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RodB
08-26-2013, 12:49 PM
Pretty good analysis about the state of our country now.... in secular vs christianity.


Mary Eberstadt, author of “How the West Really Lost God (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1599473798/thedaical-20),” thinks the two are connected. In this interview, she discusses the accelerating secularization of America and its connection to
familyhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/25/losing-faith-in-america-video/#) disintegration in the nation.


The interview is in two parts... worth watching...

http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/25/losing-faith-in-america-video/

RodB

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 12:53 PM
I lost faith in America during the republican primary debates when people cheered for folks without healthcare to die and booed an American solder who was actually in the field. That did it for me.

Jim Bow
08-26-2013, 12:58 PM
It can be statistically proven that the slide to secularization is directly parallel to the decline in the use of manual transmissions in American automobiles. If I had my Lotus 1-2-3 I could do you a chart.

RodB
08-26-2013, 01:43 PM
Yup, the secret to a truly great and free America is conformation and adherence to religion.

And Cinderella sh!ts little pink cotton balls.

Religion/belief in God is not a bad thing. Adhering to a set of moral principles is certainly a much better route than "if it feels good ... do it". Other than the abortion and same sex marriage issues, do you have any real conflicts with God loving Christians... After all, this nation was founded on christian ideals with of course freedom of religion. Freedom of religion does not give you the right to discriminate against those who believe in God any more than it gives christians the right to discriminate agains you as a Godless pagan!.

Norm, why not watch the video and see if you don't agree with most of what she says? The recent shootings by young people without a solid family unit certainly point out the tremendous problems we have in this nation with the demise of the family in general.

RodB

LeeG
08-26-2013, 01:49 PM
Religion/belief in God is not a bad thing. Adhering to a set of moral principles is certainly a much better route than "if it feels good ... do it".
RodB

Er, teen pregnancy is higher in them churchy states

Clarkey
08-26-2013, 01:50 PM
Adherence to a set of moral principles doesn't have to have anything to do with God or religion.

RodB
08-26-2013, 02:12 PM
Norm... do you think the family is a vital element for a healthy society? Do you think the decreasing amount of people who believe in God has any connection to the general demise of the family unit?


“In a way, I’m optimistic about the future, because I think that the more unstable the modern welfare state becomes, the stronger, in the long run, the family might become as people realize that the family can do things that the government can only do less efficiently and more expensively.”



Rebutting those who see economic issues as most important to the nation, Eberstadt reminds us why the founders structured the United States on the expectation of a moral citizenry.
“They understood that with the degree of liberty that we have in the United States — it’s written into our Constitution, as long as that’s protected — they understood that there is freedom to do good things and be productive citizens, and for that you need to rely on a certain level of understanding about what’s right and what’s wrong,” she said. “You have to rely on habits like discipline and perseverance and all these things that are really hard to come by.”
“But a society full of people who only want to be taken care of or who don’t really want to fend for themselves, particularly, is a society that is unsustainable.”


http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/25/lo...america-video/ (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/25/losing-faith-in-america-video/)

I'm thinking the lack of parenting ... ie., a solid family upbringing.... is very likely one of the chief causes of dysfunctional adults... capable of violence towards innocent people.


RodB

Osborne Russell
08-26-2013, 02:28 PM
Some Muslims and a surprising number of freakazoid Protestants say the world is going to hell because traditional arranged marriage has been insidiously corroded by secularism.

RodB
08-26-2013, 02:29 PM
Your comments about being prejudicial are not valid. I'll make the point clearer. Children with involved parents offering guidance and structure and discipline are much less likely to go astray and do violence to society. Children with broken families and minimal supervision have a much higher chance of going down the wrong track.

A very good article on this subject...
http://evrengurkaynak.edublogs.org/2010/03/06/the-importance-of-the-family-unit-in-society-families-our-future/


The Importance of the Family Unit in Society: Families, Our Future!

What makes a society a healthy society is family, and the most important component of family is children. To create a permanent healthy community all individuals have some responsibilities and duties. But the biggest responsibilities and the most important duties are the families’. There are three main duties of families, which are social, emotional, intellectual & cultural, to grow up well-mannered offspring....

.... In conclusion, if we want a respectful, peaceful and orderly society, if our purpose is to make the world a better place full of love, respect and humanity, if we want our future become the highly educated, learned and global minded children, we should be aware of the importance of the family. If we do not want to see anyone saying “If only” ruefully anymore, we should stop, think and give the necessary importance for family.









RodB

SMARTINSEN
08-26-2013, 02:29 PM
It can be statistically proven that the slide to secularization is directly parallel to the decline in the use of manual transmissions in American automobiles. If I had my Lotus 1-2-3 I could do you a chart.

Did the Lotus have an automatic or a stick?

Canoeyawl
08-26-2013, 02:40 PM
My next door neighbor is a fervent Christian. He even has a cross erected on his lawn...
He enjoys a few beers after work on Friday evening's and then beats his son, we can hear the cries echoing across the canyon. But on Sunday all is forgiven.
The lad is 16 years old now and I expect it to turn for the worse someday soon.

Chris Coose
08-26-2013, 02:44 PM
I'll make the point clearer. Children with involved parents offering guidance and structure and discipline are much less likely to go astray and do violence to society. Children with broken families and minimal supervision have a much higher chance of going down the wrong track.

Solve poverty and multi-generational educational deficits first, then we'll talk about what may be beneficial values found in the Abrahamist religions you speak of.
I heard the other day 52,000 places in the Head Start program have been dropped.

RodB
08-26-2013, 02:56 PM
Well, if you disconnect 'parenting' with 'solid family upbringing', we might actually have common ground.

I will agree with this: families do engender cultural and moral attitudes in their kids, and to the extent that there are kids who don't have the benefit of an upbringing which instills those values, then yes.... dysfunctional families are indeed a problem in this country.

However, I do NOT believe that 'secularization', or 'lack of religion', have anything to do with this, whatsoever. Some very fine folks have been brought up by single parents... and even gay parents... and some decidedly evil people have been brought up in rigidly religious homes, as well. Religion, or the lack thereof, has nothing to do with it.



I'll just say there are millions of people who are not parenting their children worth a damn.. and broken families seem to be worse in a general sense. I'd be curious to see the amount of folks who were raised in a christian home who came out reasonably functional in our society and what percentage came out very dysfunctional in non-religious families. Its certainly up to the values of the parents, and those values may be quite good whether religion plays a part in it or not. The problem is you tend to take certain issues you have with some religious convictions and color the entire group of Christians with some very negative accusations. .. kinda like Republicans are racists or do not want to help the poor.

Growing up being raised catholic, I saw the difference in a strict or lax environment from observing other people through the years. No matter the background, I'd say folks with some christian upbringing with "right" and "wrong" drilled into them to some degree... seemed to hang onto those values to some degree throughout their lives. I fail to see it in general as a bad thing at all.




This statement alone renders the original source a political treatise, not a polemic on families, morality, and religion.

This meme about lazy people willing to feed off the government teat is a propaganda statement, not an exploration of morality in society.

Sometimes, I wrestle with my demons.... sometimes, we just snuggle




The point of the article was the increasing secularization of our society does have a negative effect on the family unit.
Strong families with good parenting will create self reliant people who will contribute to society, not sit back and want the gov to take care of them.
A government getting involved in peoples lives from early on can only result in a dependent society with a total lack of self reliance. Self reliance is a good thing... don't you think?






RodB

RodB
08-26-2013, 03:21 PM
but I see absolutely nothing 'Christian' in the current right wing effort to disenfranchise millions of Americans from the right to vote on the basis of false allegations of widespread voting fraud that simply doesn't exists. I see nothing 'family friendly' about the opposition to Obamacare.

Now we get to uncommon ground. You will never convince the opposition that showing a "freely available" Picture ID to vote is unfair in any way. This is pure nonsense. Shall I list the things you need a picture ID to do in this country today in everyday business? Your statement is complete BS... and you know it.

Further, Obamacare is a train wreck and most folks with any commonsense want no part of it. Don't be so politically biased that you cannot admit the truth about such a cluster F... of legislation that was passed so fast with very few folks having time to read and study it. What about the fact that people now cannot keep their insurance if they like it... another lie by our President?

RodB

Glen Longino
08-26-2013, 03:28 PM
There are 4,300 churches within a 30 mile radius of where Rod lives.
Rod must attend one of those churches with his family at every opportunity and leave everybody else the hell alone.

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 03:43 PM
I have yet to figure out why voter fraud wasn't rampant in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008?

Didn't Bush unleash all of his politically appointed Feb prosecutors to go out and prosecute voter fraud only to find out they couldn't find any?

IMHO the voter ID is simply a smokescreen to divert peoples attention from the real red meat, i.e. reducing polling hours, early voting, penalize students and their parents with tax threats and increase the number of polling places in white districts and reduce them in black districts.

Glen Longino
08-26-2013, 03:50 PM
:DLMAO Rod's self righteous ire never fails to tickle the hell out of me!
He starts out these threads with faux subtlety and ends up with blistering criticism of everything remotely humane and liberal.:D

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 03:51 PM
The real beauty in the S. Carolina law is if you are standing in line waiting to vote and the pole closes, tough luck. The pole is closed. Go home.

RodB
08-26-2013, 03:55 PM
Norm,

Being against Obamacare is not being against poor people having healthcare. You sound like the left wing talking points. Most of what you say is pure propaganda.

Where I live you need to register to vote by a certain day... before the election. Democrats want to allow last minute registration without a photo ID... gimme a break... what pure "game the system" BS.

You next statements laid some of the problems of our healthcare insurance system from before against people against Obamacare...which is utter nonsense. Stated more simply, just because you are against Obamacare, does not mean you are against improving our healthcare system so that most all folks get decent healthcare. Most people with any commonsense can see that our healthcare system could have been improved immensely without the massive cluster f..k of Obamacare!

Perhaps many people in the US now want commonsense used in how we govern ourselves.

RodB

Glen Longino
08-26-2013, 04:01 PM
"Most of what you say is pure propaganda." RodB

:)Ha! Is anybody else laughing their arse off when they read this?:DLMAO

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:03 PM
"Most of what you say is pure propaganda." RodB

:)Ha! Is anybody else laughing their arse off when they read this?:DLMAO

The goof living in Texas sounds off with the usual...

R

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:06 PM
Now, here's the far more important question. You are saying here that things like same day voter registration, as well as voter photo ID laws, are necessary to prevent voter ID fraud.... which no one can seem to find in any remotely significant numbers. But unless you're a blithering idiot, you'd have to acknowledge that some people with the right to vote, but without a photo ID (MANY elderly people) will be disenfranchised, as a result.

So, my question is this, and it's a VERY important question:

How many legitimate voters are you willing to disenfranchise for each case of suspected voter ID fraud?

Still with the nonsense... the state ID's are free and can be had by any state resident.

Another made up "non-issue"... made up to demonize the republicans.

RodB

Glen Longino
08-26-2013, 04:19 PM
The goof living in Texas sounds off with the usual...

R

Ha! :DAnd exactly what is the Other "goof" in Texas sounding off with?:D
He's scared out of his mind that Everybody might vote and Everybody might have affordable healthcare and Everybody might raise their children as they please without regard to his Religious beliefs!:D
Good luck with that, pal!

Keith Wilson
08-26-2013, 04:21 PM
Another made up "non-issue".If it's a non-issue, why are Republican legislatures going to all that bother to change laws against opposition? Why are voter ID laws needed?

One more time: how many legitimate voters are you willing to prevent from voting for each case of suspected voter ID fraud?

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Only if you have an alternative. What's yours?

Norm, the repubicans were not allowed any input on Obamacare... REMEMBER!

You and I could sit down in a few hours and likely agree on 50 modifications to our healthcare system that would truly have been doing whats best for the country even if more needed to be done later on. With the monstrous train wreck of Obabacare, the administration is in essence writing the bill post passage with the regulations being added by the thousands. This is absurd... BS.

RodB

Flying Orca
08-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Religion/belief in God is not a bad thing.

I disagree; I think it promotes belief in the irrational and imaginary at the expense of rationality and the real world.


Adhering to a set of moral principles is certainly a much better route than "if it feels good ... do it".

No question about that. Do you have data to indicate that religious people are more likely than non-religious people to behave in keeping with the former rather than the latter?


Other than the abortion and same sex marriage issues, do you have any real conflicts with God loving Christians...

Yes--their opposition to science, their insistence upon disturbing me by proselytizing, their inability to understand that I don't want their religion involved in education, government, or public life, and their belief that everyone else should adopt their values... and don't even get me started on their all-to-frequent hypocrisy.


After all, this nation was founded on christian ideals with of course freedom of religion.

You know, no matter how many times RWWs repeat that lie, it's still a lie--the USA was not "founded on Christian ideals".


Freedom of religion does not give you the right to discriminate against those who believe in God any more than it gives christians the right to discriminate agains you as a Godless pagan!

Who with the what, now?


The recent shootings by young people without a solid family unit certainly point out the tremendous problems we have in this nation with the demise of the family in general.

Whoa, big fella! How do you get from "my religion is good" to "the demise of the family" causing "recent shootings by young people"? Can you construct a logical sequence that supports this wild leap?

Peerie Maa
08-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Rebutting those who see economic issues as most important to the nation, Eberstadt reminds us why the founders structured the United States on the expectation of a moral citizenry.
“They understood that with the degree of liberty that we have in the United States — it’s written into our Constitution, as long as that’s protected — they understood that there is freedom to do good things and be productive citizens, and for that you need to rely on a certain level of understanding about what’s right and what’s wrong,” she said. “You have to rely on habits like discipline and perseverance and all these things that are really hard to come by.”
“But a society full of people who only want to be taken care of or who don’t really want to fend for themselves, particularly, is a society that is unsustainable.”There is that "Liberty" thing again. We had a thread on this some months ago. No one could define what it was, what it really means, what it actually gave them.


Still with the nonsense... the state ID's are free and can be had by any state resident.

Another made up "non-issue"... made up to demonize the republicans.

RodBI have never had to show photo ID when I voted, no one in the UK has to, why should you have to?

John of Phoenix
08-26-2013, 04:27 PM
If it's a non-issue, why are Republican legislatures going to all that bother to change laws against opposition? Why are voter ID laws needed?

One more time: how many legitimate voters are you willing to prevent from voting for each case of suspected voter ID fraud?Like Reality matters to these reds. Look at every issue brought up in this thread - they're totally divorced from reality.

Flying Orca
08-26-2013, 04:29 PM
Norm, the repubicans were not allowed any input on Obamacare... REMEMBER!

Hmmm - what I seem to remember is them vowing not to pass any healthcare reform put forward by the other party.

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:30 PM
If it's a non-issue, why are Republican legislatures going to all that bother to change laws against opposition? Why are voter ID laws needed?

One more time: how many legitimate voters are you willing to prevent from voting for each case of suspected voter ID fraud?


I'm confident that 99.9% of those who want to vote can and will vote with a voter ID law in place. I'm wondering how they cash a check or take a test without a photo ID?

This is just another made up issue to demonize the opposition, and you know it. Stop with the made up indignation pleeeeeease!

RodB

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:32 PM
Hmmm - what I seem to remember is them vowing not to pass any healthcare reform put forward by the other party.

Maybe, after they were not allowed to have any input in the initial process. Do you remember the Repubs trying to put forth some of their ideas and basically being told to "go to the back of the bus and out the back door... we are driving now"...Y:o for real

RodB

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:36 PM
Like Reality matters to these reds. Look at every issue brought up in this thread - they're totally divorced from reality.

The only reason to not have voter ID laws today in modern times is to allow one side to cheat during elections.

There is no rational reason not to have to show an ID to vote. . . period! Remember Acorn ???

RodB

McMike
08-26-2013, 04:41 PM
Religion/belief in God is not a bad thing. Adhering to a set of moral principles is certainly a much better route than "if it feels good ... do it". Other than the abortion and same sex marriage issues, do you have any real conflicts with God loving Christians... After all, this nation was founded on christian ideals with of course freedom of religion. Freedom of religion does not give you the right to discriminate against those who believe in God any more than it gives christians the right to discriminate agains you as a Godless pagan!.

Norm, why not watch the video and see if you don't agree with most of what she says? The recent shootings by young people without a solid family unit certainly point out the tremendous problems we have in this nation with the demise of the family in general.

RodB

I didn't need any book to tell me right from wrong. But hey, some people need guidance, we can't all be strong, mature, adults.

RodB
08-26-2013, 04:44 PM
I didn't need any book to tell me right from wrong. But hey, some people need guidance, we can't all be strong, mature, adults.

Why don't you join Big Brothers and do some mentoring... if your so dang mature and so adult.

R

skuthorp
08-26-2013, 04:45 PM
This is probably not relevant today, but In my youth a local stand over man called Murphy happily bashed and extorted all week safe in the knowledge that the priests in the local catholic church would absolve him after confession of all his sins.

Peerie Maa
08-26-2013, 04:46 PM
I have never had to show photo ID when I voted, no one in the UK has to, why should you have to?


The only reason to not have voter ID laws today in modern times is to allow one side to cheat during elections.

There is no rational reason not to have to show an ID to vote. . . period! Remember Acorn ???

RodB

Voter photo ID is not necessary, our system proves that Voter photo ID is not necessary. You can set up a fraud free system without photo ID, we manage to do so.

Keith Wilson
08-26-2013, 04:49 PM
The only reason to not have voter ID laws today in modern times is to allow one side to cheat during elections. Evidence? Without any, you're just making stuff up.

skuthorp
08-26-2013, 04:52 PM
The fact that an ID in a nation of non-compulsory voting is an issue at all smacks of desperation and political irrelevance.

McMike
08-26-2013, 04:53 PM
Why don't you join Big Brothers and do some mentoring... if your so dang mature and so adult.

R

Sir, I currently am in the process of creating a brand new effort to teach underprivileged kids to not only learn how to use a computer but to build one, load the software and be able to produce music on it. I'm not waiting around for someone to create the "perfect" conditions for me to help, I'm creating the conditions. See, I'm not only going to teach these kids how to fish but I'm going to teach them how to make the fishing rod and net. Looks like I got Christ beat because it didn't take some pretense of me being the son god.

John of Phoenix
08-26-2013, 04:59 PM
Evidence? Without any, you're just making stuff up.That's what this whole thread is about - one lie after another.

Flying Orca
08-26-2013, 05:18 PM
Maybe, after they were not allowed to have any input in the initial process. Do you remember the Repubs trying to put forth some of their ideas and basically being told to "go to the back of the bus and out the back door... we are driving now"...Y:o for real

Yes, well, given their failure to do anything about healthcare during their eight years in office, I think it was high time someone else took over, don't you? I mean, the Democrats were elected to run the country, weren't they?

elf
08-26-2013, 05:26 PM
The only reason to not have voter ID laws today in modern times is to allow one side to cheat during elections.

There is no rational reason not to have to show an ID to vote. . . period! Remember Acorn ???

RodB
Yeah. We remember Acorn. They helped people fill out voter registration applications and submitted them to the state or town voter registrar. It was the registrar's job to affirm the legality of the applications.

What does that have to do with voter fraud?

Or are you unable to see the flaw in your meme?

Oh well, no point in asking. You've been unable to see the flaw in your meme since you started paying attention to the news.

I suppose you're one of the 30+% in LA which believe that Katrina is Mr. Obama's fault?

RodB
08-26-2013, 05:28 PM
The following link is quite informative but fails to convince me that folks who want to vote do not have the opportunity to get an ID to vote in future elections. If you read all of it , it doesn't look like a voter ID law would change the outcome of an election because people who want to vote have so much time to get the ID before an election.


http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

Oh yeah, Obamacare is a train wreck... just keep ignoring the news...




Yeah. We remember Acorn. They helped people fill out voter registration applications and submitted them to the state or town voter registrar. It was the registrar's job to affirm the legality of the applications.

What does that have to do with voter fraud?

Or are you unable to see the flaw in your meme?

Oh well, no point in asking. You've been unable to see the flaw in your meme since you started paying attention to the news.

I suppose you're one of the 30+% in LA which believe that Katrina is Mr. Obama's fault?



The link above seems to be a fair report of the issue at hand. The amount of voter fraud and the actual difficulty in folks getting a photo ID are both a bit exaggerated IMHO. If you are an older person who is poor but wants to vote in the national election you have plenty of time to get an ID... its all about deciding to take advantage of your privilege to vote and following the rules.

The Democratic reaction to voter ID laws is way over the top and disingenuous .

RodB

Flying Orca
08-26-2013, 05:31 PM
Oh yeah, Obamacare is a train wreck... just keep ignoring the news...

Well, you certainly would have been better off with a government-run, single-payer system like your first-world peers enjoy... but wait a minute, who prevented that option? Oh yeah, Republicans.

elf
08-26-2013, 05:43 PM
The following link is quite informative but fails to convince me that folks who want to vote do not have the opportunity to get an ID to vote in future elections. If you read all of it , it doesn't look like a voter ID law would change the outcome of an election because people who want to vote have so much time to get the ID before an election.

http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

Oh yeah, Obamacare is a train wreck... just keep ignoring the news...

The link above seems to be a fair report of the issue at hand. The amount of voter fraud and the actual difficulty in folks getting a photo ID are both a bit exaggerated IMHO. If you are an older person who is poor but wants to vote in the national election you have plenty of time to get an ID... its all about deciding to take advantage of your privilege to vote and following the rules.

The Democratic reaction to voter ID laws is way over the top and disingenuous .

RodB
It is against Federal law to hinder voting. Anything which makes voting more complicated than signing up and showing up and marking the paper is a hindrance.

Your arguments are really irrelevant.

RodB
08-26-2013, 05:55 PM
It is against Federal law to hinder voting. Anything which makes voting more complicated than signing up and showing up and marking the paper is a hindrance.

Your arguments are really irrelevant.



Whats the logic here? You conveniently declare the constitution was written long ago and is not as relevant today ... to rationalize Obama ignoring the constitution and tradition in how he has tried to govern, but then cite the basic meaning of the "right to vote" without regard to modern technology and voting booths etc... and the distinct likelihood of voter fraud with the lack of voter ID. You might not remember all the facts when Acorn got busted, but I distinctly remember some of the stories where people voted several times with the help of Acorn.

The idea that someone can show up on election day with no ID and no registration and vote is insane.

In our society you need an ID to cash a check, to rent a car, to open a bank account, to get treatment at the VA, etc, etc, etc, etc etc...

RodB

leikec
08-26-2013, 05:55 PM
Well, you certainly would have been better off with a government-run, single-payer system like your first-world peers enjoy... but wait a minute, who prevented that option? Oh yeah, Republicans.

Nope.

Fair is fair...republicans legislators were against single payer, but the "Blue Dog" democrats are the reason it sank without a trace.

Jeff C

RodB
08-26-2013, 06:01 PM
wow!

RodB

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:01 PM
It can be statistically proven that the slide to secularization is directly parallel to the decline in the use of manual transmissions in American automobiles. If I had my Lotus 1-2-3 I could do you a chart.

Or playing football on artificial turf.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:06 PM
Solve poverty and multi-generational educational deficits first, then we'll talk about what may be beneficial values found in the Abrahamist religions you speak of.
I heard the other day 52,000 places in the Head Start program have been dropped.

I have my own theory. America is the land of the disillusioned. We go to school and we are taught about the freedoms and opportunity of this great nation. Then, as we grow older, we find America doesn't even come close to being the beacon of hope and opportunity we were taught. We learn, perhaps, we have no health insurance. Maybe dad's lost his pension. Maybe our sibling was killed in one of the many pointless wars.

Maybe we learn that in America, some people are more equal than others. Maybe it's as simple as that.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:14 PM
I'll just say there are millions of people who are not parenting their children worth a damn.. and broken families seem to be worse in a general sense. I'd be curious to see the amount of folks who were raised in a christian home who came out reasonably functional in our society and what percentage came out very dysfunctional in non-religious families. Its certainly up to the values of the parents, and those values may be quite good whether religion plays a part in it or not. The problem is you tend to take certain issues you have with some religious convictions and color the entire group of Christians with some very negative accusations. .. kinda like Republicans are racists or do not want to help the poor.

Growing up being raised catholic, I saw the difference in a strict or lax environment from observing other people through the years. No matter the background, I'd say folks with some christian upbringing with "right" and "wrong" drilled into them to some degree... seemed to hang onto those values to some degree throughout their lives. I fail to see it in general as a bad thing at all.




The point of the article was the increasing secularization of our society does have a negative effect on the family unit.
Strong families with good parenting will create self reliant people who will contribute to society, not sit back and want the gov to take care of them.
A government getting involved in peoples lives from early on can only result in a dependent society with a total lack of self reliance. Self reliance is a good thing... don't you think?







RodB

I can think of a couple of people I personally knew who were raised in "good Christian" homes. One went to jail for stealing drugs. One is in prison for killing 4 people.

If I may present a different theory, the "good Christians" expect God to do some of the child raising, like He cares. The non believer is more prone to do things himself.

Those of us old enough to remember Dan Quayle's "Murphy Brown" speech where he got on the case of single moms; something Republicans still don't like, might, as I do, wish he'd have addressed the problem of latch key kids.

The simple truth is that families need more working members to keep the roof over their heads because middle class incomes haven't kept up with CEO bonuses. For most American families, a stay at home mom is simply impossible. It's definitely impossible for a single mom to stay at home and take care of the kids. Strangely, the Republicans keep passing laws that make for more single moms. They also fail to support any aid or help for those single moms, many of whom would abort their pregnancy, but Republicans prevent them from doing that.

It confuse md no end.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:15 PM
Now we get to uncommon ground. You will never convince the opposition that showing a "freely available" Picture ID to vote is unfair in any way. This is pure nonsense. Shall I list the things you need a picture ID to do in this country today in everyday business? Your statement is complete BS... and you know it.

Further, Obamacare is a train wreck and most folks with any commonsense want no part of it. Don't be so politically biased that you cannot admit the truth about such a cluster F... of legislation that was passed so fast with very few folks having time to read and study it. What about the fact that people now cannot keep their insurance if they like it... another lie by our President?

RodB

You are wrong on both counts.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:17 PM
There are 4,300 churches within a 30 mile radius of where Rod lives.
Rod must attend one of those churches with his family at every opportunity and leave everybody else the hell alone.

Why don't they pay property taxes? That revenue would help build schools, pave roads, etc. All things that are good for the community.

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 06:18 PM
You are wrong on both counts.

Every one of those statements that Rod makes in that post can be disproved with facts. But, really, Rod is not interested in facts. He has his beliefs, right or wrong, and nothing is going to change them.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:18 PM
I have yet to figure out why voter fraud wasn't rampant in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008?

Didn't Bush unleash all of his politically appointed Feb prosecutors to go out and prosecute voter fraud only to find out they couldn't find any?

IMHO the voter ID is simply a smokescreen to divert peoples attention from the real red meat, i.e. reducing polling hours, early voting, penalize students and their parents with tax threats and increase the number of polling places in white districts and reduce them in black districts.

Even the people who support voter ID laws can't find any fraud they will prevent. Also, all these laws cut early voting, eliminate some precincts, and some other things that no one can explain how they would cut down on fraud.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:19 PM
The real beauty in the S. Carolina law is if you are standing in line waiting to vote and the pole closes, tough luck. The pole is closed. Go home.

That's the NORTH Carolina law. SC may have its own soon enough.

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 06:21 PM
That's the NORTH Carolina law. SC may have its own soon enough.

Thanks, I got my S and N confused. :)

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:22 PM
Still with the nonsense... the state ID's are free and can be had by any state resident.

Another made up "non-issue"... made up to demonize the republicans.

RodB

Is the state going to come to my home to give me my ID? Otherwise it's not free.

I'd like to ask a serious question of you. Most states send a sample ballot to every registered voter. This is mailed a couple of weeks prior to the election. It is sent to the last address of that voter on record. It is delivered by the Postal Service. It tells the voter where he is to vote.

Why would this not be sufficient ID anywhere to vote?

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 06:22 PM
"Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”.

ccmanuals
08-26-2013, 06:27 PM
Another slick tactic targets students who overwhelmingly vote democratic. First, student ID's are not acceptable forms of ID. Second, they eliminate polling places on college campuses and make the nearest polling places considerable distance from the school. College kids don't have cars. Mission accomplished.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:53 PM
I'm confident that 99.9% of those who want to vote can and will vote with a voter ID law in place. I'm wondering how they cash a check or take a test without a photo ID?

This is just another made up issue to demonize the opposition, and you know it. Stop with the made up indignation pleeeeeease!

RodB

If one person out of a thousand is not allowed to vote, even though legally eligible, how many voters have you disenfranchised across the country?

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:55 PM
Maybe, after they were not allowed to have any input in the initial process. Do you remember the Repubs trying to put forth some of their ideas and basically being told to "go to the back of the bus and out the back door... we are driving now"...Y:o for real

RodB

Actually I remember a great deal of Republican input. They insisted on many things on Baucaus's committee. They got what they wanted and still voted NO.

John Smith
08-26-2013, 06:56 PM
Voter photo ID is not necessary, our system proves that Voter photo ID is not necessary. You can set up a fraud free system without photo ID, we manage to do so.

We, too, in the USA have a fraud free system without the photo ID.

Glen Longino
08-26-2013, 06:58 PM
RodB and the entire Fundamentalist Troglodyte community of the Dallas area are flummoxed that the majority of Dallas voters have voted For Obama in the past Two presidential elections.
It simply makes them want to chew nails and spit ball bearings, shoot their TV, kick the dog, whiiiiiiiiiiiiiine, howl at the moon, scheme and scam the system, and disenfranchise any liberal voters possible by any means possible.
Despite their self righteous posturing it is they, not imaginary illegal voters, who are the scalawags, the owlhoots, the yellow-bellied side-winders, and the enemies of liberty. And everybody with any sense whatsoever knows it!

Keith Wilson
08-26-2013, 07:00 PM
and the distinct likelihood of voter fraud with the lack of voter ID.One more time, EVIDENCE. Otherwise you're just making stuff up.

AndyG
08-26-2013, 07:23 PM
[INDENT]
Strong families with good parenting will create self reliant people who will contribute to society, not sit back and want the gov to take care of them.

Why do you begin to equate a "strong" family with a faith-based family?

Are you suggesting us atheist-based families can't instill (or, better, demonstrate the benefits of) productive self-reliance alongside a moral code in our offspring?

Andy

RodB
08-26-2013, 08:25 PM
Why do you begin to equate a "strong" family with a faith-based family?

Are you suggesting us atheist-based families can't instill (or, better, demonstrate the benefits of) productive self-reliance alongside a moral code in our offspring?

Andy



I don't really, just agreeing with the original article where she makes the point the rise of secularism leads the fall of the family in stats...



Heres some interesting comments after a Colin Powell speech on voter fraud.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Colin-Powell-There-Is-No-Voter-Fraud


Former Republican Secretary of State Colin Powell criticized North Carolina's voter ID law Thursday and claimed voter fraud did not exist in a speech attended by NC Governor Pat McCrory.

"You can say what you like, but there is no voter fraud," Powell said, according (http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/08/22/3127638/colin-powell-slams-ncs-new-voting.html) to the News & Observer. "How can it be widespread and undetected?"
According to the publication, Powell was the keynote speaker at the CEO Forum in Raleigh, North Carolina and "made his remarks moments after Gov. Pat McCrory left the stage. McCrory was in the audience for a portion of Powell’s speech."
"It immediately turns off a voting block the Republican Party needs," Powell said. "These kinds of actions do not build on the base. It just turns people away."
McCrory signed the state's voter ID bill into law last week. The law requires voters to show photo identification at the polls, cuts early voting by a week, and ends same-day registration. Student ID cards will not count an an acceptable form of identification at the polls beginning with the 2016 elections.
Powell also reportedly said of North Carolina's voter ID law, "What it really says to the minority voters is... ‘We really are sort-of punishing you.’"
McCrory's office released a statement respectfully disagreeing with Powell's assessment.
“The Governor appreciates the warm compliments Secretary Powell made today regarding many of the Governor’s initiatives and on voter ID we respectively disagree,” the statement read.


Two comments that followed the story....

Melowese Richardson would beg to differ with General Powell. A rabid Obama supporter and poll worker in Ohio, she was just sentenced to five years in prison for multiple counts of voter fraud.
Furthermore, international observers, brought in by the left last fall to monitor potential voter suppression, were stunned by the lack of fraud prevention controls. In their estimation, we were not even third world


rdman_VietVet (http://disqus.com/embed/comments/?f=breitbartproduction&t_i=0a077de2-8553-4777-9dc2-77e895979784&t_u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2FBig-Government%2F2013%2F08%2F22%2FColin-Powell-There-Is-No-Voter-Fraud&t_d=Colin%20Powell%3A%20'There%20Is%20No%20Voter%2 0Fraud'%20&t_t=Colin%20Powell%3A%20'There%20Is%20No%20Voter%2 0Fraud'%20&s_o=default&disqus_version=1377376380#) ladyjk (http://disqus.com/embed/comments/?f=breitbartproduction&t_i=0a077de2-8553-4777-9dc2-77e895979784&t_u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2FBig-Government%2F2013%2F08%2F22%2FColin-Powell-There-Is-No-Voter-Fraud&t_d=Colin%20Powell%3A%20'There%20Is%20No%20Voter%2 0Fraud'%20&t_t=Colin%20Powell%3A%20'There%20Is%20No%20Voter%2 0Fraud'%20&s_o=default&disqus_version=1377376380#comment-1014323145) •
I was in the military based in Viet Nam at the same time Powell was there. We constantly heard scuttlebutt and complaints from his people that he made politically expedient decisions to gain his promotions. Many of his orders handicapped our coordinated actions while in mortal combat conditions. His orders were reversed time and time again.
Powell’s efficiency evaluations from his superior officers stated that he was a poor leader who should not be promoted. They hated his
ass-kissing and back slapping!!
This token Affirmative Action product never accomplished anything of significance in any position he held in the military or the government.
Powell is a JUDAS weasel, a closet socialist racist. He disgraced the military uniform he wore and, at best, is an unadulterated fraud and charlatan.

MiddleAgesMan
08-26-2013, 08:27 PM
Norm, the repubicans were not allowed any input on Obamacare... REMEMBER!....RodB

No, YOU remember.

Obamacare was modeled after Romneycare in Massachusetts. It is nearly identical to what was proposed as a solution by a very famous right-wing think tank 15 or 20 years ago.

The Republicans changed their tune when THEIR ideas were co-opted by a half-black middle-of-the-road Democrat.

Keith Wilson
08-26-2013, 08:27 PM
Comments on Brietbart are not evidence. So far, you're just making stuff up.

RodB
08-26-2013, 08:36 PM
No, YOU remember.

Obamacare was modeled after Romneycare in Massachusetts. It is nearly identical to what was proposed as a solution by a very famous right-wing think tank 15 or 20 years ago.

The Republicans changed their tune when THEIR ideas were co-opted by a half-black middle-of-the-road Democrat.



Do you believe the stuff you say??? Even our dumb ass congress could see the numbers didn't work for Obamacare at the start. Their suggestions were ignored. ... period.



Comments on Brietbart are not evidence. So far, you're just making stuff up.

Keith, why don't you read the link..... lots of info from a left of center agency... and they do support your side of the argument overall. There are a few comments to say they do not know if voter ID laws would actually affect the outcome of an election.


Lots of voter fraud?
http://foxnewsinsider.com/tag/voter-fraud




MSNBC’s Hardball host Chris Matthews, who has consistently been railing against voter ID laws, admitted on Thursday night’s program that voter fraud exists, but he claims that it hasn’t changed the outcome of an election.

You guys know damn well that making voter fraud more difficult with these new laws will not change any elections but give everyone across the board a warm fuzzy feeling that the elections are fair (about the only thing fair in todays politics).


RodB

MiddleAgesMan
08-26-2013, 09:01 PM
Disenfranchising thousands of voters does not make for a fair election.

Keith Wilson
08-26-2013, 09:23 PM
Sigh . . . How many people are you willing to prevent from voting to give yourself a 'warm fuzzy feeling'? There is no evidence that voter fraud of the kind that could be prevented by ID laws is a significant problem anywhere in the US. None.

Two things that will result from making voting more difficult, both by ID laws and all the various other voting restriction schemes Republican-controlled legislatures have come up with lately.

It will prevent some people from voting, pretty much in proportion to how much they are unlike me (i.e. a well-educated, politically-aware relatively well-off middle-class middle-aged white guy with three cars, no problem getting to the polls at any reasonable time, and a pocket full of IDs). This is not a good thing, because folks like me will probably do mostly OK whoever wins. It's those more on the margins who will be more affected by changes in policy.

It will further encourage polarization, something we already have WAY too much of. When it's more inconvenient to vote, a higher proportion of voters will be those who really care about politics. These tend to be farther from the center, particularly on the right these days . The party that has spent the past twenty-five years getting more extreme has an interest in having a higher percentage of extreme voters. This not good for the country.

rbgarr
08-26-2013, 10:05 PM
The author makes a point about how Christians need to be validated for the contributions they make to society, i.e., volunteerism, charitable giving, etc.

That's a good point.

On the other hand (imo) she goes a bit overboard about how Christians are being victimized in the public square. I think that unstated privileges that Christians have traditionally taken for granted are now being questioned. Any disruption that creates may be/are real for some but aren't the end of the world:

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/05/list-of-examples-of-christian-privileg/

David G
08-26-2013, 10:10 PM
Instead,,, you should be losing faith in your usual sources of information, and in your ability to reason clearly and think critically.

Arizona Bay
08-26-2013, 10:32 PM
Instead,,, you should be losing faith in your usual sources of information, and in your ability to reason clearly and think critically.


It's Texas...

They don't do critical thinking there.

It's official: The Republican Party of Texas opposes critical thinking. That's right, drones, and it's part of their official platform.
One of our eagle-eyed readers emailed us to point out this unbelievable passage in the RPT 2012 platform (http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012Platform_Final.pdf), as adopted at their recent statewide conference.
"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/news/2012-06-27/gop-opposes-critical-thinking/

RodB
08-26-2013, 10:32 PM
Sigh, Sigh....

Most folks who are in touch with reality know you can't put anything past the current administration, including targeting conservatives via the IRS or lying to a judge to spy on a reporter or lie across the board to avoid political fallout (Benghazi)... so cheating in an election would be a small matter. Further, if there was not some advantage in the status quo, the Dems would not be raising hell to get rid of voter ID laws. No matter what this administration does... all you lefties think they are the bomb!!! Theyre not. This administration is crooked, dishonest, secretive and "non-transparent" They have no honor and will do almost anything to manipulate public opinion including lying right to the face of the families of our fallen soldiers and diplomats. They have no regard for our constitution and act like it just gets in their way.... Thy have such a majority of the press supporting them that they can base a campaign mostly on lies about the opponent and get away with it.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/tygrrrr-express/2013/may/29/president-obama-drowning-corruption-scandals/


http://www.ijreview.com/2013/08/73971-mindblowing-252-well-cited-examples-of-obama-corruption-cronyism-lying-lawbreaking/

I doubt the voter ID laws will hurt anything in our system but improve it.

RodB

Breakaway
08-26-2013, 10:44 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by RodB http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=3885299#post3885299)

After all, this nation was founded on christian ideals with of course freedom of religion.





This nation was founded on the economic ideals of wealthy slave owners.


here are millions upon millions of people in this country who are atheist, agnostic, or don't practice the religion of their upbringing.... and only a tiny fraction constitute the people who are shooters. Conversely, there are hundreds of Catholic priests who, taking a vow of obedience to the ideals of Christianity, nonetheless were shown to be pedophiles. If the latter isn't evidence of the evils of Christianity, then on what basis do you assert that the lack of religion is a cause of secular evil?




You're comparing apples and oranges, Norman. ( shooters to pedophiles) You'd need to compare all pedophiles or all shooters etc,

Kevin

RodB
08-26-2013, 10:47 PM
It's Texas...

They don't do critical thinking there.

Yeah, all the critical thinking seen in this bilge will just keep on thinking the same way till the country goes down the drain... even then you will make excuses for the horrendous policies of this administration.


RodB

Arizona Bay
08-26-2013, 10:56 PM
Fortunately O'bama's been elected twice, and has managed to slow the great flush that JrW made. Hopefully the next Dem administration can start rebuilding this place, as well as caring for, and educating it's people.

Keith Wilson
08-26-2013, 11:16 PM
I suppose I should be amused that one of the things Rod brings up as 'evidence', the IRS business, has been completely disproved, and existed only in Darrell Issa's mind, and the other (Benghazi) is just as illusory, for all it's based on real events. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. And the argument, such as it is, can be summarized as: 'if they'd do this, then they're so evil that election fraud can be assumed' -and is a compete logical fallacy.

Once again, there is absolutely no evidence that voter fraud of the kind that could be prevented by ID laws is a significant problem anywhere in the US.

elf
08-26-2013, 11:22 PM
Yeah, all the critical thinking seen in this bilge will just keep on thinking the same way till the country goes down the drain... even then you will make excuses for the horrendous policies of this administration.


RodB
Ah, a good opening.

Give us a list of these horrendous policies, Rod.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-26-2013, 11:34 PM
Norm, the repubicans were not allowed any input on Obamacare... REMEMBER!


You gott that right,Bubba. They have consistantly tried to keep the president from having any legislative victories. But in the case of Obamacare he stuffed their opposition tactics right down their throats. The passage of Obamacare was a legislative campaign for the history books.



You and I could sit down in a few hours and likely agree on 50 modifications to our healthcare system that would truly have been doing whats best for the country even if more needed to be done later on. With the monstrous train wreck of Obabacare, the administration is in essence writing the bill post passage with the regulations being added by the thousands. This is absurd... BS.

RodB

Obamacare is what it is because that was the only way to get it thru' both houses of congress. And, being a law it can be altered at any time by the same process that made it a law. It will assuredly be amended but not until the current black president has been superceded by a white president and the current racist ire has had time to cool.

Peerie Maa
08-27-2013, 03:54 AM
Whats the logic here? You conveniently declare the constitution was written long ago and is not as relevant today ... to rationalize Obama ignoring the constitution and tradition in how he has tried to govern, but then cite the basic meaning of the "right to vote" without regard to modern technology and voting booths etc... and the distinct likelihood of voter fraud with the lack of voter ID. You might not remember all the facts when Acorn got busted, but I distinctly remember some of the stories where people voted several times with the help of Acorn.

The idea that someone can show up on election day with no ID and no registration and vote is insane.

In our society you need an ID to cash a check, to rent a car, to open a bank account, to get treatment at the VA, etc, etc, etc, etc etc...

RodB

I am never asked for ID when I turn up to vote, I just present the Polling Card that was delivered to my home. Easy peasy.

Are you going to ignore this post like you have the others?

John Smith
08-27-2013, 06:26 AM
I don't really, just agreeing with the original article where she makes the point the rise of secularism leads the fall of the family in stats...



Heres some interesting comments after a Colin Powell speech on voter fraud.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/22/Colin-Powell-There-Is-No-Voter-Fraud



Two comments that followed the story....






I have very dim memories, but memories none the less, of good Christian families putting their left-handed members through hell. To some, I suppose, those were the good old days. I also remember the fire and brimstone of "Spare the whip and spoil the child."

I'd really like to know how religious teachings have made anyone a better person.

John Smith
08-27-2013, 06:30 AM
Do you believe the stuff you say??? Even our dumb ass congress could see the numbers didn't work for Obamacare at the start. Their suggestions were ignored. ... period.




Keith, why don't you read the link..... lots of info from a left of center agency... and they do support your side of the argument overall. There are a few comments to say they do not know if voter ID laws would actually affect the outcome of an election.


Lots of voter fraud?
http://foxnewsinsider.com/tag/voter-fraud






You guys know damn well that making voter fraud more difficult with these new laws will not change any elections but give everyone across the board a warm fuzzy feeling that the elections are fair (about the only thing fair in todays politics).


RodB

As to the ACA, the CBO ran the numbers and determined it will save us money. Can you point to anything bad predicted about this bill that has turned out to be true? Predictions were all wrong, no. We don't know how accurate predictions of things not in place will be, but why would we expect them to be more accurate?

John Smith
08-27-2013, 06:34 AM
Sigh, Sigh....

Most folks who are in touch with reality know you can't put anything past the current administration, including targeting conservatives via the IRS or lying to a judge to spy on a reporter or lie across the board to avoid political fallout (Benghazi)... so cheating in an election would be a small matter. Further, if there was not some advantage in the status quo, the Dems would not be raising hell to get rid of voter ID laws. No matter what this administration does... all you lefties think they are the bomb!!! Theyre not. This administration is crooked, dishonest, secretive and "non-transparent" They have no honor and will do almost anything to manipulate public opinion including lying right to the face of the families of our fallen soldiers and diplomats. They have no regard for our constitution and act like it just gets in their way.... Thy have such a majority of the press supporting them that they can base a campaign mostly on lies about the opponent and get away with it.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/tygrrrr-express/2013/may/29/president-obama-drowning-corruption-scandals/


http://www.ijreview.com/2013/08/73971-mindblowing-252-well-cited-examples-of-obama-corruption-cronyism-lying-lawbreaking/

I doubt the voter ID laws will hurt anything in our system but improve it.

RodB

You do realize the entire IRS "scandal" has been debunked, and it also targeted liberal groups and actually denied some of them tax exempt status. The right wing groups that have been complaining all got the status they sought. There is also a lawsuit underway to get the IRS to change their language back to what the law actually said.

The law said a group had to work "exclusively" for the public good. In 1959 someone in the IRS changed the word "exclusively" to "primarily" and that caused a problem. It is hardly a scandal, and it is definitely not a problem that Obama had anything to do with.

John Smith
08-27-2013, 06:39 AM
You gott that right,Bubba. They have consistantly tried to keep the president from having any legislative victories. But in the case of Obamacare he stuffed their opposition tactics right down their throats. The passage of Obamacare was a legislative campaign for the history books.




Obamacare is what it is because that was the only way to get it thru' both houses of congress. And, being a law it can be altered at any time by the same process that made it a law. It will assuredly be amended but not until the current black president has been superceded by a white president and the current racist ire has had time to cool.

My recollection is different. I recall many compromises in order to get Republican votes. They got their compromise, but still voted against the bill. There was a LOT of input from Republicans in the ACA. That is why there was no public option. It's probably why single payer got no seat at the table.

Let us not confuse the fact that Republicans didn't vote for it as them not having had any input.

John Smith
08-27-2013, 06:42 AM
I am never asked for ID when I turn up to vote, I just present the Polling Card that was delivered to my home. Easy peasy.

Are you going to ignore this post like you have the others?

I asked in a post here yesterday of Rob B why the sample ballot sent to me by the election people should not be adequate as a ticket to vote. I haven't noticed a reply to that question, and I doubt I'll get one.

These ballots, and I suppose your card, are sent to all registered voters at the last address on record. They are delivered here by the Postal service. They direct me to the proper polling place.

I see no reason why anyone would need any further ID.

Flying Orca
08-27-2013, 06:58 AM
Nope.

Fair is fair...republicans legislators were against single payer, but the "Blue Dog" democrats are the reason it sank without a trace.

I was talking historically, not just the latest go-round, but point taken, thanks.

Flying Orca
08-27-2013, 07:08 AM
she goes a bit overboard about how Christians are being victimized in the public square. I think that unstated privileges that Christians have traditionally taken for granted are now being questioned. Any disruption that creates may be/are real for some but aren't the end of the world:

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/05/list-of-examples-of-christian-privileg/

That's an excellent link.

Keith Wilson
08-27-2013, 07:27 AM
Being good parents is very important. I think the idea that there's some connection between traditional Christian religiosity and good parenting is completely unsupported by evidence.

I get soooo tired of the nonsensical whining BS about how Christians are allegedly picked on, also completely unsupported by evidence.

.

John Smith
08-27-2013, 08:36 AM
My assumptions as to what a good family needs would likely be different from those of others.

I would start with sufficient financial security so as not to have that stress on the family. Every family member having health insurance would, I think, be a "family value" all would support. I suspect it helps if mom and/or dad set good examples so the kids don't live under a "Do as I say, not as I do" environment.

I think religious beliefs undermine family values. Where they don't teach honest sex education, there are more teen pregnancies, not less. The religiously inclined would rather the public schools not educate our youth in such areas, but they send their kids to Sunday school to learn about this stuff. Teach the kids that masturbation will lead to hairy palms. And other falsehoods.

I guess this all goes along with their believing in miracles.

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-27-2013, 08:52 AM
The following link is quite informative but fails to convince me that folks who want to vote do not have the opportunity to get an ID to vote in future elections. If you read all of it , it doesn't look like a voter ID law would change the outcome of an election because people who want to vote have so much time to get the ID before an election.


http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

Oh yeah, Obamacare is a train wreck... just keep ignoring the news...




The link above seems to be a fair report of the issue at hand. The amount of voter fraud and the actual difficulty in folks getting a photo ID are both a bit exaggerated IMHO. If you are an older person who is poor but wants to vote in the national election you have plenty of time to get an ID... its all about deciding to take advantage of your privilege to vote and following the rules.

The Democratic reaction to voter ID laws is way over the top and disingenuous .

RodB

The abilty to vote is a constitutionally guaranteed RIGHT not a privelege like getting a drivers license. Voters need to establish their bona fides by registering. Demanding more than that gets into the state's right to ask for more. If they are asking for more is it to rectify an actual situation or are they trying to do a favor for one party or the other? If the state demands more might that abrogate someone's right to cast a ballot?
What the state of Texas does has been closely watched by the federal courts because of past transgressions. Texans can believe they are God's chosen people but none of that will get them much traction in a federal court room.
The state of Texas is currently being challenged for their voter ID laws. The Texas attorney general has answered the charges by admitting the law may have eucred some minorty voters out of their vote. But, he claims that result was a "disparate" outcome. What they had intended was to drive the Texas Democratic Party into the gound.

Keith Wilson
08-27-2013, 08:53 AM
. . . but they send their kids to Sunday school to learn about this stuff. One more time: all religions are not alike. The Unitarian-Universalists run a very, very comprehensive sex-ed course (look here (http://www.uua.org/re/owl/)). Both of my kids went. There's a requirement that the parents go through an abbreviated version in advance, where they show all the pictures so nobody will be surprised. No punches pulled, no BS, correct and complete information throughout; there was even some stuff I didn't know. My daughter became the preferred source of accurate information for all her friends, particularly those whose parents went to conservative churches and thought 'just say no' was sufficient. She's not easily embarrassed, to say the least.

John of Phoenix
08-27-2013, 09:37 AM
Most folks who are in touch with reality...Rod, you'll NEVER convince ANYONE that YOU are in touch with reality. You can delete this thread and vaporize everything you've ever posted but you can't back what you've put into the universe. You're branded.

John Smith
08-27-2013, 09:48 AM
One more time: all religions are not alike. The Unitarian-Universalists run a very, very comprehensive sex-ed course (look here (http://www.uua.org/re/owl/)). Both of my kids went. There's a requirement that the parents go through an abbreviated version in advance, where they show all the pictures so nobody will be surprised. No punches pulled, no BS, correct and complete information throughout; there was even some stuff I didn't know. My daughter became the preferred source of accurate information for all her friends, particularly those whose parents went to conservative churches and thought 'just say no' was sufficient. She's not easily embarrassed, to say the least.

They are obviously not among those afraid to talk to their kids about sex. I would say this makes them unique.

rbgarr
08-27-2013, 10:03 AM
Obamacare a 'train-wreck'? Probably not as much as some predict (or maybe hope for, at worst): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/opinion/krugman-one-reform-indivisible.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&_r=0

The 'train-wreck meme' arose out of predictions that the roll-out wouldn't succeed, i.e., people eligible wouldn't sign up or be aware of their eligibility. It seems that awareness is sufficiently high that enrollment will succeed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/23/these-three-paragraphs-say-everything-about-obamacare/

RodB
08-28-2013, 05:00 AM
Obamacare a 'train-wreck'? Probably not as much as some predict (or maybe hope for, at worst): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/op...t&emc=rss&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/19/opinion/krugman-one-reform-indivisible.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&_r=0)

The 'train-wreck meme' arose out of predictions that the roll-out wouldn't succeed, i.e., people eligible wouldn't sign up or be aware of their eligibility. It seems that awareness is sufficiently high that enrollment will succeed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...out-obamacare/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/23/these-three-paragraphs-say-everything-about-obamacare/)


Last edited by rbgarr; 08-27-2013 at 10:13 A

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/08/22/obamacare-affordable-care-act-your-say/2690083/

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/08/02/businesses-go-into-obamacare-survival-mode-dems-fight-back-80837

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/08/25/obamacare-endangers-obamacare/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/08/22/local-governments-cutting-hours-over-obamacare-costs/


WE WILL SEE...

RodB