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Concordia..41

08-14-2004, 01:57 AM

The storm woke me just before 1 am and it was rough for a bit. The power went on and off a couple of times, but never went out.

My neighbor to the east has two less pine trees, but that's ok 'cause those were the ones blocking my view of the moon the other night :D

I'm fine, the house is fine, and most importantly I just got back from the boatyard and Sarah's fine.

Daylight will show more, but between here and the boat I didn't see any signs blown down or the normal wind associated damage.

Now I'll say a prayer that the storm doesn't move up the coast and that this is it for the hurricane season. That's asking a lot, but I for one have had enough of this!!!

Now for that beer and to go back to sleep.

Cheers!
- M

[ 08-14-2004, 02:58 AM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

David Tabor (sailordave)

08-14-2004, 05:58 AM

No wonder you woke around 1am... The St. Augustine NOAA Station was reporting 49 knots gust 55 (!) at 1am... :D

Glad to hear SARAH and you came through okay...
D

Donn

08-14-2004, 08:01 AM

TD-4 has turned into Tropical Storm Danielle.

ahp

08-14-2004, 09:32 AM

We got nothing. Fom Bonnie and Charlie a total of 1.25 inches of rain and no wind. It is a beatiful clear morning.

Down in Florida I hear it was much different in some places. I heard something about Charlie mowing down a moble home park or worse yet, a shelter where a lot of people had gone to be safe. Charlie suddenly went from Class 2 to Class 4 just before coming onto the west coast.

Tom Dugan

08-14-2004, 10:57 AM

Danielle is forecast to turn north and not make landfall. It's TD-5 that could be a problem. Forecast to strengthen to at least a Cat 1 and follow Charley's path across Jamaica and Cuba, and then ????

Right now Charley's headed Oyster's way, with a tornado watch in effect for most of Eastern NC, strong thunderstorms and storm surge. At least low tide in Morehead City is predicted for 1:21 PM EDT today, so that's a good thing. Current wind at Beafort is 9kt, but...

...WIND IMPACTS...
WINDS WILL BEGIN TO INCREASE THIS AFTERNOON OVER EASTERN NORTH
CAROLINA. THE WINDS WILL BE STRONGEST THIS AFTERNOON AND EVENING.
WINDS GUSTING TO NEAR HURRICANE FORCE ARE EXPECTED THIS AFTERNOON...
ESPECIALLY IN ONSLOW AND DUPLIN COUNTIES. WIND 40 TO 50 MPH COULD
REACH AS FAR INLAND AS AS GREENVILLE.

...STORM SURGE FLOOD AND STORM TIDE IMPACTS...
WATER WILL RISE IN THE PAMLICO RIVER AND IN THE PUNGO RIVER THIS
AFTERNOON...WITH WATER LEVELS 2 FEET ABOVE NORMAL. AT NEW BERN WATER
WILL RISE TO AROUND 2 FEET ABOVE NORMAL. IN ONSLOW COUNTY AND ALONG
BOGUE BANKS AROUND 3 FEET OF STORM SURGE IS EXPECTED. STORM SURGE
WILL BE AROUND 2 FEET FROM CAPE LOOKOUT NORTHWARD TO THE OUTER
BANKS. HIGH TIDES WILL OCCUR ALONG THE COAST BETWEEN 7 PM TO 730 PM
THIS EVENING.

...RAINFALL IMPACTS...
TWO TO FIVE INCHES OF RAIN ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH THIS EVENING WITH
CHARLEY. HEAVY RAIN WILL LIKELY RESULT IN LOCALIZED FLASH FLOODING.

...TORNADOES...
ISOLATED TORNADOES WILL BE POSSIBLE ACROSS EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA
THROUGH THIS EVENING.

...MARINE INFORMATION...
SEAS OF 10 TO 12 FEET WILL RESULT IN MODERATE BEACH EROSION.

...RIP CURRENT INFORMATION...
A HIGH THREAT OF RIP CURRENTS WILL CONTINUE ALONG THE COAST THROUGH
SUNDAY. THESE DANGEROUS RIP CURRENTS WILL BE LIFE THREATENING TO
ANYONE WHO ENTERS THE WATER.

Well, they've had worse, I guess.

How are our other Carolina forumites doing?

Donn

08-14-2004, 11:53 AM

Charley's supposed to get here after midnight tonite. I hope he's on time, because we'll be on a falling (moon) tide. They're saying storm surge 2-3', winds 30-40 and 2-4" of rain. Doesn't sound too bad.

Mike Field

08-14-2004, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Tom Dugan:
...RIP CURRENT INFORMATION...
A HIGH THREAT OF RIP CURRENTS WILL CONTINUE ALONG THE COAST THROUGH
SUNDAY. THESE DANGEROUS RIP CURRENTS WILL BE LIFE THREATENING TO
ANYONE WHO ENTERS THE WATER.
This is not a weather bureau forecast surely, Tom? A newspaper perhaps? I'd be interested in learning how they (the newspaper) and you (Americans generally) define a rip current.
.

Concordia..41

08-14-2004, 07:57 PM

A rip current is one that runs parallel to the beach. It is a common cause of drownings as someone not familiar with the area or the situation exhausts themselves trying to swim to shore when you should allow it to carry you along and gradually break free vs fighting the force of the current.

Rip Tide Drowning - Jacksonville Times Union 7/31/04 (http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073104/met_16244482.shtml)

I don't know Tom's source - it sounds pretty forcasty to me. Our government site/hurricane center information comes from www.noaa.gov. (http://www.noaa.gov.) Our media takes the information from there and relays it with their own interpretations.

The latest down here is for the TV stations to have their own radar so specific that they can zoom in onto neighborhoods. They have an overlay with the roads marked. Storms often move through so fast, it's kindof nice to know whether or not it's raining at the mall before you head over there. It's also handy for business like construction and roofing. You can even set up parameters and get e-mails to your cell phone if there's rain headed your way.

As boaters, I think we're pretty much watching the weather anyway and if you're out and a storm comes up, well you make do. But for the construction foreman simultaneously trying to keep his workers productive and safe, it's a valuable tool.

Donn

08-14-2004, 08:23 PM

Tom's C&P looks like NOAA's "public advisory" to me. We're pretty used to rip currents and "riptides" on our east and west coasts. California's rips are legendary, spawning surf music for decades.

NormMessinger

08-14-2004, 08:24 PM

Isn't a rip perpendicular to the shore, Margo? The trick to escaping one is to swim parallel to the shore. Or so it was said when I was stationed at Cape Hatteras.

Concordia..41

08-14-2004, 08:40 PM

The proper way to get free from a rip current is to swim parallel to shore following the direction of the current ??? I'm pretty sure it's a parallel thing, but I wouldn't know from personal experience. I don't do water. Beside it on the shore or on it on a boat, I'm fine. But getting in it. EEEEWWWW!!!

The whatever squishing up between your toes, the unknown things swimming by you. Leeches, riptides, sharks. YUCK! My toes curl as I type!!!

I swim fine, but you won't see me in a river, lake, stream, or ocean. At least not on purpose!!!

[ 08-14-2004, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Concordia..41 ]

Paul Pless

08-14-2004, 08:41 PM

Sure would be nice to hear from Mark.

[ 08-14-2004, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Paul Pless ]

Mike Field

08-15-2004, 12:50 AM

.
Thanks, people. Norm's definition sounds about the same as ours. We would say that a rip flows alongshore for a certain distance (not very far, and usually behind a bit of a bar) and then turns out to sea. More often than not, a second rip is coming alongshore from the opposite direction and joins the first as it turns.

The danger comes when you're being washed seawards in the outflow and try swimming back towards the shore against the current. The right approach is to swim parallel to the shore, across the current until you're clear of it, and only then turn shorewards. Then depending on whereabouts you are in relation to the shoreward end of the rip, you can either have a clear run to the beach, or you might have to swim across the rip again before you get to dry land.

Mind you, I certainly wouldn't want to demonstrate in the sort of weather you're getting...

It's just that I didn't think the wording sounded well-informed enough for an official warning.
.
.

Wild Wassa

08-15-2004, 01:17 AM

The footage that is being shown on Oz TV is really terrible. There has been a lot of emphasis on the damage caused to trailer parks. The reports have mentioned most deaths have occured to occupants of the parks failing to evacuate in time. There also has been a fair degree of emphasis on people not heeding the warnings to evacuate. This surprises me.

I hope the Forum members in particular are OK and that life gets back to normal for all as soon as practical.

Warren.

bamamick

08-15-2004, 06:04 AM

Warren, the problem with evacuating for a hurricane (and I may get flamed for this) is that by the time that you are convinced that it is really coming your way, the roads are so clogged up with cars that you CAN'T evacuate.

We have a kind of strange thing that goes on around here (the Gulf Coast) during this time of year. Our television stations like to scare the heck out of people with storm warnings. You get so used to it that it's like the boy crying 'wolf'. Now I know that this storm was different. I have friends who closed their business in Key West and got out. They were prudent, but a lot of people are so used to being told that they need to take precautions and then having nothing happen that they've become immune to the warnings.

I live on a bluff that's a 100 foot above sea level. Quite honestly, it's the highest point of land around for (maybe?) hundreds of miles. So I don't evacuate. I actually have a basement in my house, which is very rare for around here, and we huddle up in there if we need to. I have batteries, bottled water, a propane grill, all of that stuff. I feel that I am prepared for any hurricane. I feel that way but I am not. Because I lived through hurricane Camille's sustained 180mph winds and know that no one can be prepared for that.

I'm meandering. All that I can say is that no one who died in Florida thought that it would happen to them. They had been through it before and took the risk that it would pass over them, drop a few tree limbs and some rain and they would be watching baseball on television that night. That's how it happens. Always.

If we ever get another Camille (God forbid) and I stop posting here then you'll know why.

Mickey Lake

Hwyl

08-15-2004, 06:29 AM

Posted by Mark in Misc Boats, glad to see he made it out O.K.

Mark Van
.
Member # 2443

posted 08-14-2004 11:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few hours before it hit the eye was heading straight towered the East end of Sanibel, which would have put me 5 miles east of the eye. I don't think I would have made it through without damage if the storm didn't turn north at the last minute. We had at least 80 or 90 mph wind here, but only about a 6 foot tidal surge.

Jim H

08-16-2004, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by bamamick:
Warren, the problem with evacuating for a hurricane (and I may get flamed for this) is that by the time that you are convinced that it is really coming your way, the roads are so clogged up with cars that you CAN'T evacuate.
Not only that, but people forget that these storms can be hundreds of miles wide. The eye may be 90 miles away from your location but the rain bands are already dropping large amounts of wind driven rain, causing local flooding and making travel by road impossible in some areas.

Tom Dugan

08-16-2004, 10:52 AM

Sorry to get back to this so late, but Donn is right, I cut and pasted the NOAA advisory. You non-US folk probably don't know it, but you can find the weather anywhere in the US by going to the NOAA websites. The NOAA webservers are distributed according to region. www.Xrh.noaa.gov, (http://www.Xrh.noaa.gov,) but replace the "X" with "e" for Eastern, "s" for Southern, "c" for central, etc. Clicking on the map will take you to your general area of interest. Click anywhere in that map to get a local report and forecast.

For instance, I shortcut directly to http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/lwx to bring up the area under the Sterling, Virginia office.

Charley was a non-event for us in Southern Maryland. Much less rain than expected, and no wind at all. I'm afraid it spent itself when it hit Florida, unfortunately.

-T

ahp

08-16-2004, 03:44 PM

Afew years ago, before we were here, a hurricane headed for this island and the local authorities ordered an evacuation. There were nogo traffic jams for miles, on roads that were lower than the places people had left. Lucky there were no fatalities.

The local authorities say they will do better next time. Do I beleive that?

My conclusion is that you leave early or don't leave at all.

08-16-2004, 03:55 PM

Just to clarify the rip tide question.

The rip tide is not a tide, it is a current. When waves hit the beachvthey hit at an angle and push water ahead of them. This water forms a current that flows parallel to the shore, called the longshore current. When the shape of the beach changes, or its direction (as in from
North-South to Northeast-Southwest) the speed of the current changes. Locally this can cause more water to flow into an area than can flow out, and water will pile up. This is much like a traffic jam for the currents. However, the water, which is trapped next to the shore, cannot get out because of the longshore current. Eventually, so much water will pile up that it can break through the longshore current in a small area. The large amount of water rushing through a small break causes a strong current in a small area that flows perpendicular (away) from the shore. This is the rip tide. Once past the longshore current, the rip current is no longer confined to a small area (bottleneck) and will spread out and disappear. This is why if you feel a rip tide you can get away from it by swimmin parallel to shore (its very narrow) or if caught by one, you can let it carry you out beyond the longshore current (the breakers essentially) and it will release you as it spreads out and disappears.And good luck to those in the path.

Chad

dmede

08-16-2004, 04:02 PM

Having grown up in Hawaii I can say that I have always thought of a rip current as going out perpendicular from shore. This usually happens at spots in the beach where the bottom is slightly deeper than the rest and can accomidate a return flow of water to balance the incoming wave action. You can be pulled in laterally along the shore as it sucks water towards the rip and rips can move away from shore at an angle but it is usually away from shore. The proper method of escape is to calmly and steadily paddle accross the current and not towards shore. You will eventually be released at which time you can swim back in (hopefully)

Some currents do pull parrallel to the shore and can be feeding a rip but I think of these more as longshore currents. Same applies, paddle across current not neccesarily towards shore (though in the case of long shore currents it usually is).

edited to add: thanks chad, looks like we were typing at the same time smile.gif

[ 08-16-2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: dmede ]

Ross M

08-16-2004, 07:04 PM

Central FL checking in. Battered and bruised, but not broken. Power restored this evening. Never lost water/sewer or phone. About a zillion board feet of oak on the ground...

Ross

[ 08-16-2004, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Ross M ]

08-17-2004, 06:18 AM

dmede, don't thank me. I didn't do much typing on that. Sounds like you speak with the voice of expeirance, while I speak with the voice of google. smile.gif I just wanted to clarify what a rip tide was.

BTW I haven't had the local news channels in over a month and my truck don't have a radio, so I'm kinda out of the loop as far as what is going on in Florida. Hope everything is cool down there.

Chad

Old Sailor

08-17-2004, 06:43 AM

Very concerned about family friends in Pinta Gorda. My son saw one of their businesses on TV news and it really looked battered. One is Dam Crowley and the other is Mark McComisky. Both own auto service stations.
Old Sailor

Old Sailor

08-17-2004, 06:44 AM

Daddy's Girl

08-17-2004, 08:50 AM

Palm City / Stuart Florida on the east coast hardly received rain during Charley (my apologies for the late check in!). We've actually had worse thunder and lightning storms before and after the hurricane came through the state. A little gusty at times, maybe a couple of palm branches down, but that was it. Schools were closed that day and I am grateful they were --you never know how and when hurricanes will show up! Our concern was sister Angi in Orlando and Margo with Sarah in St. Augustine, and I'm glad they are all right, too.

Nothing more than a typical bad hair day in Florida! Very humid and hot --August! I'm with Margo when she says we hope this is it for the year!

Margo shared the lovely album that was made, as well as the link in WoodenBoatFittings in honor of my dad. I cried for hours, but it was good cry. I felt the warmth and continued concern and support as we have the past month --I carry this in my heart where ever I go. It's only been a month, and it seems like years. Thank you, thank you, thank you for opening your hearts and sharing your uplifting words with us.

Mark Van

08-17-2004, 09:34 AM

I was posting on the Misc. forum while the storm was coming through. I never lost my sprint signal during the storm, so I was online the whole time. It was pretty scary watching the doppler radar, when the eye was heading towared a spot 3 miles west of me. It would have requred a hellicopter to get my boat out of the mangrove it the storm would have hit here. Power went on at the local waterfront tavern sunday night, and they opened yesterday, which was good, since I drank my last cold beer sunday.
Mark

Charles Burgess

03-09-2005, 01:40 PM

Sorry for the belated check in...Hurricane Ivan refugee's such as myself are still struggling to take care of basic repairs related to home and business, and getting online is lower on our list of priorities .

Right after the hurricane large sections of the two hardest hit counties, Santa Rosa and Escambia, looked like they were suddenly converted to random landfills...and six months latter the only real progress is that most of the roadside debris is gone for the most part, but you still see the landfill effect when your eyes venture beyond the roadside.

General recovery is moving along slower than a snail's pace...roof is still not repaired, and last week a roofing contractor told me that the soonest they could come to make an estimate is 4 to 6 months from now (Ivan hit 6 months ago!!!).

90% of roofs still have blue tarps...the Blue Roof Society. Most of us have had to replace the tarps since the original ones don't hold up to cold weather very well and deteriorate over time.

Here in Northwest Florida many of us will be lucky to have things back to some form of normality by the end of 2005's hurricane season. Estimated time to total recovery: 2+ years.

Boating: now a rare sight since Ivan destroyed 95% of the area's boats and related facilities.

The property I was leasing for my boatyard and launching facitlies...a total loss and had to surrender the lease due to the fact that the insurance company pulled out of the state just before Ivan hit, and I haven't the funds to rebuild the facilities in a meaningful time frame (let alone find someone to rebuild them).

km gresham

03-09-2005, 02:18 PM

It sounds like McClellanville, SC after Hugo. Those storms leave enormous damage behind. One thing - Palmetto trees started sprouting up everywhere.

Ken Hutchins

03-09-2005, 03:05 PM

IMO you Florida residents should raise hell. I was recently down there and listened to a radio talk show, the topic was hurricane damage. A contractor called the show from South Carolina and bitched that he would like to send his crew down there to help, but since he is not licensed in Florida he is not allowed to do any work in the state. :confused: You people are suffering, cut out the crap and get the help down there to get the work done. :confused:

Ross M

03-09-2005, 04:22 PM

More contractors... we need 'em, but we have a lot of trouble with unscrupulous ones as it is.

For example, I interviewed 7 different roofers before I found one that would commit to removing the non-stick membrane that covers the mid-shingle adhesive/sealant strip.

The first six gave me a song and dance about how the hot FL sun dissolves this strip and that peeling it off is simply too labor intensive. One even went so far as to say "it is our - and the insurance companies - position that the adhesive works it's way past the strip over time".

Well, it sure didn't work it's way past on the jillion shingles in my yard - even after 16 years.

My insurance adjuster assures me that the insurance industry does not agree with the roofers on this subject. Yet the county and the insurors are not making a fuss, focusing only on nail count and pattern. Dozens of roofs in my nieghborhood have been installed with the non-stick strip still in place.

A semi-funny aside: I asked the adjuster how my tarping arrangement looked. He replied - "It looks fine. The joke down at the office is that the tarps are better installed than the roofs".

I guess practice made perfect...

Ross

Charles Burgess

03-10-2005, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Ken Hutchins:
IMO you Florida residents should raise hell. I was recently down there and listened to a radio talk show, the topic was hurricane damage. A contractor called the show from South Carolina and bitched that he would like to send his crew down there to help, but since he is not licensed in Florida he is not allowed to do any work in the state. :confused: You people are suffering, cut out the crap and get the help down there to get the work done. :confused: Out of state contractor can get Florida licenses...I see many that do.

One problem many residents are finding is that there is SO MANY roofs to repair or rebuild that the GRAVY jobs get done first...as time goes on and the easy money gets tighter then residents with more complex repairs will finally get something done.

Another issue: before the hurricanes, roofers and other contractors could get the building materials the same day...now they have to wait a week or more to get materials to start a job.

Charles Burgess

03-10-2005, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Ross M:
...snipped....

A semi-funny aside: I asked the adjuster how my tarping arrangement looked. He replied - "It looks fine. The joke down at the office is that the tarps are better installed than the roofs".

I guess practice made perfect...

Ross[/QB]Ross,

I wonder if our tarp skills will translate into better sail handling skills? ...LOL