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ccmanuals
08-07-2013, 10:33 AM
Last night the Daily Show did a segment regarding tax reform and how terrified our elected representatives are to be even associated with it. Was pretty good.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-6-2013/don-t-mess-with-taxes?xrs=share_copy

John Smith
08-08-2013, 07:47 AM
This is another one of those areas where we can't seem to get a good discussion going. Allow me to put some ideas on the table and see if anyone likes or hates them.

Let's begin by accepting the fact that everything is paid for by taxing the wealth created by the private sector.

Then let's consider a formula similar to the ACA requiring 80/85% of total revenue going into benefits, and let's give a business a total tax exemption if a certain percentage of their total revenue goes to wages, and not just the executives. Maybe all raises would have to be across the board, even if only equal in percentages. If one person gets and 10% increase, everyone gets a 10% increase.

Then we might put together a tax schedule that lets us fund our government simply through the income tax. Personally, I'd not begin taxing until, perhaps, $20k per year. No income tax. No payroll deductions. Then I would have no top income limit on those payroll taxes. I'd also have a rate that progresses up until some point, maybe all income over $50 million is taxes 100%.

Some will say that's punishing the extremely wealthy, but even in today's world, I think there's a point where no one needs more money and, likely, they have no idea what to do with it.

We do have to stop taking in less than we spend, and I want my government to have the money to keep our infrastructure up to date, and help make college much less costly, and other things I think we need it to do.

Paul Pless
08-08-2013, 07:50 AM
Then let's consider a formula similar to the ACA requiring 80/85% of total revenue going into benefits, and let's give a business a total tax exemption if a certain percentage of their total revenue goes to wagesyou really hate capitalism don't you?

Keith Wilson
08-08-2013, 08:21 AM
You might want to read Chris Ross's very astute comment on the corporate taxes thread. The structure of taxes paid by companies has changed dramatically over the past 50 or 60 years from mostly taxation of profits, to mostly taxation of wages (at a flat rate with a cap, even). You think this might have an effect?

OTOH, any discussion of tax reform is a purely theoretical exercise right now. The current crop of Republican extremists in the House make it completely impossible.

John Smith
08-08-2013, 08:52 AM
you really hate capitalism don't you?

No. I pointed out, I you noticed, that it is taxing the wealth created by the private sector that pays for everything. I hate Capitalism when it is allowed to run amuck. Unfettered, it bring us child labor, slave wages, unsafe working conditions, and pollutes our planet. We see that last part with fracking being exempt from clean water laws.

No business, no matter how private, functions without an infrastructure that the government provides. That is not just the infrastructure related to shipping, but the internet and running water. It is the contract laws and the mechanism to enforce them.

The goal, at least for me, is to find a way to encourage business to make things here and have the economy we like to believe we have, but haven't had in a long time. I believe if we go to single payer health care it will do a lot towards creating American jobs. I believe we can put in place a tax system that encourages the creation of American jobs.

I also believe those jobs have to pay a living wage.

We can, I think, grow back to the economic power we like to think we are. Then we can use that power to trade, or refuse to trade, with nations who don't pay living wages, or don't have safe working conditions, etc.

The government most certainly does have a role to play in how the private sector functions.

The key, IMO, is to find the proper balance between the government and the private sector.

John Smith
08-08-2013, 09:01 AM
You might want to read Chris Ross's very astute comment on the corporate taxes thread. The structure of taxes paid by companies has changed dramatically over the past 50 or 60 years from mostly taxation of profits, to mostly taxation of wages (at a flat rate with a cap, even). You think this might have an effect?

OTOH, any discussion of tax reform is a purely theoretical exercise right now. The current crop of Republican extremists in the House make it completely impossible.

This group of Republicans ignores a lot of the history it cites. I don't see that changing. When Reagan ended the tax deduction for credit card, auto, and personal loan interest, that equaled a tax increase for most Americans.

I'll not argue that our government doesn't screw up from time to time; it's run by people. I would argue that we need the government and much of what it does improves our lives every day; often in ways we take for granted.

As with everything else, if we want our government to function well we must be prepared to fund it adequately. I find it hypocritical for those who think throwing money at defense helps, but throwing money at anything else doesn't help.

Tax reform has to be more complex than simply cutting taxes. Cutting taxes in the early Bush years is a major contributor to our rising debt. As were the two pointless wars.

Had we not suffered those tax cuts, and had we not started those two wars, we'd be in much better shape today. I suspect we'd be well on our way to an vastly improved infrastructure.

At some point in time we will not have the luxury of putting off repairing/modernizing our infrastructure. Does anyone doubt it will be more costly if we put it off?

The big question here is what is tax reform? How do we fund our government properly.

The good old days that I get emails longing for had an upper income tax rate of 90%. Apparently that worked well for the country, and the people in that bracket had big houses, summer homes, and all the things money can provide.

amirlincoln
09-10-2013, 10:41 PM
I can't see any reform as of now, there is no change happened. Well, here is a report I heard. According to the Associated Press, some families that are unable to afford the family healthcare plans (http://personalmoneynetwork.com/moneyblog/2013/02/01/obamacare-glitch/) offered by their employers will be excluded from receiving public assistance to help them pay for a policy from a private insurance carrier. They will therefore then have to pay the same penalty as those who have decided to opt out of the federal healthcare program.

Waddie
09-11-2013, 01:47 AM
Tax rates are already low for business, but their cost of labor benefits is way up. It would still be cheaper for them to just not hire.


John Smith; I'd not begin taxing until, perhaps, $20k per year. No income tax. No payroll deductions.

They don't pay federal tax now. You would exclude them from SS and Medicare?

regards,
Waddie