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Hughman
12-31-2005, 06:57 PM
I have acquired some bailey style planes with brand names I don't recognize. Can anyone shed some light on these?

Worth (#5 size) This one has the bed and frog cast in one piece! heavy bugger.

Dunlap (#5)

Sargent VBM #7, although it has an old Stanley blade.

Eclipse (#4)

Also a wood/steel combination plane Union #29

Hughman
12-31-2005, 06:57 PM
I have acquired some bailey style planes with brand names I don't recognize. Can anyone shed some light on these?

Worth (#5 size) This one has the bed and frog cast in one piece! heavy bugger.

Dunlap (#5)

Sargent VBM #7, although it has an old Stanley blade.

Eclipse (#4)

Also a wood/steel combination plane Union #29

Hughman
12-31-2005, 06:57 PM
I have acquired some bailey style planes with brand names I don't recognize. Can anyone shed some light on these?

Worth (#5 size) This one has the bed and frog cast in one piece! heavy bugger.

Dunlap (#5)

Sargent VBM #7, although it has an old Stanley blade.

Eclipse (#4)

Also a wood/steel combination plane Union #29

JimConlin
12-31-2005, 11:52 PM
Dunlap was the Sears Roebuck house brand.

JimConlin
12-31-2005, 11:52 PM
Dunlap was the Sears Roebuck house brand.

JimConlin
12-31-2005, 11:52 PM
Dunlap was the Sears Roebuck house brand.

Bob Smalser
01-01-2006, 12:28 AM
I believe that Dunlap tools were made in Germany....the product of the post-war reconstruction of West German industry Sears participated in.

Sargent's history is here:

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id141.html

Union Hardware contracted with many manufacturers for their store brands, to include Witherby and Greenlee. Dunno who made Union Hardware planes, but Sargent made many planes for hardware store house brands....I use a Shapleigh Hardware block plane that is undoubtedly a Sargent.

I've seen Worth chisels before....I remember them is middling quality....and I'm afraid I haven't found a good Eclipse chisel yet. The three I've seen won't take an edge.

Maybe somebody has a copy of the Directory for American Toolmakers and can offer more.

http://www.eaiainfo.org/Booksale54.htm

[ 01-01-2006, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-01-2006, 12:28 AM
I believe that Dunlap tools were made in Germany....the product of the post-war reconstruction of West German industry Sears participated in.

Sargent's history is here:

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id141.html

Union Hardware contracted with many manufacturers for their store brands, to include Witherby and Greenlee. Dunno who made Union Hardware planes, but Sargent made many planes for hardware store house brands....I use a Shapleigh Hardware block plane that is undoubtedly a Sargent.

I've seen Worth chisels before....I remember them is middling quality....and I'm afraid I haven't found a good Eclipse chisel yet. The three I've seen won't take an edge.

Maybe somebody has a copy of the Directory for American Toolmakers and can offer more.

http://www.eaiainfo.org/Booksale54.htm

[ 01-01-2006, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-01-2006, 12:28 AM
I believe that Dunlap tools were made in Germany....the product of the post-war reconstruction of West German industry Sears participated in.

Sargent's history is here:

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id141.html

Union Hardware contracted with many manufacturers for their store brands, to include Witherby and Greenlee. Dunno who made Union Hardware planes, but Sargent made many planes for hardware store house brands....I use a Shapleigh Hardware block plane that is undoubtedly a Sargent.

I've seen Worth chisels before....I remember them is middling quality....and I'm afraid I haven't found a good Eclipse chisel yet. The three I've seen won't take an edge.

Maybe somebody has a copy of the Directory for American Toolmakers and can offer more.

http://www.eaiainfo.org/Booksale54.htm

[ 01-01-2006, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Mrleft8
01-01-2006, 07:45 AM
I just recieved a "Trustworthy" bench plane.... Never hoid of them before... Not a bad little chunk of iron...

Mrleft8
01-01-2006, 07:45 AM
I just recieved a "Trustworthy" bench plane.... Never hoid of them before... Not a bad little chunk of iron...

Mrleft8
01-01-2006, 07:45 AM
I just recieved a "Trustworthy" bench plane.... Never hoid of them before... Not a bad little chunk of iron...

Hughman
01-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Thanks, Bob and Jim. The Worth brand shows up in the "Old Tool Forum" archives:

http://www.f rontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=102469&submit_thread=1#message (http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=102469&submit_thread=1#message)



In his "P-tampia" volumes, Roger Smith notes that "Worth" marked block and bench planes were marketed by the Bigelow & Dawes Co of Boston, Mass about 1925. He also indicates that these were made by Peck, Stowe & Wilcox for Bigelow & Dawes.

Draw knives and braces by "Worth" are fairly common tools, and always have impressed me as quality items. The braces in particular are rugged and nicely finished. They have a decided "Pexto" appearance, and also probably originated from P.S. & W.


[ 01-01-2006, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Hughman ]

Hughman
01-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Thanks, Bob and Jim. The Worth brand shows up in the "Old Tool Forum" archives:

http://www.f rontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=102469&submit_thread=1#message (http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=102469&submit_thread=1#message)



In his "P-tampia" volumes, Roger Smith notes that "Worth" marked block and bench planes were marketed by the Bigelow & Dawes Co of Boston, Mass about 1925. He also indicates that these were made by Peck, Stowe & Wilcox for Bigelow & Dawes.

Draw knives and braces by "Worth" are fairly common tools, and always have impressed me as quality items. The braces in particular are rugged and nicely finished. They have a decided "Pexto" appearance, and also probably originated from P.S. & W.


[ 01-01-2006, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Hughman ]

Hughman
01-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Thanks, Bob and Jim. The Worth brand shows up in the "Old Tool Forum" archives:

http://www.f rontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=102469&submit_thread=1#message (http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/get.phtml?message_id=102469&submit_thread=1#message)



In his "P-tampia" volumes, Roger Smith notes that "Worth" marked block and bench planes were marketed by the Bigelow & Dawes Co of Boston, Mass about 1925. He also indicates that these were made by Peck, Stowe & Wilcox for Bigelow & Dawes.

Draw knives and braces by "Worth" are fairly common tools, and always have impressed me as quality items. The braces in particular are rugged and nicely finished. They have a decided "Pexto" appearance, and also probably originated from P.S. & W.


[ 01-01-2006, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Hughman ]

Al Owen
01-01-2006, 06:40 PM
Eclipse Brand tools have been made in home work shops for many years in England. Vary much like items that are made in Switzerland. Kinda of like building by committee. There machine tools such as punches have no equal, there scrapers suck. Good chance your plane was made in England.

Al Owen
01-01-2006, 06:40 PM
Eclipse Brand tools have been made in home work shops for many years in England. Vary much like items that are made in Switzerland. Kinda of like building by committee. There machine tools such as punches have no equal, there scrapers suck. Good chance your plane was made in England.

Al Owen
01-01-2006, 06:40 PM
Eclipse Brand tools have been made in home work shops for many years in England. Vary much like items that are made in Switzerland. Kinda of like building by committee. There machine tools such as punches have no equal, there scrapers suck. Good chance your plane was made in England.

Nicholas Carey
01-01-2006, 07:50 PM
I've got a Union #4 smoother.

Union Manufacturing of New Britain, Connecticut was one of Stanley Rule & Level's competitors. It was a somewhat incestuous relationship -- Timothy W. Stanley (died 1897) was the company president.

Union actually made some tools under contract for Stanley with Stanley then modified and sold under their own name.

The Stanley Works finally bought Union Manufacturing out completely in c. 1920.

There was another maker of Union planes (Union Tool) in Orange, Mass (same county as Goodall-Pratt and Millers Falls) as well.

Transitional planes (wood sole, metal body) were made from the 1870s on past WWI. They were lighter and cheaper than the metal-bodied planes. The selling point was to offer Bailey-style adjustments on a wooden plane so as to get the stick-in-the-mud codgers who believed the only good plane was a wooden plane.

[edited to add]Union Mfg. Co. planes are perfectly good planes, as good as a Stanley.

[ 01-01-2006, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

Nicholas Carey
01-01-2006, 07:50 PM
I've got a Union #4 smoother.

Union Manufacturing of New Britain, Connecticut was one of Stanley Rule & Level's competitors. It was a somewhat incestuous relationship -- Timothy W. Stanley (died 1897) was the company president.

Union actually made some tools under contract for Stanley with Stanley then modified and sold under their own name.

The Stanley Works finally bought Union Manufacturing out completely in c. 1920.

There was another maker of Union planes (Union Tool) in Orange, Mass (same county as Goodall-Pratt and Millers Falls) as well.

Transitional planes (wood sole, metal body) were made from the 1870s on past WWI. They were lighter and cheaper than the metal-bodied planes. The selling point was to offer Bailey-style adjustments on a wooden plane so as to get the stick-in-the-mud codgers who believed the only good plane was a wooden plane.

[edited to add]Union Mfg. Co. planes are perfectly good planes, as good as a Stanley.

[ 01-01-2006, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

Nicholas Carey
01-01-2006, 07:50 PM
I've got a Union #4 smoother.

Union Manufacturing of New Britain, Connecticut was one of Stanley Rule & Level's competitors. It was a somewhat incestuous relationship -- Timothy W. Stanley (died 1897) was the company president.

Union actually made some tools under contract for Stanley with Stanley then modified and sold under their own name.

The Stanley Works finally bought Union Manufacturing out completely in c. 1920.

There was another maker of Union planes (Union Tool) in Orange, Mass (same county as Goodall-Pratt and Millers Falls) as well.

Transitional planes (wood sole, metal body) were made from the 1870s on past WWI. They were lighter and cheaper than the metal-bodied planes. The selling point was to offer Bailey-style adjustments on a wooden plane so as to get the stick-in-the-mud codgers who believed the only good plane was a wooden plane.

[edited to add]Union Mfg. Co. planes are perfectly good planes, as good as a Stanley.

[ 01-01-2006, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Nicholas Carey ]

BrianY
01-02-2006, 12:21 AM
The Sargent VBM metal planes (as oppsed to the half wooden, half metal "transitional planes) have a very good rep with old tool fanatics. I believe they have the same mouth adjustment features as the highly regarded and lusted-after Stanley Bedrock line of planes and the overall quality is considered to be equal to that of the Stanley's. If your plane is in good condition, you've got a very good user tool. If it's in excellent condition, you've got something that is collectable, although the absence of an original blade brings down the value. If it's in poor condition but is not cracked or warped (i.e it's a little rusty but basically sound), it's worth spending some time on it to restore it to usable condition.

Check out what folks are paying for Sargent planes on ebay to get an idea of what it's worth.

BrianY
01-02-2006, 12:21 AM
The Sargent VBM metal planes (as oppsed to the half wooden, half metal "transitional planes) have a very good rep with old tool fanatics. I believe they have the same mouth adjustment features as the highly regarded and lusted-after Stanley Bedrock line of planes and the overall quality is considered to be equal to that of the Stanley's. If your plane is in good condition, you've got a very good user tool. If it's in excellent condition, you've got something that is collectable, although the absence of an original blade brings down the value. If it's in poor condition but is not cracked or warped (i.e it's a little rusty but basically sound), it's worth spending some time on it to restore it to usable condition.

Check out what folks are paying for Sargent planes on ebay to get an idea of what it's worth.

BrianY
01-02-2006, 12:21 AM
The Sargent VBM metal planes (as oppsed to the half wooden, half metal "transitional planes) have a very good rep with old tool fanatics. I believe they have the same mouth adjustment features as the highly regarded and lusted-after Stanley Bedrock line of planes and the overall quality is considered to be equal to that of the Stanley's. If your plane is in good condition, you've got a very good user tool. If it's in excellent condition, you've got something that is collectable, although the absence of an original blade brings down the value. If it's in poor condition but is not cracked or warped (i.e it's a little rusty but basically sound), it's worth spending some time on it to restore it to usable condition.

Check out what folks are paying for Sargent planes on ebay to get an idea of what it's worth.

sawcutmill
01-03-2006, 06:16 AM
"VBM"= Very Best Made! Some of these Sargents are highly collectible now.....dont forget Keen Kutter, and Winchester! stephen

sawcutmill
01-03-2006, 06:16 AM
"VBM"= Very Best Made! Some of these Sargents are highly collectible now.....dont forget Keen Kutter, and Winchester! stephen

sawcutmill
01-03-2006, 06:16 AM
"VBM"= Very Best Made! Some of these Sargents are highly collectible now.....dont forget Keen Kutter, and Winchester! stephen

abe
01-03-2006, 01:03 PM
Geez Hugh, noted in another topic that you are celebrating two birthdays since the year 2002. You must be gettin as old as some of these oddball planes. smile.gif I only celebrate birfdays every five years now.

Thought about your plane stash when working in the barn this morning. I have a small stash as well with a goal of reconditioning them for use.

Among the group are a Sargent VBM 3416, Bailey #5 and a Dunlap jack stamped "BL" on both the sole and blade.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid198/pf07c58452864cedc84a043a6b08df1e9/f0c24c87.jpg

Can anyone of you knowledgeable folks direct me toward a web-site or topic here on the Forum that I recall covers the restoration of planes?

Thanks Much, abe

[ 01-03-2006, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: abe ]

abe
01-03-2006, 01:03 PM
Geez Hugh, noted in another topic that you are celebrating two birthdays since the year 2002. You must be gettin as old as some of these oddball planes. smile.gif I only celebrate birfdays every five years now.

Thought about your plane stash when working in the barn this morning. I have a small stash as well with a goal of reconditioning them for use.

Among the group are a Sargent VBM 3416, Bailey #5 and a Dunlap jack stamped "BL" on both the sole and blade.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid198/pf07c58452864cedc84a043a6b08df1e9/f0c24c87.jpg

Can anyone of you knowledgeable folks direct me toward a web-site or topic here on the Forum that I recall covers the restoration of planes?

Thanks Much, abe

[ 01-03-2006, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: abe ]

abe
01-03-2006, 01:03 PM
Geez Hugh, noted in another topic that you are celebrating two birthdays since the year 2002. You must be gettin as old as some of these oddball planes. smile.gif I only celebrate birfdays every five years now.

Thought about your plane stash when working in the barn this morning. I have a small stash as well with a goal of reconditioning them for use.

Among the group are a Sargent VBM 3416, Bailey #5 and a Dunlap jack stamped "BL" on both the sole and blade.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid198/pf07c58452864cedc84a043a6b08df1e9/f0c24c87.jpg

Can anyone of you knowledgeable folks direct me toward a web-site or topic here on the Forum that I recall covers the restoration of planes?

Thanks Much, abe

[ 01-03-2006, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: abe ]

troutman
01-03-2006, 01:09 PM
woodnet.net is full of hand tool suff. check a guy, rarebear, restors and sells planes. I think he has info.

troutman
01-03-2006, 01:09 PM
woodnet.net is full of hand tool suff. check a guy, rarebear, restors and sells planes. I think he has info.

troutman
01-03-2006, 01:09 PM
woodnet.net is full of hand tool suff. check a guy, rarebear, restors and sells planes. I think he has info.