PDA

View Full Version : Message in the ultimate bottle



skuthorp
01-12-2014, 08:56 PM
A friend has found a bottle with a message in it. Put in the water about 45 years ago but it's been up in the beachside brush for some years we think. He found it climbing the cliff.
He's pursuing some enquiries as the bottle was thrown from a RN ship.

We got to talking about the ultimate bottle, Voyager, tossed in the solar winds of outer space.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/images/features/features1.jpg

Will any sentient species ever find it? Will they be able to read it's messages? Will we still be here if they reply?
The odds are not at present.

Garret
01-12-2014, 08:58 PM
The paranoid amongst us would say that we probably don't want anyone to find it & therefore us....

WX
01-12-2014, 09:05 PM
I think the fear is that a race with superior technology will do to us what we have done to those with less technology.:)

ron ll
01-12-2014, 09:13 PM
And the optimists among us would like to think that civilizations can advance to a more compassionate state.

wardd
01-12-2014, 09:21 PM
high on my list of worries is that of aliens traveling trillions of miles to take from us what they could get closer to home much more cheaply

Hwyl
01-12-2014, 10:16 PM
I'm not sure what they'll think of the message of pace from Kurt Waldheim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim

S/V Laura Ellen
01-12-2014, 10:30 PM
And the optimists among us would like to think that civilizations can advance to a more compassionate state.

I'm afraid that our current civilization isn't a good indication that the advance to a more compassionate state is possible.

wardd
01-12-2014, 10:32 PM
I'm afraid that our current civilization isn't a good indication that the advance to a more compassionate state is possible.

we are more compassionate than we used to be

S/V Laura Ellen
01-12-2014, 10:35 PM
we are more compassionate than we used to be

That would be an optimistic slant on things, in many ways we are probably worse.

ron ll
01-12-2014, 10:38 PM
I'm afraid that our current civilization isn't a good indication that the advance to a more compassionate state is possible.

I disagree. As Steven Pinker points out in, "The Better Angels of our Nature" we have steadily progressed as a more peaceful and compassionate species through out our history in spite of the fact that most of us don't see the overall picture.

wardd
01-12-2014, 10:40 PM
That would be an optimistic slant on things, in many ways we are probably worse.

during the time of absolute kings wars were fought at the whim of the king, hitler at least needed a pretext for war

we now have international aid agencies

we are more compassionate because we can be

S/V Laura Ellen
01-12-2014, 10:45 PM
during the time of absolute kings wars were fought at the whim of the king, hitler at least needed a pretext for war

we now have international aid agencies

we are more compassionate because we can be

And we still have wars at the whim of a few, what's changed.
What was changed is that we have advanced our technology that we can kill more people in a very non-personal manner.
Bush proved that we still only need a pretext (invented to support our whim) to go to war against a perceived enemy.

CWSmith
01-12-2014, 10:50 PM
The Voyagers are about 15 light-hours from Earth, give or take. The nearest Earth-like planet found is about 1500 light-years. If ever they are found it will be by a civilization that already travels the stars.


And the optimists among us would like to think that civilizations can advance to a more compassionate state.

I have become firmly convinced that if it is possible to leave our solar system in a meaningful way, we will have already developed the technology that is more than capable of destroying us far more easily than what we have now. Traveling the stars is a test that requires you to have learned to survive your own technology long before you are ready to visit other worlds and that means learning to get along and solve our problems without wars. I fear us much more than I fear any potential aliens. Pogo was right.

wardd
01-12-2014, 10:52 PM
And we still have wars at the whim of a few, what's changed.
What was changed is that we have advanced our technology that we can kill more people in a very non-personal manner.
Bush proved that we still only need a pretext (invented to support our whim) to go to war against a perceived enemy.

hard to believe but wars are less frequent with fewer casualties

if tens of thousands were to be lost in one battle the political fallout would be immense

after ww2 the soviets were reluctant to use their own citizens for foreign adventures on a large scale because of the possibility of rebellion

S/V Laura Ellen
01-12-2014, 10:55 PM
hard to believe but wars are less frequent with fewer casualties

if tens of thousands were to be lost in one battle the political fallout would be immense

after ww2 the soviets were reluctant to use their own citizens for foreign adventures on a large scale because of the possibility of rebellion

So we are better due to our desire for self preservation and not because of compassion?

wardd
01-12-2014, 10:59 PM
So we are better due to our desire for self preservation and not because of compassion?

circumstances can modify behavior which in time changes beliefs

ron ll
01-12-2014, 11:00 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+better+angels+of+our+nature&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

I highly recommend Steven Pinker's book on the subject. It is quite an eye opener.

Garret
01-12-2014, 11:10 PM
The Voyagers are about 15 light-hours from Earth, give or take. The nearest Earth-like planet found is about 1500 light-years. If ever they are found it will be by a civilization that already travels the stars.



I have become firmly convinced that if it is possible to leave our solar system in a meaningful way, we will have already developed the technology that is more than capable of destroying us far more easily than what we have now. Traveling the stars is a test that requires you to have learned to survive your own technology long before you are ready to visit other worlds and that means learning to get along and solve our problems without wars. I fear us much more than I fear any potential aliens. Pogo was right.

I certainly agree with Pogo.... For many years, I've said the only thing likely to get the people of our planet to work together would be a threat from outside. I still believe it.

skuthorp
01-12-2014, 11:30 PM
I certainly agree with Pogo.... For many years, I've said the only thing likely to get the people of our planet to work together would be a threat from outside. I still believe it.
But only temporarily. Threat gone we'd be back at it in an instant. In gact some would not stop.

CWSmith
01-13-2014, 12:11 AM
Forget the threat from above. It's a distraction that argues to build more weapons. We need to learn to solve our problems without weapons or we will not survive.

Look at how we struggle to contain nuclear weaponry. Also biological and chemical weapons proliferate. Next will be drones. I have high school students who can build a cheap drone now. Anything we develop the rest will want and get. It's folly. We learn to live together or we die.

Gerarddm
01-13-2014, 01:31 AM
I think the chances of either Voyager ever being found by aliens is infinitesimally small. But always thought it was ballsy and optimistic of us to attach the golden record to it.

Peerie Maa
01-13-2014, 04:41 AM
I'm afraid that our current civilization isn't a good indication that the advance to a more compassionate state is possible.Not sure about that. There are reports from 2009 of work showing that we are becoming less violent. http://www.npr.org/2013/05/31/175619007/is-the-world-a-less-violent-place

S/V Laura Ellen
01-13-2014, 11:42 AM
Not sure about that. There are reports from 2009 of work showing that we are becoming less violent. http://www.npr.org/2013/05/31/175619007/is-the-world-a-less-violent-place

You might be half way there, now show a causal relationship between violence and compassion.

bogdog
01-13-2014, 12:27 PM
I suspect in a few years Earth will get a citation from the UPD for space littering. That will be our "first contact." I'll bet the litter fine will be severe.

Bob Adams
01-13-2014, 12:27 PM
I think the chances of either Voyager ever being found by aliens is infinitesimally small. But always thought it was ballsy and optimistic of us to attach the golden record to it.

Pretty cool:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Paul Pless
01-13-2014, 12:35 PM
I think the chances of either Voyager ever being found by aliens is infinitesimally small. But always thought it was ballsy and optimistic of us to attach the golden record to it.pure ego

the_gr8t_waldo
01-13-2014, 01:04 PM
And so is the notion that, contact with another civilization will end up improving our "compassion quotient" Just wishfully thinking that the planet will be better for adding them to our Facebook friends list!

CWSmith
01-13-2014, 02:13 PM
pure ego

Not ego. Hope and optimism. Ego would be assuming that we are the only people in the galaxy.

skuthorp
01-13-2014, 03:19 PM
I read a sci fi story a while ago where Voyager was found, by human interstellar travellers in the future. The story was about the excitement in the crew because the first ever artifact of an intelligent race had been detected in interstellar space, and finished when they found out what it was.

Phil Y
01-13-2014, 03:27 PM
What did the message say?

skuthorp
01-13-2014, 03:30 PM
Nothing earth shattering Phil, just who and when and where and what ship and a few words about his thoughts at the time.
At present the finder is trolling through RN records to see if the man is still alive.

Willin'
01-13-2014, 03:33 PM
We'll make great pets.

Garret
01-13-2014, 06:19 PM
We'll make great pets.

Probably have to be muzzled though....

Bob Adams
01-13-2014, 06:26 PM
Probably have to be muzzled though....

Housebroken,....we do a good job of fouling our home.

Garret
01-13-2014, 06:28 PM
Housebroken,....we do a good job of fouling our home.

Yup - that too.

Mad Scientist
01-13-2014, 08:39 PM
We'll make great pets.

Spayed/neutered.

Tom

skuthorp
01-13-2014, 08:42 PM
And discarded to be 'put down' when holidays come round or the fashion changes.