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View Full Version : Another Scandal Ė Obama administration spying on the UN.



genglandoh
08-26-2013, 09:26 PM
So now the US is spying on our friends at the UN.

1. The United Nations said on Monday it plans to contact the United States over a report that the U.S. National Security Agency bugged its New York headquarters and warned that countries are expected to respect the world body's diplomatic inviolability.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/26/us-usa-security-nsa-un-idUSBRE97P0O720130826

2. NSA Spied On The U.N.: Der Spiegel Report
BERLIN -- The German magazine Der Spiegel says the U.S. National Security Agency secretly monitored the U.N.'s internal video conferencing system by decrypting it last year.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/25/nsa-un-der-spiegel_n_3813247.html

3. NSA spied on UN, leaked files show
The U.S. National Security Agency has bugged the United Nations' New York headquarters, Germany's Der Spiegel weekly said on Sunday in a report on American spying that could further strain relations between Washington and its allies.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/25/nsa-leak-snowden-der-spiegel-leak-united-nations.html

PeterSibley
08-26-2013, 09:34 PM
The NSA spies on everyone, you me, the UN . This of course is GOOD because it strengthens the good ole USA and anyone who blows the whistle on that is a traitor .... are you getting too close to that too Geng ?

elf
08-26-2013, 09:58 PM
I'm looking forward to finding when this began. Wanna bet it was started by the Bush Jr. administration?

Ian McColgin
08-26-2013, 10:15 PM
We've been spying on the UN and everyone in it since 1945, like everyone else.

S.V. Airlie
08-26-2013, 10:51 PM
So everyone else is spying. Yup, so it's okay. Hey wanta jump off a cliff Ian? You can go second. I mean everyone will follow my lead I'm sure.

S.V. Airlie
08-26-2013, 11:05 PM
I'm looking forward to finding when this began. Wanna bet it was started by the Bush Jr. administration?If that is true than Obama is following the tradition which, to me, is just as bad. Oh right! Keep forgetting his has a hallo.

LeeG
08-26-2013, 11:09 PM
I'm shocked!

Hey Geng, remember when we spied on El Baridai and used UNSCOM to plant surveillance devices? Of course you don't!

Jim Bow
08-26-2013, 11:10 PM
The NSA has taken over from the old Hoover FBI. What's good for the Agency is good for America.

genglandoh
08-26-2013, 11:11 PM
I'm looking forward to finding when this began. Wanna bet it was started by the Bush Jr. administration?

Maybe you should read the stories first it started in 2012.

Citing secret U.S. documents obtained by fugitive former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, Germany's Der Spiegel reported on Sunday that the United States succeeded in gaining access to the internal U.N.video (http://www.reuters.com/news/video/most-popular?lc=int_mb_1001) conferencing system in 2012.

In the summer of 2012, NSA experts succeeded in getting into the UN video conferencing system and cracking its coding system, according one of the documents cited by Der Spiegel.

bobbys
08-26-2013, 11:14 PM
I'm looking forward to finding when this began. Wanna bet it was started by the Bush Jr. administration?.

So its OK till then?.

Or its OK if Bush did it?.

LOL

PeterSibley
08-26-2013, 11:18 PM
.

So its OK till then?.

Or its OK if Bush did it?.

LOL

Get with the story Bobby, it's always alright for the NSA to spy on anyone, anytime. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a traitorous lefty .

bobbys
08-26-2013, 11:18 PM
We've been spying on the UN and everyone in it since 1945, like everyone else..

So we can pretty much throw out that ole Hope and change line of BS...

LeeG
08-26-2013, 11:25 PM
.

So we can pretty much throw out that ole Hope and change line of BS...

Did you write your congressman, protest and raise hell before, are you doing it now?
I didn't think so!

bobbys
08-26-2013, 11:42 PM
Did you write your congressman, protest and raise hell before, are you doing it now?
I didn't think so!.
So suppose i give you a reply either way.

Your still OK with it either way?.

This is your Out?.

Wow Who knew this was all OK based on what you think i did or did not do.

Good to know im someones moral baseline!

PeterSibley
08-26-2013, 11:48 PM
Get with the story Bobby, it's always alright for the NSA to spy on anyone, anytime. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a traitorous lefty .

Bobby, you missed me !

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-26-2013, 11:48 PM
The NSA spies on everyone, you me, the UN . This of course is GOOD because it strengthens the good ole USA and anyone who blows the whistle on that is a traitor .... are you getting too close to that too Geng ?

The fact that Australia gets information from the US's NSA is well known. Australia is a member of the "English Five" intelligence sharing network. But the idea the NSA is surveilling Australia because Australia has information worth stealing is ......
D'ya' see where I'm headed?

bobbys
08-26-2013, 11:53 PM
Bobby, you missed me !.

I think its OK they spy on their girlfriends i just did not want you to call me a lefty!

skuthorp
08-26-2013, 11:59 PM
We've been spying on the UN and everyone in it since 1945, like everyone else.
Of course, the big surprise would have been if you hadn't been, and the the GOP would have been into you for allowing subversives (read anyone else but the USA) go unwatched.

BrianW
08-27-2013, 12:36 AM
I'm looking forward to finding when this began. Wanna bet it was started by the Bush Jr. administration?

It's too bad it didn't start with Bush Jr. Then maybe the liberals would show some ire over the situation. But since it happened under the ObamaWatch, it's okay.

Gerarddm
08-27-2013, 02:57 AM
Am I surprised? No. Do I think it should happen in a blanket way? No.

TomF
08-27-2013, 06:53 AM
I'm surprised only that it's news. The UN has been a focus for spying for its whole existence. This program starting in 2012 is far from new cloth.

What do people think intelligence agencies are for?

Flying Orca
08-27-2013, 06:55 AM
Um, point of order: the NSA isn't part of the executive branch, I don't think, so it's hardly "Obama's administration". It may have happened on his watch, but it wasn't his team.

elf
08-27-2013, 08:20 AM
Strange how the Regressives seem to think that not immediately leaping to renounce this piece of news means people think it's OK.

Also, I love the way they assume that those who add comments to the thread approve and have never objected.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-27-2013, 08:27 AM
Um, point of order: the NSA isn't part of the executive branch, I don't think, so it's hardly "Obama's administration". It may have happened on his watch, but it wasn't his team.

Sorry, neighbor, but it is.

Brian Palmer
08-27-2013, 08:27 AM
Um, point of order: the NSA isn't part of the executive branch, I don't think, so it's hardly "Obama's administration". It may have happened on his watch, but it wasn't his team.

That is not correct. It is not part of Congress or the Supreme Court, so the only place left is the Exec Branch. That's the way it works here.

bob winter
08-27-2013, 08:28 AM
Whatever it is, I think it might be out of control.

elf
08-27-2013, 08:39 AM
Um, point of order: the NSA isn't part of the executive branch, I don't think, so it's hardly "Obama's administration". It may have happened on his watch, but it wasn't his team.
I'm sorry, Orca, to have to disagree with you on this. I don't see a point of order here. Sadly, Mr. Obama has always been on board with this sort of thing. And it's clear that he still is.

In this particular case it's probably impossible for any nation to unilaterally stop spying on all the others. And clearly there will never be a multilateral agreement to stop. Some nations will always be unable to control their or their leaders' drive to accumulate wealth and power, so all nations will always need to be keeping tabs on each other.

The issue comes down to how, how to restrain the processes, and how to ethically gain approval by the citizens who pay for it.

That is the issue with which we're dealing right now due to Snowdon's and Wikileaks' revelations, which weren't really revelations if you actually were paying attention and thinking about how nations work.

Finally, in this particular case the particular type of spying about which the UN is posturing so self-righteously does have nothing to do with an American Democratic administration but not a hypothetical American Republican one. Because all nations feel the need to spy on each other to be forewarned of attack both military and economic, we can rest assured that the party in control makes no difference at any time.

We all do it, and we all will continue forever to do it.

wardd
08-27-2013, 08:44 AM
We've been spying on the UN and everyone in it since 1945, like everyone else.

before 1045

wardd
08-27-2013, 08:45 AM
So everyone else is spying. Yup, so it's okay. Hey wanta jump off a cliff Ian? You can go second. I mean everyone will follow my lead I'm sure.

it's what countries do it's what they have always done, get over it

wardd
08-27-2013, 08:48 AM
the nsa is hiring english speaking agents to spy on canada

Ian McColgin
08-27-2013, 08:56 AM
Noting that everyone spies is a statement of fact, not of value.

There is a need for intelligence, 99% of which is really academic analysis. There is an important and neglected need for "on the ground" intelligence from people who live in and profoundly know the nation they are responsible for.

Much of our problem today is that too many policy makers have been reading too many spy adventure novels and are seduced by the paramilitary types who themselves are all too often seduced by the movie sadism version of the efficacy of toughness and torture. And the other problem is that the electronic crowd is seduced by the same data mining lust corporations experience, which we've fully understood since COINTELPRO was exposed but certainly goes back far earlier than the anal retentive file keeping of a Hoover or a Stalin - probably at least back to Octavia's infamous personnel files.

wardd
08-27-2013, 09:15 AM
in international relations it's not what is done it's what is made public that is the embarrassment

the russians knew for some time we were flying u-2s over their territory but until one was shot down didn't dare make it public

genglandoh
08-27-2013, 10:05 AM
This is not just the gathering of phone records and emails, it is about getting to offices and installing bugs.

I guess the Watergate plumbers have found new employment at the NSA

1. The NSA got into the EU offices in Washington and installed bugs.
Der Spiegel also reported that the NSA installed bugs in the European Unionís office building in Washington and infiltrated the EUís computer network.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/26/un_responds_to_nsa_hacking_reports.html

2. The NSA got into the EU offices in NY and Washington to install bugs in the offices, copy disk drives and setup wiretapping devices on internal computer networks.
(http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/26/un_responds_to_nsa_hacking_reports.html)According to this secret document, the NSA has targeted the European missions in three ways:
The embassies in Washington and New York are bugged.
At the embassy in New York, the hard disks have also been copied.
In Washington the agents have also tapped into the internal computer cable network.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-nsa-documents-show-how-the-us-spies-on-europe-and-the-un-a-918625.html

3.The NSA got into over 80 embassies around the world and installed bugs.
According to the documents, the NSA runs a bugging program in more than 80 embassies and consulates worldwide called "Special Collection Service".
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/26/us-usa-security-nsa-un-idUSBRE97P0O720130826

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-27-2013, 10:05 AM
For all you young whippersnappers there is nothing new here. The UN was noted as being a base for espionage from the time that it set up shop in New York. If you recall the names of member countries from that time you will notice that many were communist dominated and unfriendly to the US. Naturally we spied on them because they used their entree into the US of A to spy on us. Many of the more tehnically oriented turned their embassies into bases of electronic snooping so powerful they knocked the birds out of the sky. So we did it too and a lot more.

genglandoh
08-27-2013, 10:07 AM
Sorry, neighbor, but it is.

Thank you for been honest.

Flying Orca
08-27-2013, 10:37 AM
That is not correct. It is not part of Congress or the Supreme Court, so the only place left is the Exec Branch. That's the way it works here.

Hmm, OK, time to review my understanding of the executive branch WRT the rest of the government. Thanks for the correction.

genglandoh
08-27-2013, 10:40 AM
Hmm, OK, time to review my understanding of the executive branch WRT the rest of the government. Thanks for the correction.

No problem you are allowed to make a mistake.

David W Pratt
08-27-2013, 10:44 AM
You know, saying the previous administration did it too is akin to saying, but, officer, the guy in front of me ran that red light too. If it is wrong, it is wrong. And it is clearly wrong, and a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Plus, the Prez lied to us about the NSA not reading our email. It seems "transparency" meant our protections.

wardd
08-27-2013, 10:45 AM
another scandal

obama takes family to church

bobbys
08-27-2013, 10:55 AM
Strange how the Regressives seem to think that not immediately leaping to renounce this piece of news means people think it's OK.

Also, I love the way they assume that those who add comments to the thread approve and have never objected..

Stranger yet is the time travel cherry picking to blame bush when its convenient for a excuse..

Sounds like my logic in 3d grade.

ccmanuals
08-27-2013, 11:13 AM
You know, saying the previous administration did it too is akin to saying, but, officer, the guy in front of me ran that red light too. If it is wrong, it is wrong. And it is clearly wrong, and a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Plus, the Prez lied to us about the NSA not reading our email. It seems "transparency" meant our protections.

Why is it wrong? Isn't the UN comprised of foreign nations? Don't we typically spy on foreign nations? Should we stop all spying on foreign nations and shut down the CIA, NSA and DIA?

TomF
08-27-2013, 11:33 AM
Spying on foreign governments is what intelligence agencies are paid to do. What they've always been paid to do. It's what many of the staff in pretty much any consulate or foreign affairs bureau do.

Cripes. Does nobody read history, or even watch movies? Why is it news that the UN has been a venue for spying by US agents, or anybody else?

elf
08-27-2013, 11:33 AM
You know, saying the previous administration did it too is akin to saying, but, officer, the guy in front of me ran that red light too. If it is wrong, it is wrong. And it is clearly wrong, and a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Plus, the Prez lied to us about the NSA not reading our email. It seems "transparency" meant our protections.
Coming to the conversation late, eh? Best to read the rest of the thread.

it may be wrong, but it's unavoidable. The only thing to talk about is what limitations the populace is willing to put on the process and how to enforce those limitations.

elf
08-27-2013, 11:36 AM
And if you think transparency is possible in government, you're either profoundly naive or flogging a Regressive meme.

LeeG
08-27-2013, 11:39 AM
You know, saying the previous administration did it too is akin to saying, but, officer, the guy in front of me ran that red light too. If it is wrong, it is wrong. And it is clearly wrong, and a violation of the Fourth Amendment. Plus, the Prez lied to us about the NSA not reading our email. It seems "transparency" meant our protections.

A qualitative difference is that GWs regime spied on UN agencies to undermine their determination of Iraqs alleged "WMD" programs.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-27-2013, 11:49 AM
Thank you for been honest.

What the hel are you refering to. What I said is apoint of fact and has nothing whatsoever to do with my veracity.
Now your veracity is another matter. You know that, don't you?

Osborne Russell
08-27-2013, 11:49 AM
The Reds want the UN disbanded or at least evicted from the US.

But they're scandalized that they should be spied upon.

genglandoh
08-27-2013, 12:02 PM
What the hel are you refering to. What I said is apoint of fact and has nothing whatsoever to do with my veracity.
Now your veracity is another matter. You know that, don't you?

Sorry I will correct my statement.

Thank you for pointing out the facts.

S.V. Airlie
08-27-2013, 02:19 PM
Strange how the Regressives seem to think that not immediately leaping to renounce this piece of news means people think it's OK.

Also, I love the way they assume that those who add comments to the thread approve and have never objected.Read Ian's post about everyone spying. It implies that it's okay for the USA to spy because everyone else is.

TomF
08-27-2013, 03:07 PM
Read Ian's post about everyone spying. It implies that it's okay for the USA to spy because everyone else is.
It implies nothing. It expressly says that the game is spying, and it's ridiculous to pretend it's ever been otherwise.

genglandoh
08-27-2013, 03:42 PM
This is not just the gathering of phone records and emails, it is about getting to offices and installing bugs.

I guess the Watergate plumbers have found new employment at the NSA

1. The NSA got into the EU offices in Washington and installed bugs.
Der Spiegel also reported that the NSA installed bugs in the European Unionís office building in Washington and infiltrated the EUís computer network.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/26/un_responds_to_nsa_hacking_reports.html

2. The NSA got into the EU offices in NY and Washington to install bugs in the offices, copy disk drives and setup wiretapping devices on internal computer networks.
(http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/08/26/un_responds_to_nsa_hacking_reports.html)According to this secret document, the NSA has targeted the European missions in three ways:
The embassies in Washington and New York are bugged.
At the embassy in New York, the hard disks have also been copied.
In Washington the agents have also tapped into the internal computer cable network.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-nsa-documents-show-how-the-us-spies-on-europe-and-the-un-a-918625.html

3.The NSA got into over 80 embassies around the world and installed bugs.
According to the documents, the NSA runs a bugging program in more than 80 embassies and consulates worldwide called "Special Collection Service".
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/26/us-usa-security-nsa-un-idUSBRE97P0O720130826

I guess it is OK to copy Nixon and get into offices of your opponents and plant bugs.

Nixon resigned of his actions do you think Obama should also resign?

leikec
08-27-2013, 03:45 PM
I guess it is OK to copy Nixon and get into offices of your opponents and plant bugs.

Nixon resigned of his actions do you think Obama should also resign?

I can promise you that I'll never vote for him again--does that make you feel better?

Jeff C

S.V. Airlie
08-27-2013, 04:21 PM
And if you think transparency is possible in government, you're either profoundly naive or flogging a Regressive meme.Is Obama a regessive? He's always yaking about transparency. Part of his never ending mantra in fact.

TomF
08-27-2013, 05:53 PM
Jesus.

Yes, I think it is absolutely expected and appropriate that pretty much any sovereign state engages in espionage. And it would be surprising indeed if they didn't do it even respecting their "friends."

Where are the anti-Obama guys getting off? You'd rather pension off the CIA and their colleagues than allow Obama to use the traditional tools of statecraft?

Osborne Russell
08-27-2013, 05:55 PM
Is Obama a regessive? He's always yaking about transparency. Part of his never ending mantra in fact.

It echoes in your head.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-27-2013, 07:34 PM
I guess it is OK to copy Nixon and get into offices of your opponents and plant bugs.

Nixon resigned of his actions do you think Obama should also resign?

Nixon was DIRECTLY implicated in a FELONY (i.e. the break-in of a Democratic Party office) among other things.
So far Obama has hit all the high notes the historians like to see altho' you wouldn't guess it from the yammering coming from the racists among us.

wardd
08-27-2013, 07:40 PM
It echoes in your head.

everything echoes in his head

genglandoh
08-27-2013, 07:40 PM
Nixon was DIRECTLY implicated in a FELONY (i.e. the break-in of a Democratic Party office) among other things.
So far Obama has hit all the high notes the historians like to see altho' you wouldn't guess it from the yammering coming from the racists among us.

It was not clear in the beginning that Nixon was directly involved.
It too some time to investigate and find out some answers.

Don't you think we should have a investigation into
1. Did the NSA break into the offices to plant the bugs?
2. Did the President know about the programs?
3. Why was responsible for the NSA programs?

bobbys
08-27-2013, 07:44 PM
Nixon was DIRECTLY implicated in a FELONY (i.e. the break-in of a Democratic Party office) among other things.
So far Obama has hit all the high notes the historians like to see altho' you wouldn't guess it from the yammering coming from the racists among us..http://www.bonzerwolf.com/storage/lunatic-progressives-losing-debate-use-race-card.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1375627046503

TomF
08-27-2013, 08:48 PM
Is it really directly analogous, Genj? Spying on domestic political competitors to intentionally subvert Constitutional democratic processes, and spying on other nations presumably to enhance national security?

David G
08-27-2013, 11:00 PM
Another ill-advised, ideologically-driven, trumped-up bunch of bs from the right wing fruitcakes who are either ignorant of history or too blinkered by their partisan agendas to have any perspective. I ask again... is geng worse than Thud?

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1236053_737363586293097_900605397_n.jpg

S.V. Airlie
08-27-2013, 11:04 PM
everything echoes in his headYour head, being a vacuum, doesn't echo at all wart.:) That's a fact isn't it? Thought so!

PeterSibley
08-28-2013, 01:19 AM
Is it really directly analogous, Genj? Spying on domestic political competitors to intentionally subvert Constitutional democratic processes, and spying on other nations presumably to enhance national security?

I would like to hear Geng's answer to that question ... despite being one of those foreigners who it's OK to spy on .:D

genglandoh
08-28-2013, 04:17 AM
Is it really directly analogous, Genj? Spying on domestic political competitors to intentionally subvert Constitutional democratic processes, and spying on other nations presumably to enhance national security?

Breaking into offices of a political opponent to plant bugs and collect data is illegal and when it happens people should be held accountable.
Breaking into offices of other countries to plant bugs and collect data is illegal and when it happens people should be help accountable.

Not that hard to understand.

genglandoh
08-28-2013, 04:20 AM
Another ill-advised, ideologically-driven, trumped-up bunch of bs from the right wing fruitcakes who are either ignorant of history or too blinkered by their partisan agendas to have any perspective. I ask again... is geng worse than Thud?

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1236053_737363586293097_900605397_n.jpg


Are you saying the stories about planting bugs in the offices of the UN, EU and 80 other facilities are made up?

It happened and you should be upset with the people who did it not the people who report the story.

PeterSibley
08-28-2013, 04:28 AM
Breaking into offices of a political opponent to plant bugs and collect data is illegal and when it happens people should be held accountable.
Breaking into offices of other countries to plant bugs and collect data is illegal and when it happens people should be help accountable.

Not that hard to understand.

So you would support dissolving the NSA ?.... cos that's what they do, electronically if not physically ... or is electronically OK?

genglandoh
08-28-2013, 04:33 AM
So you would support dissolving the NSA ?.... cos that's what they do, electronically if not physically ... or is electronically OK?

No I would not dissolve the NSA.
I would have an investigation to find out what they did, what laws were broken and who was responsible.

PeterSibley
08-28-2013, 05:09 AM
No I would not dissolve the NSA.
I would have an investigation to find out what they did, what laws were broken and who was responsible.

My, what a good politician you'd make ! :D:D:D

genglandoh
08-28-2013, 05:37 AM
My, what a good politician you'd make ! :D:D:D

I have noticed that you have not make your position clear.

Do you think it is OK for the NSA to break into offices and plant bugs?

PeterSibley
08-28-2013, 06:03 AM
I think you answer questions like a politician and while I would prefer that the NSA did NOT plant bugs anywhere at all my feelings probably weigh no more than your in this. The NSA will do what it wants and anyone who tells the world what they do will be labelled a traitor by those who rule.

TomF
08-28-2013, 06:45 AM
I think that for a very long time indeed all nations have played the game that "all's fair in love and war." Paladin had a few such stories to tell, no? It's quaint to seem so lathered about it - rather like the scene in Casablanca in which Rick's is closed for illegal gambling.

David G
08-28-2013, 10:19 AM
Are you saying the stories about planting bugs in the offices of the UN, EU and 80 other facilities are made up?

It happened and you should be upset with the people who did it not the people who report the story.

I'm saying that I'll get as upset about Obama's role in this part of our government as you are... just as soon as you are equally upset at the role of various presidents past in the same sort of behavior. Oops... too late... you paid NO attention to the same behavior by prior presidents... and yet you get up in arms about it when it the OBAMA administration.

I would postulate, based upon this disconnect, and many others like i that you you've perpetrated here, that in fact your main concern is not the workings of our National Security mechanism so much as it is taking every opportunity (reasonable or not) to take partisan shots at the current prez. You're just a vociferous tool of the right wing disinformation efforts. Is it cynicism - and you understand your role in the charade? Or are you such a True Believer that you actually believe the pap you post? I really can't tell. But, it matters not. In the end, your whole approach to analysis is so much cow-flop.

wardd
08-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Your head, being a vacuum, doesn't echo at all wart.:) That's a fact isn't it? Thought so!

no such thing as a vacuum

genglandoh
08-28-2013, 10:43 AM
I'm saying that I'll get as upset about Obama's role in this part of our government as you are... just as soon as you are equally upset at the role of various presidents past in the same sort of behavior. Oops... too late... you paid NO attention to the same behavior by prior presidents... and yet you get up in arms about it when it the OBAMA administration.

I would postulate, based upon this disconnect, and many others like i that you you've perpetrated here, that in fact your main concern is not the workings of our National Security mechanism so much as it is taking every opportunity (reasonable or not) to take partisan shots at the current prez. You're just a vociferous tool of the right wing disinformation efforts. Is it cynicism - and you understand your role in the charade? Or are you such a True Believer that you actually believe the pap you post? I really can't tell. But, it matters not. In the end, your whole approach to analysis is so much cow-flop.

I still do not understand your problem.
If you want to discuss what various Presidents did in the past then start a thread and have a discussion.
If you think a tread about what the current President is doing could benefit with some background then go ahead and post it.

But demanding that I should be able to read your mind and only post things that you think make sense just makes you look like a fool.

David G
08-28-2013, 11:12 AM
I still do not understand your problem.
If you want to discuss what various Presidents did in the past then start a thread and have a discussion.
If you think a tread about what the current President is doing could benefit with some background then go ahead and post it.

But demanding that I should be able to read your mind and only post things that you think make sense just makes you look like a fool.

OK... now I'm leaning more toward the ignorance of a true believer, rather than the cynicism of a knowing shill.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-28-2013, 11:38 AM
It was not clear in the beginning that Nixon was directly involved.
It too some time to investigate and find out some answers.


Nixon got re-elected after the break-in occured because there was nothing to implicate anyone in the White House.
Once the Washington Post broke the story with crediable EVIDENCE the US Senate started hearings that revealed White House money behind the break-in and other illegal occurances.
Notice the sequence. There was no EVIDENCE so Nixon continued on his way. When there was EVIDENCE investigation started and were successful.



Don't you think we should have a investigation into
1. Did the NSA break into the offices to plant the bugs?


Are you, sober? Break into what offices and why? The Watergate break in was attempted by a bunch of very right-wing individuals hired with White House money and refered to on the White House tapes as "The Plumbers"



2. Did the President know about the programs?


Where you been? The EVIDENCE came from audio tapes that Nixon himself had authored.



3. Why was responsible for the NSA programs?

You seem to jump eras with single bound.
If the question is "WHO was responsible", the answer is obvious. All the snooping networks we have now weren't built in a day. They were created mostly over a decade ago by your friends and mine, Bush & Cheney.
Since we liberals are not interested in extracting a pound of flesh from those two they can live out their lives with the legacies they have. But it certainly would be fastenating to know how those two managed to take this country down the unfortunate path they did.

genglandoh
03-15-2017, 10:46 PM
Just to remind everyone that Obama spied on the UN.

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-15-2017, 10:54 PM
What are you Indiana Jones? Digging up this old stuff, put down the pipe man.

skuthorp
03-16-2017, 05:30 AM
Spying on everyone possible by anyone possible is a fact of life. The tech. has changed, the practice never. But tech makes it easier to spy on everyone possible rather than just a few possible targets. The process will continue regardless of who is or isn't in Government, and to give leaders deniability they may not be 'officially' told unless they ask, and maybe for the same reasons they don't.
I should imagine that the whole UN building had it's bugs built in in construction, though some may be malfunctioning by now.

Phillip Allen
03-16-2017, 06:14 AM
how should we reconcile this with the complaining about Trump 'lying' about his phone being tapped?

Dumah
03-16-2017, 07:50 AM
Has anyone given thought to the fact that by embracing technology, cell phones, wifi, etc. WE are mostly to blame for the surge in electronic snooping? As I recall, a warrant is still needed to tap a landline, but even there we compromise that "security" with wireless phone sets. Radio waves are public, no matter how encripted or private you intend them to be, expect NO privacy in ANY communication. Cameras are everywhere, most "private", but Big Brother has them too, I've learned there is no such thing as privacy any more.

I fail to understand the uproar over this latest "scandal", as I see it, the US has been doing this to EVERYBODY since the last world war. The US attitude seems to be "Do as I say, not as I do.", reconcile that.

Dumah

LeeG
03-16-2017, 07:56 AM
how should we reconcile this with the complaining about Trump 'lying' about his phone being tapped?

We can't. Apples and oranges comparison. Trump consistently says false things. Nations consistently spy on other nations and some nations have a legal process to spy on its citizens. Two separate issues.

BrianY
03-16-2017, 08:55 AM
If the NSA is NOT spying on foreign governments wherever and whenever possible, then it is not doing its job and it is not acting in the interests of our nation. Any President who shut down the NSA or otherwise prevented them from doing this work would be guilty of a serious dereliction of duty.

It may not be nice and it might not feel good, but spying - even on our friends and allies - is necessary.

Keith Wilson
03-16-2017, 09:19 AM
If the NSA is NOT spying on foreign governments wherever and whenever possible, then it is not doing its job and it is not acting in the interests of our nation. Any President who shut down the NSA or otherwise prevented them from doing this work would be guilty of a serious dereliction of duty. It may not be nice and it might not feel good, but spying - even on our friends and allies - is necessary.Exactly. Clear thinking here. We do it, they do it, everybody knows it, governments have been doing it forever, and it is no kind of a 'scandal'. Geng brings it up right now in a pathetic attempt to deflect from Mr. Trump's bullsh!t about Trump Tower being wiretapped.

LeeG
03-16-2017, 09:22 AM
What are you Indiana Jones? Digging up this old stuff, put down the pipe man.

He's like the Sean Spicer/ Melissa McCarthy spoof where she says "you said it, he's using your words!" Geng pulls up old vinegar and says "see? Those apples, they're Obama's apples!"

CWSmith
03-16-2017, 09:31 AM
Geng pulls up old vinegar and says "see? Those apples, they're Obama's apples!"

And every time he's proven wrong, then jumps to a new bit of nonsense.

Phillip Allen
03-16-2017, 11:01 AM
We can't. Apples and oranges comparison. Trump consistently says false things. Nations consistently spy on other nations and some nations have a legal process to spy on its citizens. Two separate issues.

nonsense

LeeG
03-16-2017, 11:28 AM
Aw shucks you got me

LeeG
03-16-2017, 12:14 PM
And every time he's proven wrong, then jumps to a new bit of nonsense.

Now that 45 has pretty much admitted he made it up will Geng try and argue the same nonsense that "Obama did it too!"

SKIP KILPATRICK
03-16-2017, 12:44 PM
Now that 45 has pretty much admitted he made it up will Geng try and argue the same nonsense that "Obama did it too!"

Yes but in the form of a question!

TomF
03-16-2017, 03:20 PM
Yes but in the form of a question!I'll take "Ridiculous, blinkered and Political" for $400, please...