View Full Version : ash
04-28-2005, 01:35 PM
has anybody used ash when laminating up stems for an oughtred design (whilly boat).results?
04-28-2005, 01:50 PM
I have not used ash for that purpose but the basic rundown on ash is:
1. It bends well. Good!
2. It glues well. Also Good!
3. It's strong. Also Good!
4. It rots very easily. REALLY REALLY BAD on boats!
Thus it is usually used on boats that are dry sailed (stored under cover when not in use)...
04-28-2005, 01:56 PM
Ash bends good. I laminated stems on my Oughtred MacGregor with it because I had some in the shop already. There are better choices though, particulary for rot resistance. Its hard to find a better species for bending IMO, but plenty others will bend well: White oak, beech, hickory, walnut, birch, and elm.
04-28-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by john denunzio:
has anybody used ash when laminating up stems for an oughtred design (whilly boat).results?Yes but, not the Willy Boat. Why do you ask?
04-29-2005, 09:09 AM
i have some ash. i thought if i could use it i could save some $. i do not want to cause long term problems for myself or the boat. the boat will always be dry sailed so that would be a mitigating factor for the rot/decay question. your thoughts norm ( and others)?
04-29-2005, 09:16 AM
Ash rots quickly. So does spruce.
I use Doug Fir and White Oak heartwoods for the same reasons I use bronze and copper fastenings.
You are in White Oak/Black Locust/Sassafras/Black Walnut country...I'd save the ash for oars.
[ 04-29-2005, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]
04-29-2005, 09:39 AM
While ash is less rot resistant it depends on how it will be used. Will the hull be epoxy/glass composite? If so I'd probably use it if it were on hand as you say. It may glue better with epoxy than oak, some say, so you pays yer money and ya makes yer choices. My boats live in the hangar and get wet only when I use them (DUH!) so rot is not a concern.
04-29-2005, 10:09 AM
Gander at all the derelicts in your local yards and picture your boat at that age.
Sometime later in its life that boat is gonna be left out to deteriorate with little protective finish left and well-worn and well-perforated glass sheathing, if that's how you build it.
With my builder's plate on it, I want mine to be the one derelict of many chosen for restoration...chosen because of the durability of materials I used, the excellent joinery, and the forethought I gave toward repairability.
That's why Lawton, Spurling, Dion and the other small shops of old garner so much respect today....not just because they made pretty boats. For every Charles Lawton and Fred Dion there are hundreds of gents you never heard of because their equally-pretty boats are now minute traces of humus and iron oxide in a tide flat somewhere.
And with today's proliferation of excellent designs, modern tools, better glue and easily-obtained construction guidance, the difference in money and time between choices "A" and "B" is minuscule.
[ 04-29-2005, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]
04-29-2005, 05:18 PM
I agree with Bob.
Ash is probably the strongest timber amongst commonly available Northern temperate hardwoods.
In the open air, it does not do badly. It is the wood of choice for tillers, anf for block shells, due to its strengh and shock resistance; it steam bends very easily, BUT...
If you are into vintage cars, reflect on how many ash frame bodies you know that have NOT been rebuilt. The answer is usually "none" and these are cars that have lived in garages and been fussed over for decades.
04-29-2005, 05:28 PM
thanks for taking me to school and kicking my ash right out the door boys.
my backbone and stems will spared from an ignominious death, abandoned on a mud flat in some distant future time!
Cherry? i've got a bunch of that too! comments...
04-30-2005, 09:24 PM
Again, oak or locust. (!)
04-30-2005, 11:00 PM
Ditto, ditto, ditto. For that use, the options are white oak, white oak, or white oak, or black locust if all the white oak should suddenly disappear.
04-30-2005, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Bayboat:
Ditto, ditto, ditto. For that use, the options are white oak, white oak, or white oak, or black locust if all the white oak should suddenly disappear.I would reverse that order. There are folks in your neighborhood with Woodmizers who might be milling black locust in the morning. Monday for sure.
Save the cherry for the pretty bits that show.
In the Swamp. :D
05-03-2005, 05:18 PM
Yep, black locust is a viable option if it's much more easily available locally than white oak.
05-04-2005, 11:17 AM
With all this talk of which wood for ribs, what is the opinion of Elm for ribs?
I ask because that is what was often used on all wood canoes from the Peterbough area and I'm dreaming about building one. (and possibly have an option on some fresh cut/sawed elm.
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