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Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 07:27 AM
500 children and teenagers die from gunshots every year. An increase of 60% in the past decade.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/terrible-tally-500-children-dead-gunshots-every-year-7-500-8C11469222

Ian McColgin
10-31-2013, 07:50 AM
If a physician shares this article with a patient he knows has kids, that physician is breaking Florida state law.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 07:51 AM
i think we need a dedicated gun safety thread

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 07:54 AM
i think we need a dedicated gun safety thread

Damn Paul, you know there is no such thing as gun safety!!!

Flying Orca
10-31-2013, 07:56 AM
Eternal child deaths are the price of freedom. Or wait, maybe that's "vigilance", I can't remember anymore.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 07:58 AM
Damn Paul, you know there is no such thing as gun safety!!!

All kidding aside, the underlying theme of the OP's article is handguns. As much as I liked to shoot in a younger life, I could live without handguns... Part of why my lil' sis calls me a commie pinko freak.

Cheers,

Bobby

Flying Orca
10-31-2013, 08:04 AM
All kidding aside, the underlying theme of the OP's article is handguns. As much as I liked to shoot in a younger life, I could live without handguns... Part of why my lil' sis calls me a commie pinko freak.

I'm with you. I love shooting handguns, but I'm really glad I live in a country where they are heavily restricted.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:09 AM
All kidding aside, the underlying theme of the OP's article is handguns. As much as I liked to shoot in a younger life, I could live without handguns... Part of why my lil' sis calls me a commie pinko freak.

Cheers,

BobbyI'm a firearms enthusiast. I appreciate and own and shoot and enjoy and collect many types of guns in a variety of ways, from sporting clays, to small and large game hunting, to target shooting, to restoration and repair. I'm completely baffled how any reasonable additional restrictions on firearms ownership, including licensing and mandatory background checks for all firearms purchases and requirements for safe and secure storage would affect me in any noticeable negative way. There's much more to firearms safety and responsible firearms ownership and promotion than just this:
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET (and are ready to fire on that target)
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET



keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, and children should come first; by definition they are incapable of following the above four rules

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 08:23 AM
Eventually one of your "many" guns may kill an innocent child, whether it be one you've sold, lost to theft or bequeathed.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 08:26 AM
I'm a firearms enthusiast. I appreciate and own and shoot and enjoy and collect many types of guns in a variety of ways, from sporting clays, to small and large game hunting, to target shooting, to restoration and repair. I'm completely baffled how any reasonable additional restrictions on forearms ownership, including licensing and mandatory background checks for all firearms purchases would affect me in any noticeable way. There's much more to firearms safety and responsible firearms ownership and promotion than just this:

keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, and children should come first; by definition they are incapable of following the above four rules

Agreed. But how do you do that if they are still easily attainable by the semi-criminal folks. Those more than willing to have their handgun "stolen" and end up on the black market. Yeah, they are criminals but they will never get caught in the current world. In the rural world where folks tend toward libertarian those folks are pretty common. Just a thought.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:30 AM
Eventually one of your "many" guns may kill an innocent child, whether it be one you've sold, lost to theft or bequeathed.so i take what precautions i can, i keep them locked up to minimize theft, if i sell one i do so through a firearms dealer and have a background check performed

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 08:34 AM
Today we supposedly show our kindness to children by giving them candy.

If one really cares about children, take a gun out of your collection and render it incapable of ever killing another child.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:35 AM
In the rural world where folks tend toward libertarian those folks are pretty common.I believe you have the market for such guns exactly reversed. You are much more likely to find such a gun on the street in a place like Baltimore or LA than one that was procured in the same way via a rural straw purchase. As a matter of fact I believe statistical, Baltimore far outstrips any other area in the country for straw purchases, and it centered around just a few gun stores and gun shows.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:36 AM
Today we supposedly show our kindness to children by giving them candy.

If one really cares about children, take a gun out of your collection and render it incapable of ever killing another child.

lets assume i was willing to do so, are you willing to pay me a fair market price to take such an action?

i might suggest that i'm not the type of gun owner that contributes to the problem of gun safety in america, you'd make a far greater impact on reducing gun deaths to children by making a donation to gabby giffords' organization, Americans for Responsible Solutions, than you will by reducing my gun collection by one firearm. . .

John Smith
10-31-2013, 08:39 AM
It's the second amendment, as we've wrongfully interpreted it, at work.

You cannot change this. Live with it, or die with it.

Remember, this is the country that we think every other country should follow.

Canoez
10-31-2013, 08:40 AM
Addendum to Rule #4 - and what's behind/around your target.

Canoez
10-31-2013, 08:42 AM
Rule #5 - always be sure your firearm and ammunition are in good, working order and are safe to use/transport.
Rule #6 - never handle a firearm that you don't know how to clear/check the action until you know how to do so.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 08:44 AM
I believe you have the market for such guns exactly reversed. You are much more likely to find such a gun on the street in a place like Baltimore or LA than one that was procured in the same way via a rural straw purchase. As a matter of fact I believe statistical, Baltimore far outstrips any other area in the country for straw purchases, and it centered around just a few gun stores and gun shows.

I do believe I've met some of the sources for the easy guns in Chicago, they are scattered all over Illinois (which considers Chicago a different state). There are certainly some contributor gun shops, but they aren't the only source. Everything has a price, including a "stolen" gun. Can't tell you about Maryland...

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:46 AM
Addendum to Rule #4 - and what's behind/around your target.part of rule #2

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 08:47 AM
It's the second amendment, as we've wrongfully interpreted it, at work.

You cannot change this. Live with it, or die with it.

Remember, this is the country that we think every other country should follow.

Like it or not the 2nd amendment means exactly what the SCOTUS says it means. Nothing more, nothing less.

Canoez
10-31-2013, 08:49 AM
part of rule #2 You could say that, but I always think the rules should be "explicit". Things to the side of your target could be fodder for ricochet, etc. The range I grew up using was prone to rocks. Before the first round of the day, the rangemaster would hand everybody a rake to go check the backstop for hard objects. Was a sobering lesson for a little kid to see what was there.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:49 AM
Everything has a price, including a "stolen" gun.

I agree. So what reasonable restriction might we suggest to minimize 'straw purchases'?

Registration? Personally I'm not too much in favour of this, but its probably the single most effective method.
Limit the number of guns an individual can purchase in any one year?
Other thoughts?

John Smith
10-31-2013, 08:54 AM
Like it or not the 2nd amendment means exactly what the SCOTUS says it means. Nothing more, nothing less.

My point exactly. Even sincere efforts to change the way we sell/buy guns is apt to be ruled unconstitutional by this court. Even if one passes and is upheld, by then they'll be nearly half a billion guns in the public's hands. Trying to change the course is a fool's errand.

Better to spend the money and time making schools, malls, etc. much more difficult to get weapons into.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 08:55 AM
I agree. So what reasonable restriction might we suggest to minimize 'straw purchases'?

Registration? Personally I'm not too much in favour of this, but its probably the single most effective method.
Limit the number of guns an individual can purchase in any one year?
Other thoughts?

Another fool's errand. How you going to register all the guns already sold? I got pretty much laughed at when I suggested we step in when the gun owner dies. Gun owners are mortal; guns are not.

This is a problem we willing created, and there is no way to end it.

Even legally bought and registered guns: are you going to have random searches to insure they're stored out of the reach of children?

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 08:56 AM
i think we need a dedicated gun safety thread

I tried that once and got savaged for it...

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 08:59 AM
i knew that bait would be irresistible

John Smith
10-31-2013, 08:59 AM
I tried that once and got savaged for it...

Let me ask you this. Give us the highlights of ENFORCEABLE regulations you might write. I don't see any reason to think any gun laws will be any more effective than our drug laws are or prohibition was.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 09:02 AM
I agree. So what reasonable restriction might we suggest to minimize 'straw purchases'?

Registration? Personally I'm not too much in favour of this, but its probably the single most effective method.
Limit the number of guns an individual can purchase in any one year?
Other thoughts?

You want my honest opinion? There is only one stance that will significantly reduce handgun deaths in the US. And that is to follow the Canadian model and severely restrict handgun ownership. Make it target shooting only with a range membership requirement, etc. No carry, period. Would take decades to have the desired effect. You and I both know how likely that is to happen...

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:04 AM
another very dangerous thing 'we' are actively doing is making gun safety (I'm thinking of public schools) a forbidden topic. when the police are called because a child points his finger and says bang, that very action is a major contributing factor to the danger of uninformed tragedies caused by fear of education about guns.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 09:06 AM
You want my honest opinion? There is only one stance that will significantly reduce handgun deaths in the US. And that is to follow the Canadian model and severely restrict handgun ownership. Make it target shooting only with a range membership requirement, etc. No carry, period. Would take decades to have the desired effect. You and I both know how likely that is to happen...

How do you plan to do that in a country where there are nearly 300 million handguns already "out there?"

Do think an individual capable of shooting someone has any scruples about his gun being illegal?

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 09:06 AM
another very dangerous thing 'we' are actively doing is making gun safety (I'm thinking of public schools) a forbidden topic. when the police are called because a child points his finger and says bang, that very action is a major contributing factor to the danger of uninformed tragedies caused by fear of education about guns.

That isn't dangerous, it's just stupid.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 09:08 AM
You want my honest opinion? There is only one stance that will significantly reduce handgun deaths in the US. And that is to follow the Canadian model and severely restrict handgun ownership. Make it target shooting only with a range membership requirement, etc. No carry, period. Would take decades to have the desired effect. You and I both know how likely that is to happen...


How do you plan to do that in a country where there are nearly 300 million handguns already "out there?"

Do think an individual capable of shooting someone has any scruples about his gun being illegal?

Read carefully, it would take decades.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 09:09 AM
I have a question that someone might have the answer to. I grew up when kids pretty much all had cap pistols. We had great fun shooting each other with them. How did this impact gun violence as my generation grew into adulthood?

John Smith
10-31-2013, 09:12 AM
Read carefully, it would take decades.

I don't think it would work if you allowed it 300 years. All the guns will still be around. Unless/until you pass legislation that allows you to physically take guns out of the hands of the people, the guns last forever. A man dies with a collection of 8 guns. Sometimes the family may turn them over to the police. Sometimes the family will keep or sell them. They never wear out, and unless the police BUY them at a reasonable price, selling them becomes far more attractive.

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:12 AM
Let me ask you this. Give us the highlights of ENFORCEABLE regulations you might write. I don't see any reason to think any gun laws will be any more effective than our drug laws are or prohibition was.

John, it's pointless to speak to you about this topic... you think you are very clever to have noticed 'keep' as some overlooked word in the nations laws and documents.
There's VOLUMES of misinformation dreamed up by sluths such as yourself...

remember, the topic is/was SAFETY not regulations... go and count just how many posts it took to de-rail gun safety as a topic... it's hopeless. as soon as 'gun' is entered into a conversation, everyone begins picking his own navel lint... with the obvious exception of the gang of twenty who pick each others' navel lint...

John Smith
10-31-2013, 09:16 AM
I hate being the pessimist, or, IMO, the realist, but if you give thought to the powers the government would NEED to go down any of these paths with success, they are powers the government isn't going to get.

As I asked earlier, how, sans unannounced visits, can we be sure guns are properly kept out of the reach of children, or other family members, and/or their friends?

I don't think you can.

We can, if we choose, make it more difficult to bring a gun into public places. That would still leave the outside at risk, but malls, schools, theaters, restaurants, etc. could be made considerably safer.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 09:24 AM
I don't think it would work if you allowed it 300 years. All the guns will still be around. Unless/until you pass legislation that allows you to physically take guns out of the hands of the people, the guns last forever. A man dies with a collection of 8 guns. Sometimes the family may turn them over to the police. Sometimes the family will keep or sell them. They never wear out, and unless the police BUY them at a reasonable price, selling them becomes far more attractive.

For starters, the only guns that matter statistically are handguns. And of those the worst are those in the hands of criminals. As those are used in crimes they would come out of service. Yes it would take time, but you would see progress at the end of one decade, significant progress at the end of two.

Except for the fact that the American public is too stupid to give it a try. They'd rather have people die.

Bobby

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:29 AM
For starters, the only guns that matter statistically are handguns. And of those the worst are those in the hands of criminals. As those are used in crimes they would come out of service. Yes it would take time, but you would see progress at the end of one decade, significant progress at the end of two.

Except for the fact that the American public is too stupid to give it a try. They'd rather have people die.

Bobby

you'll need to seperate handguns from the op then... so far it includes even cops shooting children carrying BB guns

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 09:32 AM
For starters, the only guns that matter statistically are handguns. And of those the worst are those in the hands of criminals. As those are used in crimes they would come out of service. Yes it would take time, but you would see progress at the end of one decade, significant progress at the end of two.

Except for the fact that the American public is too stupid to give it a try. They'd rather have people die.

Bobby


you'll need to seperate handguns from the op then... so far it includes even cops shooting children carrying BB guns

Reading comprehension really does matter.

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:33 AM
also... it must be broken down by the 'child's' age... the cdc considers 19 year olds as 'children'

switters
10-31-2013, 09:33 AM
What is the one thing we can we do/stop doing to save the most lives?

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 09:37 AM
also... it must be broken down by the 'child's' age... the cdc considers 19 year olds as 'children'

now you're just playing games


What is the one thing we can we do/stop doing to save the most lives?

link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx8LAFSY3Ws)

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:39 AM
now you're just playing games



exactly!

http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationalchildmortalitydata.htm

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 09:43 AM
What is the one thing we can we do/stop doing to save the most lives?

In my opinion, outlaw handguns. Barring that, say a prayer to whatever god you do or don't believe in.

Yeah, I really have turned into a commie pinko freak...

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:45 AM
I can't get the pic to come out right so click on the link I've posted to get a better idea



Number and Rate of Child Deaths, per 100,000 Population (2007)
Total Child Population Number of Child Deaths Child Mortality Rate
(Ages 0-19)
82,304,668 53,287 64.7

Infant Mortality Number and Rate, per 1,000 Live Births (2007)
Number of Live Births Number of Infant Deaths Infant Mortality Rate
(Ages 0-1)
4,273,543 29,138 6.8

Selected Causes of Death, Ages 0-19, per 100,000 Population (2007)
Cause Number of Deaths Mortality Rate
Natural 36,272 44.1
Perinatal Conditions 14,570 17.7
Congenital Anomalies 6,896 8.4
Neoplasms 2,302 2.8
Respiratory Disease 1,442 1.8
Circulatory Disease 1,666 2.0
Nervous System Disease 1,609 2.0
SIDS 2,453 3.0
Unintentional Injury 11,560 14.0
Motor Vehicle 6,683 8.1
Drowning 1,056 1.3
Fire/Burn 544 0.7
Poisoning 972 1.2
Suffocation/Strangulation 1,263 1.5
Firearm 138 0.2
Homicide 3,345 4.1
Firearm 2,186 2.7
Suicide 1,665 2.0
Firearm 683 0.8
Suffocation/Strangulation 739 0.9
Poisoning 133 0.2

Source: National Center for Health Statistics
Rates based on 20 or fewer deaths may be unstable. Use with caution.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 09:48 AM
http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationalchildmortalitydata.htmSo you're level of comfort and acceptability in firearms fatalities depending upon how they represented to you statistically?

How 'bout this number? 445 people died last year in Arkansas from gunshots? You good with that?

How 'bout this number? Arkansas ranks fourth in the nation in gun deaths per capita, you good with that?

Phillip Allen
10-31-2013, 09:50 AM
So you're level of comfort and acceptability in firearms fatalities depending upon how they represented to you statistically?

How 'bout this number? 445 people died last year in Arkansas from gunshots? You good with that?

How 'bout this number? Arkansas ranks fourth in the nation in gun deaths per capita, you good with that?

have you given up on the 'children' thing now?

BrianW
10-31-2013, 09:54 AM
Phillip is right in the fact this is another report that calls 18, 19, and 20 year old adults "children'.

From the article...


During that period, hospitalizations of kids and teens aged 20 and younger from gunshot wounds jumped from 4,270 to 7,730. Firearm deaths of children logged by hospitals rose from 317 in 1997 to 503 in 2009, records showed.

I'm always at a loss for a good reason why such educated people would skew their research with misinformation.

No, not really. I know exactly why.

BrianY
10-31-2013, 09:55 AM
How 'bout we don't worry so much about the guns but restrict and regulate ammunition and ammo reloading supply purchases?

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 09:55 AM
It's not nearly as complicated as you mericans make it out to be.

Save a child being injured by a firearm=eliminate a gun.

Save a child from being killed by a firearm=eliminate ten guns.

Steve McMahon
10-31-2013, 09:55 AM
You want my honest opinion? There is only one stance that will significantly reduce handgun deaths in the US. And that is to follow the Canadian model and severely restrict handgun ownership. Make it target shooting only with a range membership requirement, etc. No carry, period. Would take decades to have the desired effect. You and I both know how likely that is to happen...

Agreed. We would like this approach because it would significantly reduce the number of handguns that come across our porous borders into the hands of criminals in Canada.

The best time to plant a tree is yesterday. The second best time is today.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 09:55 AM
have you given up on the 'children' thing now?you do this every single time the subject comes up, and you think you're so clever;

you never ever address the question of gun violence and safety, you just to try to play around the outside of the issue spinning and playing with numbers. . .

Forget the statistics for a moment, do you think we have a gun violence problem in america? its a yes or no question.

If no, then go find another thread to play on. If yes, then what do you think should be done to address it?

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 09:56 AM
I hear the smoking age is being raised to 21.

Paul Pless
10-31-2013, 09:57 AM
How 'bout we don't worry so much about the guns but restrict and regulate ammunition and ammo reloading supply purchases?warning language alert
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuX-nFmL0II)

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 10:00 AM
Phillip is right in the fact this is another report that calls 18, 19, and 20 year old adults "children'.

From the article...



I'm always at a loss for a good reason why such educated people would skew their research with misinformation.

No, not really. I know exactly why.

Does that really matter to their family when they are dead? Seriously, does it really matter???

You have to pick limits somewhere. But I have a 21 year old and a 17 year old, it would not matter to me, the loss of either would be absolutely devastating.

The issue isn't how old kids are when they get killed, its that they get killed. Some of you people are obtuse, to be polite.

BrianW
10-31-2013, 10:03 AM
Forget the statistics for a moment, do you think we have a gun violence problem in america? its a yes or no question.

I was under the impression most gun related child deaths were accidents.

That is, real children, not the young adults included in the study, which were probably gang related violence.

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 10:03 AM
The best time to plant a tree is yesterday. The second best time is today.

The best time to plant an oak tree was 100 years ago, the second best time is today.

The best time to have adopted laws to protect the innocent would have been 222 years ago.

BrianW
10-31-2013, 10:06 AM
Does that really matter to their family when they are dead? Seriously, does it really matter???

You have to pick limits somewhere. But I have a 21 year old and a 17 year old, it would not matter to me, the loss of either would be absolutely devastating.

The issue isn't how old kids are when they get killed, its that they get killed. Some of you people are obtuse, to be polite.

The subject is clearly about children and the 'if it saves one child' mentality. I could easily go through this thread and quote that ideal almost word for word. But I think you have seen it yourself.

If anyone is being obtuse for focusing on children, it's the authors of this report, and those using it to further their agenda.

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 10:24 AM
If anyone is being obtuse for focusing on children, it's the authors of this report, and those using it to further their agenda.

....of saving lives.

BrianW
10-31-2013, 10:42 AM
....of saving lives.

That's cool.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 10:54 AM
For starters, the only guns that matter statistically are handguns. And of those the worst are those in the hands of criminals. As those are used in crimes they would come out of service. Yes it would take time, but you would see progress at the end of one decade, significant progress at the end of two.

Except for the fact that the American public is too stupid to give it a try. They'd rather have people die.

Bobby

How many criminals are caught each year? How many handguns make it out onto the streets? I don't KNOW, but I'd bet handguns are added to the public domain faster than we take them from criminals.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 10:59 AM
What is the one thing we can we do/stop doing to save the most lives?

I think we do what we can to make public places safer. At the risk of being redundant, the Sandy Hook event wouldn't have happened if the ground floor windows had bullet proof glass.

I envision every store having a metal detector that would "see" enough metal to make a gun. I would immediately have police monitor cameras in the store and send a patrol car. The monitored cameras, if they show no problem, can tell the patrol car to stand down.

We have two choices, IMO. We can make failed attempts to get guns out of the hands of people who would use them to commit crimes, or we can change our buildings to make them less accessible to people who are carrying guns.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 11:01 AM
It's not nearly as complicated as you mericans make it out to be.

Save a child being injured by a firearm=eliminate a gun.

Save a child from being killed by a firearm=eliminate ten guns.

NOt going to happen until the Supreme Court re-defines the 2nd Amendment.

I expect that any efforts to control ammo will also be deemed unconstitutional, although I like the idea.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 11:03 AM
I hear the smoking age is being raised to 21.

Something else they won't be able to enforce. Drinking age is 21, and we all know how well that works.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 11:04 AM
The subject is clearly about children and the 'if it saves one child' mentality. I could easily go through this thread and quote that ideal almost word for word. But I think you have seen it yourself.

If anyone is being obtuse for focusing on children, it's the authors of this report, and those using it to further their agenda.

I must be missing something. Would we rather we wait until they become full fledge adults with kids of their own before they get shot?

wizbang 13
10-31-2013, 11:07 AM
Why is there not a thread about 5 gallon buckets?

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 11:07 AM
The kids will be out trick'r treatin' tonight. That'll be a spike in the numbers.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 11:08 AM
How many criminals are caught each year? How many handguns make it out onto the streets? I don't KNOW, but I'd bet handguns are added to the public domain faster than we take them from criminals.

Today you are right. But we could easily fix that in the laws. But only if we are intelligent.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 11:09 AM
I will say it again. The US population is too STUPID to fix the problem. If that offends you personally, well it was intended to.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 11:19 AM
Today you are right. But we could easily fix that in the laws. But only if we are intelligent.

There is nothing easy about fixing this through laws. In fact, there's nothing possible about fixing this through laws.

Have you been paying attention this last year. NO GUN LAWS ARE GOING TO PASS CONGRESS.

Even the widely popular background checks won't pass, and if they did they wouldn't work. Would we re-background check every 10 years and remove the guns if the buyer now fails? If one is sane when he buys a gun, will he be sane forever? Are we going to need a doctor's note certifying we a mentally stable enough to buy a gun?

There's nothing easy about this. Meanwhile, while any such legislation is even being considered, gun sales spike, so the number of guns "out there" goes up as the legislation is debated.

I applaud the cause, but it's a fool's errand to think we can get legislation that will solve the problem. If you want your kids safe while in school, modify the building. That is something we can do.

PhaseLockedLoop
10-31-2013, 11:26 AM
I must be missing something. Would we rather we wait until they become full fledge adults with kids of their own before they get shot?

That was pretty much the standard back when I was draft age.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 11:32 AM
Today you are right. But we could easily fix that in the laws. But only if we are intelligent.


There is nothing easy about fixing this through laws. In fact, there's nothing possible about fixing this through laws.

Have you been paying attention this last year. NO GUN LAWS ARE GOING TO PASS CONGRESS.

Even the widely popular background checks won't pass, and if they did they wouldn't work. Would we re-background check every 10 years and remove the guns if the buyer now fails? If one is sane when he buys a gun, will he be sane forever? Are we going to need a doctor's note certifying we a mentally stable enough to buy a gun?

There's nothing easy about this. Meanwhile, while any such legislation is even being considered, gun sales spike, so the number of guns "out there" goes up as the legislation is debated.

I applaud the cause, but it's a fool's errand to think we can get legislation that will solve the problem. If you want your kids safe while in school, modify the building. That is something we can do.

You are confusing easily fixable with politically possible.

Hence my statement that the US population is too STUPID to fix an easily fixable problem.

PhaseLockedLoop
10-31-2013, 11:34 AM
I'm completely baffled how any reasonable additional restrictions on firearms ownership, including licensing and mandatory background checks for all firearms purchases and requirements for safe and secure storage would affect me in any noticeable negative way. There's much more to firearms safety and responsible firearms ownership and promotion than just this: [Rule I, II, III, and IV]

keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, and children should come first; by definition they are incapable of following the above four rules

I agree wholeheartedly with Paul here. I would point out, though, that he says that "children...by definition." So talking about the definition seems appropriate.

John Smith
10-31-2013, 11:37 AM
You are confusing easily fixable with politically possible.

Hence my statement that the US population is too STUPID to fix an easily fixable problem.

LAWS are passed by POLITICIANS. There's no way around that.

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 11:38 AM
http://wearpeace10.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/smmelt1.jpg

Canoez
10-31-2013, 11:41 AM
The subject is clearly about children and the 'if it saves one child' mentality. I could easily go through this thread and quote that ideal almost word for word. But I think you have seen it yourself.

If anyone is being obtuse for focusing on children, it's the authors of this report, and those using it to further their agenda.

Focusing on children is great, but, the point is to save lives from gun deaths, I think - all ages.

Gib Etheridge
10-31-2013, 12:04 PM
Like BrianY said, severely curtail the production and sales of ammunition, especially ammo for handguns.

I expect that most handgun owners couldn't be bothered to search for black market ammo. Follow up with a fair market price buyback.

hokiefan
10-31-2013, 12:20 PM
You are confusing easily fixable with politically possible.

Hence my statement that the US population is too STUPID to fix an easily fixable problem.


LAWS are passed by POLITICIANS. There's no way around that.

Like I said...

Full Tilt
10-31-2013, 12:41 PM
http://wearpeace10.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/smmelt1.jpg

The Solution.