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BrianY
09-17-2013, 11:29 AM
No, I'm not posting this to disparage religious folks. I am postingit because I find it to be totally unexpected and very surprising. I can't help but wonder why spiritual and religous folks would be more inclined to be depressed.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/235381969_Spiritual_and_religious_beliefs_as_risk_ factors_for_the_onset_of_major_depression_an_inter national_cohort_study



Spiritual and religious beliefs as risk factors for the onset of major depression: an international cohort study.

B Leurent (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/2006155980_B_Leurent/), I Nazareth (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/38226369_I_Nazareth/), J Bellón-Saameño (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/2004320573_J_Bellon-Saameno/), M-I Geerlings (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/65347679_M-I_Geerlings/), H Maaroos (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/34173198_H_Maaroos/), S Saldivia (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/56843083_S_Saldivia/), I Svab (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/6243613_I_Svab/), F Torres-González (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/39888630_F_Torres-Gonzalez/), M Xavier (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/47837967_M_Xavier/), M King (http://forum.woodenboat.com/researcher/65427077_M_King/)


Mental Health Sciences Unit, Faculty of Brain Sciences, University College London Medical School, UK.
Psychological Medicine (http://forum.woodenboat.com/journal/1469-8978_Psychological_Medicine) (impact factor: 6.16). 01/2013; DOI:10.1017/S0033291712003066 Source: PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23360581)

ABSTRACT BACKGROUND: Several studies have reported weak associations between religious or spiritual belief and psychological health. However, most have been cross-sectional surveys in the USA, limiting inference about generalizability. An international longitudinal study of incidence of major depression gave us the opportunity to investigate this relationship further. Method Data were collected in a prospective cohort study of adult general practice attendees across seven countries. Participants were followed at 6 and 12 months. Spiritual and religious beliefs were assessed using a standardized questionnaire, and DSM-IV diagnosis of major depression was made using the Composite International Diagnostic Interview (CIDI). Logistic regression was used to estimate incidence rates and odds ratios (ORs), after multiple imputation of missing data. RESULTS: The analyses included 8318 attendees. Of participants reporting a spiritual understanding of life at baseline, 10.5% had an episode of depression in the following year compared to 10.3% of religious participants and 7.0% of the secular group (p < 0.001). However, the findings varied significantly across countries, with the difference being significant only in the UK, where spiritual participants were nearly three times more likely to experience an episode of depression than the secular group [OR 2.73, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.59-4.68]. The strength of belief also had an effect, with participants with strong belief having twice the risk of participants with weak belief. There was no evidence of religion acting as a buffer to prevent depression after a serious life event. CONCLUSIONS: These results do not support the notion that religious and spiritual life views enhance psychological well-being.





more here: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-raj-persaud/religion-depression_b_3928675.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Glen Longino
09-17-2013, 11:38 AM
Makes perfect sense to me!
Hell, if I believed that Satan and his Demons were in control of the world, even I might become depressed!:)

Osborne Russell
09-17-2013, 11:50 AM
I can't help but wonder why spiritual and religous folks would be more inclined to be depressed.

Religions are not alike. Hopis have the snake dance, the corn dance, and the rain dance. Does it incline them to depression?

BETTY-B
09-17-2013, 12:03 PM
Religions are not alike. Hopis have the snake dance, the corn dance, and the rain dance. Does it incline them to depression?

If it is 300 years ago, and no rain comes, then yes, they would probably be a bit depressed.

Peerie Maa
09-17-2013, 12:04 PM
We need to see the original. Could it be that it is not spirituality that is depressing, but that being prone to depression makes people search for spirituality? We need to read the report to see if there is any pointer to which way round the linkage works.

John of Phoenix
09-17-2013, 12:25 PM
I can't help but wonder why spiritual and religous folks would be more inclined to be depressed.I can see that trying to reconcile reality with religion would be depressing.

TomF
09-17-2013, 12:51 PM
Three things. First, I think Nick's quite possibly onto something - the impetus towards searching out a spiritual path might itself come from the person feeling prone to depression. This study might accidentally be measuring something other than what it thinks it does.

Second, there's religion, and then there's religion. ;) Some varieties are much more oriented towards "stick" than "carrot." As I've yet to meet a person who's not screwed up or screwing up some sector of their lives ... being convinced that this leads to massive eternal consequences but being incapable of shifting your behaviour at all/enough/quickly enough can easily lead to despair. Varieties of religion more oriented towards "carrot" than "stick" tend to emphasize compassion, forgiveness (including self-forgiveness), and grace - which if a person really cottons onto, goes one helluva ways towards relieving despair.

Finally, religious faith is only as effective as one's practice of it. I may believe that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Muay Thai are the ultra-bestest unarmed martial arts ever developed ... but they do me no good if I only mouth my approval and convictions ... and never actually study with anyone, put in time training, or examine what I do right or wrong. Religion is not so different. Meditation and meditative prayer practices are extraordinarily effective for restoring one's mental and emotional balance ... across many religions traditions.

But only if you do them. :)

bobbys
09-17-2013, 01:20 PM
I get depressed reading all the anti religion threads Atheists drag up...

John of Phoenix
09-17-2013, 01:23 PM
First sentence of the original post:
No, I'm not posting this to disparage religious folks. I am posting it because I find it to be totally unexpected and very surprising.alvin, did you ever make it to that reading comprehension class?

pkrone
09-17-2013, 02:30 PM
I think this "study" is the result of the old "publish or perish" axiom. The other well known scientific truth that applies in this situation is..."If you torture the data enough, it will admit to anything..."

BrianY
09-17-2013, 03:48 PM
Another example of research that, regardless of whether it is true or not, is really not particularly useful.



Oh, I can see ways that it might turn out to be useful. It might be useful as part of a profile of the type of person that is prone to depression, for example. Or it might lead to discoverise about how the brain works.

In any case you should know better. It's usually pretty hard to see where research - especially research into 'squishy" areas such as human behavior, psychology, medicine, etc. - will ultimately lead to. I for one am VERY glad that there are folks out there doing research that is "not particularly useful".

Keith Wilson
09-17-2013, 04:08 PM
It's hard to know what research will turn up something really useful until well after the fact. I can imagine this may turn out to be - or not. One way or another, the prelude to a significant discovery isn't usually "Eureka!" but "Hmmm, that's funny . . . "

skuthorp
09-17-2013, 04:50 PM
I get depressed reading all the anti religion threads Atheists drag up...

As a non believer it does surprise me if the study is correct. I would have thought that belief in a deity and an afterlife gave one hope rather than the opposite.

Keith Wilson
09-17-2013, 04:54 PM
Correlation is not causation. See #5 and #7

CWSmith
09-17-2013, 05:14 PM
Unhappiness is a mood that passes. Depression is a clinical state most often brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain. To say that religion is not a substitute for medical treatment only negates the beliefs and practices of one fringe religious group - the Christian Scientists.

bogdog
09-17-2013, 05:55 PM
Unhappiness is a mood that passes. Depression is a clinical state most often brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain. To say that religion is not a substitute for medical treatment only negates the beliefs and practices of one fringe religious group - the Christian Scientists.

There are a number of Christian denominations who believe both physical and mental health issues can be a result of demons, either possession or other demonic activity, including Catholicism.

pefjr
09-17-2013, 06:10 PM
I would think the study should be confirmed by a study of Atheists. It should be easy to confirm that Atheists have less depression, ....or not.

bogdog
09-17-2013, 06:16 PM
I would think the study should be confirmed by a study of Atheists. It should be easy to confirm that Atheists have less depression, ....or not.
I can't imagine atheists would have less depression than believers. I suspect religious delusion can have a multitude of positive effects if it's not too repressive and focuses on community.

skuthorp
09-17-2013, 06:19 PM
I would think the study should be confirmed by a study of Atheists. It should be easy to confirm that Atheists have less depression, ....or not.
Hmm, I can't see what that would prove actually, and anyhow maybe atheists don't believe in surveys either?:arg

CWSmith
09-17-2013, 06:39 PM
There are a number of Christian denominations who believe both physical and mental health issues can be a result of demons, either possession or other demonic activity, including Catholicism.

But only one that preaches prayer over medicine for medical disorders.

bogdog
09-17-2013, 06:55 PM
But only one that preaches prayer over medicine for medical disorders.

I suspect that might depend on the priests/pastors of a specific parish. There's a fair amount of difference among priests/pastors of a given belief, they often have some very different ideas than the leadership. A number of Protestant groups believe in prayer over medicine, not just the Christian Scientists.

bobbys
09-17-2013, 09:25 PM
I would think the study should be confirmed by a study of Atheists. It should be easy to confirm that Atheists have less depression, ....or not..
I
suppose if one is a atheist things are as bad or good as they are ever gonna get.

Waddie
09-18-2013, 01:17 AM
.
I
suppose if one is a atheist things are as bad or good as they are ever gonna get.

I guess the best thing about being an atheist is you have no expectations. I'd write more but now I'm depressed........

regards,
Waddie

skuthorp
09-18-2013, 02:29 AM
.
I
suppose if one is a atheist things are as bad or good as they are ever gonna get.
I am minded of Joe E. Lewis: "I feel sorry for people who don't drink because when they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day".

pefjr
09-18-2013, 07:53 AM
.
I
suppose if one is a atheist things are as bad or good as they are ever gonna get.If 'things', whether good or bad, depended upon 'supposing' then that matter would be irrelevant to the Atheist.

BrianY
09-18-2013, 09:19 AM
.
I
suppose if one is a atheist things are as bad or good as they are ever gonna get.

That's an odd thing to say. Atheists have hopes and dream like everyone else. The difference is that they do not depend on or ask supernatural entities to help them achieve them. Atheism does not preclude hope for the future or working to improve one's lot in life.

John Smith
09-18-2013, 09:25 AM
If it is 300 years ago, and no rain comes, then yes, they would probably be a bit depressed.

I have a simpler view as to why religious beliefs are likely to bring depression. If one prays for rain and no rain comes, it is just one example of prayers that are not answered. If one believes in a God who answers prayers, at some point in everyone's life prayers will go unanswered. People will fail tests or succumb to disease in spite of prayer.

This sort of thing can be very testing. Praying will not bring in money to pay one's rent or mortgage. Bad things happen to people who believe God will protect them from those bad things. I can see all of this as a cause for depression.

Chris Coose
09-18-2013, 09:42 AM
I imagine there are souls in heaven who experience depression. It is a condition that comes with having a brain.

bogdog
09-18-2013, 09:48 AM
I imagine there are souls in heaven who experience depression. It is a condition that comes with having a brain.

Souls in heaven experience depression for various reasons, here's two, everything is in gold, that's got to be boring after the first fifteen seconds, also there are no dogs so why bother going in the first place?

bobbys
09-18-2013, 10:30 AM
That's an odd thing to say. Atheists have hopes and dream like everyone else. The difference is that they do not depend on or ask supernatural entities to help them achieve them. Atheism does not preclude hope for the future or working to improve one's lot in life..

I think i meant more after your dead, thats it, there will be nothing.

But i am curious how do you arrive at a conclusion that anything is good or bad.

If there's no morality things just are..

going even deeper who told us there's good or bad.

Now we are heading into the woman eating the apple.

bobbys
09-18-2013, 10:41 AM
Souls in heaven experience depression for various reasons, here's two, everything is in gold, that's got to be boring after the first fifteen seconds, also there are no dogs so why bother going in the first place?.

I do not find anything in the Bible that says your dawg wont be there.

Course im not trying to get into a Bible throwdown but it does say this.

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

bobbys
09-18-2013, 10:45 AM
I have a simpler view as to why religious beliefs are likely to bring depression. If one prays for rain and no rain comes, it is just one example of prayers that are not answered. If one believes in a God who answers prayers, at some point in everyone's life prayers will go unanswered. People will fail tests or succumb to disease in spite of prayer.

This sort of thing can be very testing. Praying will not bring in money to pay one's rent or mortgage. Bad things happen to people who believe God will protect them from those bad things. I can see all of this as a cause for depression..

Thats If you really believe other people are really jumping up and down whipping their backs chanting for rain and money. .

John of Phoenix
09-18-2013, 10:54 AM
Thats If you really believe other people are really jumping up and down whipping their backs chanting for rain and money. .You think that doesn't happen? People flail themselves for all sorts of religious reasons all over the world.

bogdog
09-18-2013, 10:55 AM
.

I do not find anything in the Bible that says your dawg wont be there.

Course im not trying to get into a Bible throwdown but it does say this.

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

I'm sure there's also some other really expensive stuff too like pearls, for the gates, jasper will likely be popular, although I have no idea why. Lots of silver and other precious stones, maybe semi-precious too if they're birthstones. That's my revelation and I'm sticking to it.

John of Phoenix
09-18-2013, 11:02 AM
I'm sure there's also some other really expensive stuff too like pearls, for the gates, jasper will likely be popular, although I have no idea why. Lots of silver and other precious stones, maybe semi-precious too if they're birthstones. That's my revelation and I'm sticking to it.Don't forget virgins, lots and lots of virgins. Did anyone ever considered sharing heaven with other faiths?

bogdog
09-18-2013, 11:12 AM
Don't forget virgins, lots and lots of virgins... I don't think the wife will go for that...

John of Phoenix
09-18-2013, 11:14 AM
Personally, I don't see the big attraction of virgins. I mean, what's the point?

bogdog
09-18-2013, 11:16 AM
Personally, I don't see the big attraction of virgins. I mean, what's the point?They don't get pregnant the first time ya know? I guess the body has a way of shutting it down.

Osborne Russell
09-18-2013, 11:39 AM
.

Thats If you really believe other people are really jumping up and down whipping their backs chanting for rain and money. .

Do you really believe they aren't?

Chris Coose
09-18-2013, 11:46 AM
Naturally, the PreVat II 3rd grade Catholic classmates didn't go for the pet cat and dogs being soulless, therefore, no heaven for pets, so they brought it to Sister Ursella in the 4th grade and it was clearly confirmed. Kids cried but obiedence prevailed. There was nothing more to be said.
My sister had just made her way there (heaven) but she must have been too busy to get back to me on that question.
I assume pets are still prohibited.
Now that the Limbo babies have been displaced to heaven, it must be a happier place.

John Smith
09-18-2013, 12:00 PM
.

I think i meant more after your dead, thats it, there will be nothing.

But i am curious how do you arrive at a conclusion that anything is good or bad.

If there's no morality things just are..

going even deeper who told us there's good or bad.

Now we are heading into the woman eating the apple.

Morality and religion are two distinctly different things.

John Smith
09-18-2013, 12:04 PM
.

Thats If you really believe other people are really jumping up and down whipping their backs chanting for rain and money. .

How many people who've had their homes foreclosed in spite of paying their mortgage prayed that it would not happen? Our courts, who didn't care that the bank couldn't prove it owned the mortgage, were more powerful than their God. They had to face one of two realities; God doesn't exist or God didn't care. Maybe they regret all the money they donated to their church. Maybe they feel like suckers. All would be reasonable feelings, no?

bobbys
09-18-2013, 12:09 PM
How many people who've had their homes foreclosed in spite of paying their mortgage prayed that it would not happen? Our courts, who didn't care that the bank couldn't prove it owned the mortgage, were more powerful than their God. They had to face one of two realities; God doesn't exist or God didn't care. Maybe they regret all the money they donated to their church. Maybe they feel like suckers. All would be reasonable feelings, no?.

I do not know the numbers or link to people that gave to a church, prayed and lost their homes and felt like suckers so its impossible to reply to that.

It would not be reasonable would it?

bogdog
09-18-2013, 12:12 PM
Do you really believe they aren't?John Paul II was big into self-flagellation. Many of the Opus Dei folk are too. I won't even touch on the nuns and monks, of course many of the nuns were more deposed to flogging others.

Chris Coose
09-18-2013, 12:14 PM
Don't forget virgins, lots and lots of virgins. Did anyone ever considered sharing heaven with other faiths?

Ya think the mid east is in religious trouble?

Magine putting just the 32,000 varities of protestants together? There has to be 2,000 diffferent kinds of Catholics. Can't say much about the schisms in Islam but I know there are a bunch split Jewish traditions. That's just the Abrahamists!!

Now add some Hindus in with the Mohammadens.

They have to have separate heavens. Even then, there'd be hell to pay, cause the devil would be sure to sneak in on a bogus visa with all that sht going on.

bobbys
09-18-2013, 12:15 PM
Naturally, the PreVat II 3rd grade Catholic classmates didn't go for the pet cat and dogs being soulless, therefore, no heaven for pets, so they brought it to Sister Ursella in the 4th grade and it was clearly confirmed. Kids cried but obiedence prevailed. There was nothing more to be said.
My sister had just made her way there (heaven) but she must have been too busy to get back to me on that question.
I assume pets are still prohibited.
Now that the Limbo babies have been displaced to heaven, it must be a happier place..

dont know never had a dog when a kid , I think i prayed a bit for one or maybe just wished for one, Do not know Sister Ursella but did know Sister Bearnard, She told us if we bite our nails the nails would stick in our stomach forever along with gum.

Im sure they did the best they could but when older i found stuff out for myself.

My Sister never had a pet but she did get a pink princess phone.

She is gone now maybe she is to busy talking to my mom and dad to give me a call.

bogdog
09-18-2013, 12:21 PM
Ain't going to happen, but it's a nice thought.

http://www.haroldandersen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/20110728-HWA-Column-1.png (http://www.haroldandersen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/20110728-HWA-Column-1.png)

bobbys
09-18-2013, 12:27 PM
Ain't going to happen, but it's a nice thought.

http://www.haroldandersen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/20110728-HWA-Column-1.png (http://www.haroldandersen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/20110728-HWA-Column-1.png).

I would rather see my Labrador more then any gold...

Chris Coose
09-18-2013, 12:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Lxeamd7Rs

hanleyclifford
09-18-2013, 01:13 PM
*shaking head* (not knowing whether to laugh or cry).

BrianY
09-18-2013, 02:25 PM
well this thread has degenerated....I guess I'll close it ...for the first time in my WBF experience. (that is, if I can figure out how to do it)