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GregH
01-09-2014, 02:16 PM
Anyone else see it? Talk about brass gronicles!

genglandoh
01-09-2014, 02:37 PM
I watch it and it was great.

This is my favorite quote about Shackleton

“For scientific discovery give me Scott; for speed and efficiency of travel give me Amundsen; but when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton.” Sir Raymond Priestly, Antarctic Explorer and Geologist.

skuthorp
01-09-2014, 02:47 PM
I think we saw it last year.

Gerarddm
01-09-2014, 04:27 PM
They had it comparatively easy compared to what Shackleton went through, but yes, still, a test.

Knowing that there was a support vessel trailing you all the way, and knowledge that somebody had previously made the voyage, must have helped tremendously from a psychological viewpoint.

Shackleton, of course had neither. What a man.

skuthorp
01-09-2014, 06:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5KeV7Fvenc

Waddie
01-10-2014, 12:55 AM
I've read and watched several things on Shackleton, and he's impressive, but I have always been more impressed with Frank Worsley, the Captain of the Endurance and real leader of the rescue crew. What a sailor. Shackelton and everyone else would have perished without this man's skills and courage.

regards,
Waddie

Canoeyawl
01-10-2014, 12:58 AM
I happened to catch it just by luck, it is a new show.

"Chasing Shackleton: Episode Two premieres Wednesday, January 15, 2014."

The Gentleman Sawyer
01-10-2014, 02:48 AM
If you have the PBS app, it's available on demand, and its outstanding. I was particularly fascinated with the mast cameras.

Ken

StevenBauer
01-15-2014, 07:40 PM
This is on tonight on PBS. Part two of three. I'm going to look for part one online.



Steven

Donn
01-15-2014, 07:47 PM
If you have the PBS app, it's available on demand, and its outstanding. I was particularly fascinated with the mast cameras.

Ken

I just installed the PBS app on my Kindle today. I'll have to check it out.

StevenBauer
01-15-2014, 08:53 PM
I just watched part one. Very good so far. I saw it here: http://video.mpbn.net/video/2365145041/

Part 2 on PBS in an hour.

Steven

genglandoh
01-15-2014, 09:01 PM
They had it comparatively easy compared to what Shackleton went through, but yes, still, a test.

Knowing that there was a support vessel trailing you all the way, and knowledge that somebody had previously made the voyage, must have helped tremendously from a psychological viewpoint.

Shackleton, of course had neither. What a man.

Totally agree.

Breakaway
01-15-2014, 09:39 PM
Oh, glad I saw this thread. I caught Part I last week. Thanks for the reminder. ( I'm sort of a Shackleton geek)


Kevin

Gerarddm
01-16-2014, 02:57 AM
Caught part two tonight. After all the detailed prep about recreating Shackleton's parameters, they broke cover and had a modern MRE meal at one point on the boat. Several expedition members suffered trench foot and were unable to be considered to trek across South Georgia island for the last bit. This caused a bit of a strain between the expedition leader and the team's consulting doctor. I think the doc was correct.

Final episode will be the trek.

Duncan Gibbs
01-16-2014, 07:02 AM
The third instalment is the 'making of' the documentary, itself an extreme test of men and equipment.

Who says a fella can't multi-task? :)

Amazing feat at any time and even with support and OH&S considerations like these guys had, but for Shackleton and his crew it was do or die. Amazing skill and determination, and reminds me of the fellow the subject of Touching the Void, not to mention the guy that cut his own arm off having been trapped in a canyon. When basic survival is at stake the indomitability of the human spirit is astounding to behold.

It all really makes me want a Go-Pro even badder! :D

Nicholas Scheuer
01-16-2014, 07:13 AM
The Shackleton quote genglandof cites above is my fav quote by anyone.

bahma
01-16-2014, 08:08 AM
Came across the second part by chance, a truely remarkable man..... One who has been my idle most all of my life.
thank you for the links.

Iceboy
01-16-2014, 08:48 AM
In my opinion these recreations are pointless. They had back up. They had some modern conveniences. They had medical care. Sure, they sailed the same basic route in a small boat in poor clothing and bad conditions but it proves nothing about the original venture if they didn't first spend over a year in the same conditions that Shackleton's crew endured. All the same I did enjoy watching it for some perverse reason.

Michael D. Storey
01-16-2014, 10:12 AM
I saw it. Well done. I have never been in the Southern Climes that far south, but I felt that I had a sense of how it is different from the north.

What I am waiting for is a search for Robert Johnson's grave, one where they find it.

Brian Palmer
01-16-2014, 12:06 PM
No body ever wants to do a recreation of the 21 guys who wintered over on Elephant Island, living in the upturned boats on a surface of slowly melting pengiun guano.

I saw episodes 1 and 2, and one of the messages for me was that Shackleton certainly had a bit of luck on his side, too, as well as a lot of skilled people. They could have been lost so many times, and they would have just become the 20th century' Franklin expedition.

One important feature of the recreated boat I think differed from the James Caird: Did the James Caird still have the benches inside, making it very hard to move about beneath deck?

Brian

Dan McCosh
01-16-2014, 12:14 PM
No body ever wants to do a recreation of the 21 guys who wintered over on Elephant Island, living in the upturned boats on a surface of slowly melting pengiun guano.

I saw episodes 1 and 2, and one of the messages for me was that Shackleton certainly had a bit of luck on his side, too, as well as a lot of skilled people. They could have been lost so many times, and they would have just become the 20th century' Franklin expedition.

One important feature of the recreated boat I think differed from the James Caird: Did the James Caird still have the benches inside, making it very hard to move about beneath deck?

Brian As I recall, in the James Caird, the sleeping space consisted of ballast rocks, sloshing with sea water. The men used rotting skins for warmth, with the hair coming off in clumps.

Cuyahoga Chuck
01-16-2014, 12:18 PM
Totally agree.

Holy Cow! genglandoh watches WVIZ, PBS in Cleveland. Doesn't it irritate your right-wing proclivites when you dip you toes into the liberal world of PBS-TV?
WVIZ broadcasts Bill Moyers who only last week took apart the right-wing governance in North Carolina. Did you see it?
Don't forget to keep your membership current, bunkie.

genglandoh
01-16-2014, 12:35 PM
In my opinion these recreations are pointless. They had back up. They had some modern conveniences. They had medical care. Sure, they sailed the same basic route in a small boat in poor clothing and bad conditions but it proves nothing about the original venture if they didn't first spend over a year in the same conditions that Shackleton's crew endured. All the same I did enjoy watching it for some perverse reason.

I have no problem with a recreation that does not follow the original exactly.
Safety and health is important.
I would not want any of these guys to have a long term medical problem.
Like having to cut off toes just to be true to the original.

All in all they did try to follow the original as much as can be expected.

Dan McCosh
01-16-2014, 12:39 PM
Might note that the re-creators likely would have been wrecked and died on the coast of South Georgia without a warning from the chase boat. It simply illustrated the role of chance and luck in both efforts. It doesn't diminish the accomplishment of following Shackleton's track--in some ways it enhances understanding.

StevenBauer
01-16-2014, 05:06 PM
As I recall, in the James Caird, the sleeping space consisted of ballast rocks, sloshing with sea water. The men used rotting skins for warmth, with the hair coming off in clumps.


Yes, reindeer skin sleeping bags. I can't believe how nasty the food looked. And I guess it smelled and tasted even worse, they were comparing it to dog food. Sort of ironic as the people whose lives they were reenacting actually ate their dogs.




Steven

StevenBauer
01-16-2014, 05:14 PM
One important feature of the recreated boat I think differed from the James Caird: Did the James Caird still have the benches inside, making it very hard to move about beneath deck?

Brian

When I saw the James Caird in Boston her canvass cockpit cover was in place so we couldn't see the interior. Is she back at Dulwich?


Steven

Reynard38
01-16-2014, 05:38 PM
Great program.
Shackleton had one big advantage. Failure was not an option. Ultimate motivation.

genglandoh
01-16-2014, 07:13 PM
Might note that the re-creators likely would have been wrecked and died on the coast of South Georgia without a warning from the chase boat. It simply illustrated the role of chance and luck in both efforts. It doesn't diminish the accomplishment of following Shackleton's track--in some ways it enhances understanding.

I think the show said they were 14 miles off in their navigation.
800 mile trip, difficult conditions and only off my 14 miles pretty good.

Breakaway
01-16-2014, 08:18 PM
I enjoyed the episode. But then, I don't think the point of re-creating an historical event is to claim that the recreators are somehow equal to the task of the people of the past. Instead, I think the point is that maybe, just maybe, re-creation may give us a glimpse into history that reading diaries and letters or sifting through long cold cooking fires does not provide. Its not done so one can say, " I am like Shackleton( or Grant, or Napolean,or..)." Rather it's to say, "I am a little closer to understanding these men than I was before."

Whether one thinks such is a worthwhile reward for the endeavor depends upon the value one places on knowledge of history.

Kevin

Dan McCosh
01-16-2014, 08:33 PM
I think the show said they were 14 miles off in their navigation.
800 mile trip, difficult conditions and only off my 14 miles pretty good. Their navigation was excellent, but the error could easily have killed them, as it meant closing on rocks in the fog in the middle of the night, rather than in daylight the next day--a matter of six hours or so. The same could be said for the original voyage. Luck has its place in history. It shouldn't diminish the accomplishment of the re-creators.

genglandoh
01-16-2014, 08:45 PM
Their navigation was excellent, but the error could easily have killed them, as it meant closing on rocks in the fog in the middle of the night, rather than in daylight the next day--a matter of six hours or so. The same could be said for the original voyage. Luck has its place in history. It shouldn't diminish the accomplishment of the re-creators.\

I agree with you that they would of had a very bad problem if they did not have the support ship giving them a warning.

JamesCaird
01-18-2014, 11:43 AM
Hi Guys- From my nom de plume you can see I may have some knowledge of this? I can nit-pick a few things about the latest re-creation of the James Caird voyage, and I will, but I still give these guys high marks for what they did accomplish. But first I do have to question "Just what was accomplished?" After all we do know it could be done. This latest resailing of the James Caird was well executed and plenty goes into the effort just to get the project conceived, backed, financed and logistically supported just to begin. The voyage itself is the next part.
But a few items of note:
1. The original James Caird was lightly built, more or less an open surf boat, built to Captain Worsley's specifications. He was a supremely capable and experienced square rig sailor and Navigator and highly experienced in landing such boats on surf beaches.
2. Once Endurance was abandoned it was evident that the several small boats would need to be built up to support the passage of the whole ship's crew to the nearest point of refuge. This was begun immediately by Endurance's Chippy MacNiesh on the ice. The James Caird was initially decked fore and aft, still open amidships and a rig and rudder added.
3. Once afloat with the other boats (2, Endurance actually started out with 4 boats then 5..) The three open boats made it from the Ice to Elephant Island.
4 Once there it was apparent that one boat must sail for help- James Caird was the largest so Chippy McNiesh added more decking amidships and strengthened the keelson with a mast from one of the other two boats.
5. Unlike the replicas, the real James Caird did not have a complete solid deck as not enough material was available. She retained her thwarts as necessary for structural strength. Ballast was added once afloat in the form of gravel in bags and beach stone from Elephant Isle.
5. The story of the passage stands by itself- however, Worsley's initial goal was the outlying islands just W of S. Georgia (Willets Isle) as they knew they must reach the NE side of S. Georgia. Once enroute, for lack of fixes Shackleton grew nervous (by some accounts) and caused Worsley to plot his course for the middle of South Georgia hoping, thereby, to minimize the risk of missing it altogether. Ultimately Worsley hit his target dead on.
6. The Alexandra Shackleton's crew was not able to make the actual 1916 James Caird's landing spot (something they failed to mention in the current film, but I still give them a 99%! They made Peggoty Beach for the same reason Shackleton put into Cave Cove: it was the first place they could land!
7. The Alexandra Shackleton does not appear to have her thwarts and seems to sport a watertight bulkhead and hatch forward of the cockpit.
8. I built the James Caird replica you saw in BOston (Museum of Science) and other places initially to recreate the voyage after we had made the Shackleton films in 1999-2000. As such I initially include watertight bulkheads but they were removed when the boat was redirected to Museum and Movie appearances. She does not have the thwarts and when sailing had 1200-1500 lbs if lead ballast under the floor boards-quite palatial....
9. My James Caird replica was actually quite a nice sailing small boat, the rig, standing lug and tiller lines worked quite well although slow in tacking as she lacked much keel on which to pivot.
10. That boat was acquired by the South Georgia Museum and now resides at Gritviken, S. Georgia about 1/4 mile from Shackleton himself.
All a great experience and good fun.
Cheers/ JC

StevenBauer
01-18-2014, 06:57 PM
When I saw the James Caird in Boston her canvass cockpit cover was in place so we couldn't see the interior. Is she back at Dulwich?


Steven


I guess I was misremembering when I posted this. I'm pretty sure I saw the actual James Caird, not the replica. Thinking back we saw her in New York, not in Boston. Wasn't the actual James Craig in New York? At the Museum Of Natural History, maybe 1999. Man time flies, eh?

Steven

obscured by clouds
01-19-2014, 06:53 AM
The original James Caird is in the the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, or at least she was last time I was there in 2008