View Full Version : conservatives and job creation

John Smith
01-12-2014, 09:43 AM
I don't know how we are expected to believe a politician who tells us on one day that the government can't create jobs, but on another day that congress should focus on creating jobs.

When you cut through all the smoke, there are different kinds of jobs. There are government jobs where people work directly for the government, there are private sector jobs where people work for a private company, and their are private sector jobs where the company is doing work for the government.

Does anyone here deny the simple (I think) fact that demand creates jobs? Under this theory, people buy things and other people make those things for these people to buy. If they buy more, more people are put to work making whatever it is. If they don't buy enough the company shuts down and more people are unemployed.

Anything that takes money out of the pockets of consumers cuts demand. That includes cutting food stamps or unemployment benefits. These kill other jobs.

I don't personally know anyone who wouldn't like to see our infrastructure improved. I know some who don't want to spend the money, but they've been unable to convince me that we won't have to spend that money eventually, and it will be far more costly if we put it off.

The government, in improving our infrastructure would contract with a lot of private companies. It we used all domestically supplied materials, it would include a lot more private companies and create a lot of private sector jobs.

These companies would be more than kept afloat by government contracts and would be able to engage in private contracts, like paving YOUR driveway, and that would mean hiring more people.

All these people with all these jobs would spend their money on goods and services, increasing demand, and making for more jobs.

There is a single flaw in this. Eventually the money goes to the country of manufacture. Guy gets a good job and buys a new flat screen tv, the help for making/keeping American jobs is limited. Now, if that tv was made here, it would be a whole lot more American jobs created because this guy's company got a contract to work on our infrastructure.

In my opinion, If we wish to create American jobs, we have to start with our infrastructure, which is a necessity anyway. Then we have to find a way to get those televisions, washing machines, more cars, etc. built in the USA.

I'm willing to discuss any ideas that will help bring manufacturing back to this country.

the first thing on my list is single payer health care. The ACA pretty much continues the employer based system we have and it would be a poor business decision to build a plant here if you have the option of going where employee health insurance is not a cost of doing business. I'd consider a plan where if the rich create jobs, then I'd cut their taxes, rather than cutting taxes first.

I confess to being a bit tired of threads on Obamacare killing jobs. Or the deficit killing jobs.

This is not difficult. Anything that puts money into the pockets of the people creates jobs. Anything that takes money out of the pockets of the people kills jobs.

The government definitely had a role here.

Paul Pless
01-12-2014, 09:49 AM
Anything that takes money out of the pockets of the people kills jobs.no new taxes :D

Paul Pless
01-12-2014, 09:55 AM
I confess to being a bit tired of threads on Obamacareme too!

01-12-2014, 03:28 PM
John Smith, imagine you are president and pretend you had something on the leaders of the House and Senate. Not that they killed their opponent in an arranged plane crash or the usual boring stuff. Say, like you own them like LBJ owned Congress. Now what would you do to go "create jobs" with government? I mean, when your new programs are in full swing a net increase in the number of adult Americans are working? Not green jobs that kill 3, 6, or 20 jobs for every green job created until the company goes bankrupt after exhausting your subsidy. I mean really create jobs with government inputs. What would you do?

You and I disagree about this but I think you could not do anything just like Obama could not do anything. The government is tapped out. America cannot issue massive new debt and fund your Keynesian dreams because since the end of the Bush administration, the only real buyers of our debt have been ourselves through the money magik of the Federal Reserve. That is why every penny that could have been used to bail out Detroit and Chicago went to buy billions of bullets and armored vehicles. Government agencies are rationally planning for civil unrest that they figure will come this Spring due to the mass die off of remaining private sector jobs and the need to confiscate pension funds. I personally believe as long as 500 channels are available on cable tv there will not be massive civil unrest, but I am wrong about a lot of things.

When Republican Bush and Democrat Obama made the decision not to criminally prosecute Jamie Dimon (Jamie Dimon’s perp walk: Why it could be this year’s Christmas miracle
JPMorgan's CEO just violated a federal statute carrying a prison sentence. But will the punishment fit the crime?http://www.salon.com/2013/12/18/jamie_dimons_perp_walk_why_it_could_be_this_years_ christmas_miracle/ ), the game is over. The banks took all their emergency bail out money and rationally did more unlawful destructive things with it( See for example Bank of America: Too Crooked to Fail The bank has defrauded everyone from investors and insurers to homeowners and the unemployed. So why does the government keep bailing it out? http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/bank-of-america-too-crooked-to-fail-20120314).

John, I appreciate your intent. Maybe you would try to cut the Federal Reserve out of their share and take a bullet like John F. Kennedy did (actually, JFK took a bunch of shots Multiple Shots from Many Directions Killed JFK http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/was-jfks-assassination-a-conspiracy/multiple-shots-prove-jfk-assassination-was-a-conspiracy). If you monetized labor or farm commodities you could create a net gain of jobs with big infrastructure projects. I believe you would be more successful than Stalin with his 5 year plans because unlike the former USSR, America is the top economy in the financial food chain. It would take the banksters a decade to realign themselves with Putin and the Chinese to the degree they could start the amphibious landings on the East and West Coasts. But since you really aren't talking about game changing moves, you are stuck with what options our ruling class and their personal wealth tied to the current bankster economy will allow. All you are left with is the same constant net overall tax rate we have had for several decades. You just get to adjust who pays what a little.

Bill Clinton was effective even though he had to raise the taxes on the middle class and cut some welfare. But in the wake of giving 7 Trillion to the 6 biggest banks (which are still insolvent), a left leaning Congress and an authentically Leftist president cannot do more than is being done now. And that is failing. It is also why the biggest opposition real conservative Republicans and Tea Partiers are facing on the road to 2016 are incumbent Republicans. They know the game that has to be played and their personal wealth and life style depends on it. We are dodging their attacks daily.