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ccmanuals
08-05-2013, 09:49 AM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png

Gerarddm
08-05-2013, 09:52 AM
"Only a pawn in their game"
- Bob Dylan

Concordia 33
08-05-2013, 09:59 AM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png

Pretty pessimistic view of mankind, and one to which I do not subscribe. LBJ was better know and a political bas***d than a great philosopher.

Captain Intrepid
08-05-2013, 10:12 AM
Giving someone a target to hate has always been a highly effective method of political control.

Let us all prepare for the daily Two Minutes Hate.

Durnik
08-05-2013, 10:40 AM
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man..."

& that is exactly why so many 'white men' are so very angry with Barack Obama. He is living, in their face proof that a thought they have invested their life in - that they are better then all colored men - is a complete lie. Instead of attacking they who have perpetuated the lie, they attack he who holds the light to the lie.

enjoy
bobby

pefjr
08-05-2013, 10:55 AM
Giving someone a target to hate has always been a highly effective method of political control.

Let us all prepare for the daily Two Minutes Hate.:d:d........ as for the question, I think CC should answer his own question as it was he who thought it important enough to thread. The question reminds me of the necessity of a god in your political platform. Without a god in the dem platform, Obama knew it would restrict his pick pocketing.:d Hell....Evangelists and the vatican got rich on the knowledge.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2013, 11:04 AM
seems to apply here. all the bilge left looks down on republicans

pipefitter
08-05-2013, 11:20 AM
Sympathy, is also a form of looking down upon when it is not wanted.

Rich Jones
08-05-2013, 11:27 AM
Taking race out of the equation, I firmly believe that all lower and middle class folks who vote Republican (no matter what the reason) are voting against their own interests.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2013, 11:35 AM
Taking race out of the equation, I firmly believe that all lower and middle class folks who vote Republican (no matter what the reason) are voting against their own interests.

if a bank robber drops his cash as he runs past, it is against the immediate best interest of anyone who might be standing close to turn it in to the bank... so much for the best interest argument.

Gerarddm
08-05-2013, 12:47 PM
all the bilge left looks down on republicans

As well they should.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2013, 12:48 PM
As well they should.

you need to re read the op now... Einstein

hanleyclifford
08-05-2013, 12:55 PM
This thread is a splendid example of two minute Bilge hate mongering.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2013, 01:33 PM
This thread is a splendid example of two minute Bilge hate mongering.

I see you read that book too :)

John Smith
08-05-2013, 01:39 PM
seems to apply here. all the bilge left looks down on republicans

They have earned our disrespect. Find me one thing they've gotten right since '92.

I think Johnson was on the right track. Racism has an interesting history for those who will view it objectively. Most whites sincerely believed black men could not fly planes in WWII. They were proven wrong. Most whites did not believe a black man could play quarterback, They were proven wrong.

I grew up with news reporting crimes committed by "black" men, but only by "men" if the suspects were white.

I remember the white folks in New Orleans were heroically gathering stuff for the needs of their families, while the black folks doing the same thing were looting.

Race is just one part of this. Religion is another part. People in any religion feel they are superior to those in another religion, or those with no religion.

Recently we've managed to divide people into another group; public employees vs private sector employees. We've seen a case being made, and be accepted, for too many teachers, or too high pay for teachers, costing others their jobs in the private sector, although no one can point to a single job lost due to too many teachers.

Some people simply believe what they want, and they want to feel someone else is responsible for their plight. Someone else likely is, but it's probably not the public employee and it's probably not those people of color.

John Smith
08-05-2013, 01:40 PM
if a bank robber drops his cash as he runs past, it is against the immediate best interest of anyone who might be standing close to turn it in to the bank... so much for the best interest argument.

That's a lame argument. If one candidate wants to pass laws so YOUR pension is secure and the other wants your pension to be at risk, and you vote for the latter, don't complain when your pension isn't there.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2013, 01:52 PM
That's a lame argument. If one candidate wants to pass laws so YOUR pension is secure and the other wants your pension to be at risk, and you vote for the latter, don't complain when your pension isn't there.

we disagree

pefjr
08-05-2013, 01:59 PM
They have earned our disrespect. Find me one thing they've gotten right since '92.

John, excuse me while I laugh a second...... ok... now... John, this thread is about a statement made by LBJ, back when as you boys have attempted to prove a thousand times
, long before 92, when the Repubs were really the dems and the dems had not switched to the Repubs yet , and yadda yadda. I think we all need a scorecard to keep up with who is ridiculing whom, and that is why we have Osborne and CC to label us as chimps, rw nuts, and no nothings. Carry on :D

ccmanuals
08-05-2013, 02:41 PM
John, excuse me while I laugh a second...... ok... now... John, this thread is about a statement made by LBJ, back when as you boys have attempted to prove a thousand times
, long before 92, when the Repubs were really the dems and the dems had not switched to the Repubs yet , and yadda yadda. I think we all need a scorecard to keep up with who is ridiculing whom, and that is why we have Osborne and CC to label us as chimps, rw nuts, and no nothings. Carry on :D

if by "us" you mean republicans and tparty it seems to fit,

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?166066-Defunding-non-existent-groups

Osborne Russell
08-05-2013, 02:52 PM
Yes.

pefjr
08-05-2013, 02:56 PM
if by "us" you mean republicans and tparty it seems to fit,
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?166066-Defunding-non-existent-groups "IF" is a big word, too big for you. However since you are the expert at labeling and the fitness of it, maybe you can explain what Johnson meant by 'lowest white man', and 'best colored man'?

Osborne Russell
08-05-2013, 02:59 PM
LBJ was better know and a political bas***d than a great philosopher.

Oh yeah, if anything characterizes a Republican, it's their veneration of philosophers over politicians.

Canoeyawl
08-05-2013, 03:10 PM
It is amazing that they can still convince them after all these years...

Concordia 33
08-05-2013, 03:11 PM
Oh yeah, if anything characterizes a Republican, it's their veneration of philosophers over politicians.

I don't think I was doing that. I was pointing out a pretty well known fact. Are you deliberately trying to be contentious?

ccmanuals
08-05-2013, 03:34 PM
"IF" is a big word, too big for you. However since you are the expert at labeling and the fitness of it, maybe you can explain what Johnson meant by 'lowest white man', and 'best colored man'?

You are the self proclaimed expert on everyone's motivation, you tell us what he meant.

Phillip Allen
08-05-2013, 03:39 PM
You are the self proclaimed expert on everyone's motivation, you tell us what he meant.

he said it at a cabinet meeting... :)

David W Pratt
08-05-2013, 03:42 PM
Well, I am a proud Texas-ex, and it hurts my heart to slam Landslide Lyndon, but he got us into Viet Nam (58,000 dead, unknown damaged) and his great society mistakenly used race as a proxy for socioeconomic stratum.

John of Phoenix
08-05-2013, 03:43 PM
You are the self proclaimed expert on everyone's motivation, you tell us what he meant.And he (supposedly) teaches reading comprehension classes every Friday.

pefjr
08-05-2013, 04:13 PM
You are the self proclaimed expert on everyone's motivation, you tell us what he meant.You first, you can even consult with your cheerleader.

MikeWinVA
08-05-2013, 06:01 PM
Johnson was a racist and a bigot. It was his ilk and the democrats that fought tooth and nail during the 60's to keep the south a quasi-apartheid state. It was democrats like him that created Jim Crow laws.

Johnson once sent an aide who was African American to Texas to get his car while he was in the Senate. He had him take a note and told him not to open it and to hand it to the police if he was pulled over while driving. Needless to say the aide was pulled over and handed the note to the police officer. When asked what the note said the officer said "It says that you are Senator Johnson's n***er and to allow you go bring his car to Washington, DC." That is the kind of man Johnson was.

S.V. Airlie
08-05-2013, 06:14 PM
As well they should. Actually,I suspect most Reps. in the bilge look down on liberals. Liberals love listening to the whining and throwing money every which way although money does not solve the problems that exist. They think it does!

G.Sherman
08-05-2013, 06:22 PM
As an inveterate campaign manipulator, Johnson was the equal of no man..... His policies were a reflection of his affection for JFK and that was all for the good. He was also smart enough to realize when to get out, as evidenced by his dramatic television appearance to announce his political intensions. He was he last ethical Texan to be or to run for the Presidency.

CWSmith
08-05-2013, 06:22 PM
Pretty pessimistic view of mankind, and one to which I do not subscribe. LBJ was better know and a political bas***d than a great philosopher.

Agreed - a bas***d politician because he was so good at it. He called it right.


Johnson was a racist and a bigot. It was his ilk and the democrats that fought tooth and nail during the 60's to keep the south a quasi-apartheid state. It was democrats like him that created Jim Crow laws.


And the last man to write the laws that MLK marched for, except he did. He knew he was losing the South for a generation when he did it, but he did it - bigot and all.

Nicholas Scheuer
08-05-2013, 06:27 PM
NOBODY ever put it better than LBJ! He knew the voters better than nearly any other politician.

S.V. Airlie
08-05-2013, 06:33 PM
He certainly knew when to bow out in '68.

wardd
08-05-2013, 06:40 PM
Pretty pessimistic view of mankind, and one to which I do not subscribe. LBJ was better know and a political bas***d than a great philosopher.

are republicans part of mankind?

i thought they had no use for the common man

wardd
08-05-2013, 06:42 PM
seems to apply here. all the bilge left looks down on republicans

yes, i do look down on those that want to make my circumstances worse

wardd
08-05-2013, 06:43 PM
Sympathy, is also a form of looking down upon when it is not wanted.

sympathy is an attitude not a behavior

Cuyahoga Chuck
08-05-2013, 08:36 PM
Johnson was a first water politician. And Texas was , and maybe still is, a place where politics is a contact sport.
After being beaten in an election by mysterious uncounted ballots that dropped from the heavens and gave his opponent the victory, Johnson made certain that next time any recurance would be answered by his own boxes of heaven-sent ballots that made him the winner.

What brought him down was his belief that his political talents would get him thru' the crises brought about by a never-ending war.

Gerarddm
08-05-2013, 09:40 PM
Einstein

Thanks!

:d

When I think of LBJ, I think of that excerpt of him at the beginning of Killing Floor by The Electric Flag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq3NwCHm-4U

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 09:26 AM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png


Pretty pessimistic view of mankind, and one to which I do not subscribe. LBJ was better know and a political bas***d than a great philosopher.

LBJ was a political genius. Whether you liked what he did, or not, he had the mojo to get his way.

The quote, above, is just about as accurate a statement as one can find concerning the exploitation of racism by Big Politics in this country.

bobbys
10-05-2013, 10:51 AM
By Barrett Tillman and Henry Sakaida
Lieutenant Commander Lyndon B. Johnson, a Texas congressman temporarily serving in the U.S. Navy, received his nation’s third-highest combat decoration while on a 1942 fact-finding mission. The future president was so proud of his award that he wore the silver lapel pin for the rest of his life.
The Silver Star citation, issued by General Douglas MacArthur’s chief of staff, says in part: "While on a mission of obtaining information in the Southwest Pacific Area, Lieutenant Commander Johnson, in order to obtain personal knowledge of combat conditions, volunteered as an observer on a hazardous aerial combat mission over hostile positions in New Guinea. As our planes neared the target area, they were intercepted by eight hostile fighters. When, at this time the plane in which Lieutenant Commander Johnson was an observer developed mechanical trouble and was forced to turn back alone, presenting a favorable target to the enemy fighters, he evidenced coolness in spite of the hazard involved. His gallant action enabled him to obtain and return with valuable information."1
LBJ biographer Robert Caro’s newest volume, Means of Ascent, takes umbrage at Johnson’s receiving the nation’s third-highest combat medal for what amounted to taking an airplane ride and spending :a few minutes under fire." But it never happened. The fact is LBJ never got within sight of Japanese forces. His mission, like so much of his life, was a lie.
The exact origins of the contrived decoration remain unknown. Major General R. K. Sutherland, MacArthur’s chief of staff, made the award in MacArthur's name on June 18, 1942, just nine days after the alleged episode. The following day Brigadier General W. F. Marquat wrote Johnson, filling LBJ’s request for a signed copy of the citation. In his cover letter, Marquat stated, "Of course, your outstanding bravery in volunteering for a so-called 'suicide mission' in order to get a first-hand view of what our Army fliers go through has been the subject of much favorable comment since your departure. It is indeed a great government we have when members of the congress take THOSE chances in order to better serve their fellow men in the legislative bodies. You surely earned your decoration and I am so happy about your having received the award." (Emphasis added.)2
The mission of June 9th was code-named "Tow Nine." It involved eleven Martin B-26A Marauders – fast, twin-engine bombers - of the 22nd Bombardment Group from Port Moresby, New Guinea. Their target was Lae airdrome, an important Japanese installation on New Guinea’s northern coast. Diversionary attacks by B-25 Mitchell and B-17 Flying Fortress bombers were to cover the 22nd's approach.
Johnson's party arrived by B-17 from Townsville, Queensland, Australia early that morning. But not early enough to prevent a delay in the mission departure. Recalls Noel A. Wright, flying in B-26 No. 40-1496, "Our scheduled departure was delayed, due to the later arrival of expected VIP passengers we were to carry . . . about an hour. I remember the general (Marguat) climbing board my airplane (Lt. R. R. Hatch’s crew) . . . the VIPs late arrival at Port Moresby messed up a potentially good raid, cost lives and aircraft . . ."3
LBJ was first assigned to a B-26 named Wabash Cannonball, but apparently he left the bomber to relieve himself. When he returned he found his seat taken by Lieutenant Colonel Francis R. Stevens, accompanying Johnson on the tour of the forward area. Stevens playfully told Johnson to find another airplane, so LBJ climbed into 1st lieutenant W. H. Greer's 40-1488, named Heckling Hare.
Takeoff from Port Moresby was at 0851 with 1st Lt. W. A. Krell leading. The scheduled time over target was 1002, by which time only ten B-26s remained. One had aborted about a half-hour after takeoff and returned to base at 1008.4
That bomber was Heckling Hare. Generator trouble had forced Greer's crew to drop its bombs well short of the target and return to base. Heckling Hare had never gotten within sight of Lae.
When the mission did return, it was obvious there had been trouble. One Marauder crash-landed, four more had battle damage, and one never returned at all. The missing plane was Wabash Cannonball. Its entire eight-man crew was dead, shot down in the sea off Lae.
Lyndon Johnson returned to Townsville next day, conferred with MacArthur the 18th, and began the long trip home. He took with him his citation for the Silver Star.
The discrepancy is hard enough to understand on the face of the known facts. But equally surprising is the fact that General Marquat, who lauded Johnson in a personal letter (“You surely earned your decoration”) flew in another B-26 on Tow Nine! Was Marquat that obtuse, or that sycophantic? No other explanation seems possible.
Means of Ascent dissects Johnson's claims with surgical precision and plainly demonstrates LBJ’s cynical use of his Silver Star. Johnson even had the medal"“awarded" to him repeatedly while campaigning for re-election.5 But we are left with the question, what actually happened on the Lae raid of June 9th?
We need look no further than Lyndon Johnson's diary. His entry for that day is laconic: "After we were off the field with Prell (sic) and Greer leading, Greer’s generator went out; crew begged him to go on. For next 30 minutes we flew on one generator."6 No mention of combat, of enemy interceptors. LBJ’s "heroism" was fabricated from the start.

bobbys
10-05-2013, 10:55 AM
This is the guy that sent Americans to VN to "save face".

While my family was charging beachheads this joker was getting the silver star for a airplane ride.

But i wonder if he bragged to JFK about his silver star.

Lets face it JFK was a Northern Catholic and needed to win the southern vote.

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 10:58 AM
By Barrett Tillman and Henry Sakaida
Lieutenant Commander Lyndon B. Johnson, a Texas congressman temporarily serving in the U.S. Navy...

And?

I guess you think that this somehow makes his statement about the political exploitation of racism false?


"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."

You're the one who's always setting out the fallacies of others. How many rules of logical argument are you breaking with your response?

hanleyclifford
10-05-2013, 11:07 AM
Thanks for setting that record straight, bobbys - I always knew LBJ was full of it.

bobbys
10-05-2013, 11:14 AM
And?

I guess you think that this somehow makes his statement about the political exploitation of racism false?



You're the one who's always setting out the fallacies of others. How many rules of logical argument are you breaking with your response?.

This speaks to the character of this man, He would go to any lengths to advance himself or pander to voters.

But hey I remember going to Newark NJ to the draft board for VN {got a high number}and standing in line with a hundred Black guys.

See LBJ was emptying the ghettos to "save face".

the Democrats had the system down.

If you could afford College you got a "waiver"..

Working Class , minority..... Pack up your kit bag.

No LBJ was no great President...

Canoeyawl
10-05-2013, 11:17 AM
That darned civil rights act, all of our current problems started right then.

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 11:19 AM
This is the guy that sent Americans to VN to "save face".

While my family was charging beachheads this joker was getting the silver star for a airplane ride.

But i wonder if he bragged to JFK about his silver star.

Lets face it JFK was a Northern Catholic and needed to win the southern vote.

And LBJ sacrificed that vote to the Republicans to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed.


America was a segregated country when LBJ came to power. It wasn't when he left. From his very first hours in office, he would move to combat it on a broad front. But he also knew not an inch would be won cheaply. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is to many of us a watershed in American history. It was one of the most exhilarating triumphs of the Johnson years. Yet, late on the night of signing the bill, I found the President in a melancholy mood. I asked what was troubling him. "I think we just delivered the South to the Republican Party for a long time to come," he said. Even as his own popularity soared in that heady year, the President saw the gathering storm of a backlash.

LBJ was known as a physical coward from his earliest days as a Texas rancher's kid. He would collapse in the dirt, wailing, if confronted by any bully. Even though he was a very big man at 6'4", he could be cowed by practically anyone.

He was a master of the political system of give and take that we would call 'bribery' today.

There are any number of things that can be said to impugn the character of LBJ, but none of them can begin to tarnish the essential truth of his statement about the political uses of racism.

Thus, we see one of the bilge's principle whiners about 'ad hom, ad hom!' trying to use LBJs shortcomings as proof that something he said is false.

For shame, bobbys.


"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."

hanleyclifford
10-05-2013, 11:22 AM
.

This speaks to the character of this man, He would go to any lengths to advance himself or pander to voters.

But hey I remember going to Newark NJ to the draft board for VN {got a high number}and standing in line with a hundred Black guys.

See LBJ was emptying the ghettos to "save face".

the Democrats had the system down.

If you could afford College you got a "waiver"..

Working Class , minority..... Pack up your kit bag.

No LBJ was no great President... But Hillary has combat experience - how come no silver star for her?:)

Phillip Allen
10-05-2013, 11:24 AM
Yippie for our side! (it never changes)

ccmanuals
10-05-2013, 11:26 AM
The modern term for what Bobby's is doing here is called swiftboating. A tactic that was developed and nurtured by the right.

hanleyclifford
10-05-2013, 11:29 AM
And LBJ sacrificed that vote to the Republicans to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed.



LBJ was known as a physical coward from his earliest days as a Texas rancher's kid. He would collapse in the dirt, wailing, if confronted by any bully. Even though he was a very big man at 6'4", he could be cowed by practically anyone.

He was a master of the political system of give and take that we would call 'bribery' today.

There are any number of things that can be said to impugn the character of LBJ, but none of them can begin to tarnish the essential truth of his statement about the political uses of racism.

Thus, we see one of the bilge's principle whiners about 'ad hom, ad hom!' trying to use LBJs shortcomings as proof that something he said is false.

For shame, bobbys. For shame indeed; nothing from a liar and a coward should be taken seriously.

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 11:52 AM
For shame indeed; nothing from a liar and a coward should be taken seriously.

Ouch!

Don't you talk about bobbys that way!

He's my friend!

wardd
10-05-2013, 12:03 PM
By Barrett Tillman and Henry Sakaida
Lieutenant Commander Lyndon B. Johnson, a Texas congressman temporarily serving in the U.S. Navy, received his nation’s third-highest combat decoration while on a 1942 fact-finding mission. The future president was so proud of his award that he wore the silver lapel pin for the rest of his life.
The Silver Star citation, issued by General Douglas MacArthur’s chief of staff, says in part: "While on a mission of obtaining information in the Southwest Pacific Area, Lieutenant Commander Johnson, in order to obtain personal knowledge of combat conditions, volunteered as an observer on a hazardous aerial combat mission over hostile positions in New Guinea. As our planes neared the target area, they were intercepted by eight hostile fighters. When, at this time the plane in which Lieutenant Commander Johnson was an observer developed mechanical trouble and was forced to turn back alone, presenting a favorable target to the enemy fighters, he evidenced coolness in spite of the hazard involved. His gallant action enabled him to obtain and return with valuable information."1
LBJ biographer Robert Caro’s newest volume, Means of Ascent, takes umbrage at Johnson’s receiving the nation’s third-highest combat medal for what amounted to taking an airplane ride and spending :a few minutes under fire." But it never happened. The fact is LBJ never got within sight of Japanese forces. His mission, like so much of his life, was a lie.
The exact origins of the contrived decoration remain unknown. Major General R. K. Sutherland, MacArthur’s chief of staff, made the award in MacArthur's name on June 18, 1942, just nine days after the alleged episode. The following day Brigadier General W. F. Marquat wrote Johnson, filling LBJ’s request for a signed copy of the citation. In his cover letter, Marquat stated, "Of course, your outstanding bravery in volunteering for a so-called 'suicide mission' in order to get a first-hand view of what our Army fliers go through has been the subject of much favorable comment since your departure. It is indeed a great government we have when members of the congress take THOSE chances in order to better serve their fellow men in the legislative bodies. You surely earned your decoration and I am so happy about your having received the award." (Emphasis added.)2
The mission of June 9th was code-named "Tow Nine." It involved eleven Martin B-26A Marauders – fast, twin-engine bombers - of the 22nd Bombardment Group from Port Moresby, New Guinea. Their target was Lae airdrome, an important Japanese installation on New Guinea’s northern coast. Diversionary attacks by B-25 Mitchell and B-17 Flying Fortress bombers were to cover the 22nd's approach.
Johnson's party arrived by B-17 from Townsville, Queensland, Australia early that morning. But not early enough to prevent a delay in the mission departure. Recalls Noel A. Wright, flying in B-26 No. 40-1496, "Our scheduled departure was delayed, due to the later arrival of expected VIP passengers we were to carry . . . about an hour. I remember the general (Marguat) climbing board my airplane (Lt. R. R. Hatch’s crew) . . . the VIPs late arrival at Port Moresby messed up a potentially good raid, cost lives and aircraft . . ."3
LBJ was first assigned to a B-26 named Wabash Cannonball, but apparently he left the bomber to relieve himself. When he returned he found his seat taken by Lieutenant Colonel Francis R. Stevens, accompanying Johnson on the tour of the forward area. Stevens playfully told Johnson to find another airplane, so LBJ climbed into 1st lieutenant W. H. Greer's 40-1488, named Heckling Hare.
Takeoff from Port Moresby was at 0851 with 1st Lt. W. A. Krell leading. The scheduled time over target was 1002, by which time only ten B-26s remained. One had aborted about a half-hour after takeoff and returned to base at 1008.4
That bomber was Heckling Hare. Generator trouble had forced Greer's crew to drop its bombs well short of the target and return to base. Heckling Hare had never gotten within sight of Lae.
When the mission did return, it was obvious there had been trouble. One Marauder crash-landed, four more had battle damage, and one never returned at all. The missing plane was Wabash Cannonball. Its entire eight-man crew was dead, shot down in the sea off Lae.
Lyndon Johnson returned to Townsville next day, conferred with MacArthur the 18th, and began the long trip home. He took with him his citation for the Silver Star.
The discrepancy is hard enough to understand on the face of the known facts. But equally surprising is the fact that General Marquat, who lauded Johnson in a personal letter (“You surely earned your decoration”) flew in another B-26 on Tow Nine! Was Marquat that obtuse, or that sycophantic? No other explanation seems possible.
Means of Ascent dissects Johnson's claims with surgical precision and plainly demonstrates LBJ’s cynical use of his Silver Star. Johnson even had the medal"“awarded" to him repeatedly while campaigning for re-election.5 But we are left with the question, what actually happened on the Lae raid of June 9th?
We need look no further than Lyndon Johnson's diary. His entry for that day is laconic: "After we were off the field with Prell (sic) and Greer leading, Greer’s generator went out; crew begged him to go on. For next 30 minutes we flew on one generator."6 No mention of combat, of enemy interceptors. LBJ’s "heroism" was fabricated from the start.

right up there with tail gunner joe

ccmanuals
10-05-2013, 12:05 PM
now that's funny

bobbys
10-05-2013, 01:30 PM
The modern term for what Bobby's is doing here is called swiftboating. A tactic that was developed and nurtured by the right..

Its common knowledge thats the truth about the Silver star incident.

Of course you can refute it.

Thing is this is what libs do here every day.

Dig up a quote about a Conservative or even about something their staff did..

If you wanna hang your Hat on LBJ go right ahead.

bobbys
10-05-2013, 01:33 PM
Ouch!

Don't you talk about bobbys that way!

He's my friend!.

I told my fair share of fibs and ran away from a few woman in my time but i believe he was talking to you...

johnw
10-05-2013, 01:43 PM
seems to apply here. all the bilge left looks down on republicans

Nope. I don't know anyone who looks down on Cris Ross, for example. It matters how you act.

leikec
10-05-2013, 03:05 PM
Nope. I don't know anyone who looks down on Cris Ross, for example. It matters how you act.

Exactly.

Jeff C

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 03:19 PM
now that's funny

Thank you.

I'll be here all week, unless Dutch decides to ban me.


.

Its common knowledge thats the truth about the Silver star incident.

Of course you can refute it.

Thing is this is what libs do here every day.

Dig up a quote about a Conservative or even about something their staff did..

If you wanna hang your Hat on LBJ go right ahead.


Sonny, you am one messed up sorta dude. Don' get me wrong, now, I still love you and everything, but that there is a whole lotta rawng.

Perhaps it would be possible to deny it, but to refute it would require that it be a logical argument, not common knowledge. You really don't know from futtocks about 'logic', do you?

You can admit it, dude. We'll still love you.

Furthermore, I am not 'hanging my hat' on LBJ. I simply think that his remark about the political exploitation of racism is spot, flippin' on.

I'm sure that Pol Pot uttered some incontrovertible truths, from time to time, as has Bill O'Reilly.

Sarah Palin... I'm not so sure.


.

I told my fair share of fibs and ran away from a few woman in my time but i believe he was talking to you...

Really? It sounded like he was talking about you, man! Then, when he started posting those glam shots of himself, I thought he was trying to impress you with those big cheeks of his. Funny looking mouth though...and what's up with that nose?


Nope. I don't know anyone who looks down on Cris Ross, for example. It matters how you act.

This right here is the crux of the matter, bobbys.

Cris got my vote for BROTM because he actually THINKS.

I may not agree with his thoughts/opinions, but I know he actually considered the evidence and formed an opinion. An opinion based on reality, not on whatever ideology would serve his own interest.

skuthorp
10-05-2013, 03:40 PM
Interesting thread in that there are many truths from both sides, and comparatively little personal rancour. And JS and peffy are not so far apart on this as they might think. Political lies feature prominently in the causes of conflict, WW1 as an example, I think Goebbels had something to say on the matter of persuading a reluctant population of the necessity for war, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident etc.

As for the 'disrespect' of Republicans, if ever a party has earned that the GOP has since Cheney took charge at least. The damage done to the US is still in process and the country may never quite be the same internationally.

LeeG
10-05-2013, 04:14 PM
.

This speaks to the character of this man, He would go to any lengths to advance himself or pander to voters.

But hey I remember going to Newark NJ to the draft board for VN {got a high number}and standing in line with a hundred Black guys.

See LBJ was emptying the ghettos to "save face".

the Democrats had the system down.

If you could afford College you got a "waiver"..

Working Class , minority..... Pack up your kit bag.

No LBJ was no great President...

If you want your blood pressure to go up see the documentary about Robert MacNamara. It'll drive you crazy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

The documentary explores recent events in American history and also focuses on McNamara's life and how he rose from a humble American family to be a politician who achieved enormous power and influence. McNamara worked with presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson and with general Curtis LeMay, and had direct access to many governmental documents. His opinions, personal experiences and lessons learned while serving as a Secretary of Defense can provide the audience with an enlightening philosophy and outlook on American politics. The documentary covers important events such as World War II, Vietnam War, Cuban Missile Crisis, and many others that McNamara himself witnessed. McNamara is believed to be the "architect" of the Vietnam war; a war that cost an enormous number of lives against a foe whose resolve he seriously underestimated. McNamara's interview, along with archival footage, offers a close look at international security and the international relations of the US, and an insight into why certain conflicts occur and the lessons that can be learned from these conflicts.

LeeG
10-05-2013, 04:33 PM
As for the 'disrespect' of Republicans, if ever a party has earned that the GOP has since Cheney took charge at least. The damage done to the US is still in process and the country may never quite be the same internationally.

What Cheney and Rumsfeld did with Iraq pretty much pissed on the sacrifice and lessons of Vietnam.

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 04:40 PM
What Cheney and Rumsfeld did with Iraq pretty much pissed on the sacrifice and lessons of Vietnam.

Yet an astounding number of Vietnam veterans clamor for the opportunity to vote for their kind.

Wow.

pkrone
10-05-2013, 04:50 PM
I thought the thread concerned the question, "Was Lyndon Johnson right to knock off JFK?"

Bobby of Tulsa
10-05-2013, 05:07 PM
Yet an astounding number of Vietnam veterans clamor for the opportunity to vote for their kind.

Wow. Not me.

bobbys
10-05-2013, 05:17 PM
Thank you.

I'll be here all week, unless Dutch decides to ban me.




Sonny, you am one messed up sorta dude. Don' get me wrong, now, I still love you and everything, but that there is a whole lotta rawng.

Perhaps it would be possible to deny it, but to refute it would require that it be a logical argument, not common knowledge. You really don't know from futtocks about 'logic', do you?

You can admit it, dude. We'll still love you.

Furthermore, I am not 'hanging my hat' on LBJ. I simply think that his remark about the political exploitation of racism is spot, flippin' on.

I'm sure that Pol Pot uttered some incontrovertible truths, from time to time, as has Bill O'Reilly.

Sarah Palin... I'm not so sure.



Really? It sounded like he was talking about you, man! Then, when he started posting those glam shots of himself, I thought he was trying to impress you with those big cheeks of his. Funny looking mouth though...and what's up with that nose?



This right here is the crux of the matter, bobbys.

Cris got my vote for BROTM because he actually THINKS.

I may not agree with his thoughts/opinions, but I know he actually considered the evidence and formed an opinion. An opinion based on reality, not on whatever ideology would serve his own interest..

So when do you get to the part i was wrong about the Silver star....

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 07:23 PM
Not me.

Of course not, Bobby! You're sane!


.

So when do you get to the part i was wrong about the Silver star....

I don't give a rip about the Silver Star. Not in the context of this conversation about exploitation of racism for political gain, I don't, Mr. Red Herring Dude.

wardd
10-05-2013, 07:43 PM
If you want your blood pressure to go up see the documentary about Robert MacNamara. It'll drive you crazy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

The documentary explores recent events in American history and also focuses on McNamara's life and how he rose from a humble American family to be a politician who achieved enormous power and influence. McNamara worked with presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson and with general Curtis LeMay, and had direct access to many governmental documents. His opinions, personal experiences and lessons learned while serving as a Secretary of Defense can provide the audience with an enlightening philosophy and outlook on American politics. The documentary covers important events such as World War II, Vietnam War, Cuban Missile Crisis, and many others that McNamara himself witnessed. McNamara is believed to be the "architect" of the Vietnam war; a war that cost an enormous number of lives against a foe whose resolve he seriously underestimated. McNamara's interview, along with archival footage, offers a close look at international security and the international relations of the US, and an insight into why certain conflicts occur and the lessons that can be learned from these conflicts.


f-111

Waddie
10-05-2013, 08:23 PM
LBJ could care less about racism, or poor whites. This modern Caligula wanted political power for it's own sake. And he was unscrupulous enough to do anything, say anything, to get it. He opposed civil rights legislation while he was Senate leader under Eisenhower and favored it when it meant gaining black votes - at the expense of losing those poor white voters. The quote mentioned in this thread is typical of Johnson - always trying to frame the argument in favor of what he supported at that moment in time. Any number of sociologists have written about the perceived threat to lower educated unskilled/semi skilled white labor by cheap black labor in the 40's - 60's and cheap illegal Mexican labor today. The extent to which a threat ever existed - or exists today - can be debated, but there is no doubt that lower class white workers have felt threatened by cheaper labor - whatever it's source. Often their fears are expressed in racist terms, more likely now in anti-immigrant resentment. People who have very little in the first place are always the first to feel threatened by a cheaper labor competition, and they often hold tighter to their traditional family values, as that's sometimes all they have. Johnson should have discussed the issue more honestly, but a blatant charge of racism against a group he had already written off as a voting constituency is typical. However, most of the racism I ever encounter in the world isn't usually offered up by poor people. But let's see how Johnson dealt with civil rights issues;

The goal of the 1957 Civil Rights Act was to ensure that all Americans could exercise their right to vote. By 1957, only about 20% of African Americans were registered to vote. Despite comprising the majority population in numerous counties and Congressional districts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_congressional_districts) in the South, discriminatory voter registration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration) rules and laws had effectively disfranchised (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disfranchisement_after_Reconstruction_era) most blacks in those states since the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Civil rights organizations had collected evidence of discriminatory practices, such as administration of literacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test) and comprehension tests, poll taxes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax) and other means. While the states had the right to establish rules for voter registration and elections, the federal government found an oversight role in ensuring that citizens could exercise the constitutional right to vote for federal officers, such as the president, vice president (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States), and Congress.

The Democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29) Senate Majority Leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Majority_Leader), Lyndon Baines Johnson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Baines_Johnson) from Texas, realized that the bill and its journey through Congress could tear apart his party, whose southern bloc was anti-civil rights and northern members were more pro-civil rights. Southern senators occupied chairs of numerous important committees due to their long seniority. Johnson sent the bill to the judiciary committee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Committee_on_the_Judiciary), led by Senator James Eastland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Eastland) from Mississippi, who proceeded to change and alter the bill almost beyond recognition. Senator Richard Russell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Russell,_Jr.) from Georgia had claimed the bill was an example of the federal government wanting to impose its laws on states. Johnson sought recognition from civil rights advocates for passing the bill, while also receiving recognition from the mostly southern anti-civil rights Democrats for reducing it so much as to kill it.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957#cite_note-5)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957

regards,
Waddie

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 08:33 PM
LBJ could care less about racism, or poor whites. This modern Caligula wanted political power for it's own sake. And he was unscrupulous enough to do anything, say anything, to get it. He opposed civil rights legislation while he was Senate leader under Eisenhower and favored it when it meant gaining black votes - at the expense of losing those poor white voters. The quote mentioned in this thread is typical of Johnson - always trying to frame the argument in favor of what he supported at that moment in time. Any number of sociologists have written about the perceived threat to lower educated unskilled/semi skilled white labor by cheap black labor in the 40's - 60's and cheap illegal Mexican labor today. The extent to which a threat ever existed - or exists today - can be debated, but there is no doubt that lower class white workers have felt threatened by cheaper labor - whatever it's source. Often their fears are expressed in racist terms, more likely now in anti-immigrant resentment. People who have very little in the first place are always the first to feel threatened by a cheaper labor competition, and they often hold tighter to their traditional family values, as that's sometimes all they have. Johnson should have discussed the issue more honestly, but a blatant charge of racism against a group he had already given up on as a voting constituency is typical. However, most of the racism I ever encounter in the world isn't usually offered up by poor people. But let's see how Johnson dealt with civil rights issues;


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957

regards,
Waddie

So what?

Even if all that were 100% true, it would not begin to tarnish the inescapable truth of his statement:


"If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."





It is clear that you don't like this statement, but that makes it no less true.

Waddie
10-05-2013, 08:58 PM
oznabrag; So what?

Even if all that were 100% true, it would not begin to tarnish the inescapable truth of his statement:

You can't possibly be that obtuse.

regards,
Waddie

johnw
10-05-2013, 09:05 PM
LBJ could care less about racism, or poor whites. This modern Caligula wanted political power for it's own sake. And he was unscrupulous enough to do anything, say anything, to get it. He opposed civil rights legislation while he was Senate leader under Eisenhower and favored it when it meant gaining black votes - at the expense of losing those poor white voters. The quote mentioned in this thread is typical of Johnson - always trying to frame the argument in favor of what he supported at that moment in time. Any number of sociologists have written about the perceived threat to lower educated unskilled/semi skilled white labor by cheap black labor in the 40's - 60's and cheap illegal Mexican labor today. The extent to which a threat ever existed - or exists today - can be debated, but there is no doubt that lower class white workers have felt threatened by cheaper labor - whatever it's source. Often their fears are expressed in racist terms, more likely now in anti-immigrant resentment. People who have very little in the first place are always the first to feel threatened by a cheaper labor competition, and they often hold tighter to their traditional family values, as that's sometimes all they have. Johnson should have discussed the issue more honestly, but a blatant charge of racism against a group he had already written off as a voting constituency is typical. However, most of the racism I ever encounter in the world isn't usually offered up by poor people. But let's see how Johnson dealt with civil rights issues;


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1957

regards,
Waddie

And yet, he pushed through the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which was the real deal, and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which also was. He realized that in doing so, he would lose the South for the Democratic Party. Doesn't fit very well with your claim.

oznabrag
10-05-2013, 09:25 PM
You can't possibly be that obtuse.

regards,
Waddie

Oh, but I have just begun!

It's clear you are not prepared to engage in any sort of intellectual inquiry into the merits of the statement, so you may decline to do so without any sort of ill feeling on my part.

wardd
10-05-2013, 09:27 PM
so i take it johnson wasn't one dimensional

Waddie
10-05-2013, 09:28 PM
And yet, he pushed through the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which was the real deal, and the 1965 Voting Rights Act, which also was. He realized that in doing so, he would lose the South for the Democratic Party. Doesn't fit very well with your claim.

Of course it does. He simply traded a declining voting block for a growing voting block. He could read tea leaves well enough to predict that change. And while it was safe to bet he would lose many voters to apathy toward the Democratic party, he probably never imagined they would ever actually vote solidly Republican - the party of that hated man Lincoln. The Reagan revolution must have been quite a surprise.

regards,
Waddie

Waddie
10-05-2013, 10:08 PM
Waddie; You can't possibly be that obtuse.


oznabrag; Oh, but I have just begun!

Oh, I'm sure of that..... carry on, then.

regards,
Waddie

Cuyahoga Chuck
10-05-2013, 10:13 PM
Pretty pessimistic view of mankind, and one to which I do not subscribe. LBJ was better know and a political bas***d than a great philosopher.

LBJ was a MASTER of TEXAS politics. He only lost once, if I'm not mistaken. If he needed additional votes to take the lead they magically appeared. If he had to play the racist to connect with the voter he would. He just assumed the cost was worth the result. He couldn't help those on the bottom if he didn't get elected.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 02:42 PM
right up there with tail gunner joe.

Speaking of Joe, bobby Kennedy worked for AND admired JM.

LBJ disliked bobby Kennedy.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 02:56 PM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png.

Oz sez i need to reply to the OP.

So your Question is was LBJ right?.

Well to reply i need you to explain Who are the lowest and highest white men and who are the Highest and lowest colored men?

pefjr
10-06-2013, 03:22 PM
"Why poor and middleclass Repubs. vote against their own interests?" This is not a hard question to answer dems, however it is interesting that the left has their hero politician enter the picture to answer it in a way they can understand. You see Lefties, not everyone votes in their own personal selfish interests. A lot of us happily vote in the best interest of our country, that is something that you guys don't understand. You are of the gimme gimme party. Now, I didn't say this, your own lefty Osborne Russel said it, ....several times, I just agree with him, as it is obvious in your lack of mental awareness that you don't see this selfishness. You can't see it, it goes against your ideology. SO..... you have to dig up something a Texas politician said to explain it so you can understand. Very interesting character revelations.:d:d

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 04:32 PM
"Why poor and middleclass Repubs. vote against their own interests?" This is not a hard question to answer dems, however it is interesting that the left has their hero politician enter the picture to answer it in a way they can understand.

1)Hero?

2)Your authority on the subject of 'understanding' is well known.2352


You see Lefties, not everyone votes in their own personal selfish interests. A lot of us happily vote in the best interest of our country, that is something that you guys don't understand.

This is a blatant insult. It is also the left over 'welfare queen' garbage.

Do you people have any new ideas?

If your idea of voting in the best interest of the country involves voting Republican, you are one deluded little puppy.



You are of the gimme gimme party. Now, I didn't say this, your own lefty Osborne Russel said it, ....several times, I just agree with him, as it is obvious in your lack of mental awareness that you don't see this selfishness.

More broken-record welfare-queenism. Boring, boring, boring.

I think you'd better check in with Mr. Russell. I am not entirely sure he will appreciate having been called a lefty.


You can't see it, it goes against your ideology. SO..... you have to dig up something a Texas politician said to explain it so you can understand. Very interesting character revelations.:d:d

Riiiight.

So here we are, ignorant, benighted 'lefties' who are blinded by this or that, and we understand what LBJ was saying perfectly, yet you still can't seem to wrap your 'mind' around it.

It seems that, by your own description, we are a whole lot smarter than you are.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 04:45 PM
1)Hero?

2)Your authority on the subject of 'understanding' is well known.2352



This is a blatant insult. It is also the left over 'welfare queen' garbage.

Do you people have any new ideas?

If your idea of voting in the best interest of the country involves voting Republican, you are one deluded little puppy.




More broken-record welfare-queenism. Boring, boring, boring.

I think you'd better check in with Mr. Russell. I am not entirely sure he will appreciate having been called a lefty.



Riiiight.

So here we are, ignorant, benighted 'lefties' who are blinded by this or that, and we understand what LBJ was saying perfectly, yet you still can't seem to wrap your 'mind' around it.

It seems that, by your own description, we are a whole lot smarter than you are..

Maybe you can tell me who are the highest White/colored and who are the lowest white/Colored?.

Please be specific so i can figure out what LBJ meant and give a reply based on the information provided .

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 04:54 PM
.

Maybe you can tell me who are the highest White/colored and who are the lowest white/Colored?.

Please be specific so i can figure out what LBJ meant and give a reply based on the information provided .

The specific answer is that it does not matter.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 04:56 PM
The specific answer is that it does not matter..

No the specific point is none of you libs will dare to expand on what LBJ said about colored people.

Checkmate.

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 05:00 PM
.

No the specific point is none of you libs will dare to expand on what LBJ said about colored people.

Checkmate.

Wrong.

It does not matter what 'scale' you use for 'lowest' and 'highest'.

Just because you say it's checkmate doesn't mean anything.

You clearly are ignoring my bishops, rooks and queen, whereas all your pieces are in that little heap over here on the margin of my side of the board.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 05:08 PM
Wrong.

It does not matter what 'scale' you use for 'lowest' and 'highest'.

Just because you say it's checkmate doesn't mean anything.

You clearly are ignoring my bishops, rooks and queen, whereas all your pieces are in that little heap over here on the margin of my side of the board..

HHHMMM you asked me to reply to the OP and i have.

But What and who are the highest and lowest..

Its not a hard Question for a smart guy like you that defends LBJ..

See when I ask you evade and when i bring up the fact LBJ lied about the Silver Star you will not admit it..

You want it both ways..

Speaking of the Silver Star its one thing he stole it over the bodies of heroes its another thing he wore it on his lapel.

Stolen valor kinda guy for sure.

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 05:15 PM
.

HHHMMM you asked me to reply to the OP and i have.

But What and who are the highest and lowest..

Its not a hard Question for a smart guy like you that defends LBJ..

See when I ask you evade and when i bring up the fact LBJ lied about the Silver Star you will not admit it..

You want it both ways..

Speaking of the Silver Star its one thing he stole it over the bodies of heroes its another thing he wore it on his lapel.

Stolen valor kinda guy for sure.

For the last time: I don't give a rip about LBJ OR his medals. Get it? No? Too bad.

I will not address this red herring again.

If you want to go start a thread about LBJ's Silver Star or his cheating at cards or his inability to please his wife or his hemorrhoids, then have at it. If it turns out to be interesting, I'll post to it.

As to low and high, apparently it is far too much for you to grasp that the scale is immaterial. It does not matter.

What does matter is that whatever scale is used to appeal to a racist is a racist-based scale.

If you still don't get it, there's no hope for you.

wardd
10-06-2013, 05:23 PM
.

Maybe you can tell me who are the highest White/colored and who are the lowest white/Colored?.

Please be specific so i can figure out what LBJ meant and give a reply based on the information provided .

who is is unimportant what is important is who those white folks can be convinced is

bobbys
10-06-2013, 05:24 PM
For the last time: I don't give a rip about LBJ OR his medals. Get it? No? Too bad.

I will not address this red herring again.

If you want to go start a thread about LBJ's Silver Star or his cheating at cards or his inability to please his wife or his hemorrhoids, then have at it. If it turns out to be interesting, I'll post to it.

As to low and high, apparently it is far too much for you to grasp that the scale is immaterial. It does not matter.

What does matter is that whatever scale is used to appeal to a racist is a racist-based scale.

If you still don't get it, there's no hope for you..

You will not address the matter of Silver star because its the truth.

The OP put up a pic of White people in a Trailer park along with a LBJ saying.

So We can gather the meaning is trailer trash VS ?

However you and the OP will not give the other side but giggled like school girls at the trailer trash people you think your better then..

So With the information provided i see Trailer trash as "lowest" but no one is brave enough to give me the other 3 sides..

See Oz thats racist scale stuff right there.

Why will you not give up the scale?

pefjr
10-06-2013, 05:28 PM
This is a blatant insult. It is also the left over 'welfare queen' garbage.

I think you'd better check in with Mr. Russell. I am not entirely sure he will appreciate having been called a lefty.

It seems that, by your own description, we are a whole lot smarter than you are.Don't take offense, I don't expect you to agree or to even understand it. As I said, you can't understand it because it goes against your ideology. You are safe,....no not smarter, just safe from blame, this ain't no pp contest. BTW don't look now, but I think bobbys has picked your pocket so to speak.:D:D

wardd
10-06-2013, 05:28 PM
.

You will not address the matter of Silver star because its the truth.

The OP put up a pic of White people in a Trailer park along with a LBJ saying.

So We can gather the meaning is trailer trash VS ?

However you and the OP will not give the other side but giggled like school girls at the trailer trash people you think your better then..

So With the information provided i see Trailer trash as "lowest" but no one is brave enough to give me the other 3 sides..

See Oz thats racist scale stuff right there.

Why will you not give up the scale?

i don't give a rats patootie about the silver star , i do care for what he accomplished in office as far as social issues go

i'd feel the same about a rep if later they accomplished something for the country that was worthwhile

TomF
10-06-2013, 05:32 PM
Jesus Murphy!

The quote is about how to manipulate people, by understanding and playing to their bigotries. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine any number of rather trenchant observers of politics saying essentially the same thing ... from Machiaveilli to Churchill, even to Rumsfeld or Karl Rove. A bit of Googling would probably bring examples.

So the trouble here is that a Dem president from decades ago said it? Hell, I still quote Rumsfeld on the "known unknowns and unknown unknowns" thing, because even though I think he's an contemptible and execrable excuse for a human being ... the comment was admirably clear, succinct, memorable ... and accurate.

What's my trouble with Reps these days? This example personifies it. Far too many will deny actual, true and coherent statements of fact or Occam's Razor-like interpretations of sets of facts ... because folks on the other side said them. No other reason. And substitute/promote their own sets of make-believe facts ... like Palin's "Death Panels" or McCain's lies about Obama being a Socialist, or this week's "Obama's shut down Government."

Sure, some things are interpretation, and up for grabs. Other things just aren't - and which is which isn't really something up for grabs either.

There are many thoughtful conservatives out there - some are Republicans, though far too many are keeping silent in order to stay safe from the extremists running around with hatchets punishing anyone who appears to be a RINO. To be perfectly honest, in any terms except those of the past decade, it is the extremists who would be far better dubbed with the epithet RINO. Because even in Reagan's day (when the descent started IMO) Republicans used to be pragmatic, rather than driven solely by the ideology of the moment. The real RINOs aren't moderates .. they're the anarchists willing to promote the crash of the Global economy in order to advance their ideological goals ... even when those goals are grounded firmly in mid-air.

pefjr
10-06-2013, 05:46 PM
Jesus Murphy!
What's my trouble with Reps these days? This example personifies it. Far too many will deny actual, true and coherent statements of fact or Occam's Razor-like interpretations of sets of facts ... because folks on the other side said them. No other reason. And substitute/promote their own sets of make-believe facts ... like Palin's "Death Panels" or McCain's lies about Obama being a Socialist, or this week's "Obama's shut down Government."
Then you should have problems with the Presidents "Extortionists", Reid's "Cowards", and the charge of Treason, however I haven't seen your complaint. Did I miss it somewhere? Or,...maybe you should look in the mirror for that Rumsfield character's contemptible and execrable excuse for a human being.

wardd
10-06-2013, 05:54 PM
Then you should have problems with the Presidents "Extortionists", Reid's "Cowards", and the charge of Treason, however I haven't seen your complaint. Did I miss it somewhere? Or,...maybe you should look in the mirror for that Rumsfield character's contemptible and execrable excuse for a human being.

what are they extorting?

they offered to use the numbers the reps wanted

you peeps can't take yes for an answer

TomF
10-06-2013, 05:58 PM
Then you should have problems with the Presidents "Extortionists", Reid's "Cowards", and the charge of Treason, however I haven't seen your complaint. Did I miss it somewhere? Or,...maybe you should look in the mirror for that Rumsfield character's contemptible and execrable excuse for a human being.

Boehner's not acting like a coward? The Reps aren't doing something unprecedented - especially considering Boehner's "double down" comments on Tom M's thread? You guys aren't actually courting the first default on America's bills in your nation's history, in order to get something which you couldn't get through votes in Congress, a SCOTUS decision and 2 Presidential elections?

Peffy, take off the f#cking blinders. It's becoming more and more difficult to talk with you - which is a shame. I used to enjoy it.

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 06:04 PM
.

You will not address the matter of Silver star because its the truth.

The OP put up a pic of White people in a Trailer park along with a LBJ saying.

So We can gather the meaning is trailer trash VS ?

However you and the OP will not give the other side but giggled like school girls at the trailer trash people you think your better then..

So With the information provided i see Trailer trash as "lowest" but no one is brave enough to give me the other 3 sides..

See Oz thats racist scale stuff right there.

Why will you not give up the scale?

1) The thing about the silver star is completely irrelevant to the use of racism for political manipulation.

Write that on the blackboard a thousand times.

2) Who are you calling trailer trash?

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 06:05 PM
...

Peffy, take off the f#cking blinders. It's becoming more and more difficult to talk with you - which is a shame. I used to enjoy it.

He ain't worth the trouble, Tom.

He's gone.

isla
10-06-2013, 06:06 PM
if a bank robber drops his cash as he runs past, it is against the immediate best interest of anyone who might be standing close to turn it in to the bank... so much for the best interest argument.

Only if you consider cash to be more important than honesty, integrity and self-respect. Or you might value your 15 minutes of fame as honest Joe citizen, champion of truth, justice and the American way. Which way would a conservative jump?

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 06:11 PM
Sympathy, is also a form of looking down upon when it is not wanted.

As is well said by James Hunter: Don't Do Me No Favors


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3i60W3TD98

pefjr
10-06-2013, 06:23 PM
Boehner's not acting like a coward? The Reps aren't doing something unprecedented - especially considering Boehner's "double down" comments on Tom M's thread? You guys aren't actually courting the first default on America's bills in your nation's history, in order to get something which you couldn't get through votes in Congress, a SCOTUS decision and 2 Presidential elections?

Peffy, take off the f#cking blinders. It's becoming more and more difficult to talk with you - which is a shame. I used to enjoy it.Do you understand "broke". This just the tip of the ice b......no..... more like the tip of the ice cap. The waste of the US Gov't can't even be calculated for months after it's spent. Can you count to 17 Trillion? What Boehner is doing just a couple weeks early. Do yourself a favor and on Monday check and see who is buying US Treasuries. Let us know.

pefjr
10-06-2013, 06:26 PM
1) The thing about the silver star is completely irrelevant to the use of racism for political manipulation.

duh. It has been irrelevant for a long time, since the dems sold their soul to the devil and no longer value integrity, honesty, and character.
You don't even see the connection. ROFL.

Chip-skiff
10-06-2013, 06:29 PM
Johnson was a southerner and also a brilliant politician, not so much as a moral exemplar as in terms of getting things done. Having had the courage to buck his own background and base to advance civil rights, he understood the workings of race and class hatred in a way that few of us do, these days.

The transformation of the Republican Party (formerly the party of Lincoln), in reaction to the civil rights struggle, to a gaggle of superstitious, racist hysterics and fundamentalist know-nothings, financed by cynical plutocrats, is one of the astonishing shifts in the last half century.

It's also a shame.

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 06:30 PM
Boehner's not acting like a coward? The Reps aren't doing something unprecedented - especially considering Boehner's "double down" comments on Tom M's thread? You guys aren't actually courting the first default on America's bills in your nation's history, in order to get something which you couldn't get through votes in Congress, a SCOTUS decision and 2 Presidential elections?

Peffy, take off the f#cking blinders. It's becoming more and more difficult to talk with you - which is a shame. I used to enjoy it.


He ain't worth the trouble, Tom.

He's gone.


duh. It has been irrelevant for a long time, since the dems sold their soul to the devil and no longer value integrity, honesty, and character.
You don't even see the connection. ROFL.

There you go, Tom.

See what I mean?

TomF
10-06-2013, 06:32 PM
Do you understand "broke". This just the tip of the ice b......no..... more like the tip of the ice cap. The waste of the US Gov't can't even be calculated for months after it's spent. Can you count to 17 Trillion? What Boehner is doing just a couple weeks early. Do yourself a favor and on Monday check and see who is buying US Treasuries. Let us know.I do understand "broke." My provincial government's broke too - and I've just been shifted into a new role to root out some of the waste in my ministry's contributions to that. The project I'm starting on tomorrow, as it turns out, is looking to find up to a third of the current $7M budget through better processes, better inventory management, and reducing other waste. I've got 'till the end of January to try to find it - and there will be consequences ... though not for the end user of the service. They, after all, need to receive that specific health care service, eh?

Crashing the global economy, which is what Boehner's rolling up to whether this week or on Oct 17, is not the way to increase the revenue going into the plus side of that balance sheet. Nor is it an effective way of identifying and ripping out waste in processes. It is, however, an effective way of increasing China's relative power, and increasing the speed of America's slide away from being the dominant global power. This is NOT in America's best interest ... nor is it in mine, and the interest of folks like me throughout the Western democracies.

pefjr
10-06-2013, 06:37 PM
Crashing the global economy, which is what Boehner's rolling up to whether this week or on Oct 17, is not the way to increase the revenue going into the plus side of that balance sheet. Your ideology prevents you from acknowledging that Obama is doing the same thing. It's a game of 'chicken' where both of them and all of us lose. We lost long ago, and have been postponing the crash. What do you think they did in 2011? Postponed the game. I am not saying the game can't be PP again, however, I am saying that a pull back is long overdue and the dems are not capable of pulling back, they owe their voters and must feed them.

TomF
10-06-2013, 06:55 PM
Your ideology prevents you from acknowledging that Obama is doing the same thing. It's a game of 'chicken' where both of them and all of us lose. We lost long ago, and have been postponing the crash. What do you think they did in 2011? Postponed the game. I am not saying the game can't be PP again, however, I am saying that a pull back is long overdue and the dems are not capable of pulling back, they owe their voters and must feed them.Through improving access to health insurance among currently under-represented groups, the ACA will actually make a substantial long-term impact improving America's population health .. and through that, America's productivity. It is also a first step towards relieving employers of a disproportionate burden of health insurance support for their current and retired workers, which makes them uncompetitive vis a vis places like Japan, S. Korea etc. American domestic cars, for instance, could be A LOT cheaper, if you mob had tax-supported universal health care ... to which ACA is a step.

The Dems are, at the moment, the only adults in the room. I wish there were others there to make meaningful contributions, because by damn you (and hence we) need them to be there. But until they get back some sanity, we need to just suck it up.

wardd
10-06-2013, 06:59 PM
the right works off of the premise of the way things ought to be, whether it's a good fit for reality or not

if it doesn't work it's because the people lack faith

pefjr
10-06-2013, 07:10 PM
The Dems are, at the moment, the only adults in the room. I see a few, but hardly the only adults. The rest are parroting the Presidents Extortionist rant, and unable to even reason.

wardd
10-06-2013, 07:15 PM
I see a few, but hardly the only adults. The rest are parroting the Presidents Extortionist rant, and unable to even reason.

what is the president extorting?

bobbys
10-06-2013, 11:04 PM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png.

So you posted this thread and took your shot.

I see the Pic of Trailer people so I can assume they are the Lowest Whites.

So Who are the highest Whites, The highest Blacks and the lowest Blacks?.

Some lib took what LBJ said and put the trailer pic in.

Are you going to explain who the other 3 categories are or just ignore a tough Question.

You have time to go back to your source if they can help you out..

Maybe its not so easy to post a propaganda pic and actually have to back it up.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 11:06 PM
.

The "knowledge" Movement.

"Most importantly we believe you cannot have rational dialogue with irrational people. Engaging the Right would undermine any solutions, not advance them.

Mission
Our mission is to make America a better place, where education, opportunity, justice, health, happiness, and prosperity are more equally attainable for [everyone].

We believe this can be achieved by keeping the public informed, combating corporate and political misinformation, and conducting calls to action when necessary.
Description
Many people come to this page believing that "Knowledge" equates to neutrality or bipartisanship but both assumptions are grossly wrong.

As posted in our mission statement; our main goal is to "Make America a better place....for everyone". The only bias we have is toward a better America. Every piece of "Knowledge" we post, in some way, works to support that end. If we support a political party it' s because that party is the most conducive to working toward that end. If bipartisanship was facilitative to making America a better place we would whole heartedly support it. But on the contrary; we will show, through credible data, one party has for the last thirty years consistently made America a worse, more unequal place, and for that reason we will do everything we can to aid in rendering that party completely ineffective, and hopefully one day obsolete.

You have two fruits that both look good and healthy to the eye, but when you pull back the peel one, though not perfect, has proven beneficial and healthy to eat. The other is plainly rotten and has proven to have very little beneficial factors what-so-ever. Not only does it not offer any nutritional value but it has actually made you sick when you ate it. Would you, knowing this, pretend the rotten one is not rotten and sell them both as equally good fruits? Would it make you "biased" toward fresh fruit for revealing that the other fruit is rotten? Or would revealing this information make you simply an honest and decent person? By anyones standards the crime would be to [not] make this information known to those considering which fruit to buy.

The truth is; America once had two [fresh] political fruits to choose from, with both dedicated to the betterment of the American collective, differing only in how to attain this goal. But this has not been true for a long time. The Knowledge Movement, in our research, has found that for the last forty years one political party, though flawed, has effectively advanced the middle class. -- The Democratic Party. They've increased support for veterans, got equal pay for women, started the Consumer Protection Agency, increased minimum wage, took Banks off the Federal Student Aid Program, expanded childrens health insurance, implemented the Food Safety Bill, kicked lobbyists off federal advisory boards and got healthcare for millions of Americans without it.

The other party not only has not passed [any] legislation to help advance the middle class in the last forty years, but on the contrary, has passed much legislation to further decimate the middle class, while at the same time introducing and supporting legislation to increase the powers of corporations, and facilitated taking money away from the middle class and out of the economy and funneling it upwards into the coffers of those at the top, further strangling the economy and increasing the gulf between the rich and middle class. They have added trillions to the national debt for the sole purpose of keeping taxes low for the wealthy. This, to the detriment of the middle class, who will have to pay the debt incurred by the undying nepotism between the Republicans and the rich. They also have passed and are still attempting to pass legislation to take away middle class workers rights to assemble for decent pay, benefits, healthcare, and safe working conditions.

Perhaps the Republican anti-middle class positions could be justified if the numbers showed they actually befitted the country as a whole but the evidence shows the contrary. In a study going back to the Kennedy administration it was found that Democrats create [twice] as many jobs as Republican administrations (1). Another study targeting that same time frame shows that GDP is [twice] as high under Democratic administrations (2). Also during that same forty year period there's been only two presidents to balance their budgets, both of which were Democrats -- Bill Clinton and Lyndon Johnson (no Republican has balanced a budget in over 50 years [Eisenhower]). Also during this period the only two Democratic Presidents to serve (Clinton [3] and Obama [4]), lowered their deficits, while [ALL] Republicans during that time frame (Reagan, HW Bush, and GW Bush) [increased] their deficits. Also; over 2/3rds of the national debt (Obamas included) was put there by Republicans (5). And the overwhelming majority of the debt placed by Obama was added as a consequence of fixing Repubilcan catastrophes and failures. So even Obamas debt increases can be realistically attrbuted to them.

(1) http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-08/private-jobs-increase-more-with-democrats-in-white-house.html (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2F20 12-05-08%2Fprivate-jobs-increase-more-with-democrats-in-white-house.html&h=4AQEQ5U0-&s=1)

(2) http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing/2012/09/04/history-shows-markets-gdp-outperform-under-democrats/ (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxbusiness.com%2Finvesti ng%2F2012%2F09%2F04%2Fhistory-shows-markets-gdp-outperform-under-democrats%2F&h=PAQFa3N8-&s=1)

(3) http://clinton5.nara.gov/media/pdf/eightyears.pdf (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclinton5.nara.gov%2Fmedia%2Fp df%2Feightyears.pdf&h=DAQGGzJuu&s=1)

(4) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/repeat-after-me-obama-cut_b_1955561.html (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2Fbob-cesca%2Frepeat-after-me-obama-cut_b_1955561.html&h=1AQEyROx0&s=1)

(5) http://zfacts.com/p/1195.html (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fzfacts.com%2Fp%2F1195.html&h=iAQFMgChH&s=1)

The Republican Party is unequivocally the rotten fruit previously mentioned. Their middle class supporters can't name one thing the Republicans did to benefit them personally, the last time they were in power. And they can't name one thing they did to benefit the country as a whole either. Nor can they refute any of the information on this page and yet some, in the face of this undeniable evidence, will call The Knowledge Movement biased or partisan for taking a position based on the data displayed here, when in reality it's purely logical, and based on common sense. They would prefer we pretend none of the facts presented on this page are real, and that we craft a fallacious alternate reality akin to the one crafted by the rightwing. In essence; peddle both pieces of fruit as if they are both fresh while knowing full well one is rotten. To these people, who seek a concocted reality for the sake of some ideological fantasy, we can only say, look elsewhere for we post only facts here. We don't bend the truth to fit the romanticized, delusions that some have of a non-existent equivalence.

bobbys
10-06-2013, 11:07 PM
"Most importantly we believe you cannot have rational dialogue with irrational people. Engaging the Right would undermine any solutions, not advance them. LOL.

oznabrag
10-06-2013, 11:15 PM
"Most importantly we believe you cannot have rational dialogue with irrational people. Engaging the Right would undermine any solutions, not advance them. LOL.

They sure as heck got THAT right!

johnw
10-07-2013, 12:59 AM
Of course it does. He simply traded a declining voting block for a growing voting block. He could read tea leaves well enough to predict that change. And while it was safe to bet he would lose many voters to apathy toward the Democratic party, he probably never imagined they would ever actually vote solidly Republican - the party of that hated man Lincoln. The Reagan revolution must have been quite a surprise.

regards,
Waddie

This has to be one of the least perceptive posts you've ever written. LBJ knew he was losing the South. Was Reagan a surprise? Not so much. Remember his first speech after he got the nomination?

Remember what Bob Herbert said?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan%27s_Neshoba_County_Fair_%22states%27_rights %22_speech
"Reagan was the first presidential candidate ever to appear at the fair, and he knew exactly what he was doing when he told that crowd, “I believe in states’ rights.” Reagan apologists have every right to be ashamed of that appearance by their hero, but they have no right to change the meaning of it, which was unmistakable. Commentators have been trying of late to put this appearance by Reagan into a racially benign context.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan%27s_Neshoba_County_Fair_%22states%27_rights %22_speech#cite_note-8)

Waddie
10-07-2013, 01:09 AM
This has to be one of the least perceptive posts you've ever written. LBJ knew he was losing the South. Was Reagan a surprise? Not so much. Remember his first speech after he got the nomination?
Remember what Bob Herbert said?

Thanks, you made my point that Johnson made a conscious decision to abandon the poor white vote in the South, which was in decline, and peg his future on capturing the growing black vote. So making racist remarks about a group he was no longer counting on was in line with his character. I haven't seen anything you've posted that changes my opinion and I still doubt that Johnson expected the Republicans to solidify that southern vote so successfully.

regards,
Waddie

oznabrag
10-07-2013, 08:27 AM
Thanks, you made my point that Johnson made a conscious decision to abandon the poor white vote in the South, which was in decline, and peg his future on capturing the growing black vote. So making racist remarks about a group he was no longer counting on was in line with his character. I haven't seen anything you've posted that changes my opinion and I still doubt that Johnson expected the Republicans to solidify that southern vote so successfully.

regards,
Waddie

Issues of his character aside, what makes you think he wasn't commenting on the demagogues who exploit racism for political gain?

Michael D. Storey
10-07-2013, 08:33 AM
I realize that it would be a huge commitment, but I nonetheless suggest that if you want to find out what Johnson was alll about, Robert Caro has written three brilliant volumes about the man. Huge volumes, I might add.

Durnik
10-07-2013, 08:54 AM
Ok, too many people are focusing on the man in an effort to ignore the subject (Look! Pilgrims! ;-)). Let's rephrase the query -

Is this statement correct -


If you can convince the lowest white man that he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."

The plain & simple answer is "Yes".

More elaborately, Hell Yes!

Barack O'Bama still isn't the problem.

Tpublicans still are the problem.




"Most importantly we believe you cannot have rational dialogue with irrational people. Engaging the Right would undermine any solutions, not advance them."


They sure as heck got THAT right!

'Elaborately', Hell Yes! ;-)

enjoy
bobby

pefjr
10-07-2013, 09:32 AM
I realize that it would be a huge commitment, but I nonetheless suggest that if you want to find out what Johnson was alll about, Robert Caro has written three brilliant volumes about the man. Huge volumes, I might add.They know that Johnson was a racist, based on what many of the left judge to be a racist, Johnson fits perfectly. However he did produce changes in the country, mainly in the south that contradict his racism. What is hilarious is the dribble of lefties that enter this thread with their opinion on his statement that CC first posted. Not a one can answer mine and Bobby's question of what they think Johnson meant with his classifying the scale of high and low. That classification alone sets Johnson off as a bigot. We already know he was a racist and a bigot, and a stupid military strategist, but the hilarity is no lefty has answered the question, which only requires a simple confirmation of what we already know. Watching them squirm, twist, spin, make excuses is the entertainment of the thread, so please don't send them off to the library.:d

oznabrag
10-07-2013, 09:47 AM
They know that Johnson was a racist,...

So what?

For all I know, Johnson was a Kenyan, Muslim, Communist baby-raper .

Your problem is that you can not accept that even Kenyan, Muslim, Communist baby-rapers can, and do, tell the truth, from time to time.

You are up to your elbows in the 'ad-hominey' bowl, and you don't even know it.

Reading comprehension, my eye!

Here, read this:


"If you can convince the lowest Kenyan, Muslim, Communist baby-raper that he's better than the best Martian, Muslim, Communist baby-raper, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."

It's STILL TRUE.

pefjr
10-07-2013, 09:51 AM
So what?

For all I know, Johnson was a Kenyan, Muslim, Communist baby-raper .

Your problem is that you can not accept that even Kenyan, Muslim, Communist baby-rapers can, and do, tell the truth, from time to time.

You are up to your elbows in the 'ad-hominey' bowl, and you don't even know it.

Reading comprehension, my eye!

Here, read this:


"If you can convince the lowest Kenyan, Muslim, Communist baby-raper that he's better than the best Martian, Muslim, Communist baby-raper, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll even empty his pockets for you."

It's STILL TRUE.
Watching them squirm, twist, spin, make excuses is the entertainment of the thread, so please don't send them off to the library.:dSee what I mean Vern?

wardd
10-07-2013, 09:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KIyewCdXMzk

oznabrag
10-07-2013, 09:54 AM
See what I mean Vern?

Sooo, you know you're wrong, yet you continue to spew.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Ugh.

jclays
10-07-2013, 10:00 AM
as well they should.
yawnnnnnn.....

Michael D. Storey
10-07-2013, 10:33 AM
They know that Johnson was a racist, based on what many of the left judge to be a racist, Johnson fits perfectly. However he did produce changes in the country, mainly in the south that contradict his racism. What is hilarious is the dribble of lefties that enter this thread with their opinion on his statement that CC first posted. Not a one can answer mine and Bobby's question of what they think Johnson meant with his classifying the scale of high and low. That classification alone sets Johnson off as a bigot. We already know he was a racist and a bigot, and a stupid military strategist, but the hilarity is no lefty has answered the question, which only requires a simple confirmation of what we already know. Watching them squirm, twist, spin, make excuses is the entertainment of the thread, so please don't send them off to the library.:d

So, instead of find out what really happened, you feel that everyone should just take your opinion? It so happens that his statement, as unpleasant as it was, was factual. The man knew how to read people, is what the statement says, and it is accurate. It may not be pleasant, but it shows that he knew what he was doing.
And whether the 'lefties' are dribbling or handing out drivel is something that you should work out.

oznabrag
10-07-2013, 11:17 AM
So, instead of find out what really happened, you feel that everyone should just take your opinion? It so happens that his statement, as unpleasant as it was, was factual. The man knew how to read people, is what the statement says, and it is accurate. It may not be pleasant, but it shows that he knew what he was doing.
And whether the 'lefties' are dribbling or handing out drivel is something that you should work out.

Thank you.

pefjr
10-07-2013, 11:21 AM
So, instead of find out what really happened, you feel that everyone should just take your opinion? It so happens that his statement, as unpleasant as it was, was factual. The man knew how to read people, is what the statement says, and it is accurate. It may not be pleasant, but it shows that he knew what he was doing.
And whether the 'lefties' are dribbling or handing out drivel is something that you should work out.The statement says Johnson was a bigot. He was also a dem, and that prevents any lefty from admitting such and moving on. Twist and spin all you want, it just shows your bias is so strong that you can't reason.

oznabrag
10-07-2013, 11:26 AM
The statement says Johnson was a bigot. He was also a dem, and that prevents any lefty from admitting such and moving on. Twist and spin all you want, it just shows your bias is so strong that you can't reason.

Well folks, what are we to expect of such a person?

Ugly.

TomF
10-07-2013, 11:36 AM
The statement says Johnson was a bigot. He was also a dem, and that prevents any lefty from admitting such and moving on. Twist and spin all you want, it just shows your bias is so strong that you can't reason.Peffy, put down that damned wide brush.

Yes, Johnson was a bigot. Guess what - we've talked before about how there's racism across True Blue places like Boston too. My God!

Yes, Johnson was also right. Didn't you see my earlier post in this thread, comparing the quote with the kind of thing people like Machiaveilli, or Churchill, or etc. would have said? People with whom we may or may not want to agree because we approve/disapprove of them ... but who were in any case rather trenchant observers of human nature? As I said elsewhere, my great-grandfather would fall into that camp - utterly brilliant man, but a sexist bigot.

Now, what was that funny thing you were saying about "any lefty"? What do you do when you find "existence proofs" that invalidate your opinions?

pefjr
10-07-2013, 11:47 AM
Peffy, put down that damned wide brush.

Yes, Johnson was a bigot. Guess what - we've talked before about how there's racism across True Blue places like Boston too. My God!

Yes, Johnson was also right. Didn't you see my earlier post in this thread, comparing the quote with the kind of thing people like Machiaveilli, or Churchill, or etc. would have said? People with whom we may or may not want to agree because we approve/disapprove of them ... but who were in any case rather trenchant observers of human nature? As I said elsewhere, my great-grandfather would fall into that camp - utterly brilliant man, but a sexist bigot.

Now, what was that funny thing you were saying about "any lefty"? What do you do when you find "existence proofs" that invalidate your opinions?When you or any other lefty will say Johnson was wrong because of his bigoted classification of white and black, then I will change my "any to most all". Note* no lefty would have a single problem admitting this, if that statement was made by a Republican, in fact the thread lefties would have a celebration going on that they had found a red bigot.:d:D

Keith Wilson
10-07-2013, 11:48 AM
Oy. Of course he was a bigot. Lyndon Johnson was born on a farm near Stonewall Texas in 1908. It would have been a major-league miracle had he not been racially prejudiced. He also signed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act, ending legal segregation in the US, probably the single greatest advance for racial minorities since the end of slavery.

In the quote in the OP, he was also right - and who would know better?

pefjr
10-07-2013, 11:51 AM
Oy. Of course he was a bigot. Lyndon Johnson was born on a farm near Stonewall Texas in 1908. It would have been a major-league miracle had he not been racially prejudiced. He also signed the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act, ending legal segregation in the US, probably the single greatest advance for racial minorities since the end of slavery.

In the quote in the OP, he was also right - and who would know better?I personally know of many major league miracles, your blanket is not quite big enough. You are correct, Johnson was not one.

TomF
10-07-2013, 11:53 AM
Jesus, Peffy. Johnson chose "black and white" because it was obviously true in his time and place ... and BTW is still true in ours. In that it was not only evidence of racism, but was also an example which illuminated the principle. Would you prefer Johnathan Swift's "Big Enders" vs. "Little Enders"? Same principle, different illustration.

If you'd prefer to pick another couple of groups to oppose each other - Japan's pretty xenophobic about Korea, IIRC - feel free. Canada's varied multicultural population isn't so hot on First Nations folks, if we need to use an example close to where I live.

Your reading comprehension skills run to understanding how specific illustrations can describe general principles, yes?

TomF
10-07-2013, 11:59 AM
You know? Fook it, Peffy. I've finally concluded that 4 times out of 5 at least your game is just to see how riled you can get people. If they start to sputter and get angry, you've won.

You started well on the forum, IMO, especially on music-related threads. But mostly you've become a troll, these past months. What a waste.

pefjr
10-07-2013, 11:59 AM
Jesus, Peffy. Johnson chose "black and white" because it was obviously true in his time and place ... and BTW is still true in ours. In that it was not only evidence of racism, but was also an example which illuminated the principle. Would you prefer Johnathan Swift's "Big Enders" vs. "Little Enders"? Same principle, different illustration.

If you'd prefer to pick another couple of groups to oppose each other - Japan's pretty xenophobic about Korea, IIRC - feel free. Canada's varied multicultural population isn't so hot on First Nations folks, if we need to use an example close to where I live.

Your reading comprehension skills run to understanding how specific illustrations can describe general principles, yes?You are spinning like a top. A simple question was asked several times and you can't reason enough to answer it. Not one lefty can reason out the bigotry from the question. Keith's blanket illustrates more of the same prejudice against the south, by assuming everyone was racist.

pefjr
10-07-2013, 12:01 PM
You know? Fook it, Peffy. I've finally concluded that 4 times out of 5 at least your game is just to see how riled you can get people. If they start to sputter and get angry, you've won.

You started well on the forum, IMO, especially on music-related threads. But mostly you've become a troll, these past months. What a waste.
Your final statement? Typical fall back to ad hom, still no answer. Go soak your head Tom, there is an answer to the question.

TomF
10-07-2013, 12:03 PM
You are spinning like a top. A simple question was asked several times and you can't reason enough to answer it. Not one lefty can reason out the bigotry from the question. Keith's blanket illustrates more of the same prejudice against the south, by assuming everyone was racist.Blah blah blah. If you're dizzy, maybe it's because you're spinning and can't possibly read what folks are actually writing. I feel like I'm talking to SamF.

Nobody's showing prejudice against the South here - in the time and place, it was far more common to be racist than not. As true in Winnipeg where my great-grandfather lived as in Texas - though they tended to express racism against different groups.

And yes, Johnson was racist. And his racist black/white example also illustrates a general principle.

TomF
10-07-2013, 12:04 PM
Your final statement? Typical fall back to ad hom, still no answer. Go soak your head Tom, there is an answer to the question.It's not ad hom if it is the truth, Peffy. It's just very sad.

pefjr
10-07-2013, 12:11 PM
It's not ad hom if it is the truth, Peffy. It's just very sad.How many times have I seen this flimsy excuse? Any person that does not have a strong political bias blockage can answer the question.

pefjr
10-07-2013, 12:26 PM
His racist black/white example also illustrates a general principle.Possibly , but one must get past the bigotry of the statement, and answer the question the bigotry exposed first. And now , you have exposed another,

in the time and place, it was far more common to be racist than not
Far more common? to what degree? I grew up in the deep south so I know how common it was, but you do not, yet you have assumed it to be far more common, just as Johnson assumed a low class and high class based on ignorant criteria. Abraham Lincoln was born into such bigotry as my parents were, yet somehow they reasoned differently. A much higher % of Southerners could reason than you or Keith have given them credit for. Much higher. In fact , some even risk their life, and many lost their life over this issue. I don't know how you could find a principle illustrated by that ignorance without the clarification of the high/low question. One would have to ignore the bigotry, thereby condoning the ignorance.

Keith Wilson
10-07-2013, 12:35 PM
God help us, you could give lessons in obstinacy to mules. Pointing out that racism was common in rural Texas in the early 20th century is stating the obvious. My point, which you appear to have missed, was that Lyndon Johnson did manage to transcend the general attitudes of the place in which he grew up. .

oznabrag
10-07-2013, 12:37 PM
God help us, you could give lessons in obstinacy to mules. Pointing out that racism was common in rural Texas in the early 20th century is stating the obvious. My point, which you appear to have missed, was that Lyndon Johnson did manage to transcend the general attitudes of the place in which he grew up. .

He's qualified to give reading comprehension lessons to mules, too.

wardd
10-07-2013, 02:05 PM
The statement says Johnson was a bigot. He was also a dem, and that prevents any lefty from admitting such and moving on. Twist and spin all you want, it just shows your bias is so strong that you can't reason.

the question was "was johnson right" not what was johnson

bobbys
10-07-2013, 02:47 PM
God help us, you could give lessons in obstinacy to mules. Pointing out that racism was common in rural Texas in the early 20th century is stating the obvious. My point, which you appear to have missed, was that Lyndon Johnson did manage to transcend the general attitudes of the place in which he grew up. ..

What Liberals miss here and are avoiding is The truth Snobby Libs look at the south or Trailer people as trash..

So one bigotry was replaced with another..

bobbys
10-07-2013, 02:52 PM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png.

I can see you will not back up your thread yet.

This goes along with the propaganda of putting up what libs see as trailer trash then hiding.

Its all there in your site.

The "knowledge" Movement.

"Most importantly we believe you cannot have rational dialogue with irrational people. Engaging the Right would undermine any solutions, not advance them..

It is hard to have a rational dialogue when libs think conservative white people are all hanging around the trailer riding around in the General Lee and going to Snake handling class.

bobbys
10-07-2013, 02:56 PM
They know that Johnson was a racist, based on what many of the left judge to be a racist, Johnson fits perfectly. However he did produce changes in the country, mainly in the south that contradict his racism. What is hilarious is the dribble of lefties that enter this thread with their opinion on his statement that CC first posted. Not a one can answer mine and Bobby's question of what they think Johnson meant with his classifying the scale of high and low. That classification alone sets Johnson off as a bigot. We already know he was a racist and a bigot, and a stupid military strategist, but the hilarity is no lefty has answered the question, which only requires a simple confirmation of what we already know. Watching them squirm, twist, spin, make excuses is the entertainment of the thread, so please don't send them off to the library.:d.

No Lib will dare to say who is a low class colored man. Or A high class white or black man

Pretty brave to put down trailer people though.

Thats why I said Checkmate.

Thats why they are doing everything to change the subject or attack personally.

Thats the only options here for them..

But hey a Lib started the thread.

wardd
10-07-2013, 02:57 PM
.

No Lib will dare to say who is a low class colored man. Or A high class white or black man

Pretty brave to put down trailer people though.

Thats why I said Checkmate.

Thats why they are doing everything to change the subject or attack personally.

Thats the only options here for them..

But hey a Lib started the thread.

one more time, it's about perceptions not reality

TomF
10-07-2013, 03:04 PM
High class black man? How about Barack Obama? Maybe Colin Powell? I like Nelson Mandela too.

Low class white man? Back when I worked Child Welfare files, most of the white kids on my caseloads came from such families. Dad was often either a drunk or addict, beat up his wife and kids. Or maybe was gone, and the man in the picture was the mom's (current) boyfriend. One winner that comes to mind was head of a local biker gang affiliated with the Hell's Angels, who wore rather interesting knobbly rings so they'd do more damage when he hit someone.

I'd class a few businessmen I knew in the low class aspect too - equally criminal and equally conscienceless, but with more money. There are some of those who happen to be Black too, I'm sure, but I didn't meet them where I lived.

That answer your questions enough?

bobbys
10-07-2013, 03:16 PM
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/971009_648224248524208_1531188576_n.png.

Yeah i looked the the "knowledge " site and saw a photo shopped pic of SP with a cross with a misquote of Sinclair Lewis...

LOL