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Ian McColgin
06-27-2013, 03:56 PM
Bangor police chief accidentally shoots self with new duty weapon

By Nok-Noi Ricker, BDN Staff
Posted June 25, 2013, at 9:52 a.m.
Last modified June 26, 2013, at 2:28 p.m.

Courtesy of Bangor Police Department
Bangor Police Chief Mark Hathaway

BANGOR, Maine — The city’s new police chief was cleaning his newly issued weapon Monday afternoon and apparently shot himself in the hand, according to a press release issued by a city official Tuesday.

Chief Mark Hathaway, a 25-year veteran officer who was selected as the city’s chief in April, and other officers had just returned from training with their new guns in Brewer when the shooting took place.

“At approximately 5:15 p.m., while officers were cleaning their new guns at the Bangor police station, Chief Mark Hathaway sustained a non-life threatening injury to his left hand in what appears to be an accidental discharge of his duty weapon,” City Manager Cathy Conlow said in the statement.

Lt. Tim Reid is investigating the shooting. Messages left for Reid and Hathaway were not returned Tuesday.

Hathaway was taken to Eastern Maine Medical Center for treatment and later released, the press release states.

The gun Hathaway was using — a .45-caliber semiautomatic Glock — is new for the department, said Sgt. Paul Edwards.

“There are different mechanisms in this gun that is for sure,” Edwards said.

The city got a Justice Assistance Grant from the federal government last fall that provided the $10,800 needed to purchase the new weapons, said Bob Farrar, Bangor’s assistant city manager. The department currently has 82 sworn officers.

“We essentially replaced the department’s firearms,” he said. “We had Sig Sauer .45-caliber semiautomatic [handguns] and moved to Glocks.”

Every officer in the department has been issued the new weapon, and the chief was part of the first round of training. His injury was to his pinky finger, which is still intact, Edwards said.

“[Hathaway’s] message is going to be train, train, train,” the sergeant said. “We’re always reporting [about] people outside accidentally shooting themselves. It can happen to a police officer too. Gun safety is extremely important. That is the message he wants to relay.”

A Maine State Police lieutenant accidentally discharged his weapon in February at a staff meeting, when he shifted in his seat and his holstered weapon went off. An investigation concluded in May by a division of the Maine State Police was unable to determine why his firearm accidentally discharged during the computer training session.

Watch bangordailynews.com for updates.

# # #

Paul Pless
06-27-2013, 03:58 PM
Dumbass

Captain Intrepid
06-27-2013, 04:07 PM
I'm no expert... but doesn't one unload a gun before cleaning it?

S.V. Airlie
06-27-2013, 04:39 PM
They unload the gun by firing it repeatedly don't ya know?:)

BrianW
06-27-2013, 04:54 PM
Waste of money, and the police chief made a huge professional mistake.

I know that 'shooters' in certain security companies are fired for an ND (negligent discharge, accidental discharge 'AD' is a term that doesn't exist for them) immediately.

The few examples I've been told about, the shooter simply went to his room and started packing. No need or desire to argue the point.

The Bigfella
06-27-2013, 04:56 PM
You elect the police chief? That explains it

wardd
06-27-2013, 04:57 PM
I'm no expert... but doesn't one unload a gun before cleaning it?

apparently not

hokiefan
06-27-2013, 05:00 PM
You elect the police chief? That explains it

Varies from city to city. I don't see where the article said this guy was elected, it did say he was selected.

Cheers,

Bobby

Reynard38
06-27-2013, 05:11 PM
Never did like the Glock. Some people really prefer them, but the safety and internal hammer seem to hide the status of the weapon.
Back when I bought my pistol I called a friend of mine that at the time was the Naval Atache to the White House. He was very familiar with weapons and also knew some of the SS guys and girls. Both he and they recommended the Sig.
They are expensive, but that isn't a place to go cheap.
And yes you are supposed to assure the weapon is empty before cleaning it.

Paul Pless
06-27-2013, 05:48 PM
Never did like the Glock. Some people really prefer them, but the safety and internal hammer seem to hide the status of the weapon. They're supposed to mimic the long and heavy DA trigger pull of a standard 'service revolver' with the added advantage of higher capacity. The reason for that long and heavy pull is to make it less likely that someone will 'accidentally' fire their weapon in a high stress scenario. I've never liked them either. . .

Willin'
06-27-2013, 06:06 PM
If a trained expert and professional law enforcement official can make such a dangerous mistake, imagine what an untrained, under-educated, over confident novice with a recently purchased gun can do. Thank goodness the NRA is diligently protecting us from such a potential occurrence by encouraging gun ownership and use to the least common denominator of society. Oops, thread drift.

Paul Pless
06-27-2013, 06:13 PM
He was very familiar with weapons and also knew some of the SS guys and girls. Both he and they recommended the Sig. Oh btw, the Sig that the Secret Service use is DA on the first shot, and SA on subsequent shots. However, they are being converted to DA only configurations. . .

Waddie
06-27-2013, 06:40 PM
The dumbest move was replacing that excellent Sig with a Glock.

regards,
Waddie

John Smith
06-28-2013, 08:43 AM
If a trained expert and professional law enforcement official can make such a dangerous mistake, imagine what an untrained, under-educated, over confident novice with a recently purchased gun can do. Thank goodness the NRA is diligently protecting us from such a potential occurrence by encouraging gun ownership and use to the least common denominator of society. Oops, thread drift.

I think it's human nature to get complacent in so far as safety measures are concerned.

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 11:01 AM
I think it's human nature to get complacent in so far as safety measures are concerned.

That is why in a safe organization the conversation and training around safety are incessant. EVERY meeting begins with a safety moment, every incident no matter how small is investigated, safety related action items are tracked to completion. Safety is discussed and worked on each and every day. Complacency is one of the key behaviors that is warned and guarded against. When all that is done you have a prayer of achieving a safe organization.

Cheers,

Bobby

Willin'
06-28-2013, 11:53 AM
I think it's human nature to get complacent in so far as safety measures are concerned.

Oh boy, I hear a new NRA slogan abirthing here. Guns don't kill people, complacency kills people. :d

bogdog
06-28-2013, 12:03 PM
Probably wouldn't have happened if they hadn't hired in-house...

BrianW
06-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Never did like the Glock...


I've never liked them either. . .

Same opinion here.

If they were truly indestructible, and didn't suffer mechanical failures, I might could like them. But I've seen them screwed up, so the hype doesn't match the reality. Plus my small hands (yes, I know the jokes :)) make it hard to press the magazine release button during a quick reload without shifting the position of the pistol in my grip slightly.

bogdog
06-28-2013, 12:30 PM
I still like revolversWith a scope is nice.

htom
06-28-2013, 12:39 PM
Rule number one: Firearms are always loaded.

Some (all? I don't use Glocks much, don't own one) Glocks need to be dry-fired (have the trigger pulled on an empty chamber) as a step in dismantling for cleaning. That could explain the trigger pull resulting in the negligent discharge; it doesn't explain the chamber not being empty, or how he had his pinky in line with the muzzle.

Oh, rule number two: Never let the muzzle cover anything you don't want destroyed.

Well, he had a brain fart and thought the gun was empty, and proceeded.

Rule number three: Never put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire.

He was, and the firearm was; he thought it wasn't. Rule one, again.

Rule number four: Be sure of your target, and what is above, below, beside, beyond, and through that target.

Since his pinky didn't contain the bullet, it would be informative to learn where it ended its flight. Probably not a safe backstop. Perhaps he doesn't know of clearing barrels?

I have not (yet, thank the gods) had a negligent discharge. I keep expecting to.

I suspect he didn't. He's a Chief of Police, after all, and those things happen to other people.

bogdog
06-28-2013, 12:53 PM
He' certainly lucky none of the other officers with him were hit. I have a family friend who tried to shoot their head off with a .357 mag one afternoon. The bullet traveled clear through two homes before lodging in a tree. Two people were in the house next door. Luckily nobody was hurt.

bogdog
06-28-2013, 01:12 PM
go wash out youar mouth

a scope on a hand gun is like a scope on a penis... and about as useful

keep it simple

Helps when you're deer hunting, so watch yer mouth.

Reynard38
06-28-2013, 03:43 PM
With a scope is nice.

The Lord Humongous agrees.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/Reynard38/c7cef0906a15b9eb58a12f7139e2d81c.jpg

wardd
06-28-2013, 04:27 PM
Same opinion here.

If they were truly indestructible, and didn't suffer mechanical failures, I might could like them. But I've seen them screwed up, so the hype doesn't match the reality. Plus my small hands (yes, I know the jokes :)) make it hard to press the magazine release button during a quick reload without shifting the position of the pistol in my grip slightly.

which is why an updated 45 is comming back

BrianW
06-28-2013, 09:42 PM
which is why an updated 45 is comming back

A Glock 1911?

Waddie
06-28-2013, 09:45 PM
That is why in a safe organization the conversation and training around safety are incessant. EVERY meeting begins with a safety moment, every incident no matter how small is investigated, safety related action items are tracked to completion. Safety is discussed and worked on each and every day. Complacency is one of the key behaviors that is warned and guarded against. When all that is done you have a prayer of achieving a safe organization.

Cheers,

Bobby

I really needed you around when I was working for OSHA............. :)

regards,
Waddie

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 10:05 PM
I really needed you around when I was working for OSHA............. :)

regards,
Waddie

I've worked for 3 different chemical companies. The first at one point had a TRIR of 8, thats basically 8 people out of 100 get hurt to the point of needing medical treatment of some kind every year. Its a pretty piss poor record. In a management meeting the boss was asking how we could address it. I pointed out that we didn't actively manage our safety efforts, they just kind of happened, or not. He took offense to that, but later in the meeting came back to that point and agreed. He was a good boss like that. We put together a coherent effort to actively manage our safety improvement effort. A year later we were at 4, another year 2, then a year later a bit over 1. I was pretty impressed with that. Then I moved to the next company.

They were the ones that lived and breathed safety like my earlier post. They had gone from around a 3 TRIR to less than 0.5 over the 2 years before I got there. They maintained it through the 5+ years I was there. And I was surprised, but they were definitely not hiding injuries. You wanna get canned, just hide an incident. The parent company was averaging a bit over 0.5 which is quite good for a 10,000 person company. A plant manager who stayed over 1 for an extended period of time probably wouldn't stay plant manager.

The last place I worked thought they had a good safety culture. They did a lot of work on safety related issues and covered some very well. But it wasn't the constant, first topic of conversation. I found some behaviors that simply scared the crap out of me, several I stopped instantly. But we had a long way to go. They had an incident rate of around 2 for the last 5 years.

I've learned a lot about what it takes, and if I can accomplish it the next stop will look like number two in time.

Cheers,

Bobby

Waddie
06-28-2013, 10:17 PM
It was my experience that safety started from the top, and people like Dean Allen made it a priority. I'll bet he didn't tolerate "cowboy" behavior and didn't think it was funny. Up until about a year ago I was doing safety "checkups" for private construction companies. They all had, as is required, a designated safety officer, and that's who I worked with. I would double check their records system (many get dinged for poor record keeping - for instance; every chemical that comes on site must be logged and have a material data safety sheet on file) and then walk the sites and make recommendations. I think safety has become more of a priority in most industries, as insurance rate hikes due to poor safety records ( or lots of OSHA dings) can be brutal - like XXXXX times higher.

regards,
Waddie

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 10:28 PM
this happened to someone I knew... an unopened case of Quaker State oil with a single can of Penzoil sitting on top... both 30wt standard stuff... my friend got fined because although he had MSDS sheets on the Quaker State... he didn't have any for the single can of Penzoil

you can assure me that OSHA doesn't do that any more but they are still unforgiven

A decent lawyer would beat that in a heartbeat. But it would cost more than the fine.

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 10:38 PM
this happened to someone I knew... an unopened case of Quaker State oil with a single can of Penzoil sitting on top... both 30wt standard stuff... my friend got fined because although he had MSDS sheets on the Quaker State... he didn't have any for the single can of Penzoil

you can assure me that OSHA doesn't do that any more but they are still unforgiven


A decent lawyer would beat that in a heartbeat. But it would cost more than the fine.


when we make such agencies 'self funding', we turn loose the hounds of hell

Well what the big companies do is this. "We'll agree with these three citations, explain why number four should be reconsidered, and laugh at number five. No way are we paying that." Because they never only find one thing, and usually half or more are legit. So they agree with the legit, pay the fine, and tell OSHA to take them to court for the stupid stuff. Its all bargaining chips, OSHA doesn't want to take anyone to court for stupid stuff either.

Cheers,

Bobby

BrianW
06-28-2013, 10:39 PM
A decent lawyer would beat that in a heartbeat. But it would cost more than the fine.

I'm thinking a generic 30w oil MSDS would be fine too.

Companies are not required to release proprietary ingredient information on a MSDS.

Something doesn't add up.

Waddie
06-28-2013, 10:39 PM
A decent lawyer would beat that in a heartbeat. But it would cost more than the fine.

UTube has some great clips of stupid construction accidents. And everyone has OSHA stories of them being overzealous. I used to teach that ANY hole in a floor be covered, and in addition, even though not required, that the piece of temporary covering (usually a piece of plywood) be marked "hole cover - do not use", in big letters. Why? Five workers are hauling bags of cement across that floor, when another worker, who needs a piece of ply, sees one laying there and picks it up to use. Pretty soon a worker carrying a bag of cement walks through the hole because he had walked that route all morning and didn't notice that someone had moved the cover. Sometimes small things become big things......

regards,
Waddie

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 10:44 PM
UTube has some great clips of stupid construction accidents. And everyone has OSHA stories of them being overzealous. I used to teach that ANY hole in a floor be covered, and in addition, even though not required, that the piece of temporary covering (usually a piece of plywood) be marked "hole cover - do not use", in big letters. Why? Five workers are hauling bags of cement across that floor, when another worker, who needs a piece of ply, sees one laying there and picks it up to use. Pretty soon a worker carrying a bag of cement walks through the hole because he had walked that route all morning and didn't notice that someone had moved the cover. Sometimes small things become big things......

regards,
Waddie

Actually, a floor hole cover like that needs to be secured. Don't know what the law says, but an unsecured piece of plywood covering a hole on the second floor is no way safe, even if marked. Possibly OK for shallow holes in the ground floor.

Cheers,

Bobby

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 11:06 PM
my 'quick' way of dealing with holes is to place a tough cover over it asnd then stack blocks or anything not likely to be moved on it... big marking crayons aren't always available... plus many Spanish speaking people do not read English

In chemical plants the floors are typically grating. We require the hole covers to be drilled and wired down in multiple places. Or bolted if that is easier. I don't sleep good relying on "not likely".

On a ground floor where the cover is just covering a very uneven walking surface I'm a little more lenient.

Cheers,

Bobby

hokiefan
06-28-2013, 11:21 PM
I envisioned what I experienced... concrete floors or perhaps the grey, corrigated looking roofing metal... no gratings around masonry... the customer deosn't like it getting filed up with mortar... they would lend themselves to being wired to though... I have shot nails into some concrete floors to make lon g term covers...can't always do that though

We occasionally have concrete upper floors although I didn't address them. We still required the cover to be physically secured. Sometimes you can fasten it to other structural steel. Sometimes they had to sink anchors. The other option was to build a compliant barricade. Masonry nails are an option as you mentioned. This is pretty recent though, last 5-10 years, it hasn't always gotten that much attention.

I found a situation last fall that blew my mind. At a Tee in and elevated walkway, contractors had removed the grating in stem of the T. The only barricade was a single strand of yellow caution tape. And in the yellow sodium lights in the area, that basically was invisible. Thats the kind of trap that gets people killed. I found it wandering around about 8 o'clock at night, the contractors had been gone for hours. We barricaded it for the night by wiring a pallet across the opening, then used a ladder to get to the other side of the hole to do the same thing. The contractor had pictures waiting on his desk the next morning and got an ear full. They had meant to put the grating back. How they barricaded it wasn't adequate even if they were right there working on it.

Cheers,

Bobby

Paul Pless
06-29-2013, 05:45 AM
why hunt with a short barreled, stockless rifle (handgun with scope) when a rifle is available...why fire a rifle at silhouettes a thousand yards away with iron sights when scopes are available?


Seriously, here's one reason for you: its illegal to hunt in Southern Michigan with a rifle. Do you deny that scoped pistols are more accurate than non scoped pistols?

Paul Pless
06-29-2013, 05:51 AM
when we make such agencies 'self funding', we turn loose the hounds of hell

OSHA is not self funding.

Paul Pless
06-29-2013, 07:56 AM
Now you're being pedantic.

Paul Pless
06-29-2013, 08:03 AM
your biases are showing

a scope doesn't make a bullet from a rifle go ant further or hit any harder either. . .

Paul Pless
06-29-2013, 08:34 AM
like in the waist band... you carry pistols and revolvers in your waistband?

Sorry, I prefer holsters. And scoped handguns fit in them just fine. . .

Nicholas Carey
06-29-2013, 10:11 AM
The dumbest move was replacing that excellent Sig with a Glock.

regards,
Waddie

+1. Just because the Glock is the cool toy doesn't it's a better toy.

Captain Intrepid
06-29-2013, 10:40 AM
handguns are supposed to be portable... if it cannot be carried like any other handgun... like in the waist band...

I never realized you was so gangsta!

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4040/475g.jpg

bluedog225
06-30-2013, 05:15 PM
I don't normally post on gun threads.

It is important to do more than just check the chamber. You need to inspect the chamber and look towards the area where the bullet seats to see if the extractor failed to remove the round. That is, you can operate the slide and think the firearm is safely unloaded and a very minor and common mechanical malfunction or casing irregularity can leave a live round chambered.

hokiefan
06-30-2013, 05:41 PM
I don't normally post on gun threads.

It is important to do more than just check the chamber. You need to inspect the chamber and look towards the area where the bullet seats to see if the extractor failed to remove the round. That is, you can operate the slide and think the firearm is safely unloaded and a very minor and common mechanical malfunction or casing irregularity can leave a live round chambered.

Whatever it takes to safe the gun, the Police Chief didn't do it.

Cheers,

Bobby