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View Full Version : Cum'mon People! Are you gon'na let yesterday's School Shooting go without comment?



Nicholas Scheuer
01-15-2014, 08:12 AM
Don't know when, but we've definitely crossed the "copycat" line.

Willin'
01-15-2014, 08:43 AM
What's to be said? A kid with a gun kills other kids. Until that moment he was a responsible, well trained and safe gun owner. Then he wasn't any more.

Ian McColgin
01-15-2014, 09:00 AM
Even where child-proof firearms locked storage is not a law, and even though everyone including this kid's parents are experiencing massive trauma, there are parental negligence issues here. I don't believe in simple punishment in a case like this and I know that state social service agencies are often not competent to do the job, but this is a case that cries out for massive and focused family intervention. A child's brain and soul are quite maleable and the job now is to get a functional adult from a seriously damaged child.

bogdog
01-15-2014, 09:06 AM
If the teachers had been armed they could have taken the shooter out...

Willin'
01-15-2014, 09:09 AM
If the teachers had been armed they could have taken the shooter out...

Or maybe hire and arm retired Police Chiefs to maintain order and public safety.

Paul Pless
01-15-2014, 09:10 AM
If the teachers had been armed they could have taken the shooter out...John Masterson didn't need no stinking gun. . .

bogdog
01-15-2014, 09:14 AM
John Masterson didn't need no stinking gun. . .He obviously wouldn't be qualified to teach in Utah.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
01-15-2014, 09:28 AM
Small school shooting: Not many dead.

Nicholas Scheuer
01-15-2014, 10:01 AM
What Ian said: (ala Dr Phil) "Whut Ah'mm gon'na do for all'y'all today is fly all'y'all to the best facility there where they're gon'na use some verbs that will hopefully straighten all''all out."

Bob Adams
01-15-2014, 10:12 AM
Small school shooting: Not many dead.

No, I disagree. It was a shotgun, not one of the evil guns.Waiting for the details, if it turns out the shot gun was a customized military looking one, THEN we will hear the cry. Should have been in a locked cabinet regardless.

bogdog
01-15-2014, 10:34 AM
Some reports say the weapon was a 20 ga. sawed-off shotgun, have no idea if it was a home-cut job or a legal shorter gun.

CK 17
01-15-2014, 10:42 AM
there was a school shooting yesterday? where? I thought I saw something on the news but I thought they were talking about the one from the day before yesterday. . . .

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 11:05 AM
Small school shooting: Not many dead.

proof that we put 'value' on human life... more dead=more valuable sensation... not enough dead=not 'worth' writing about

Paul Pless
01-15-2014, 11:08 AM
proof that we put 'value' on human life... more dead=more valuable sensation... not enough dead=not 'worth' writing abouti thought it was a distance equation. . .

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?159200-does-anyone-care-if-someone-gets-shot-1000-miles-away-from-themselves

Gerarddm
01-15-2014, 11:29 AM
Comment? People have been dropping like flies for aeons in America due to gun violence. There is my comment.


Bah.

stevebaby
01-15-2014, 11:47 AM
proof that we put 'value' on human life... more dead=more valuable sensation... not enough dead=not 'worth' writing aboutHuman life isn't valuable? History's mass murderers would agree.

stevebaby
01-15-2014, 11:48 AM
Comment? People have been dropping like flies for aeons in America due to gun violence. There is my comment.


Bah.Bulldoze them all into mass graves and praise freedom.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
01-15-2014, 12:17 PM
Dog bites man?

hokiefan
01-15-2014, 12:21 PM
proof that we put 'value' on human life... more dead=more valuable sensation... not enough dead=not 'worth' writing about

Of course we do. The insurance companies even have a number for it, as well as numbers for all of the various body parts you can lose.

Cheers,

Bobby

htom
01-15-2014, 12:38 PM
Comment? Yet another failure of gun-free zoning.

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 12:48 PM
Comment? Yet another failure of gun-free zoning.

they know that but they don't want to talk about it... further, they don't want YOU to talk about it

ccmanuals
01-15-2014, 12:51 PM
Seems to me like the whole idea of how we define gun free zones is rather silly.

I could declare my office a gun free zone and it would mean nothing. Now, if the entire country was named a gun free zone I would think that would be significant.

jonboy
01-15-2014, 12:52 PM
guns don't kill people, bullets do...or something

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 12:55 PM
guns don't kill people, bullets do...or something

human violence kills people... I tried on several occations to discuss human nature and was attacked for 'drifting' away from 'inanimate object violence'... which says a lot about the predictability of human nature

Paul Pless
01-15-2014, 01:05 PM
human violence kills people... I tried on several occations to discuss human nature and was attacked for 'drifting' away from 'inanimate object violence'... which says a lot about the predictability of human nature
fart

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-15-2014, 01:52 PM
Someday this string of sorry events will sink in but it hasn't so far.

ahp
01-15-2014, 02:00 PM
If the teachers had been armed they could have taken the shooter out...

If all the other kids were armed that could have taken him out faster. What a wonderful and unrealized market opportunity there is here!

jonboy
01-15-2014, 02:33 PM
If the teachers had been armed they could have taken the shooter out...

If the shooter had been better armed he could have taken the teachers out as well. lets make sure the shooters can do the job properly

Phil Y
01-15-2014, 03:09 PM
Even where child-proof firearms locked storage is not a law, and even though everyone including this kid's parents are experiencing massive trauma, there are parental negligence issues here. I don't believe in simple punishment in a case like this and I know that state social service agencies are often not competent to do the job, but this is a case that cries out for massive and focused family intervention. A child's brain and soul are quite maleable and the job now is to get a functional adult from a seriously damaged child.
Is that what "correctional facilities" are for?

Ian McColgin
01-15-2014, 04:50 PM
PhilY, you may have missed the last thirty years of US history. The rather enlightened correctional system deToqueville had praised a century earlier has been dismanteled at state and federal levels starting with the Reagan revolution. It is now unabashedly a form of sadistic punishment designed to produce career criminals and perverts.

Chip-skiff
01-15-2014, 05:04 PM
Comment? Yet another failure of gun-free zoning.

Your knee jerks so hard that your pink bunny slipper flew off and hit the wall.

A twelve-year-old with a sawed-off shotgun in an instrument case? The gun-owning parent should do time for this.

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 05:05 PM
why has no one asked about the time running up to 'that' 30 years? Guns were around in profusion, even machine guns. Yet, no one wants to discuss the obvious question of why now and not then?

Chip-skiff
01-15-2014, 05:05 PM
fart

At close range, Paul's farts kill people, too.

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 05:26 PM
At close range, Paul's farts kill people, too.

at any range, those farts are indicative of his attitude towards ideas and opinions which don't align with his own... and they are deliberately rude and offensive.

Ian McColgin
01-15-2014, 05:47 PM
The only thirty years mentioned so far on this thread is roughly my remark about the Reagan revolution and its effect on the national corrections system. That has nothing causal to do with the rising tide of firearms deaths and post #32 is without any point in this discussion, unless someone else mentioned the same thirty years and I missed it. Mentions entirely in someone's head do not count.

Ian McColgin
01-15-2014, 05:49 PM
Back to the actual issue of the OP: There are multiple issues here roughly dividable into two major domains. One is the extent to which gun laws might effectivly require childproof storage and thus could have prevented this tragedy; and the other what exactly to do with 12 year old killers.

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 05:51 PM
The only thirty years mentioned so far on this thread is roughly my remark about the Reagan revolution and its effect on the national corrections system. That has nothing causal to do with the rising tide of firearms deaths and post #32 is without any point in this discussion, unless someone else mentioned the same thirty years and I missed it. Mentions entirely in someone's head do not count.

do you have an estimation of how many firearms have died up to this point?

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 05:53 PM
Back to the actual issue of the OP: There are multiple issues here roughly dividable into two major domains. One is the extent to which gun laws might effectivly require childproof storage and thus could have prevented this tragedy; and the other what exactly to do with 12 year old killers.

12 year old are basically copy cats... they learn from their elders... that's YOU and ME... WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TEACH BETTER BEHAVIOR to the world's children

Chip-skiff
01-15-2014, 06:22 PM
12 year old are basically copy cats... they learn from their elders... that's YOU and ME...

What sort of elders leave a sawed-off shotgun and ammo where a child can get them?

(Just read several links: the shotgun was a 22-gauge model, commonly used for small-game and bird hunting, not a tactical/assault weapon. The kid might have sawed it off himself. Guess I'll wait and see.)

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 08:48 PM
What sort of elders leave a sawed-off shotgun and ammo where a child can get them?

(Just read several links: the shotgun was a 22-gauge model, commonly used for small-game and bird hunting, not a tactical/assault weapon. The kid might have sawed it off himself. Guess I'll wait and see.)

I've never heard of a 22 gage... have you?

skuthorp
01-15-2014, 08:52 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Shotgun_shell_comparison.jpg/200px-Shotgun_shell_comparison.jpg
410, 28, 20, 12.

Typo or ignorance on the part of the reporter Philip?

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 08:53 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Shotgun_shell_comparison.jpg/200px-Shotgun_shell_comparison.jpg
410, 28, 20, 12.

Typo or ignorance on the part of the reporter Philip?

... which leads me to conclude that he/she was not qualified to write the article... others, on the other hand, will believe what they are predisposed to believe... for THOSE people, the article was neither hear nor there...

BTW, you left out 8g, 10g, 16g, 14g, 32g and 9mm

skuthorp
01-15-2014, 08:55 PM
Just because a technical matter is wrong doesn't invalidiate the principle.

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 08:57 PM
Just because a technical matter is wrong doesn't invalidiate the principle.

try saying that from the 'other' political direction :)

Jim Bow
01-15-2014, 09:00 PM
As to why this didn't seem to have the national media impact as the shooting a couple of weeks ago,
there is a wonderful book that explains crime and media attention. (http://www.amazon.com/Popular-Crime-Reflections-Celebration-Violence/dp/141655274X)

Chip-skiff
01-15-2014, 09:01 PM
I've never heard of a 22 gage... have you?

That's what CBS News reported. Probably a .20 ga.

What would you recommend for a school shooting?

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 09:02 PM
As to why this didn't seem to have the national media impact as the shooting a couple of weeks ago,
there is a wonderful book that explains crime and media attention. (http://www.amazon.com/Popular-Crime-Reflections-Celebration-Violence/dp/141655274X)

that's an ad... got anything to quote from the book?

bogdog
01-15-2014, 09:03 PM
There were plenty of articles that reported correctly it was a 20 ga. which is what I posted in #11. Maybe someone in copy editing messed up the reporter's work, happens all the time.

Phillip Allen
01-15-2014, 09:05 PM
That's what CBS News reported. Probably a .20 ga.

What would you recommend for a school shooting?

you didn't catch it earlier... not very versed on firearms for someone who wants to tell others how to treat them

why don't we have medical doctors (non lawyers) making supreme court decisions?

skuthorp
01-15-2014, 09:07 PM
"why don't we have medical doctors (non lawyers) making supreme court decisions?"
Careful, judging by some of your SC decisions someone might take you up on that.

Chip-skiff
01-15-2014, 09:11 PM
you didn't catch it earlier... not very versed on firearms for someone who wants to tell others how to treat them?

I don't know much about shotguns. I have learned a lot about obnoxious creeps.

Joe Dupere
01-15-2014, 09:11 PM
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TEACH BETTER BEHAVIOR to the world's children

Me? I just sit on them.

bogdog
01-15-2014, 09:18 PM
you didn't catch it earlier... not very versed on firearms for someone who wants to tell others how to treat them

why don't we have medical doctors (non lawyers) making supreme court decisions?I remember when Dick Metcalf, who knows guns, made some remarks about gun regulations...

htom
01-15-2014, 10:56 PM
It appears that there are 22G but they are rare. I suspect an ignorant editor changed 20g to .22g, and then someone else changed that to 22g.

Shotgun Gauge and bore diameter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_%28bore_diameter%29)

Phil Y
01-15-2014, 11:12 PM
PhilY, you may have missed the last thirty years of US history. The rather enlightened correctional system deToqueville had praised a century earlier has been dismanteled at state and federal levels starting with the Reagan revolution. It is now unabashedly a form of sadistic punishment designed to produce career criminals and perverts.
My tongue was so far in my cheek I nearly bit it off.

Ian McColgin
01-15-2014, 11:15 PM
PhilY, your repeating of my post brought to my eye an incredible typo in the last sentence, "not" where I meant "now" which I'll go back and correct. And your remark about "corrections" may well have been an irony I missed at the time. Sorry about that.

Phil Y
01-15-2014, 11:57 PM
PhilY, your repeating of my post brought to my eye an incredible typo in the last sentence, "not" where I meant "now" which I'll go back and correct. And your remark about "corrections" may well have been an irony I missed at the time. Sorry about that.
Thats how i read your post Ian, and have now also made the correction in the quote, just because its such a hot day today and I have nothing better to do but stay inside and spend time here. (Its about 46C in Adelaide today, we are having the hottest heat wave on record.)

Ian McColgin
01-16-2014, 12:01 AM
I sympathize about the heat.

Phil Y
01-16-2014, 12:06 AM
Yeah, makes me want to go to the mall and shoot people;)

skuthorp
01-16-2014, 01:47 AM
Except it's too hot and you'd burn your fingers on the metal and drop the shells because you sweat to much and anyway the sweat in your eyes means you can't see and anyway, it's too hot.:cool:

Phil Y
01-16-2014, 06:45 AM
Plus I can't get my hands on a gun in this pussy state of ours. How did this happen? Where did all the real men go?

Phillip Allen
01-16-2014, 06:49 AM
Plus I can't get my hands on a gun in this pussy state of ours. How did this happen? Where did all the real men go?

bigfella sez you can get all the guns ya want...? He's said it several times.

Chris Coose
01-16-2014, 08:11 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/justice/indiana-grocery-strore-killing/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

This Indiana assassin had a gun and a knife when he slaughtered a shopper and an employee. I wonder if the cops who killed him wondered which weapon they would use to take him down?

Flying Orca
01-16-2014, 08:57 AM
plus i can't get my hands on a gun in this pussy state of ours. How did this happen? Where did all the real men go?

qotd!

Tom Wilkinson
01-16-2014, 09:24 AM
... which leads me to conclude that he/she was not qualified to write the article... others, on the other hand, will believe what they are predisposed to believe... for THOSE people, the article was neither hear nor there...

BTW, you left out 8g, 10g, 16g, 14g, 32g and 9mm

How does the guage of the weapon affect the content. Ids this you looking at the "big picture" again. Wasn't the sandy hook scholl shooters mom quite well versed in weapons? Seems her kid did a pretty good job murdering a bunch of innocents? I guess having intimate knowledge of said weapons made her qualified to raise the kid around them.

And this from a guy that considers that his home = gun safe as far as storage is concerned. Maybe the family in this case has the same storage mentality.

Phillip Allen
01-16-2014, 12:09 PM
How does the guage of the weapon affect the content. Ids this you looking at the "big picture" again. Wasn't the sandy hook scholl shooters mom quite well versed in weapons? Seems her kid did a pretty good job murdering a bunch of innocents? I guess having intimate knowledge of said weapons made her qualified to raise the kid around them.

And this from a guy that considers that his home = gun safe as far as storage is concerned. Maybe the family in this case has the same storage mentality.

the same way it does if someone whose argument you oppose mispells a word...

Tom Wilkinson
01-16-2014, 12:12 PM
Care to show me where I have done that? I really don't care about spelling. In fact I just caught a typo in my response. You did manage to ignore the entire rest of the post, as usual.

Great defense though. The "two wrongs make a right" plan. Thanks for playing.

Phillip Allen
01-16-2014, 12:17 PM
Care to show me where I have done that? I really don't care about spelling. In fact I just caught a typo in my response. You did manage to ignore the entire rest of the post, as usual.

Great defense though. The "two wrongs make a right" plan. Thanks for playing.

you are part of the GOT and collectively part of the foolishness of all... (divide and concur)

Tom Wilkinson
01-16-2014, 12:39 PM
Sorry, not a member of a gang of anything. Avoid the conversation as usual. Typical. You accuse me of something, can't back it up, and then lump me in with others since you can't support your accusation.

Phil Y
01-16-2014, 03:53 PM
bigfella sez you can get all the guns ya want...? He's said it several times.
i guess it must be true then. Silly me, I thought we had quite restrictive laws about gun ownership here.

stevebaby
01-16-2014, 04:21 PM
Yeah, makes me want to go to the mall and shoot people;)With a Super Soaker? :D

jpb54
01-16-2014, 10:16 PM
What part do you think the violent ,nonstop killing video games have on kids mindsets ?

Phillip Allen
01-16-2014, 10:19 PM
What part do you think the violent ,nonstop killing video games have on kids mindsets ?

the folks who make money on them say that have no part in the violence

hokiefan
01-16-2014, 10:22 PM
What part do you think the violent ,nonstop killing video games have on kids mindsets ?


the folks who make money on them say that have no part in the violence

Just like the folks that make money from guns say that they have no part in the violence.

Phillip Allen
01-16-2014, 10:30 PM
Just like the folks that make money from guns say that they have no part in the violence.

oh, how clever... violent guns again

Tom Wilkinson
01-16-2014, 10:37 PM
oh, how clever... violent guns again

Um, no. Why you insist on reading it that way is beyond me. He said no such thing.