended
May 1 Executive Order: Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Burma
Apr. 18 Executive Order: Amending Executive Orders 13389 and 13390
Feb. 29 Executive Order: President's Intelligence Advisory Board and Intelligence Oversight Board
Feb. 15 Executive Order: Providing An Order of Succession Within the Department of Health and Human Services
Feb. 13 Executive Order: Blocking Property of Additional Persons in Connection with the National Emergency with Respect to Syria
Feb. 7 Executive Order: Improving the Coordination and Effectiveness of Youth Programs
Feb. 5 Executive Order: Implementation of the Protocol Additional to the Agreement Between the United States and the International Atomic Energy Agency for the Application of Safeguards in the United States of America
Jan. 29 Executive Order: Protecting American Taxpayers From Government Spending on Wasteful Earmarks
Jan. 23 Executive Order: Further Amendment of Executive Order 11858 Concerning Foreign Investment in the United States
Jan. 22 Executive Order: Establishing the President's Advisory Council on Financial Literacy
Jan. 4 Executive Order: Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay
2007
Dec. 6 Executive Order: Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Monday, December 24, 2007
Nov. 28 Executive Order: Establishing An Emergency Board to Investigate Disputes Between the National Railroad Passenger Corporation and Certain of Its Employees Represented by Certain Labor Organizations
Nov. 19 Executive Order: President Bush Designates The ITER International Fusion Energy Organization As a Public International Organization
Nov. 13 Executive Order: Improving Government Program Performance
Oct. 20 Executive Order: Protection of Striped Bass and Red Drum Fish Populations
Oct. 19 Executive Order: Blocking Property and Prohibiting Certain Transactions Related to Burma
Sept. 28 Executive Order: Continuance of Certain Federal Advisory Committees and Amendments to and Revocation of Other Executive Orders
Sept. 28 Executive Order: Further 2007 Amendments to the Manual for Courts Martial, United States
Sept. 27 Executive Order: Strengthening Adult Education
Sept. 12 Executive Order: Extending Privileges and Immunities to the African Union Mission to the United States
Aug. 17 Executive Order: Facilitation of Hunting Heritage and Wildlife Conservation
Aug. 13 Executive Order: Amending the Order of Succession in the Department of Homeland Security
Aug. 2 Executive Order: Blocking Property of Persons Undermining the Sovereignty of Lebanon or Its Democratic Processes and Institutions
Jul. 20 Executive Order: Interpretation of the Geneva Conventions Common Article 3 as Applied to a Program of Detention and Interrogation Operated by the Central Intelligence Agency
Jul. 18 Executive Order: Establishing An Interagency Working Group on Import Safety
Jul. 17 Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq
Jun. 29 Executive Order: Further Amending Executive Order 13381, as Amended, to Extend Its Duration by One Year
Jun. 29 Executive Order: Waiver Under the Trade Act of 1974 with Respect to Turkmenistan
Jun. 20 Executive Order: Expanding Approved Stem Cell Lines in Ethically Responsible Ways
May 17 Executive Order: National Security Professional Development
May 16 Executive Order: Protecting American Taxpayers From Payment of Contingency Fees
May 14 Fact Sheet: Twenty in Ten: Strengthening Energy Security and Addressing Climate Change
May 14 Executive Order: Cooperation Among Agencies in Protecting the Environment with Respect to Greenhouse Gas Emissions From Motor Vehicles, Nonroad Vehicles, and Nonroad Engines
May 9 Executive Order: Establishment of Temporary Organization to Facilitate United States Government Assistance for Transition in Iraq
Apr. 18 Executive Order: 2007 Amendments to the Manual for Courts-Martial, United States
Apr. 4 Executive Order: Establishing An Emergency Board to Investigate a Dispute Between Metro-North Railroad and Its Maintenance of Way Employees Represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Apr. 2 Executive Order: Renaming a National Forest in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico
Mar. 7 Executive Order: Extending Privileges and Immunities to the Permanent Observer Mission of the Holy See to the United Nations
Mar. 6 Executive Order: Establishing a Commission on Care for America's Returning Wounded Warriors and a Task Force on Returning Global War on Terror Heroes
Feb. 14 Executive Order Trial of Alien Unlawful Enemy Combatants by Military Commission
Jan. 26 Executive Order: Further Amendment to Executive Order 13285, Relating to the President's Council on Service and Civic Participation
Jan. 24 Executive Order: Strengthening Federal Environmental, Energy, and Transportation Management
Jan. 18 Executive Order: Further Amendment to Executive O

delecta
01-15-2014, 10:48 AM
Boom, might as well close this thread.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 10:50 AM
Executive Orders Issued by President George W. Bush

Thank you for adding further evidence to support my query.

Congress is therefore redundant since the President 'does not have to wait on Congress to pass legislation'.

Why is there a need for Congress if the President does not have to wait on it and ignores it?



PS : Why do you and others always seem to relate back and equate President Obama does to Mr Bush (generally accepted as not the best - being diplomatic here - President)?
What a low standard to judge upon.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 10:59 AM
Boom, might as well close this thread.

Really ?

Bush the scapegoat for the Democrats on here issued some 66 Executive orders (according to Mrleft8's post #4, although I think there are more).

While President Obama has issued some 166 Executive orders so far and intends to issue many more.


Administration of Barack Obama (2009-Present)Disposition of Executive orders signed by President Barack Obama


2009 (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2009-obama.html) - E.O. 13489 - E.O. 13527 (39 Executive orders issued)
2010 (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2010.html) - E.O. 13528 - E.O. 13562 (35 Executive orders issued)
2011 (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2011.html) - E.O. 13563 - E.O. 13596 (34 Executive orders issued)
2012 (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2012.html) - E.O. 13597 - E.O. 13635 (39 Executive orders issued)
2013 (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/2013.html) - E.O. 13636 - E.O. 13654 (19 Executive orders issued)
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama.html


And your point of your post is/was? :confused:

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 11:04 AM
Where were you raised? It seems likely that it wasn't in the US, because your knowledge of US constitutional issues seems to be... well.... limited.

The constitution enumerates separate powers for the President, and for Congress.... and EACH branch of the government has designated powers. Congress makes laws.... the executive branch makes the rules and regulations which carry out those laws. No, the President doesn't make laws... and neither can he ignore laws... but he can interpret the meaning of a law in order to 'see that it is faithfully executed', and the third branch of government (the Judicial branch) arbitrates whether he has correctly or incorrectly applied the law.

EDITED TO ADD: the list of Bush executive orders wasn't meant to stand as any sort of example... it simply reinforces the point that executive orders are a normal and constitutional power and obligation of ANY President.


"We are not just going to be waiting for legislation" President Obama.


So why bother with Congress issued legislation?

Gerarddm
01-15-2014, 11:18 AM
O please, stop. Obama has more of them than Dubya because the Party of No forced his hand. If Congress actually DID SOMETHING you would see the number of executive orders drop.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 11:24 AM
Post #4 was not a complete listing.... and regardless, Bush got a lot more cooperation from Congress than Obama has, which explains the need for more executive orders.

Here we have a classic example of twisting and spinning. Once again, ANY president has the power to issue executive orders. If Obama can't get the legislation he believes is needed, then he can lawfully and legally try to accomplish the same end with an executive order, which is completely within his constitutional power, as president, to do.

As much as you try to imply (unsuccessfully) that Obama is trying to be a 'dictator', you have failed miserably.


So why bother with Congress issued legislation?

It does appear that abuse of the Executive orders to circumvent Congress is tantamount to being dictatorial.

Canoez
01-15-2014, 11:31 AM
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

Going on for a long time at varying levels.
(http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php)

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 11:32 AM
Want a good example? The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) is short, on commisioners. The commisioners are nominated by the President, and must be affirmed by the Senate, according to the constitutional 'advice and consent' clause. However, the Senate is blocking nearly any and all nominations by the President.... not because they object to the nominees, mind you.... they're doing it just because they can.

Well, THAT is within their power, according to the Constitution.

There's only one problem: if the NLRB doesn't have enough commissioners to constitute a quorum, it can't do it's work. The NLRB was created by an act of Congress.... and it has not been dissolved by Congress... so it has legal obligations and work that must be done... but it can't, without a quorum.

So, the President does the only thing he CAN do: he makes a recess appointment. This ability was created, in the Constitution, to insure that critical appointments could be made if Congress was unable to confirm a nominee, because it was out of session, and couldn't be recalled. The recess appointment makes the work of the NLRB possible to continue.....

...but the Senate decides to 'fool' the system by remaining 'in session' with a daily gavel to order, in which the senate announces that it won't be doing any work... and then adjourns. It then claims tht the recess appointment is invalid because the senate was 'technically' in session, even though there wasn't a quorum to make a vote on a confirmation...

As can be seen, both sides play the game.

In tihs particular case, SCOTUS heard oral arguments this week. Depending on how they rule, the recess appointment may be a thing of the past... and congress can effectively shut down federal agencies simply by denying appointments. Lovely system we have.


I do not believe that any system is perfect. They all have shortcomings.

ccmanuals
01-15-2014, 11:33 AM
Norm, I'm amazed you lasted this long on this thread. :)

hokiefan
01-15-2014, 11:40 AM
The executive branch is charged with enforcing existing laws. Executive orders can be used to modifiy how an existing law is enforced. They cannot be used to create new laws. So the POTUS has some lattitude to use Executive Orders to modify the enforcement of current laws. He cannot write new laws.

If people think the POTUS oversteps his lattitude, they take it to the Supreme Court. Their job is to interpret the Constitution and decide those disagreements.

Cheers,

Bobby

delecta
01-15-2014, 12:19 PM
Really ?

Bush the scapegoat for the Democrats on here issued some 66 Executive orders (according to Mrleft8's post #4, although I think there are more).

While President Obama has issued some 166 Executive orders so far and intends to issue many more.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/LIST]

And your point of your post is/was? :confused:

That once the liberals here bring up Bush they have decided that the thread doesn't require any response from them and you are an idiot for even mentioning it. Most likely many of the posts will be Bush related and then the thread will be allowed to die a slow death.

bogdog
01-15-2014, 12:23 PM
That once the liberals here bring up Bush they have decided that the thread doesn't require any response from them and you are an idiot for even mentioning it. Most likely many of the posts will be Bush related and then the thread will be allowed to die a slow death.How many EOs do ya think Bush signed? The comparison is more than legitimate.

leikec
01-15-2014, 12:37 PM
We elect our representatives to govern. Sadly, Congress hasn't done much in the last four years, so the president has used the power of his office to move things along. The political reality is such that he has no other option.

Jeff C

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 12:47 PM
How many EOs do ya think Bush signed? The comparison is more than legitimate.


Why do you and others always seem to relate back and equate what President Obama to Mr Bush (generally accepted as not the best - being diplomatic here - President) to justify what President Obama does?
What a low standard to be judged and compared upon.

PS do you know how many Clinton made?
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

ccmanuals
01-15-2014, 12:48 PM
Executive Orders,

Abraham Lincoln 48
Andrew Johnson 79
Ulysses S. Grant 217
Rutherford B. Hayes 92
James Garfield 6
Chester Arthur 96
Grover Cleveland (first term) 113
Benjamin Harrison 143
Grover Cleveland (second term) 140
William McKinley 185
Theodore Roosevelt 1,081
William Howard Taft 724
Woodrow Wilson 1,803
Warren G. Harding 522
Calvin Coolidge 1,203
Herbert Hoover 968
Franklin D. Roosevelt 3,522
Harry S. Truman 907
Dwight D. Eisenhower 484
John F. Kennedy 214
Lyndon B. Johnson 325
Richard Nixon 346
Gerald R. Ford 169
Jimmy Carter 320
Ronald Reagan 381
George H.W. Bush 166
Bill Clinton 364
George W. Bush 291
Barack Obama 167

switters
01-15-2014, 12:54 PM
Comparing the number of EOs is pretty stupid, what matters is what they were trying to do with them. The vast majority of EOs are housekeeping measures that are actually saving the legislative branch considerable time. Other EOs, not so much, here is one of my least favorites in recent history. It is in regards to speeding up permitting for the Keystone pipeline.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-03-28/pdf/2012-7636.pdf

BrianY
01-15-2014, 01:11 PM
I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that executive orders cannot deal with budget items. The Pres cannot order the expenditure of funds for which there is no existing budget. The power to approve budgets lies with Congress.

bogdog
01-15-2014, 01:17 PM
Why do you and others always seem to relate back and equate what President Obama to Mr Bush (generally accepted as not the best - being diplomatic here - President) to justify what President Obama does?
What a low standard to be judged and compared upon.

PS do you know how many Clinton made?
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.phpI believe you brought up EOs in your OP as if Obama was doing something unusual and some how underhanded and undemocratic, obviously he isn't

Nicholas Scheuer
01-15-2014, 01:25 PM
You think an Adolf Hitler would be SO much better, eh Rum Pirate?

stevebaby
01-15-2014, 01:31 PM
Why not do away with tiny Caribbean islands? What have they ever done for the world except given us ordinary rum, even more ordinary pot and violent criminals?
Really, they're just fish reefs with cricket players.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-15-2014, 01:34 PM
Why not do away with Congress and operate by Presidential Dictatorship?

Then we would be like the banana republics that occure on certain small Carribean islands. No matter how dumb Americans are they ain't that dumb.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-15-2014, 01:42 PM
Really ?

Bush the scapegoat for the Democrats on here issued some 66 Executive orders (according to Mrleft8's post #4, although I think there are more).

While President Obama has issued some 166 Executive orders so far and intends to issue many more.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/LIST]

And your point of your post is/was? :confused:

Bush did what Bush did, bunkie. The opposition didn't make him do it. Maybe Cheney did but as you recall he ain't a Democrat either.
Thanks for worrying about our current president issuing further executive oders. Now we don't have to worry about it.
Where is this thread su[pposed to be going, anyway?

ccmanuals
01-15-2014, 01:51 PM
Why not do away with tiny Caribbean islands? What have they ever done for the world except given us ordinary rum, even more ordinary pot and violent criminals?
Really, they're just fish reefs with cricket players.

Now that's funny. :)

Osborne Russell
01-15-2014, 02:05 PM
No.

I am wondering why bother have a 'Congress' precisely because of those powers.

Congress is therefore redundant since the President 'does not have to wait on Congress to pass legislation'.

Why is there a need for Congress if the President does not have to wait on it and ignores it?

How, exactly, is the President is acting outside the powers already given him by the Constitution and the Congress?

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:12 PM
How, exactly, is the President is acting outside the powers already given him by the Constitution and the Congress?


I have never said that he was.

I was commenting on that with those same powers why is there a need for Congress.

Various helpful explanations were provided if you care to read all the posts.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:13 PM
I believe you brought up EOs in your OP as if Obama was doing something unusual and some how underhanded and undemocratic, obviously he isn't


Read Post #34.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:14 PM
You think an Adolf Hitler would be SO much better, eh Rum Pirate?


I would disagree on that.

Please read Post # 34

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-15-2014, 04:18 PM
I have never said that he was.

I was commenting on that with those same powers why is there a need for Congress.

Various helpful explanations were provided if you care to read all the posts.

The technicalities have already been expalined to you. We are taught this stuff in the 9th grade. it ain't brain surgury.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:19 PM
Why not do away with tiny Caribbean islands? What have they ever done for the world except given us ordinary rum, even more ordinary pot and violent criminals?
Really, they're just fish reefs with cricket players.

Ordinary rum !!?!?!!
Sir, I would suggest that you should wash your mouth out with soap (or worse) for that.


They seemingly provide a necessary conduit for drugs that the US population are avid for.

They provided Alexander Hamilton.

Violent criminals? May think a bit on that one.

As fish reefs they often take the brunt of hurricanes and provide protection for the USA Eastern coast and states.

Cricket players. Well they were good but now have to reestablish themselves.

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:20 PM
Then we would be like the banana republics that occure on certain small Carribean islands. No matter how dumb Americans are they ain't that dumb.

LOL

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-15-2014, 04:21 PM
Read Post #34.
Why?

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:21 PM
Bush did what Bush did, bunkie. The opposition didn't make him do it. Maybe Cheney did but as you recall he ain't a Democrat either.
Thanks for worrying about our current president issuing further executive oders. Now we don't have to worry about it.
Where is this thread su[pposed to be going, anyway?

I know.

However, by asking that, you obviously haven't a clue. :ycool:

Rum_Pirate
01-15-2014, 04:23 PM
TIME FOR A FEW GREAT RUMS to watch the sun going down.

:ycool:

Rum_Pirate
01-16-2014, 07:54 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Rum_Piratehttp://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
(http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4032636#post4032636)As fish reefs they often take the brunt of hurricanes and provide protection for the USA Eastern coast and states.I hardly think so, even taking the entire Caribbean chain of islands.... and by itself, St. Kitts isn't protecting a thing.

It will, howver, plead longingly towards the US, among other nations, when a severe hurricane hits it... and American dollars (none of which are contributed by citizens of St. Kitts) will flow there in the name of humanitarian relief.

Believe what you will and ignore the number of times that Haiti and the Dominican Republic, Cuba have tempered the teeth of hurricanes before they hit the USA.
I never said or inferred that St. Kitts by itself is protecting anything. At 68 square miles in area, it is comparable to a mouse superglued to the road with an eighteen wheeler hammering along.


[QUOTE] . . It (St.Kitts) will, howver, plead longingly towards the US, among other nations, when a severe hurricane hits it... and American dollars (none of which are contributed by citizens of St. Kitts) will flow there in the name of humanitarian relief.

As did the United States of America plead to the EU.

You appear to be somewhat misinformed or under informed in regard to St.Kitts and Nevis not contributing.

St.Kitts & Nevis has a population of +/-55,000 and over 20% under a poverty level of US$2,715.00/per annum.

I suspect that you are unaware of the extent of funds and donations that have been made by the citizens of St.Kitts and Nevis to other islands in the Caribbean that have suffered devastation from recent hurricanes.

One can only assist to the limits of ones ability.

You are probably also unaware that it was through the intuitive of one member (a citizen) of the Rotary Club of St.Kitts that St.Kitts and Nevis offered free holidays to survivors and rescue workers of the 9/11 attack in the USA and was the first to do so.
Many people in the USA were able to benefit from this charity.
It was reported on TV in the ticker tape line on CNN among other stations.
It was after this that Hawaii etc jumped on the bandwagon and offered similar.


EG

Generous donation of St. Kitts and Nevis to Cuba for hurricane relief



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qFBGyY-0KLU/SQdBckAzxcI/AAAAAAAABuI/8y-feTVJVbM/s400/PM+-+Cuba+Donation+.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qFBGyY-0KLU/SQdBckAzxcI/AAAAAAAABuI/8y-feTVJVbM/s1600-h/PM+-+Cuba+Donation+.JPG)
St Kitts and Nevis Prime Minister Hon. Dr. Denzil Douglas handed over the check to the Resident Cuban Ambassador Her Excellency Ana Maria Gonzalez.

BASSETERRE, ST. KITTS, OCTOBER 28TH 2008 (CUOPM) – A EC$100,000 cheque for the Government and People of Cuba to assist in the aftermath of Hurricanes Gustav and Ike.

St. Kitts and Nevis has many students attending several universities around Cuba and in handing over the check, Prime Minister Douglas said the contribution is to be used in the recovery and reconstruction work in Cuba after the hurricanes last month.

Ambassador Gonzalez thanked Prime Minister Douglas and the people of the twin-island Federation for the gesture of solidarity on behalf of the Cuban government and people.

She labeled the kind gesture as encouraging and important in the wake of the terrible disasters which damaged over 500,000 homes. Damage was estimated at US$5 billion.
http://cubajournal.blogspot.com/2008/10/generous-donation-of-st-kitts-and-nevis.html

Which is roughly EC$0.50 from every man woman and child in St.Kitts & Nevis.

How much did the USA send?

BTW St.Kitts and Nevis are not alone in asking for international aid in the event of a Hurricane :


International response to Hurricane Katrina

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina


Many countries and international organizations offered the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) relief aid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina_disaster_relief) in the wake of Hurricane Katrina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina).
According to the European Commission, one week after the disaster, on September 4, 2005, the United States officially asked the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) for emergency help, asking for blankets, emergency medical kits, water and 500,000 food rations for victims. Help proposed by EU member states was coordinated through their crisis center. The British presidency of the EU functioned as contact with the USA.

bogdog
01-16-2014, 07:59 AM
Believe what you will and ignore the number of times that Haiti and the Dominican Republic, Cuba have tempered the teeth of hurricanes before they hit the USA.
I never said or inferred that St. Kitts by itself is protecting anything. At 68 square miles in area, it is comparable to a mouse superglued to the road with an eighteen wheeler hammering along.Seems a bit large, maybe a louse on a flea on a mouse.

Rum_Pirate
01-16-2014, 08:34 AM
Seems a bit large, maybe a louse on a flea on a mouse. Even that may be too large.:ycool:

LeeG
01-16-2014, 09:47 AM
TIME FOR A FEW GREAT RUMS to watch the sun going down.

:ycool:

Exactly, conversation with you is like talking with the drunk at a tiki bar. Norman gave a reasonable response and you don't even have the presence of mind to respond on topic. Yr a lazy troll.

Mrleft8
01-16-2014, 09:54 AM
Really ?

Bush the scapegoat for the Democrats on here issued some 66 Executive orders (according to Mrleft8's post #4, although I think there are more).

While President Obama has issued some 166 Executive orders so far and intends to issue many more.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
[/LIST]

And your point of your post is/was? :confused:

The list I posted was for 2 years and 1 month..... The rest of the list was something like 4,000 characters too long to post on the forum.
My point was that the executive order is a tool that the President has to use..... Or abuse. You can do a great amount of good work with an axe.

bobbys
01-16-2014, 11:01 AM
O please, stop. Obama has more of them than Dubya because the Party of No forced his hand. If Congress actually DID SOMETHING you would see the number of executive orders drop.
Brookings study points to Harry Reid and Senate Democrats as source of gridlockBY JOEL GEHRKE (http://washingtonexaminer.com/AUTHOR/JOEL-GEHRKE) | JANUARY 14, 2014 AT 5:51 PM

TOPICS: BELTWAY CONFIDENTIAL (http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/beltway-confidential) CONGRESS (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/congress) SENATE (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/senate) BROOKINGS INSTITUTION (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/brookings-institution) HARRY REID (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/harry-reid) MITCH MCCONNELL (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/mitch-mcconnell)
http://cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz/cache/w200-eadbb3c908a320d8d29a604d5c85d52f.jpg (http://washingtonexaminer.com/gallery/articleid/2542182)Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said last week that the only way to reform...Brookings Institution scholars, inspired by baseball statistics, conducted an analysis of the 113th Congress (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/congress) that points rather directly at the Democrat-controlled Senate (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/senate) as a the locus of congressional gridlock.
The analysis opens with the observation that the House (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/house-of-representatives), contrary to expectation, passed twice as many bills as the Senate in 2013. Why? Because of the Senate committee process.
"When we look at this category, then, we begin to understand where the problem lies: even in the traditionally collegial Senate, 87 percent of bills die in committee," Molly Jackman and Saul Jackman, of Brookings, and Brian Boessenecker write in Politico (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/effective-senators-congressional-moneyball-102146.html#.UtV_Q_RDuTr). "While the filibuster may grab all the headlines, committees are a far deadlier weapon."
Sign Up for the Politics Today newsletter! (http://washingtonexaminer.com/brookings-study-points-to-harry-reid-and-senate-democrats-as-source-of-gridlock/article/2542182?custom_click=rss#)
That observation undermines the conventional wisdom about Republican opposition toPresident Obama (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/barack-obama) causing gridlock. (even taking into account the statement from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/mitch-mcconnell), R-Ky., who said in 2009 that "the single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.")
Filibusters (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/filibuster) are the weapon of last resort for a Senate minority, in terms of procedural maneuvers they can use to block a bill's passage. Committees, on the other hand, are run by the majority party. The chairman's gavel is a hammer that Democrats can use to kill Republican proposals.
One countervailing point against the idea that the committees account for the gridlock: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/harry-reid), D-Nev., has the authority to bypass the committee process and bring legislation to the Senate floor for a vote -- which he does on controversial issues, such as theunemployment (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/unemployment) insurance extension.
That may sound more efficient, but it's also likely to inspire more filibusters from a minority that didn't get the opportunity to shape the bill at the committee level. The drafting process is replaced by floor amendments, which may be substantive or may just be partisan messaging votes. (And, given the likelihood of messaging amendments, Reid routinely refuses to allow most amendments to receive a vote.)
McConnell conceded last week that Republicans have staged show-votes for political reasons, but outlined a proposal to rehabilitate the Senate legislative process by empowering the committees and then have senators spend more time on the floor voting.
"The only way 100 senators will truly be able to have their say, the only way we'll be able to work through our tensions and disputes, is if we're here more," he said during a Jan. 8 floor speech (http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2541799). "It's the best way I know to force an outcome everybody's satisfied with. We got a glimpse of that during last year's budget debate. Somebody who has two dozen amendments at noon starts to prioritize those amendments around midnight. They start talking about what it would take to get unanimous consent. That's how you reach consensus -- by working, and talking, and cooperating, through give and take."l

bobbys
01-16-2014, 11:04 AM
You think an Adolf Hitler would be SO much better, eh Rum Pirate?
Godwin's law in 28.

bobbys
01-16-2014, 11:04 AM
Exactly, conversation with you is like talking with the drunk at a tiki bar. Norman gave a reasonable response and you don't even have the presence of mind to respond on topic. Yr a lazy troll.
Ad hominy.

ccmanuals
01-16-2014, 11:18 AM
Brookings study points to Harry Reid and Senate Democrats as source of gridlockBY JOEL GEHRKE (http://washingtonexaminer.com/AUTHOR/JOEL-GEHRKE) | JANUARY 14, 2014 AT 5:51 PM

TOPICS: BELTWAY CONFIDENTIAL (http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/beltway-confidential) CONGRESS (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/congress) SENATE (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/senate) BROOKINGS INSTITUTION (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/brookings-institution) HARRY REID (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/harry-reid) MITCH MCCONNELL (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/mitch-mcconnell)
http://cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz/cache/w200-eadbb3c908a320d8d29a604d5c85d52f.jpg (http://washingtonexaminer.com/gallery/articleid/2542182)Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said last week that the only way to reform...Brookings Institution scholars, inspired by baseball statistics, conducted an analysis of the 113th Congress (http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/congress) that points rather directly at the Democrat-controlled Senate (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/senate) as a the locus of congressional gridlock.
The analysis opens with the observation that the House (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/house-of-representatives), contrary to expectation, passed twice as many bills as the Senate in 2013. Why? Because of the Senate committee process.
"When we look at this category, then, we begin to understand where the problem lies: even in the traditionally collegial Senate, 87 percent of bills die in committee," Molly Jackman and Saul Jackman, of Brookings, and Brian Boessenecker write in Politico (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/effective-senators-congressional-moneyball-102146.html#.UtV_Q_RDuTr). "While the filibuster may grab all the headlines, committees are a far deadlier weapon."
Sign Up for the Politics Today newsletter! (http://washingtonexaminer.com/brookings-study-points-to-harry-reid-and-senate-democrats-as-source-of-gridlock/article/2542182?custom_click=rss#)
That observation undermines the conventional wisdom about Republican opposition toPresident Obama (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/barack-obama) causing gridlock. (even taking into account the statement from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/mitch-mcconnell), R-Ky., who said in 2009 that "the single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.")
Filibusters (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/filibuster) are the weapon of last resort for a Senate minority, in terms of procedural maneuvers they can use to block a bill's passage. Committees, on the other hand, are run by the majority party. The chairman's gavel is a hammer that Democrats can use to kill Republican proposals.
One countervailing point against the idea that the committees account for the gridlock: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/harry-reid), D-Nev., has the authority to bypass the committee process and bring legislation to the Senate floor for a vote -- which he does on controversial issues, such as theunemployment (http://washingtonexaminer.com/section/unemployment) insurance extension.
That may sound more efficient, but it's also likely to inspire more filibusters from a minority that didn't get the opportunity to shape the bill at the committee level. The drafting process is replaced by floor amendments, which may be substantive or may just be partisan messaging votes. (And, given the likelihood of messaging amendments, Reid routinely refuses to allow most amendments to receive a vote.)
McConnell conceded last week that Republicans have staged show-votes for political reasons, but outlined a proposal to rehabilitate the Senate legislative process by empowering the committees and then have senators spend more time on the floor voting.
"The only way 100 senators will truly be able to have their say, the only way we'll be able to work through our tensions and disputes, is if we're here more," he said during a Jan. 8 floor speech (http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2541799). "It's the best way I know to force an outcome everybody's satisfied with. We got a glimpse of that during last year's budget debate. Somebody who has two dozen amendments at noon starts to prioritize those amendments around midnight. They start talking about what it would take to get unanimous consent. That's how you reach consensus -- by working, and talking, and cooperating, through give and take."l

The House passed 44 bills to kill Obamacare knowing full well that they wouldn't fly in the Senate. You call that legislating? I call it showmanship.

Osborne Russell
01-16-2014, 11:18 AM
I have never said that he was.

I was commenting on that with those same powers why is there a need for Congress.

Various helpful explanations were provided if you care to read all the posts.

Congress and the Executive don't have the same powers.

They might attempt to accomplish the same object, e.g. reducing unemployment, but that doesn't imply they have the same powers. And yes, they can pursue conflicting objects.

Congress does not express the entire sovereignty of the people; no branch does. It's broken down into chunks; that's what separation of powers means.

For Congress and the Executive to be actively working against each other is not new, and not unexpected. It's not a defect in the system.

Executive orders per se are nothing new either. Everything the Executive does is an order. They order someone to do something and if he doesn't do it they order someone else to kick his butt. That's the only thing the Executive can do, and the order has to based on legislation, i.e. Congress' doings. Congress OTOH can't do it at all, except in the very limited context of contempt of Congress.

This is all separation of powers stuff.

As far as I can tell, you're saying the President is exceeding his powers, but how?

Keith Wilson
01-16-2014, 11:26 AM
As far as I can tell, you're saying the President is exceeding his powers, but how?He hasn't actually said that in so many words, and I don't think he really understands the division of power between the president and Congress. He heard something complaining about Obama and executive orders from a right-wing news source, and posted a paraphrase. Very little actual content. This is another attempt to obscure the fact that the radicalized Republican right has been doing their level best to obstruct everything since 2010.

Rum_Pirate
01-16-2014, 01:44 PM
The history of hurricanes demonstrates that more often than not, they will be slightly attenuated by the friction of larger Carribean islands, but regain strength over the gulf of Mexico before hitting the US. Imagine then the strength they would have been if they were not weakened initially.



I'm sure that the residents of St. Kitts are generous and charitable people.... but while I don't know the exact amounts, it is clear that St. Kitts is a beneficiary of US largesse as well... and possibly with a lot more money than what St. Kitts donated to other hurricane-ravaged islands: I will try and find out the extent of that 'largesse'.
St.Kitts & Nevis donated the equivalent of $0.50 to Cuba for hurricane damage (see Post # 44 and the points and questions raised there).


The latest World Bank’s classification of countries by income group is based on 2011 data on GNI per capita, and it is calculated using the World Bank Atlas method (http://data.worldbank.org/about/country-classifications/world-bank-atlas-method).
In this classification, countries are divided in the following income groups:


- Low income: $1,025 or less
- Lower middle income: $1,026 to $4,035
- Upper middle income: $4,036 to $12,475
- High income: $12,476 or more

According to the World Bank, Albania, Angola, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turkmenistan and Tuvalu were the only countries that experienced a change of classification over the previous year. Albania fell from the “upper middle income” group to the “lower middle income” one. Angola climbed into “upper middle income” countries from the “lower middle income” category and so did Turkmenistan and Tuvalu. St. Kitts and Nevis also saw an improvement in 2011, when it entered the top-tier of “high income” countries.

Read more: http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-database/economic-data/12066-countries-by-income-group.html#ixzz2qaWQTf5V


It is also clear that St. Kitts derives a GREAT deal of its economic income from US citizens vacationing there (as well as Canadians, Europeans, and others. What do you expect? :confused: It is a tourist destination, open to all that would like to visit it.



Noble and commendable. I'm highly familiar with Rotary, since my wife has long been an active member, and past president, secretary, and treasurer of our local Rotary club. Rotary has no boundaries, in trying to do good for all. Due kudos to your wife for all her work in and through Rotary. Well done. Y>

wardd
01-16-2014, 02:59 PM
a citizen of one country living in another country complaining about how a third country governs itself

bogdog
01-16-2014, 03:13 PM
Rotarians are evil which is why many Islamic governments and movements have outlawed them. That's why when someone asks me if I'm a Rotarian I say "no I'm a Canadian..."

David G
01-16-2014, 04:24 PM
Ad hominy.

Yes... but Justifiable Hominy. No DA would ever even THINK of bringing charges.

oznabrag
01-16-2014, 06:04 PM
Ad hominy.

Wrong again!

This is merely an observation of complete ineptitude and desperate resort to personal attack, not declaring an argument invalid due to shortcomings of the opponent .

In other words, the opponent's argument is incoherent, imbecilic and irrational. This means that it can not be addressed with conventional, formal logic.

oznabrag
01-16-2014, 06:07 PM
Everyone knows that the Canadian Rotary is especially evil.
They are romored to have ties to Nevis St. Kitt's , after all!

skuthorp
01-16-2014, 06:12 PM
Whats wrong with rotarians? Apart from a surfeit of castor oil of course.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Le_Rhone_9C.jpg/250px-Le_Rhone_9C.jpg

Osborne Russell
01-17-2014, 01:10 PM
He hasn't actually said that in so many words, and I don't think he really understands the division of power between the president and Congress. He heard something complaining about Obama and executive orders from a right-wing news source, and posted a paraphrase. Very little actual content. This is another attempt to obscure the fact that the radicalized Republican right has been doing their level best to obstruct everything since 2010.

OK, but if he's not criticizing the President for exceeding the powers given him by the Constitution, he must be criticizing the Constitution for giving him the powers, right? He's proposing Constitutional amendments here?

Trying to deduce what "Why not do away with Congress" might mean. One doesn't wish to leap to the conclusion that Rum Pirate just repeats what he hears from the Red Propaganda Machine without knowing whether it's true, much less that when he finds out that it's not true, and he's been duped, again, he just clams up and makes like he never said anything. Those would be alarming conclusions to draw without an honest effort to interpret what he said and give him every opportunity to clarify it.

Rum_Pirate
01-17-2014, 01:29 PM
OK, but if he's not criticizing the President for exceeding the powers given him by the Constitution, he must be criticizing the Constitution for giving him the powers, right? He's proposing Constitutional amendments here?

Trying to deduce what "Why not do away with Congress" might mean. One doesn't wish to leap to the conclusion that Rum Pirate just repeats what he hears from the Red Propaganda Machine without knowing whether it's true, much less that when he finds out that it's not true, and he's been duped, again, he just clams up and makes like he never said anything. Those would be alarming conclusions to draw without an honest effort to interpret what he said and give him every opportunity to clarify it.

Norm in #13 and some other forumites gave a great bit of info I wasn't aware of when I posted the OP.

The question you pose is basically the same as I posted in the OP.

Perhaps not to do away with Congress altogether etc, but surely some improvements can be made to avoid the 'shutdown of Govt" etc and keep the Country running smoothly (or smoother) or the benefit of all the population and not the respective parties.