PDA

View Full Version : Kenya mall massacre hero's... and villains..'you guys been paying attention to this?



Larks
10-01-2013, 08:12 AM
I still can not get over what has been going on in Nairobi and the reports that have been coming out since the massacre...

Not the only hero of the incident, but one of them:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/american-family-saved-kenya-mall-massacre-brave-hero-article-1.1469336

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1469334.1380286435!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/kenya-attack.jpg


and the dreadful news of torture of the hostages: (warning - graphic news content)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2434278/Kenya-mall-attack-torture-claims-emerge-soldiers-Eyes-gouged-bodies-hooks-fingers-removed.html

Mrleft8
10-01-2013, 08:17 AM
Yes. It's been pretty much the top story around here after the stupid political crap. The good side of the story is heart lifting.... The other side is pretty dark.

Full Tilt
10-01-2013, 08:30 AM
Unfathomable evil.

I didn't think this horrible atrocity could affect me directly until I learned my longtime friend, neighbour and Dentist was there on a safari vacation at the time and told his brother of his plan to visit this very mall.

Rum_Pirate
10-01-2013, 08:48 AM
What did they think they would achieve by committing that atrocity?

I agree "Unfathomable evil."

Larks
10-01-2013, 10:29 PM
Sadly, it does seem like an argument for armed and trained civilians. Kenya may be quite a different environment than the US, UK, Canada, NZ, Australia etc, but is it a taste of things to come here and are we looking somewhere in the not so distant future perhaps at something like an Israeli type solution where anyone and everyone who is able does national service and training and carries their weapon wherever they go (when they aren't likely to be drinking)?

Perhaps those two guys in the US who were detained by police after going to the farmers market with their assault rifles slung over their shoulder weren't too far from future reality.....????

Oysterhouse
10-01-2013, 10:37 PM
Yep.

Full Tilt
10-01-2013, 10:40 PM
Had a couple Heinekens with a friend tonight who spends a lot of time riding his HD all over the place.

He tells me bike gangs, or at least 'Bikers' in the States are waaaay more friendly than here in Canuckastan because in the U.S. they can't bully people, since any Casper Milquetoast can pull out a colt and "equalize" the situation.

hanleyclifford
10-01-2013, 11:14 PM
Just when we were getting overdue for a nice "Ain't those Muslims really nice folks?" kind of thread.

Full Tilt
10-01-2013, 11:31 PM
Just when we were getting overdue for a nice "Ain't those Muslims really nice folks?" kind of thread.

Matter of fact, the trailers for Tom Hanks' new movie, 'Captain Phillips', seems to try and express a similar sentiment.

It's the 'true' story of the American freighter Captain that get's hijacked by Somali pirates and is rescued by the USN.

At one point Hanks is in the fully enclosed, self righting lifeboat with a pirate or two and is having a heart to heart with his abductor, who is depicted in a most sympathetic way.

This latest bloodbath will make problems for a scene like that.

Larks
10-01-2013, 11:45 PM
What will it make of the guy in the pic at the top? The Somali Muslim businessman who rushed to the mall when he was texted by his brother who was trapped in the mall, and who helped rescue those inside, including an American family.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/27/american-girl-saved-by-somali-muslim-hero-of-kenya-westgate-mall-massacre/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2434491/Kenya-mall-attack-American-mother-reveals-selfless-Muslim-civilian-helped-usher-daughters-safety.html

Full Tilt
10-01-2013, 11:54 PM
He will be overlooked.

Full Tilt
10-02-2013, 12:03 AM
I just found out the real Captain Phillips, after watching a charity preview of the film, has come out in the press saying he "never felt empathy for his Somali abductors".

The treatment Captain Phillips received while being held hostage left him semi conscious, as compared to the bright eyed and bushy tailed Hanks who is seen having a civilized and intellectual conversation with the pirate Captain.

Looks like the effect I'm predicting has already begun.

htom
10-02-2013, 12:10 AM
Math 13:32 KJV -- But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

To the heroes, my praise; the victims, my sympathy and condolences to their families.

To the perpetrators ... may you die, unburied, uncleaned, unknown, unmourned, and never missed.

Larks
10-02-2013, 01:19 AM
Which part don't you agree with Rob? There's a huge gulf between Kenya and Australia and I'm trying to come to terms with how to relate to this, with my experiences in Israel being the only thing that comes close.

In the case of the Nairobi mall tragedy I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever of two things:

- Australian style gun laws would not have prevented the terrorists from carrying out this attack; and

- If not for the number of civilians who acted so heroically in the first hours of the attack, including those able to engage with the terrorists as the guy mentioned above did, the death toll and the number of torture victims would have been significantly higher.

Portland
10-02-2013, 02:35 AM
Greg I don't believe having a civilian population carrying firearms legally all of the time is the answer.
For a start to engage these turkeys with a handgun while they are armed with military style weapons is looking for trouble.
Their army has engaged them a few times , with apparent success , they have to get "fair dinkum" , and wipe them out.
There would be one thing worse than these crazy's getting around , it would be having the crazy's AND an armed civilian population !.
Rob J.

Larks
10-02-2013, 05:07 AM
I don't disagree with you Rob, but was asking the question if it is a perhaps a worrying glimpse of the future if this sort of scenario keeps escalating and moves to somewhere like Oz.

By armed and trained, I was referring to what I've experienced in Israel, rather than the open slather "arm yourself and shoot anyone who looks at you sideways" mentality. I've been there a few times and with National Service and regular return to service there is a majority well trained and armed civilian population.

I go back to the guy shown above, he may have been asking for trouble going in with a hand gun, but there are a few people in Nairobi right now who are very grateful that he did. Likewise with the on-leave SAS soldier who did the same:

http://www.humanevents.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/nairobi_hero.jpg

TomF
10-02-2013, 05:36 AM
i understand from my SIL that she saw AKs on sale in Kenya for $5 last year. I doubt the problem was lack of opportunity for the population to arm themselves.

Horrible situation, I agree.

Larks
10-02-2013, 06:22 AM
Meanwhile:

Shop owners at the Westgate Mall in Nairobi have been returning to their stores after last week's terrorist attack to find displays ransacked and valuables stolen.
They say jewellery and mobile phones have been taken, cash tills plundered and restaurants emptied of alcohol.
Shopkeepers believe troops sent in to protect the complex are to blame, although they admit they have no proof.

Larks
10-02-2013, 06:28 AM
No doubt there are gun traders in their now , peddling their wares.
I hope its not the future , we have Armies and Police forces to deal with that situation , leave the civilians out of it.
My understanding is that the perpetrators were in the main kids , young kids with automatic weapons.
I hope their Army and Police Force deals with them quickly.
Rob J.

I don't know about the young kids with automatic weapons bit Rob. Al Shabaab is a Somali Islamic extremist group and the people that came out of the shopping centre were reporting how well organised they were and couldn't get over the heavily armed they seemed to be and how much ammo they had managed to get into the centre.

Full Tilt
10-02-2013, 09:19 AM
Breaking news this morning.

A Canadian, Somali man who had been driving taxi in Calgary last year has been accused of beheading his four sons, ages 4 and up, back in Somalia.

Portland
10-02-2013, 06:08 PM
Greg I've tried to find the article again , but I read of a British woman who had 5 kids there at the mall.
Her 3 youngest were with her . She was hiding from the gunmen , but was found , and spared.
One even gave her 4yo a mars bar.
Another she described as just a kid , looking ridiculous with all of his weaponry looked down on them from a higher level , but left them alone.
All it tells me is that is another place to stay well away from.
Rob J.

Larks
10-02-2013, 06:18 PM
These guys don't look like kids Rob:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/23/article-2430201-183515F300000578-353_634x451.jpg

WX
10-02-2013, 08:43 PM
There are a number of Australian Lebanese and Syrians fighting in Syria. A concern expressed last night was that these people could import their aggression back here when they return.

One of the reasons Somali's originally turned to piracy was because of the number of foreign fishing vessels poaching inside Somali waters.

Full Tilt
10-17-2013, 12:20 PM
Horrific new video released today.