What kind of saws? (somewhat OT)

[Donn]

This winter I will be starting a fairly extensive remodel on the house, and I need advice on how to equip myself, saw-wise.

The first project is to replace about 500sf of subfloor. Finish floor will be old wide plank heart pine. Walls and ceiling will also be plank.

Can I cut all this stuff adequately with a good circular saw and saw-guide, or do I need to invest in a table saw?

There will also be lots of molding and trim work, so I expect to buy a power miter saw. Any suggestions on brand/type?

[stan v]

Radial arm saw with extension bench will handle most cuts to length, easier to handle long pieces. Miter saw is great for trim. I've got a Makita, 18 years old. Craftsman radial, at least 28 years old. Makita circular saw for cutting out floor. Crowbars, make sure one is a wonderbar. You're good to go. Oh yea, good knee pads. You'll thank me later. Be careful with your back. Come to think of it, chainsaw might come in handy, or sawzall. Then hire someone to use 'em. tongue.gif

[Scott Rosen]

I'm doing some remodeling of my living room/dining room right now, including lots of trim. I figure my table saw will handle everything. The only drawback is that I'll need to bring everything down to my gara--oops, I mean shop--for cutting.

If you invest in a good table saw, you won't regret it.

[Scott Rosen]

Ditto to what Stan said about the Wonder Bar. Best tool you'll get for less than 10 bucks. Amazing destructive power.

[Dave R]

If you're going to buy a saw for cutting flooring, etc may I recommend the DeWalt 12" compound miter saw? I would especially look at their sliding version. I had a Craftsman radial arm saw. I was forever fighting it to get square cuts or consistent miters/bevels. I went through the tuning process several times to make sure it was all set up right. No luck. I know why my brother gave it to me.

The CMS has given me no problems whatsoever. The 12" blade and slider seemed like overkill at first but sure makes it nice for cutting 4x4s as well as wider boards.

The CMS is much more portable than the RAS, too.

Stan has excellent points regarding crowbars (Wonderbar) and knee pads.

[Garrett Lowell]

DonnWest,

Pick up Popular Woodworking's Tool buying guide before you buy anything. You won't be sorry.


[URL=https://www.popularwoodworking.com/store/books/cart.asp?type=m&action=a&magazine=1298]https://www.popularwoodworking.com/store/books/cart.asp?type=m&action=a&magazine=1298[/UR L]

[Wayne Jeffers]

Donn,

What kind of cuts will you need to make on the heart pine flooring/paneling? Unless you're going to be ripping most of it (unlikely, as the proper thing is to use tongue and groove edges for flooring/paneling), I doubt you need a table saw, unless you'll have other uses for it later. For cutting to length, a radial arm saw is the ticket, but a skilsaw will work fine. If you want precise cuts, it's easy to make a crosscut jig for a skilsaw.

I love my tablesaw, but cutoffs are not its forte.

I probably would not buy a power miter saw for cutting trim for only a couple of rooms. Unless you're doing production work, cutting by hand doesn't amount to that much time, so there's not that much potential time-saving. Use a good miter box. You'll spend far more time measuring, fitting and nailing, as compared to cutting.

Wayne

[Donn]

I have sawzall, wonderbar and knee pads.

[Chadd Hamilton]

Sounds like alot of fun, Donn. I just installed about 300 sq ft of (fishished) hardwood floors in my new place, so I kinda know what you've got ahead of you. I borrow a friend's Dewalt compound miter saw and to cut my lenghts and I have a very light-weight 2.5 hp Craftsman table saw used to rip with. It's nice having both so that you don't have to keep readjusting your fence to miter.

The DeWalt was very nice, but it's also very pricey. I'm glad I was able to borrow it. I bought the cheap-o Craftsman tablesaw for boatwork, but it's powerful enough to resaw stock and rip thicker hardwoods.

Be sure to post some pics of your handywork smile.gif

[Donn]

Wayne: The plank will all be T&G, so the only ripping will be final pieces, but there will be alot of 4x8 sheets of subfloor to rip.

I thought about a miter box, but since I'll be doing alot of framing in the boathouse, I thought I'd get more use out of the power cut-off saw. (Definately a CMS, Dave...I'll look at the DeWalt)

[ 08-26-2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]

[Greg H]

I just bought a DeWalt 10" compound Miter saw this spring. I should have done it years ago, handiest tool I have.

[Wayne Jeffers]

Donn,

For 4 X 8 sheets, whether a table saw or a skilsaw is handier depends on a number of things. Table saw is handier if you have repetitive cuts, but it helps to have an oversize table or a helper. For making one-of-a-kind cuts on 4 X 8 panels, I usually grab the skilsaw. Depending on how accurate the cut needs to be, I'll strike a chalk line or clamp on a straightedge guide.

CMS is better for cut-offs, so long as your paneling is not too wide.

Wayne

[Boyd]

I have a Delta 10" compound miter saw that is very handy. It was about $200. It is reasonably accurate, but I have had a few minor allignment problems. Mostly I cant tell if it is me or the saw. My circular saw has been on the shelf since I bought the mitersaw. Well worth the money.

I also recently purchased a Porter Cable "Bammer" finish nailer. THis is the one that uses fuel cells rather then compressed air. I got it for $95 brand new on ebay. It has saved me a bunch of time with trim and panneling work. That thing is really worth the money if you have more then a few rooms to do.

[Donn]

Boyd...glad you mentioned the nailer, because I've also been thinking about them. So many choices...floor nailers that you hit with a hammer, pneumatics, cordless (both types).

Opinions?

[Bruce Hooke]

As others have said, unless you are going to be doing lots of ripping I would skip the tablesaw, unless you are just looking for an excuse to get one. Even for the end pieces on the T&G a tablesaw probably would not be the best way to go because it will almost certainly require a scribe fit rather than a straight line cut, thus ruling out the tablesaw (or it will be a straight line cut that will be hidden by another piece so a rough cut with the circular saw is fine). When I was working in remodeling the tablesaw only came out on rare occasions but the sliding compound miter saw was in use all the time.

A sliding compound miter saw is much the best tool for cutting stuff to length on a job site. I have a Bosch 3915 sliding compound miter saw that I have been quite happy with. The advantage of a sliding saw is, of course, that you can cut much wider boards with it, but you do pay for this advantage in increased cost. However, for what you are doing I think it would be well worth the cost because it sounds like you will have a lot wide of boards to cut to length.

The other tool that I found quite useful for this sort of work was a jigsaw (I have a Bosch). This is good for things like cutting a notch in the subfloor to fit around some obstruction, cutting to scribe fit lines where the curve is too much for the circular saw, and cutting holes in the wall paneling for electrical boxes.

Radial arm saws are good tools for certain jobs but in my opinion you want something more portable for this sort of work. It is much more efficient to be able to have the saw a couple of steps from where you are working rather than having to carry the wood into another room each time you want to cut it. This is especially true of trim work where you often have to do some cut and test and cut again type stuff...

You can, of course, do all of these things with hand tools so it in part comes down to how much you want to spend in dollars to cut down on your time spent doing the job.

[Cedarhill Boatworks]

The backbone of any good shop is a really good table saw, but like someone said unless your looking for an excuse (Who needs an excuse for more tools?) to buy one all you need are a good skilsaw and a miter saw, compound or not. For the money the dewalt 12 inch is the best there is. Stay away from radial arm saws, they are bulky and fiddly and always need tweaking and adjusting. I have a personal safety prejudice against them as well but thats just me. Invest in the best you can afford and you'll never regret it. Knee pads are a must, and take two advil before you start the flooring, don't wait until your legs refuse to bend and your back refuses to straighten.

[Bruce Taylor]

Oh, God...pine flooring. Having installed acres of the stuff in recent years I'd prescribe:

1) a good supply of softwood wedges to take the sweep out of those long planks and bring them up flush to one another (cut them from pine t & g scrap)

2) a mitre saw for the crosscuts, as others have noted

3) a bandsaw for scribed cuts around irregular columns, stone hearths, newel posts and other architectural oddities. (I also use the bandsaw to notch planks for heating vents & such...but I imagine others would find my way cumbersome).

4) a circular saw for sheet underlayment (if you have a TS, fine)

Are you face nailing or driving nails/staples through the tongues? If the latter, I'd rent a compressor and pneumatic floor nailer. The spring-loaded mallet-driven nailers are a pain in the arse.

Of course, it's quite relaxing to sit cross-legged with a box of floor nails, pounding them in by hand. It's easy enough to drive them at a 45 degree angle through the tongues in your planks, and you can listen to the radio while you work (without the damned compressor firing up all the time). However, you do need to finish them off with a nail setter...which means you'll spend half your workday looking around for the bloody thing. Buy five nail setters, and put flourescent tape on 'em.

Oh, and as Cedarhill says, forget the radial arm saw unless somebody is giving you an old Dewalt. The RS is bulky, cranky, inaccurate expensive and (esp. when used for ripping and dadoing) dangerous.

[ 08-26-2002, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[capt jake]

If it hasn't been stated yet, you will probably need a 'toe-kick' saw to cut out the subfloor under cabinet or close to walls. this is assuming htat you leave cabinets in place of course. They can be rented and save a lot of time and trouble. they use about a 3" blase.

It's like a circular saw with a long shaft extension and shoe.

[HiramCarter]

Get a good table saw with a good fence and an expanded table. Good for almost everything - I've even cut circles on mine.

Get a good compound mitre, invaluable for repetitive cross-cuts and bevels.

Get a good worm-drive circular saw and a 12" speed square.

Get a liquid filled mallet and good pair of gloves. Good luck!

Oh yeah, get a large bottle of Advil - for your back.

[stan v]

Here's the difference in a Radial arm saw and a miter saw. Generally, the miter saw is portable, and doesn't have its own workbench attached to handle and support long material. If your intent is to set this saw in some form of permanent location, then you're thinking ok, no need for radial arm saw. Radial arm saw is normally set up for one location, and its purpose is to cut to length, period. However, it does have other uses. You won't see a cabinet maker or trim carpenter without both of these saws. One other point, don't think for a moment a miter saw isn't as dangerous as a radial arm saw. You only have to be careless for about 1/2 second to screw up. Will you be working by yourself? If so, the miter saw with long work area on both sides will suffice. If you have any help, you'll need two saws. One for cutting to length, while someone else is mitering the trim. Once you have a radial arm saw in a permanent location, you won't use anything else for cutting to length. If for no other reason, you will tire of always changing the setting on the miter saw. No matter what cut you wish to make, invaribly the saw will be set for some other angle. We'll talk about floor sanders later. ;)

[Alan D. Hyde]

Ibuprofen is the generic for Advil. Same thing, but much cheaper. Buy a big bottle at WalMart.

To trace the outlines of objects, just tape a stiff piece of paper of the floor next to them, and mark their outline on it with compasses. Just hold the compasses perpendicular to the line of motion as you pull them along the door molding or whatever it is you're tracing.

If you're tracing a curve, then just hold the compasses perpendicular to the chord of the curve as you pull them along.

Cut out the tracings on the stiff paper, and hold it up to the object traced to verify accuracy. Then use the tracings as patterns for the cutting of your floor boards.

An old floatation cushion or two can be used in place of kneepads. More comfy and less awkward.

Alan

[Donn]

Alan...there is already an old flotation cushion in there. smile.gif

Fortunately, there is nothing to lay subfloor or flooring around...all straight lines, and the walls are coming out too, so I'll be pulling the subfloor up instead of cutting it out.

I don't intend to build a shop, because I really have no room for one, so I'm leaning toward all portable tools. The DeWalt 12" sliding compound miter saw has generally good reviews, so that's the current choice. A few reviews said it was difficult or impossible to get a truly square cut, but most disagreed. I'm also looking at the Skil 8 1/4" wormdrive circular saw. I'll use an 8' level, clamped to the ply or OSB subfloor for ripping.

Keep it coming. Is there a pneumatic nailer that will do both framing and finish nailing? Will a 4-6 gallon electric compressor run a nailer? This is just the first of much remodeling, including an almost full restoration of the boathouse.

[capt jake]

Is there a pneumatic nailer that will do both framing and finish nailing? No and,


Will a 4-6 gallon electric compressor run a nailer? Yes, you may have to let it fill for a minute or two (on occasion). I use a 30 galoon tnak and never have to stop.

[cs]

Here is my advice (from the construction industry). Much of it has been said already but here goes anyway.

1) Circular saw fro any sub-floor ripping. It will be much quicker and easier than with a table saw when handling 4x8 sheets

2) Compound miter saw for any crosscuts and miter or bevel cuts. This is so much more accurate and portable than a radial arm saw. If you want to fork out the extra money go for the sliding version and you will never regret it.

3) Screw gun with extension. You will want to screw your sub-floor down. It helps w/ squeking. Don't forget the extension, and than you won't have to bend down.

4) A pnuematic nail gun. If you don't want the hassle of using a comprassor and dragging a hose get a Paslode gas fired nail gun.

Chad

[cs]

You also might want to consider using liquid nails along with screwing your sub-flooring down. There is nothing more annoying than a squeky floor.

Chad

[Donn]

Chad:

"3) Screw gun with extension. You will want to screw your sub-floor down. It helps w/ squeking. Don't forget the extension, and than you won't have to bend down."

Interesting...hadn't thought of screwing the subfloor down. The old one certainly does squeak. Pilot holes needed? I've never seen an extension for a screw gun...what's it got, a magnetic holder? I think I'd be doing it on my knees anyway....can't see well enough to do it standing up. :rolleyes:

Ply or OSB for the subfloor? Marine ply (I live by the water)?

PS...I do plan to use glue on the subfloor.

[ 08-26-2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]

[cs]

The thing now days seems to be OSB. The screw guns I'm talking about are belt feed and there is not really a need for a pilot hole. If your worried about seeing snap a chalk line and you shouldn't have any troubles. You than just walk alone screwing screws down without every having to bend over.

Chad

[rkrough]

I'll let everyone else wax over tools. Most important is you get that pine flooring in the house and distributed to the rooms at least 2 weeks before you use it. If your rooms are under 20' long pay extra and get full length's instead of randoms, the 10-15% up charge is worth it and looks more authentic. when I built my house in 1995 I put in 1260 sqft of heart pine. only screw up I made was I started a room too soon (1 week) after I brought the flooring in. It shrunk so bad the next summer it came out of the grooves, I had to take it up and replace it, BTW laying it was easy. it was the 3200 holes I had to drill and make plugs for that was the back breaker. be careful with the floor nailer the pine will dent if you swing the hammer too hard. Lay rosin paper between the new subfloor and the pine. If you are plugging the floor you will want a industrial plug cutter they cost about 25-30 and make an accurately sized and slightly tapered plug. The cheap ones at hardware stores are useless.
When you do the walls and cieling a narrow crown stapler will save you a lot of time and mashed fingers, you can rent those.
Rich

[gary porter]

Donn, The Dewalt Compound saw is a good choice but be sure to get the sliding one as a fixed miter saw will not cut the width you need. Another note on any miter saw and especially on radial arm saws or sliding saws,,,,get a good quality blade with a negative rake. A standard blade causes the saw to walk or catch the wood and walk toward you at a rapid rate,,,very dangerous. The negative rake blade makes it a whole new saw and even enjoyable to use. Several manufacturers make them, I use Forest but others might be as good. Your sawzall is what you need for correcting mistakes, don't try to make good cuts with that. A good saber saw will do scribed ripping and for the straight rips you could get one of the smaller portable table saws or look for a used saw that you can sell when done. You'd be surprised at how many little jobs get done on the table saw if you have one. You can probably rent a good nailer for whatever job calls for one.
Have fun.....Gary.. smile.gif

[ 08-26-2002, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: gary porter ]

[Bruce Taylor]

BTW, I wouldn't put down 12" planks in summer, if I had a choice. Even recycled antique pine will move (and 12" is a wide board).

If possible, bring the pine indoors and wait until the heat's been on for a few weeks and the RH in your house has dropped 50% (or a bit less).

I've seen pine floors with seasonal gaps you could stick your thumb in.

[Donn]

Rich...I'll be using very old, very well seasoned heart pine, T&G, probably 5/4 thick, and full 20' lengths. 2/3 of the floor is straight for nearly 60'. I was thinking about tongue nailing it with a pneumatic gun. It's probably pretty dry for my climate, so I'll let it sit in the rooms for quite awhile, and it'll probably take up and swell, rather than shrink. It'll be the last step in the process anyway, as I'll work on the subfloor to do the ceiling and walls before the finish floor goes down.

Bruce...this one has me stumped. I live on the water, and the wood in the house (and boat) move a great deal. The pilot house on the boat is winter built, and I can't close the doors in the summer. Now that she's been on the hard for almost a week, the doors close fine.

[Donn]

Bruce...ask the resident meds expert about how propes affect organs like livers and kidneys. I've read bad things about them. I alternate propes and aceta's.

[Greg H]

Donn, the house has heat in the winter drying and shrinking everything. When you pull the boat out of the water it's drying and shrinking, samething but no extra heat sources involved.

Save your back....use one of these standup screwers: http://www.suredrive.com/Suredr3.gif

I just did my mothers bathroom floor and a clients hottub deck, the old hammer and nail way. Then my brother in law shows me his new standup driver and how easy it is. The next deck I do, is going to pay for one. Gravity is getting stronger.

[Bruce Taylor]

How low does the RH drop indoors during the heating season in your area? Given your climate, you might be better off to build at 60% or so.

Up here at the frozen perimeter of the civilized world, my hygrometer scrapes 30% in January. If I build a door or lay a floor at 50%, it will shrink a bit; if I build in August, when 90% RH is the norm, it will shrink a LOT.

This doesn't matter, when you're installing a strip floor. However, 12 inches is a lot of wood. Old wood moves a bit less, but it moves.

Maybe somebody else can put exact numbers to it. (There is plenty of wood tech. data out there, in Bruce Hoadley's texts, and elsewhere). Whatever I'm building -- guitars, cabinets, chests, doors, floors -- I try to allow for 30% swings in humidity, keeping in mind that shrinkage is almost always more ugly and damaging than swelling. I've never seen a buckled pine floor, but I've seen plenty of shrunken ones.

[ 08-26-2002, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Taylor ]

[reddog]

don;Good advice on saws,etc. Just a note on your installation technique.Make sure you pull the baseboard and cut door casings and jambs to allow the flooring to run under.Do not scribe fit it to the walls.Instead leave a minimun half inch gap all around and cover with the base and trim.Don't fasten the base or trim to the flooring.It will move and needs the space.Here in the Maritimes I have seen pine floors buckle due to humidity.My ash flooring is real tight right now but come winter with the wood stove a cookin' it will open up to a quarter inch in spots.
Bruce's advice for the softwood wedges is well taken and check out a pneumatic floor stapler.Anything over 4 or 5 inches in width should be bored,screwed and plugged otherwise it will lift.Ditto for the rosin paper beneath the finish floor and the knee pads.

[Bruce Taylor]

Here in the Maritimes I have seen pine floors buckle due to humidity.Ah, well there you are. Earl, I'd wager your climate is a lot more like Donn's than mine.

[Ron Williamson]

I've seen a coupla buckled pine floors but they're rare.White pine will compress beyond it's elastic limit and then shrink later,leaving gaps.Heart probly won't(might even push the walls off the house though.Try that for a morning eye-opener :eek: )
I would imagine that the humidity in your marine neighbourhood would stay quite high during most of the year.If you laid the floor during the fall,after the heat's been on for a bit(to repeat other's advice)it would be about mid range for humidity and I would expect few problems,BUT it is WOOD,it WILL move.

If you have a compressor,get air nailers.Otherwise think seriously about cordless gas.
Have fun
R

[Bruce Taylor]

Donn, I've deleted my comments re. Ibuprofen. I have no business recommending NSAID dosages to a guy who has passed 200 kidney stones.

Anyway, Maggie's in Vermont today, so I can't ask her about it.

I gather the anti-inflammatory effects of Advil (helpful in reducing swelling in damaged tissues in yr. lower back, knees, etc.) kick in at higher dosages than the analgesic effects. But, then, I'm not the kind of guy who curls up with a good toxicity nomogram...so I'll jes' shaddup.

[capt jake]

I gather the anti-inflammatory effects of Advil (helpful in reducing swelling in damaged tissues in yr. lower back, knees, etc.) kick in at higher dosages than the analgesic effects. But, then, I'm not the kind of guy who curls up with a good toxicity nomogram. Just remember your kidneys!! Or say goodbye, what ever suits.

[reddog]

Bruce;
The big problem here is the variation in the humidity from summer to winter.For example,two weeks ago the RH was 70-90%.When we start heating it will drop drastically.Difficult to maintain a tight floor.The pine used is mostly white pine which probably moves more than heart pine,but as stated above it is wood and it will move.Also, most of the real problems have been in houses that are seasonally used and not fully heated during the winter.Other factors such as the moisture content of the wood and the time of year play a big part also.I'm sure as an instrument maker you could tell some stories of wood moving.
How's the sailing coming,are you getting on the river much?
All the best;Earl

[Pete Dorr]

One more vote for the Dewalt 12" and a few links on using your circular saw to cut sheet goods.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00035.asp

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1104

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by gary porter:
Donn, The Dewalt Compound saw is a good choice but be sure to get the sliding one as a fixed miter saw will not cut the width you need. Another note on any miter saw and especially on radial arm saws or sliding saws,,,,get a good quality blade with a negative rake. A standard blade causes the saw to walk or catch the wood and walk toward you at a rapid rate,,,very dangerous. The negative rake blade makes it a whole new saw and even enjoyable to use. Several manufacturers make them, I use Forest but others might be as good. Your sawzall is what you need for correcting mistakes, don't try to make good cuts with that. A good saber saw will do scribed ripping and for the straight rips you could get one of the smaller portable table saws or look for a used saw that you can sell when done. You'd be surprised at how many little jobs get done on the table saw if you have one. You can probably rent a good nailer for whatever job calls for one.
Have fun.....Gary.. smile.gif Please don't take offense but it sounds like you're not using the saw correctly. On a sliding compound miter saw you should slide the blade forward, drop it down, and then push it back through the board. This will prevent it from grabbing and jumping towards you. Of course if the board is narrow enough to cut without the sliding action you can just lock the carriage and cut the board by simply dropping the blade through it. What you should NOT do is drop the blade into the wood and then pull it towards you... - Bruce

[Boyd]

Don,

To followup on your question about pnumatic vrs gas nailers. I chose a gas powered unit because I do not have a compressor and I don't want to buy one. If I had any need for a compressor I would have gone pneumatic. I bought a Porter-Cable Bammer because I like there tools, a friend in the buisness gave it high marks and I found one very cheap. Porter-Cable makes 3 Bammer models. A finish nailer, crown moulding stapler and brad nailer. Pasload has a gas powered framing nailer, but I bet it is expensive. Someone I know has one and loves it (he does alot of remote site work). I would say that your best bet is to buy a compressor and a pneumatic framing nailer, if you are dead set on using power tools to do the job.

Have you considered renting? At my local hardware store I could probally get a compressor and a framing nailer for $100 a day.

[gary porter]

Bruce,, no offense taken,, I do not own a sliding miter saw but would like to someday. I do own a radial arm saw but don't use it anymore, just takes up too much room in the shop and nowadays I do most of my rough cutting with a Bosch Saber saw. When I was using the radial I did make the change of blades and it made a world of difference. I've seen people use a radial arm saw the same way you mentioned using the sliding saw but it never looked like a good situation. An even worse situation is that of the Ohsa folks want the radial arm saw to automatically retractl. Bad news. Anyway thanks for the comment on the sliding saw.
Gary

[Donn]

Originally posted by Pete Dorr:
One more vote for the Dewalt 12" and a few links on using your circular saw to cut sheet goods.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00035.asp

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/features/fea.asp?id=1104Pete...thanks for the links...the Taunton Press article is excellent!

[Cedarhill Boatworks]

Excallent point about using the sliding miter saw. More guys chew up more good trim by pulling the saw through the work instead of pushing the blade through the work.
Paslode makes a very good gas nailer that will accept barbed nails suitable for flooring. Comparatively speaking its not all that expensive. I have pneumatic nailers and a Paslode gun. The nice thing about the Paslode is the lack of hose. The only disadvantages are the noise and the exhaust. The noise is bothersome, I wear sofplugs in my ears all the time. It is necesary to keep a window open because the gun produces exhaust that will quickly make you dizzy and sick in a close environment. Go to a good tool shop and heft the assorted nailers for a few minutes. Buy the one that feels the best to you. I lioke Porter Cable nailers. Some guys swear by Paslode or Senco. I can't stand Senco, but I'm a wierd guy.

[John of Phoenix]

Donn, that saw guide from Fine Woodworking is one SLICK idea. I just used one to rough cut some plywood for some cabinets I'm making. When I ran the parts thru the table saw for the final cut, I was so impressed with the accuracy of the rough cut, that I dispensed with the rough cut and used the guide for the final cut. Very handy!

Speaking of handy, I've been trying to find plans for a clever dolly for moving plywood and can't remember where I saw it. Anyone have any ideas for single-handing sheets of plywood.

[Donn]

John...I'm going to make one or the other. The Taunton Press version uses masonite for the base, which is much smoother for a slicker saw slide.

Duluth trading:

http://www.duluthtrading.com/

Troll Cart

http://www.duluthtrading.com/images/p35108X.JPG

Pocket Troll

http://www.duluthtrading.com/images/p35109X.JPG

Of course, you could spend less by buying an old-fashioned clamp-on roller skate, and fit it to a rack.

[ 08-27-2002, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: donnwest ]

[Dave Fleming]

O&O East, that is one the fun(s) of woodworking and similar pursuits.
Making the tools/jigs to do the job.
I knew a fellow who after working in a big LA furniture plant( before the clean air types drove that industry out of the area) who learned production woodworking jig making from an old timer and when he left to set up his own shop liked nothing more than to figure out a jig or fixture to make some process go easier.
In fact he was so wrapped up in the jig making that he put a line of planking around the full walls of his shop and put dowels every so far and hung the jigs on them so everyone could see jigs when they came in the rather large shop. Sorta like the Shakers would hang most everything to keep the floor uncluttered.

[Donn]

I make jigs, too, O&O West...but they have lead heads, sharp hooks and pretty feathers on 'em. :D

[Dave Fleming]

LOL!

But do ya hang 'em around your den?

[Donn]

Only when the paint's drying. I do, however, usually decorate a Christmas tree with fishing lures.

[whb]

Donn,

The tool comments above pretty much cover the waterfront. Re the jig for the circular saw.

A simple one can be made by glue and screwing a very straight piece of wood to a piece of scrap plywood that is as long as your longest cut.

Set your saw up for a perfect 90 degree cut with the blade you will be using. Then run the saw along the straight board cutting through the plywood. Then to use the jig you just clamp it or screw it to whatever you are cutting with the plywood lined up with your cut marks. Over time it will get a little rough but its not expensive to make another one.

Howard

PS I have a table saw but big plywood cuts on it give me the willies. A buddy hit his hand with a dado blade. Need I say more.

[Ed Harrow]

Donn - a day late and dollars short... I once floored off a portion of a carriage house I used to own using 2" T&G hard pine as decking and 4x6 as joists. Did the nailing by hand and had to drill for each and every one. Perhaps, using a floor nailer, you might avoid that...

[Ron Williamson]

Personally,I would avoid the beaver barf OSB,in favour of plywood,for your sub-floor,especially in a bathroom or kitchen.Mostly because of long term moisture issues,and partly because I hate the smell.
R

[David Tabor (sailordave)]

Donn:

Dewalt 12" miter saw is a must! And unless the flooring is greater than 8" wide don't bother w/ the sliding miter saw; it's not worth the extra $$$ You should be able to get the regular 12" for $299, maybe less if you find a sale.

The Bammer is a great tool for doing trim!

I just got (another) Wonder Bar; as someone said, one of the best tools for under $10!

We laid 2200 sq.ft of 3,4,5 inch oak in our house and I ached for weeks so Advil or generic is another must have! Also, get some oak and cut low tapered wedges of various sizes; great for fitting planks up against the wall where you can't swing a hammer.

For the project you describe don't get the table saw. Get a heavy duty circ. saw though. Worm drive is great; I have a 10 y.o. SAWCAT from B/D. 8.25" but I haven't seen them for a while...

Oh and build a long skinny table rest for laying flooring/trim etc on when you use the miter saw. Wish I had a dig. cam. I'd send you a pic of the one I made for my shop and screwed it down to a pc of 3/4" ply. I then screwed down cleats cut to fit the bottom of the miter saw so I can force it in or pull (hard) and take it out w/o using fasteners! Lines up everytime!

[Scott Rosen]

I agree that the circular saw for the subfloor and a sliding mitre/chop saw for the trim and flooring makes the most sense. But where I'm hung up is that neither of those will be very useful in boatbuilding or repair. What are you going to do with those tools after you finish the remodelling?

A table saw isn't ideal for cutting big sheets of plywood, but you'll have lots of uses for it after you're done with this project.

On the other hand, if you're looking for an excuse to buy lots of tools, then go for the circular saw and the chop box and the table saw, and while you're at it you can get a jointer and a planer for milling your own flooring. A cutter/shaper or router and table for cutting your own moldings. There must be something you use a band saw for . . .

[cs]

Let me add a few comments about the worm drive circular saw. They are a nice saw and have plenty of power with the downside being that they are heavy. Our guys that have a worm drive tend to use it for cutting dimensional stock. With something like a 2x6 you tilt the board up a little bit and let gravity and the weight of the saw so the cutting.

I think with cutting 4x8 sheets you would not want a heavy circular saw, but you would want one with a good strong motor. When you go to buy one you need to handle the worm drive a little, maybe if the let you try one out. Make some cuts with it and see what you think.

As far as jigs go you should be able to make a good enough cut, for sub-flooring, by just following a chalk line.

Chad

[Donn]

David..I think I'll get the 12" slider. I'll need it when I restore the boathouse. I'll be using pretty brawny timbers. SWMBO hasn't decided about plank width in the house yet.

Scott..the house remodel and boathouse restore will take me at least 5 years. After that, the tools won't owe me anything. Besides, both will be useful in boat repair...replacing the cockpit deck and reworking the wheelhouse.

As far as all the other stuff...I really don't have a place for a woodshop.

[Andrew J. McGrorty]

donn,
this may seem a little bit from left field but i have pretty much given up on the 7 1/4 inch circular saw for a makita 3 1/8 portable when i am cutting sheet goods. with 2 batteries i can pretty much go all day. it comes with a fence attachment, narrow kerf carbide blade.
it is incredibly lightweight and quiet, and cuts a precision straight line. obviously won't cut all the way through a 2x4 but on plywood it's really sweet. andy

[Donn]

Andy...again, for use in restoring the boathouse, I can't see buying a circular saw that won't cut 2x material. I looked at the specs on a Makita 3 3/8 cordless, and compared them to the Skil 8 1/4" wormdrive. The Makita's no-load blade speed is 1,000 rpm, compared to 4,300 on the Skil...and the Skil will do 45 degree bevels on 2x's, while the Makita won't cut thru 1" at 90 degrees.

When I bought the Ryobi cordless drill, I looked at a trimsaw that the were selling in a kit with the drill, but decided that while the cordless saw would be a handy gadget, it wouldn't do the work I need it to do.

I had an interesting side-by-side comparison of my new drill and a corded Milwaukee Magnum yesterday. Using a steel brush wheel on my rudders and shaft struts, I wore out both 18v batteries for the Ryobi in just over 2 hours. I had forgotten to bring the charger to the yard, so I used one of the yard's drills. Even though the Ryobi is pretty torquey for a cordless, the difference in power with the Holeshooter was amazing. They both did the job, but the Milwaukee did it much faster.

I think that strength issue would be even more apparent in a circular saw.