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Rum_Pirate
09-13-2013, 10:17 PM
Is it


http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/9211.jpg


OR


http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/cartoons/2012/01/img/010412.jpg

Breakaway
09-13-2013, 10:45 PM
An education give one more chances, options. Better odds, but no guarantee. That's it, monetarily speaking. ( There are more reasons than money for attending college, however)



Kevin

Full Tilt
09-13-2013, 10:58 PM
And better things to do with wealth than buying cars.

Stiletto
09-13-2013, 11:01 PM
And better things to do with wealth than buying cars.

I suppose there is always wild women and better wine!:D

hanleyclifford
09-13-2013, 11:01 PM
Gets the kids out of the house (for a few years anyway).

Full Tilt
09-13-2013, 11:41 PM
Or as my friend today said when I asked if I could pick him up anything while in town, "Hookers and coke".

Mike

seanz
09-14-2013, 01:08 AM
Is it


http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/9211.jpg






Or would you be better off with a trade qualification? You know, so you could build a garage that your cars could fit in.
:)

Keith Wilson
09-14-2013, 07:16 AM
Perhaps I'm being hopelessly naive, but I have this amiable delusion that learning things is good.

skuthorp
09-14-2013, 07:35 AM
Learning most things is good. Uni is a great shock to many from the more protected educational institutions. You have to ort it out for yourself. And of course it does teach you that learning is lifelong, something still not recognised by many.

bogdog
09-14-2013, 07:47 AM
A good chem. lab class can make cooking meth so much safer. We had some local freshmen get busted last year, way too inexperienced, wasted tuition if ya ask me.

hanleyclifford
09-14-2013, 08:07 AM
Perhaps I'm being hopelessly naive, but I have this amiable delusion that learning things is good. Or as one of my Commanding Officers said, "Time spent on reconaissance is never wasted".:)

Ian McColgin
09-14-2013, 08:21 AM
Through the '60s with the expanding economy we in university had the luxury of pursuing education for education. If you hoped for an academic or research career (Dow and Shell Oil and other corportations had research opportunities that were often more appealing than university appointments), then university education was indeed a good career start. Other than that, university did not really prepare one with up to date job tools. Rather, it was for many careers more like an initiation rite with a small side benefit if you happened to become a life-long self-educator.

In the '70s I was deeply shocked by the 'consumer movementiztion' of higher education where the value of a degree was more directly related to earings and jobs and people actually contemplated deceptive sales suits against colleges that advertised curricula as job enhancing when they taught business methods at least a decade out of date. The effort to get more up to date turned professional track university studies into a form of subsidised training program for corporations, complete with the move from scholarships to loans as a way of yoking students to the corporate world.

So here we are. It's in many ways just worse with some rays of hope. We still have real liberal arts majors graduating and then levening the learned professions and business with classical allusions and gracefully written memos. There are farmers who got turned on enough by that mandatory English class that they read books.

The most important thing higher education still does, more or less, is help people understand that not only is a life of learning worth it, but that it must happen in community. At the profoundest level, thinking is a social activity with ideas tested by communication with others. Autodictats have flashes of insight but all too often they are to learning what jail house lawyers, AV bibilical fundamentalists, and so many second amendment frothers are to law - slaves to incomplete literalism.

Full Tilt
09-14-2013, 08:40 AM
In the '70s I was deeply shocked by the 'consumer movementiztion' of higher education where the value of a degree was more directly related to earings......

and mood rings.

Keith Wilson
09-14-2013, 08:41 AM
. . . slaves to incomplete literalism.Now that's an elegant turn of phrase. You're in good form this morning, Ian.

I'm not so pessimistic. Before WWII, university was for the children of the elite, or those who were very academically talented. After, in an increasing trend, it became democratized. Those who go now are in general moderately well-off and reasonably bright - mostly not headed for professorships, nor of the upper classes. Thus they have to think more about making a living. That's OK, although there are gains and losses.

Ian McColgin
09-14-2013, 08:52 AM
Keith, you're certainly right about the impact here of WWII's GI Bill. Dad and Mom both came from very education-minded families, going to college before the war and in Dad's case that was at major family sacrifice. But both benefited from the GI bill after and both saw in that bill the ultimate extension of the land grant college ideals that had a generation or so earlier broken through the elitism of private higher education.

I am so lucky to be agewise about the last able to through work and scholarships self-finance my university and grad school education without unduely crimping my folks and emerge owing not a nickle in loans. I still hope for a return to the days when any kid with the smarts can essentially be paid to go to college, at least a state college. The explosion of admin overhead and diminished pubic support that has fueled the way college costs are about treble inflation must end.

I am also proud to note that a Master of Arts in Theology is the only master's that the CIA specifically excludes from hiring credentials.

Full Tilt
09-14-2013, 08:57 AM
I am also proud to note that a Master of Arts in Theology is the only master's that the CIA specifically excludes from hiring credentials.

Is that what they told you?

Mike

Keith Wilson
09-14-2013, 09:15 AM
I am also proud to note that a Master of Arts in Theology is the only master's that the CIA specifically excludes from hiring credentials.Really? Man, will my wife be disappointed - Oh, wait, she has an MDiv, maybe that's OK. :D

S.V. Airlie
09-14-2013, 09:43 AM
College is not an education in itself but, the means to an education. Clemens I think!

CWSmith
09-14-2013, 09:59 AM
Perhaps I'm being hopelessly naive, but I have this amiable delusion that learning things is good.

Not to mention it opens the door to a career that is more interesting and less repetitive than many. I am seldom required to do the same thing twice. That makes work a lot more interesting.

Full Tilt
09-14-2013, 10:05 AM
Not to mention it opens the door to a career that is more interesting and less repetitive than many. I am seldom required to do the same thing twice. That makes work a lot more interesting.

Learning things is good, but who says that can only happen in a classroom?

Mike

CWSmith
09-14-2013, 11:32 AM
Learning things is good, but who says that can only happen in a classroom?

Mike

No one. If you want to be an artist, college may be more a luxury than a necessity that builds the mind and improves the art. If you want to be a CPA, a lawyer, a scientist...., where else do you go? Many plumbers enjoy their day and find new challenges everywhere. Others are board with what seems repetitive. I never meant to suggest that there aren't many satisfying career paths, but many run only through a college education. It isn't about the money - it's the job satisfaction.

Curtism
09-14-2013, 11:52 AM
Or would you be better off with a trade qualification? You know, so you could build a garage that your cars could fit in.
:)

You certainly don't need to be the chairman of the bored to figure that one out, eh? :rolleyes:

Full Tilt
09-14-2013, 12:02 PM
If you want to be a CPA, a lawyer, a scientist...., where else do you go?

I thought we were talking about careers where one had a different challenge every day?

Mike

bob winter
09-14-2013, 12:16 PM
I thought we were talking about careers where one had a different challenge every day?

Mike

Is there such a career? I doubt it. Certainly isn't accounting, at any rate.

CWSmith
09-14-2013, 01:26 PM
I suspect a CPA finds more interesting challenges than the average accountant. Someone needs to find new ways to hide the wealth of the 1%. Some lawyers just have forms and they change the names, but I suspect a good trial lawyer finds many new challenges. As for science - if a day goes by that I don't learn something new, write a new code, test a new idea, that day is a very bad day. I've seen biologists do repetitive analyses. I suppose it all depends on whether you are engaged in the process and the outcome.

I'm a strong believer in the value of diversity. There are times I need a good mechanic or a plumber. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be bored to death doing those jobs every day or them with mine. I'm just saying everyone needs to find what turns them on and not all paths lead through the same education.

That said, I'd rather talk with a well-read plumber and know is head is in the game.

bob winter
09-14-2013, 02:04 PM
I am a CPA and there are not really all that many new challenges after 40 years in the business. It more a matter of variations on a theme. One corporate reorganization is pretty much the same as another. One set of books is pretty much the same as another. The details change around but the process remains pretty much the same.

We just started using the CPA thing here in Canada. It was CA but the jerks at the top of the profession are attempting to re-brand, for some bizarre reason, and have decided that all us Chartered Accountants are now Chartered Professional Accountants. I wonder that the Certified Public Accountants in the US think of having their initials ripped off?

I know a well-read cabinet maker and enjoy talking to him. I also know a whole raft of people with various and assorted degrees who are not much better than idiots. Clearly means something.

CWSmith
09-14-2013, 03:13 PM
...Clearly means something.

It takes all kinds? I hope your talents some day lead you to greater excitement and satisfaction.

Old Dryfoot
09-14-2013, 03:26 PM
Clearly means something.

It's not so much the credentials, but rather the person behind them.

Full Tilt
09-14-2013, 03:36 PM
Some things can't be taught in University


http://youtu.be/HQ_fO8BSPZo