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John Smith
09-24-2013, 09:14 AM
Last night (not on line yet) Ed had a segment about the happiest countries. Denmark, Sweden, and a few others rake as the 6 happiest countries on earth.

Among the things these countries have in common is universal health care, child care, and a large percentage of collective bargaining, making for a smaller gap between the rich and the poor.

What Ed missed is that none of the countries on the list (we're 27th) have a huge military budget.

I can't help but wonder if we spent less on our military if we'd not be a happier country.

Among the many debates we have here in the bilge and elsewhere are those who concern our role in places around the world where there are conflicts. Many wonder why we are the world's cop. I suspect it is because we spend so much money on the military that we want to be the world's cop.

Other nations yield to some extent and spend their money in ways that make the people of their nation happier.

Reynard38
09-24-2013, 09:22 AM
But war makes us happy. We like war. We are a war like people. :)

bamamick
09-24-2013, 09:29 AM
Something else he missed is that Denmark and Sweden have a very low level of racial and social diversity. Those folks may not all think exactly alike, but they are very likely to have a good understanding of one another and how each other feels about certain issues. I don't imagine too many Danes feel disenfranchised by their society the way the citizens of countries with many ethnic groups may.

Our diversity goes a long way towards making us great as a nation, but pure happiness may not be in picture for many of our citizens?

I'm just asking, not making a statement.

Mickey Lake

David W Pratt
09-24-2013, 09:34 AM
According to The Washington Post, Denmark has a higher suicide rate than the US

mizzenman
09-24-2013, 09:36 AM
how did they measure happines?

A lot of forigners find us reserved, closed in and cold. I doubt we are verry happy compared to countries where friendship and intimacy is a stronger part of the cultural makeup.

Full Tilt
09-24-2013, 09:37 AM
I can't help but wonder if we spent less on our military if we'd not be a happier country.

Without the biggest killing machine in the world behind you, how could you continue to appropriate the lion's share of the world's resources?

Maybe you should just stick to wondering about fairies and unicorns.

Mike

bogdog
09-24-2013, 09:50 AM
Without the biggest killing machine in the world behind you, how could you continue to appropriate the lion's share of the world's resources?...


Mike

Directional drilling?

Nicholas Scheuer
09-24-2013, 10:15 AM
Anyone ever read the book wherein a Citizen and US Naval Officer proclaims: "God Damm the United States. I wish I might never hear of the United States again!"

Flying Orca
09-24-2013, 10:20 AM
Directional drilling?

*applause*

pipefitter
09-24-2013, 12:39 PM
I have a friend that I met on the internet from Denmark. He came and stayed with us and then moved here to the states and now lives in MI's upper peninsula. He liked everything about the USA. Especially the abundance of beef, oddly enough. How great can Denmark be if you will move lock, stock and barrel the the U.P. of Michigan?

Before he moved here he was always telling me how lucky we were because taxes in Dk ate most of his pay, that it took 2-3 people to share expense of a well used automobile and they had to schedule and share it's use alternately, and that the cost of a drivers license was well over $1000 at that time.

He was indeed a happy fellow but he had no real life comparison of other places. When he came here it was like a kid in a candy store. Speaking of candy, he had brought this most horrible candy from DK. All licorice based with salt on it. Really disgusting stuff. Saltlakrids. . .yuck!

Paul Pless
09-24-2013, 12:55 PM
I have a friend that I met on the internet from Denmark. He came and stayed with us and then moved here to the states and now lives in MI's upper peninsula. He liked everything about the USA. Especially the abundance of beef, oddly enough. How great can Denmark be if you will move lock, stock and barrel the the U.P. of Michigan? I bet the tampa heat and humidity damn near killed the poor bastard so he just decided to get on I75 and drive as far north as possible.

bamamick
09-24-2013, 01:31 PM
I also have a friend from Denmark who would move here in a heartbeat.....if allowed. After college he had to go home and his requests for permanent resident status were denied until he finally gave up. But having visited Denmark once, I really thought it a beautiful and 'happy' place. And I will amend my earlier comment with a news story I saw while in Odense: the BBC version of Danish tv had a talk show on when I was there bemoaning the fact that the country had invited immigrants from some southeast Asian country (it's been over 20 years and I can't remember which particular crises was going on at the time) to come and stay there. What they were upset about was that they couldn't take in MORE of these folks because there wasn't housing and facilities set up for them (but they were working on it). Having come from Germany, which at that time was not really interested in any more immigrants, to hear that sort of thing was both interesting, and heartening, that those folks would care in that way for their fellowman.

Mickey Lake

John Smith
09-24-2013, 01:39 PM
how did they measure happines?

A lot of forigners find us reserved, closed in and cold. I doubt we are verry happy compared to countries where friendship and intimacy is a stronger part of the cultural makeup.

I think the clip indicates what was factored in.

John Smith
09-24-2013, 01:40 PM
Without the biggest killing machine in the world behind you, how could you continue to appropriate the lion's share of the world's resources?

Maybe you should just stick to wondering about fairies and unicorns.

Mike

I don't think your comment works. If we look at oil, we buy it from the world market in spite of our military strength. And think of how much oil we could buy with the money we spend on tanks the military doesn't want.

It might be a lot cheaper just to buy the oil, no?

John Smith
09-24-2013, 01:43 PM
I have a friend that I met on the internet from Denmark. He came and stayed with us and then moved here to the states and now lives in MI's upper peninsula. He liked everything about the USA. Especially the abundance of beef, oddly enough. How great can Denmark be if you will move lock, stock and barrel the the U.P. of Michigan?

Before he moved here he was always telling me how lucky we were because taxes in Dk ate most of his pay, that it took 2-3 people to share expense of a well used automobile and they had to schedule and share it's use alternately, and that the cost of a drivers license was well over $1000 at that time.

He was indeed a happy fellow but he had no real life comparison of other places. When he came here it was like a kid in a candy store. Speaking of candy, he had brought this most horrible candy from DK. All licorice based with salt on it. Really disgusting stuff. Saltlakrids. . .yuck!

I expect the novelty will wear off. Hopefully not because he gets sick and has no insurance.

Michael D. Storey
09-24-2013, 01:58 PM
Something else he missed is that Denmark and Sweden have a very low level of racial and social diversity. Those folks may not all think exactly alike, but they are very likely to have a good understanding of one another and how each other feels about certain issues. I don't imagine too many Danes feel disenfranchised by their society the way the citizens of countries with many ethnic groups may.

Our diversity goes a long way towards making us great as a nation, but pure happiness may not be in picture for many of our citizens?

I'm just asking, not making a statement.

Mickey Lake

This is the salvation and a great source of pain for our nation..

wardd
09-24-2013, 02:02 PM
Last night (not on line yet) Ed had a segment about the happiest countries. Denmark, Sweden, and a few others rake as the 6 happiest countries on earth.

Among the things these countries have in common is universal health care, child care, and a large percentage of collective bargaining, making for a smaller gap between the rich and the poor.

What Ed missed is that none of the countries on the list (we're 27th) have a huge military budget.

I can't help but wonder if we spent less on our military if we'd not be a happier country.

Among the many debates we have here in the bilge and elsewhere are those who concern our role in places around the world where there are conflicts. Many wonder why we are the world's cop. I suspect it is because we spend so much money on the military that we want to be the world's cop.

Other nations yield to some extent and spend their money in ways that make the people of their nation happier.

i bet our wealthy are happier than their wealthy

CWSmith
09-24-2013, 02:18 PM
Something else he missed is that Denmark and Sweden have a very low level of racial and social diversity. Those folks may not all think exactly alike, but they are very likely to have a good understanding of one another and how each other feels about certain issues. I don't imagine too many Danes feel disenfranchised by their society the way the citizens of countries with many ethnic groups may.

Our diversity goes a long way towards making us great as a nation, but pure happiness may not be in picture for many of our citizens?

I'm just asking, not making a statement.

Mickey Lake

Like many people in academic science, I work with a great number of people from all over the world. Their diversity is enriching to every aspect of my life and has been for 40 years. However, I don't work with fools, or with undereducated people who can't think through a problem, or with people having an axe to grind so large that they can't see anyone else, or with people who solve their problems with violence, or with people who think the world owes them something...

It isn't the diversity that is hurting us. It's the attitude. It's the unwillingness to invest in good education for all. Education cures a great many ills. These high-ranking places on the happiness scale are all places where education is valued and communication is practiced. People don't just talk - they also listen.

bogdog
09-24-2013, 02:26 PM
It isn't the diversity that is hurting us. It's the attitude. It's the unwillingness to invest in good education for all. Education cures a great many ills. These high-ranking places on the happiness scale are all places where education is valued and communication is practiced. People don't just talk - they also listen.

We have more than a few friends who went back to Europe after they had kids, even though most took a financial hit, so the kids could go to better schools.

Reynard38
09-24-2013, 02:28 PM
I don't think diversity itself is a problem, but a lack of assimilation is. Groups moving to a country and remaining separate from the community as a whole really isn't diversity. It's isolation.

Michael D. Storey
09-24-2013, 02:38 PM
I don't think diversity itself is a problem, but a lack of assimilation is. Groups moving to a country and remaining separate from the community as a whole really isn't diversity. It's isolation.

We as a nation resemble much more a tossed salad than a melting pot.
If you have freedom, you are free to remain alone, talk to, go to school with, marry only your own kind. As a species, we may (many, maybe most of us) be happier with familiarity.

bogdog
09-24-2013, 02:46 PM
http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/language/data/language_map.html?eml=gd (http://www.census.gov/hhes/socdemo/language/data/language_map.html?eml=gd)

Mrleft8
09-24-2013, 04:03 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XUxjkH_HnlU/Thp97UmvwMI/AAAAAAAAATU/sCdR9W8AEAk/s1600/swedish_bikini_team.jpeg

http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i461/Tuck479/Classification/danish3.jpg
I can't imagine why anyone would be unhappy there.....

pkrone
09-24-2013, 04:12 PM
Kind of reminds me of the 2 photos several years ago that explained why Brazil had won the World Cup and Turkey didn't...

JimD
09-24-2013, 04:21 PM
According to The Washington Post, Denmark has a higher suicide rate than the US
The poll only applies to living Danes.

Dan McCosh
09-24-2013, 05:27 PM
Sweden and Denmark? Happiest countries have the best-looking women? This is news? Of course, I married one, and I'm happy. Except when I'm trying to dig up the bail money.

Stiletto
09-24-2013, 05:58 PM
New Zealand's national happiness is currently at a very low ebb, the America's cup does that to us.

Let's hope for a brighter tomorrow.

johnw
09-24-2013, 06:58 PM
The poll only applies to living Danes.


!
(facepalm)

CWSmith
09-24-2013, 07:09 PM
We have more than a few friends who went back to Europe after they had kids, even though most took a financial hit, so the kids could go to better schools.

While we're on the subject, not only should more Americans travel to Europe but they should go and settle down in some area for a few weeks. After you get past the monuments and the ruins, you meet the people and that's when the real enrichment begins.

bogdog
09-24-2013, 07:32 PM
While we're on the subject, not only should more Americans travel to Europe but they should go and settle down in some area for a few weeks. After you get past the monuments and the ruins, you meet the people and that's when the real enrichment begins.
I really don't want more Americans to visit Europe, familiarity breeds contempt...

CWSmith
09-24-2013, 07:53 PM
I really don't want more Americans to visit Europe, familiarity breeds contempt...

By who, for who?

PeterSibley
09-24-2013, 08:02 PM
I expect the novelty will wear off. Hopefully not because he gets sick and has no insurance.

Ouch ! As someone who has had an extremely serious illness in the family the lack of health insurance HAS to be a major consideration. Without our Medicare system I'd have been bankrupt and living in a trailer somewhere and that would NOT have improved my happiness.

Cuyahoga Chuck
09-24-2013, 08:33 PM
Last night (not on line yet) Ed had a segment about the happiest countries. Denmark, Sweden, and a few others rake as the 6 happiest countries on earth.

Among the things these countries have in common is universal health care, child care, and a large percentage of collective bargaining, making for a smaller gap between the rich and the poor.

What Ed missed is that none of the countries on the list (we're 27th) have a huge military budget.

I can't help but wonder if we spent less on our military if we'd not be a happier country.

Among the many debates we have here in the bilge and elsewhere are those who concern our role in places around the world where there are conflicts. Many wonder why we are the world's cop. I suspect it is because we spend so much money on the military that we want to be the world's cop.

Other nations yield to some extent and spend their money in ways that make the people of their nation happier.

The Nordic countries don't need a big time military because they know the US, UK, Germany and France have military machines who will come to their aid. In addition those countries have limited populations and they tax themselves to death to afford all their socialize benefits.
At present the USA is the big dog on the block whether we like it or not. We are the richest and the most powerful and have the most to lose so we have to maintain some level of miliary might.
The question is how much is necessary to meet our committments and any eventualities.

PeterSibley
09-24-2013, 08:43 PM
The Nordic countries don't need a big time military because they know the US, UK, Germany and France have military machines who will come to their aid. In addition those countries have limited populations and they tax themselves to death to afford all their socialize benefits.
At present the USA is the big dog on the block whether we like it or not. We are the richest and the most powerful and have the most to lose so we have to maintain some level of miliary might.
The question is how much is necessary to meet our committments and any eventualities.

That's an interesting assertion, it might be interesting to compare say the Swedish economy and society to that of the USA ( on per capita basis ), the US is certainly the most powerful but the other identifiable markers might prove more difficult .

LeeG
09-24-2013, 09:09 PM
Without the biggest killing machine in the world behind you, how could you continue to appropriate the lion's share of the world's resources?

Maybe you should just stick to wondering about fairies and unicorns.

Mike

We had a head start having vast natural resources and no one else using them, after we grew on ours we moved onto the rest of the world. I don't think our military had much to do with that as much as geography. You folks are doing pretty well.

hanleyclifford
09-24-2013, 09:27 PM
Anyone ever read the book wherein a Citizen and US Naval Officer proclaims: "God Damm the United States. I wish I might never hear of the United States again!" Philip Nolan, the Man Without a Country, a sad and bitter tale

okawbow
09-24-2013, 10:11 PM
I've been to Europe, Africa, Canada, and every state in the US. There are more happy, smiling faces, and neighborly people in the US than anywhere else I've been. I get to do work that I love, sail, play golf, hunt and fish all over practically for free, and travel see the country; all while making comparatively little money. What more could anyone want? If I were any happier; I couldn't stand to be around me.

Stiletto
09-25-2013, 12:36 AM
If I were any happier; I couldn't stand to be around me.!!

I know what you mean!:rolleyes:

pipefitter
09-25-2013, 04:57 AM
I expect the novelty will wear off. Hopefully not because he gets sick and has no insurance.

No, in spite of how that might help your cause here on most days. He moved here in 1996. Has a relatively large home, and not only insurance for himself, but his wife as well. She basically does what she wants and has her own business knitting, of all things. A computer company hired him before he even had his green card.

One thing that too many can't deny once you get past their redundant doomsday, USA sux scenarios is, that most people that move here from other countries are somehow motivated to succeed on a lot less resources than we think we don't have.

pipefitter
09-25-2013, 05:03 AM
I bet the tampa heat and humidity damn near killed the poor bastard so he just decided to get on I75 and drive as far north as possible.

I have never seen someone so happy about Disney World in my life. Took him to Brocato's for foot long Cuban sandwiches and he just stared at them in amazement. I don't think he knew whether to worship it or eat it. I found out from his wife that when she went with him to visit DK, that they ate these real little pointy sandwiches, usually with some type of fish on them. She was not crazy about the food there.

When I saw them again after he got settled, he informed me that the U.P.'s mosquitoes dwarf ours in both size and numbers. I didn't think that was possible.

Curtism
09-25-2013, 05:41 AM
I bet the tampa heat and humidity damn near killed the poor bastard so he just decided to get on I75 and drive as far north as possible.

The climate in the UP is undoubtedly closer to what he's accustomed to and the hunting is sure to be better. Or at least the deer are larger than most dogs. Since he can withstand the winters up theya, I'm wondering why he didn't go a bit farther where he'd have access to decent healthcare.

pipefitter
09-25-2013, 12:41 PM
The climate in the UP is undoubtedly closer to what he's accustomed to and the hunting is sure to be better. Or at least the deer are larger than most dogs. Since he can withstand the winters up theya, I'm wondering why he didn't go a bit farther where he'd have access to decent healthcare.

How does having a good career and undoubtedly good insurance equate to poor healthcare? Do you mean that he would be better off having his health care generally decided for him whether he can afford it or not?

If this is the case, why aren't more of you moving there? I also have a friend here in Florida from Saskatchewan. He landed a job with TECO. When I asked him why he chose Florida, he claimed that the price of beer there was outrageous. He now has great healthcare benefits and cheap beer. What else is there?

Keith Wilson
09-25-2013, 01:45 PM
. . . the U.P.'s mosquitoes dwarf ours in both size and numbers.He's not lying. If there were any more of 'em, they'd have to be smaller. The farther north you go, the worse they get, until everything freezes.

The 'happiest countries' lists are a very broad statistical measure. Obviously individual people value different things, and there will always be some who like places others might not. I moved back to Minnesota from San Francisco; some people thought I was nuts. Around the end of February, I'm inclined to agree with them.

Curtism
09-25-2013, 04:03 PM
How does having a good career and undoubtedly good insurance equate to poor healthcare? Do you mean that he would be better off having his health care generally decided for him whether he can afford it or not?

Actually good careers with companies that provide excellent health insurance has the potential to be a wonderful thing IMO. But the glaring contrast between Canada and the US is that once someone becomes unable to perform their duties due to age or health problems, or the industry dries up and/or lays you off, or some combination of those scenarios (which applies to me personally), up there you don't pay exorbitant premiums to some private ins corp or get kicked to the curb. In other words, all those years spend contributing to the insurance cabal, such as we do here, doesn't get pissed away once you can no longer work. And the beautiful part of that is you are covered in your elder years. That sounds like a much better alternative to me.

They also don't allow the pharma corps to gouge the bejeebers out of it's citizens.


If this is the case, why aren't more of you moving there?

More of who exactly? If you're talking about those of us who aren't living with the illusion that we have "the best healthcare system in the world" and think we should have a more equitable system, then I definitely fit in that category.

I'm currently on the Republican healthcare plan (ala Allen Grayson) and if I thought I could stand the climate -not to mention the low landmass to saltwater shoreline ratio- I'd already live there, you betcha.


I also have a friend here in Florida from Saskatchewan. He landed a job with TECO. When I asked him why he chose Florida, he claimed that the price of beer there was outrageous. He now has great healthcare benefits and cheap beer. What else is there?

Either your friend is yanking your chain or you're yanking mine. But anyone who honestly thinks we currently have "great healthcare" has obviously never really had to rely on it in any significant manner.

Cuyahoga Chuck
09-26-2013, 01:45 PM
That's an interesting assertion, it might be interesting to compare say the Swedish economy and society to that of the USA ( on per capita basis ), the US is certainly the most powerful but the other identifiable markers might prove more difficult .

Your country benefits, also. Do you really think Australia could keep China from spreading it's mantel toward the Southern Ocean if there was no US fleet between you and them?