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View Full Version : Is THIS a freedom od speach issue?



Peerie Maa
08-06-2013, 06:42 AM
Some posting to other threads argue that "Freedom of speech" does include freedom to behave like a complete arse.
How far would you allow it to go?
Teenager Hannah Smith killed herself because of online bullying, says father'How many more will kill themselves before something is done,' Dave Smith says, as he calls for ask.fm to be closed down (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/aug/06/hannah-smith-online-bullying)

skuthorp
08-06-2013, 06:48 AM
Charge the perp's with manslaughter, and if necessary alter the law to cover it. Covering it under Stalking legislation is the first step. "Recent changes to the Victorian Crimes Act (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/) now mean that repeated acts of bullying are now classified in Victoria under the criminal offence of stalking.In theory, if not in practice, bullying – either at work, at school or online (cyber-bullying) – is now punishable by a maximum term of 10 years imprisonment."
Workplace bullying resulted in a woman suiciding here, and the offenders are doing jail time.

JimD
08-06-2013, 06:55 AM
repeated acts of bullying are now classified in Victoria under the criminal offence of stalkingI like this.

pefjr
08-06-2013, 07:36 AM
A strange log off.

PhaseLockedLoop
08-06-2013, 11:31 AM
Some posting to other threads argue that "Freedom of speech" does include freedom to behave like a complete arse.
How far would you allow it to go?
Teenager Hannah Smith killed herself because of online bullying, says father'How many more will kill themselves before something is done,' Dave Smith says, as he calls for ask.fm to be closed down (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/aug/06/hannah-smith-online-bullying)

Is there any reason to believe the father? Anything's possible, but for a "...bubbly, bright, cheerful and never had a glum face" girl to hang herself because anonymous people who didn't know who she was posted slighting things about "her," doesn't seem to me likely. It seems these people didn't know much about their kid, and now they're blaming the internet. Years ago it would've been the daemonic lyrics of rock-n-roll songs.

Apparently they didn't keep their daughter from using ask.x, so now they want to prevent everyone from using it. This is backwards, in my opinion.

PhaseLockedLoop
08-06-2013, 11:46 AM
Charge the perp's with manslaughter, and if necessary alter the law to cover it...

Is there any reason, other than the father and stepmother's opinion, to believe that the bullying was the proximate cause, or even related at all, to the suicide?

At work and at school, I agree that bullying can, in extreme cases, amount to stalking, in which case the victim can get a court order to stop it. On an online forum, all you have to do is quit logging in, and that's the end of the bullying.

Ten years? Hereabouts, you can beat the living $hit out of someone and you'll only get a year or two at most, so why bully? You can just smack 'em down.

Peerie Maa
08-06-2013, 12:30 PM
Is there any reason to believe the father? Anything's possible, but for a "...bubbly, bright, cheerful and never had a glum face" girl to hang herself because anonymous people who didn't know who she was posted slighting things about "her," doesn't seem to me likely. It seems these people didn't know much about their kid, and now they're blaming the internet. Years ago it would've been the daemonic lyrics of rock-n-roll songs.

Apparently they didn't keep their daughter from using ask.x, so now they want to prevent everyone from using it. This is backwards, in my opinion.

Think it does not happen?

Bullying and Suicide

There is a strong link between bullying and suicide, as suggested by recent bullying-related suicides in the US and other countries. Parents, teachers, and students learn the dangers of bullying and help students who may be at risk of committing suicide.


In recent years, a series of bullying-related suicides in the US and across the globe have drawn attention to the connection between bullying and suicide. Though too many adults still see bullying as "just part of being a kid," it is a serious problem that leads to many negative effects for victims, including suicide. Many people may not realize that there is also a link between being a bully and committing suicide.
The statistics on bullying and suicide are alarming:


Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people, resulting in about 4,400 deaths per year, according to the CDC. For every suicide among young people, there are at least 100 suicide attempts. Over 14 percent of high school students have considered suicide, and almost 7 percent have attempted it.
Bully victims are between 2 to 9 times more likely to consider suicide than non-victims, according to studies by Yale University
A study in Britain found that at least half of suicides among young people are related to bullying
10 to 14 year old girls may be at even higher risk for suicide, according to the study above
According to statistics reported by ABC News, nearly 30 percent of students are either bullies or victims of bullying, and 160,000 kids stay home from school every day because of fear of bullying


From http://www.bullyingstatistics.org/content/bullying-and-suicide.html

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=cyber%20bullying#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&ei=wjEBUsWXNZCYhQfzn4DIBg&fp=baa17e401e6bf0aa&hl=en&q=suicide+due+to+cyberbullying&revid=442772091&sa=X&ved=0CHQQ1QIoAg

pefjr
08-06-2013, 02:20 PM
[QUOTE=Peerie Maa;3865488]Think it does not happen?[QUOTE]online? far fetched.

Captain Intrepid
08-06-2013, 02:27 PM
It happens online all the time. You'd have to be a creaking old fuddy-duddy to deny it. The internet is a key part of a young person's social life these days. Bullying isn't something you can escape from just by going home anymore, it follows you everywhere.

pefjr
08-06-2013, 05:49 PM
It happens online all the time. You'd have to be a creaking old fuddy-duddy to deny it. The internet is a key part of a young person's social life these days. Bullying isn't something you can escape from just by going home anymore, it follows you everywhere.Not into the courtroom.

skuthorp
08-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Sounds simple pefjr, but it isn't. Several high profile firm of lawyers here with unpopular cases have had to shut down their sites and provide their partners with security because of what could be termed 'bullying'. Given them quite a shock, 'guns for hire' are not used to being held jointly responsible with their clients.

Captain Intrepid
08-06-2013, 07:15 PM
Not into the courtroom.

You're wrong.

PeterSibley
08-06-2013, 07:38 PM
Is there any reason, other than the father and stepmother's opinion, to believe that the bullying was the proximate cause, or even related at all, to the suicide?

At work and at school, I agree that bullying can, in extreme cases, amount to stalking, in which case the victim can get a court order to stop it. On an online forum, all you have to do is quit logging in, and that's the end of the bullying.

Ten years? Hereabouts, you can beat the living $hit out of someone and you'll only get a year or two at most, so why bully? You can just smack 'em down.

You don't know much about kids do you ?

pefjr
08-06-2013, 07:54 PM
Your wrong.link?

Captain Intrepid
08-06-2013, 08:19 PM
link?
Post #2 is a good start.

pefjr
08-06-2013, 09:16 PM
Post #2 is a good start. I saw it, did you see 'In Theory' and 'WorkPlace bullying'. No online case has been cited.

Captain Intrepid
08-06-2013, 09:28 PM
The law has just been changed. We'll have to see if it holds up, but it is on the books. If you know anything about young people, you'll know a test case will come far too soon.

skuthorp
08-07-2013, 06:50 AM
I saw it, did you see 'In Theory' and 'WorkPlace bullying'. No online case has been cited.
Looked for the link pefjr but I cannot remember the 'name' of the law or the case. I could do more research but life is short. But the law, and the case does exist. The 'in theory' bit is, I think, reluctance to prosecute stalking cases against 12 year old schoolgirls.

Peerie Maa
08-08-2013, 03:58 AM
And so it goes on:

A 16-year-old girl is being targeted by internet trolls less than a week after her younger sister was driven to suicide by bullies on the controversial website Ask.Fm.
Jo Morris described how, just days after discovering her younger sister Hannah Smith’s body, she begun receiving abusive messages on Facebook mocking her loss and blaming her grieving father’s parenting skills for the tragic death.
And she also revealed that a Hannah’s Facebook tribute page has been targeted by trolls calling her a “coward” for taking her own life and saying she “deserved” to die.

< . . . . .>


So far the deaths of four teenagers have been linked to ask.fm - a social networking tool which has recorded extraordinary growth since it was founded by two brothers in the Latvian capital in 2010.
Today, more than 65m people have joined - half of them aged under-18. Its iPhone and Android apps are bestsellers and 300,000 new users sign up each day. The site is hugely popular in Brazil, Columbia, Germany, Canada and, of course, Britain.
Niall Cowley, international director of the charity BeatBullying said it was the anonymity that was proving the huge draw for young people. “It is a massive concern,” he said.
Whereas Facebook and others had engaged with governments and NGOs on the subject, ask.fm was “doing nothing”, he added.
“Anonymity increases disinhibition. You think you will get away with it and that there is no recourse so you are more likely to behave in a way that you would never do in real life,” said Mr Cowley.
Teenage victims of cyber-bullying
Hannah Smith, 14, was found hanged at her home in Lutterworth, Leicestershire last week. She had been abused by trolls over her weight and a family death as well as being accused of self-harming. Bullies urged her to drink bleach and cut herself on ask.fm. Her father has called on the Prime Minister to clamp down on the site.
Ciara Pugsley, 15, from Leitrim, Republic of Ireland, died last year after being subjected to a torrent of abuse over her weight and mental health. Despite standing up to her anonymous bullies she took her own life. Her death prompted calls for action in Ireland to against bullies using social media.
Erin Gallagher, 13, was discovered by relatives at her home in Ballybofey, Donegal, just 24 hours after threatening suicide. She had been physically and mentally bullied by tormentors. Police seized computers after her death in October last year but no one has been charged.
Joshua Unsworth, 15, from Goosnargh near Preston, Lancashire had offered to help other teenagers suffering from online bullying cope. However the teenager, described as a “thoughtful, loving and compassionate boy” took his own life in April. Messages posted on his site said: “You really are a freak’, ‘no one likes you’ and ‘you deserve sick things to happen to you”.

from: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/hannah-smith-suicide-internet-trolls-target-sister-of-tragic-teenager-who-was-was-driven-to-suicide-by-cyberbullies-8749648.html

isla
08-08-2013, 06:37 AM
This sort of abuse happens to grown-ups too. Feminist Caroline Criado-Perez received abuse on Twitter after lobbying the Bank of England to put Jane Austen on the new £10 note. MP Stella Creasy and other women also received abuse after expressing support for her. The nature of the abuse was pretty appalling, with threats of rape along the lines of "I will find you and f*** you till you die" etc. Some of the trolls have now been unmasked following investigation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383808/The-women-hating-Twitter-trolls-unmasked-From-respected-military-man-public-schoolboy-men-anonymously-spew-vile-abuse-online.html

John Smith
08-08-2013, 09:27 AM
Is there any reason, other than the father and stepmother's opinion, to believe that the bullying was the proximate cause, or even related at all, to the suicide?

At work and at school, I agree that bullying can, in extreme cases, amount to stalking, in which case the victim can get a court order to stop it. On an online forum, all you have to do is quit logging in, and that's the end of the bullying.

Ten years? Hereabouts, you can beat the living $hit out of someone and you'll only get a year or two at most, so why bully? You can just smack 'em down.

Interesting question. I suppose it's a good thing if bullying under any circumstances can be viewed as a crime and prosecuted accordingly.

On the other hand, why convict anyone of anything when the no one on Wall Street's been charged, no one responsible for our torturing has been charged, not one at BP has been charged, etc.........