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View Full Version : Why is Russia against the USA?



genglandoh
06-26-2013, 07:40 AM
I have not been keeping up with the news in the past few weeks.

Russia has been giving weapons to the Government of Syria and how they are helping the NSA whistleblower Snowden.

Does anyone know why Russia is against the US on these issues?

LeeG
06-26-2013, 07:50 AM
Why does the US want to destabilize countries that border Russia? Ok,ok, not border but nearby.

skuthorp
06-26-2013, 07:50 AM
Russia has a naval base in Syria, and has supported Assad for some time. Putin is an old fashioned KGB man with his eye to his own advantage. His grip is not so slowly tightening on the country and he senses America's weakness and knows you can do nothing if he is just patient.

Mrleft8
06-26-2013, 07:59 AM
Another way to look at it might be "Why is the USA against Russia?".... Or any other country that doesn't do exactly as we tell them to do the second we tell them.
The thing is, there aren't that many countries that have the where-with-all to act independently..... Russia is one.

Gerarddm
06-26-2013, 09:58 AM
Because they want to maintain the fiction that they are a great power.

Yes, yes, they have a lot of nukes, but their cultural suasion is gone. They have some oil, some gas, and a lot of drunks. That's about it. Putin is effectively strangling whatever hope they had of flourishing.

Hwyl
06-26-2013, 10:03 AM
I am deeply ashamed at the way the USA treated Bradley Manninng and I think the rest of the world is disgusted. No civilised country should allow extradition of a whistleblower

Y Bar Ranch
06-26-2013, 10:16 AM
I am deeply ashamed at the way the USA treated Bradley Manninng and I think the rest of the world is disgusted. No civilised country should allow extradition of a whistleblower
LOL that Snowden would go to/through China, the ultimate domestic surveillance state, on his route to complain about domestic surveillance. After China extracted their pound of propaganda flesh and undoubtedly imaged the hard drives on his four laptops, all in the name of strengthening their single party control of the country and helping keep their 1.3 Billion people under their domestic surveillance thumb, they kicked that piece of $%& right to the curb.

Now the russians, with their well-known track record of poisoning political opponents and journalists, get to help poor Mr. Snowden get a good night's sleep while they have their way with his data.

He went from whistleblower to enemy of the state with his actions. We should definitely hunt him down.

Durnik
06-26-2013, 10:51 AM
I am deeply ashamed at the way the USA treated Bradley Manning and I think the rest of the world is disgusted. No civilised country should allow extradition of a whistleblower

Yes.


He went from whistleblower to enemy of the state with his actions.

Not 'enemy of the state', but 'enemy of the entrenched power structures'. There _is_ a difference - & I'm good with that.



And Graham, "Russia is against us'? Oh the horrors.. Wait - You get to be 'against us' (Dems are bad, Obama is worse).. But they don't? Say What?

Why are righties so.. short sighted.. so narrow minded.. so, idiotic? Were they all dropped on their heads as babies? Did their moms do too much cocaine?

I'm typing this slowly so the slow can follow.. 'Russia' might just be against 'us' because the U.S. is against them..

If we started to play fair, others might also..

Think about it.

Oh, Did I just tell a righty to think? I'm sorry. Never mind.. Here, have some (http://www.glennbeck.com)more (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/)cool-aid (http://fox.com)..

peace
bobby

Hwyl
06-26-2013, 10:58 AM
LOL that Snowden would go to/through China, the ultimate domestic surveillance state, on his route to complain about domestic surveillance. After China extracted their pound of propaganda flesh and undoubtedly imaged the hard drives on his four laptops, all in the name of strengthening their single party control of the country and helping keep their 1.3 Billion people under their domestic surveillance thumb, they kicked that piece of $%& right to the curb.

Now the russians, with their well-known track record of poisoning political opponents and journalists, get to help poor Mr. Snowden get a good night's sleep while they have their way with his data.

He went from whistleblower to enemy of the state with his actions. We should definitely hunt him down.


And the US has protected and empowered dissidents from those countries, particularly China.

Do you agree that Bradley Manning's constitutional rights were consistently violated

ljb5
06-26-2013, 11:42 AM
Russia has been giving weapons to the Government of Syria and how they are helping the NSA whistleblower Snowden.

Does anyone know why Russia is against the US on these issues?

What a peculiarly Amero-centric view of the world.

I'm not saying I approve of what either Russia or Syria is doing, but I can accept the fact that they might go about their own business without seeking approval or permission from the U.S.

Y Bar Ranch
06-26-2013, 11:51 AM
And the US has protected and empowered dissidents from those countries, particularly China.
Indeed. Snowden has struck a blow against them. Sad.


Do you agree that Bradley Manning's constitutional rights were consistently violated
No

Y Bar Ranch
06-26-2013, 11:53 AM
Yes.



Not 'enemy of the state', but 'enemy of the entrenched power structures'. There _is_ a difference - & I'm good with that.
By his actions he became a friend of the planet's biggest, baddest entrenched power structure, the Chinese Communist Party. Until his utility was gone, that is. Then they threw him out.

Reynard38
06-26-2013, 12:00 PM
I have not been keeping up with the news in the past few weeks.

Russia has been giving weapons to the Government of Syria and how they are helping the NSA whistleblower Snowden.

Does anyone know why Russia is against the US on these issues?

Giving or selling? Somebody is making good coin on those weapons (both here and in Russia).
Follow the $$ trail.
Only 3 reasons a politician does something other than working on getting reelected.
1. $$
2. Sex
3. Fear

Hugh Conway
06-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Because it serves the internal purposes of it's politicians to have external boogeyman to stand up to and appear strong.

JimD
06-26-2013, 01:56 PM
Yes.



Not 'enemy of the state', but 'enemy of the entrenched power structures'. There _is_ a difference - & I'm good with that.



And Graham, "Russia is against us'? Oh the horrors.. Wait - You get to be 'against us' (Dems are bad, Obama is worse).. But they don't? Say What?

Why are righties so.. short sighted.. so narrow minded.. so, idiotic? Were they all dropped on their heads as babies? Did their moms do too much cocaine?

I'm typing this slowly so the slow can follow.. 'Russia' might just be against 'us' because the U.S. is against them..

If we started to play fair, others might also..

Think about it.

Oh, Did I just tell a righty to think? I'm sorry. Never mind.. Here, have some (http://www.glennbeck.com)more (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/)cool-aid (http://fox.com)..

peace
bobby

What I'm hearing is that the Russian ruling mob doesn't care about anything or anybody but themselves and that the American ruling mob doesn't care about anything or anybody but themselves and that sometimes the interests of these two mobs conflict. Is that about right?

John How
06-26-2013, 02:06 PM
What I'm hearing is that the Russian ruling mob doesn't care about anything or anybody but themselves and that the American ruling mob doesn't care about anything or anybody but themselves and that sometimes the interests of these two mobs conflict. Is that about right?

To quote an old song "Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was​, same as it ever was"

Osborne Russell
06-26-2013, 02:55 PM
By his actions he became a friend of the planet's biggest, baddest entrenched power structure, the Chinese Communist Party. Until his utility was gone, that is. Then they threw him out.

Yes, that doesn't seem to have been well thought out, to put it mildly.

Cuyahoga Chuck
06-26-2013, 04:21 PM
I am deeply ashamed at the way the USA treated Bradley Manninng and I think the rest of the world is disgusted. No civilised country should allow extradition of a whistleblower

Who needs extradition? The Ruskies don't.
Russia had a whistleblower/defector in London not long ago. Putin sent an agent known to the defector. They had tea together. The defector died shortly thereafter from consuming radioactive tea. Game, set, match.

skuthorp
06-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Because it serves the internal purposes of it's politicians to have external boogeyman to stand up to and appear strong.
Not for nothing have sales of ORWELL'S 1984 increased, "As of yesterday morning, sales in the US on Amazon.com of Orwell’s dystopian classic had risen an incredible 5,771%, with one edition even reaching the top 100 bestselling books. On the website’s Movers and Shakers (http://www.amazon.com/gp/movers-and-shakers/books) list, the novel has a current sales rank of 80, up from 12,507 just a few days ago. Two editions of the book occupy the 16th and 17th places for highest surge in sales.".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/10115599/Sales-of-Orwells-1984-rocket-in-wake-of-US-Prism-surveillance-scandal.html

Peerie Maa
06-26-2013, 04:37 PM
I have not been keeping up with the news in the past few weeks.

Russia has been giving weapons to the Government of Syria and how they are helping the NSA whistleblower Snowden.

Does anyone know why Russia is against the US on these issues?

Think about the US attitude to any communist government (even democratically elected ones) since the 1950's.

Any clues?

Clarkey
06-26-2013, 05:18 PM
I imagine that Russia and China are highly amused by these developments. They have had to endure endless preaching about human rights from the USA and are revelling in it now the mask is slipping. There can't be many people left who truly believe that the USA are the whiter-than-white good guys, everything is shades of grey.

genglandoh
06-26-2013, 06:26 PM
Yes.



Not 'enemy of the state', but 'enemy of the entrenched power structures'. There _is_ a difference - & I'm good with that.



And Graham, "Russia is against us'? Oh the horrors.. Wait - You get to be 'against us' (Dems are bad, Obama is worse).. But they don't? Say What?

Why are righties so.. short sighted.. so narrow minded.. so, idiotic? Were they all dropped on their heads as babies? Did their moms do too much cocaine?

I'm typing this slowly so the slow can follow.. 'Russia' might just be against 'us' because the U.S. is against them..

If we started to play fair, others might also..

Think about it.

Oh, Did I just tell a righty to think? I'm sorry. Never mind.. Here, have some (http://www.glennbeck.com)more (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/)cool-aid (http://fox.com)..

peace
bobby

What are you talking about.
In the pass 4 years the US has not done anything against Russia.
You could even say the US has been doing things that Russia would want.
1. Pulling troops out from the middle east
2. Not installing a missile defense shield in eastern Europe.
3. Plans on real cuts the US military budget

Tom Montgomery
06-26-2013, 06:30 PM
Their Cold War feelings are still hurt. It may take a couple of more generations before Russians forget the U.S. hostility toward their nation for some 70 years.

No doubt the Afghanistan problem remains a sore point for Russians, among other issues.

S.V. Airlie
06-26-2013, 06:32 PM
Let's see...we can start with 1917. Then move to a umm uneasy truce during WW2 when we both had a common enemy. Then we cal look at the cold war, the build up of arms, then Cuba and umm Viet nam. Oh, and then afghanistan. Miss any reasons for continued conflict?

delecta
06-26-2013, 06:39 PM
Perhaps if BO had kissed Putin's superbowl ring during his world apology tour things would be different now <sigh>

George Jung
06-26-2013, 06:50 PM
Yep, read somewhere that Putin still resents the collapse of the Soviet Union, and is intent on returning it to the world stage as a major player. Appears to be a nasty buggar, and seemingly enjoys sticking his finger in the USA's eye when able. But I think the views/opinions of folks here is even more revealing. Lots of antipathy/ antagonism toward the US. Nice to see where folks stand, and are coming from.

Frank Wentzel
06-26-2013, 10:03 PM
Why is there antipathy/antagonism? Take another look at this video from wikileaks and tell us again about our valiant warriors. This video was to remain secret from the American people except for the illegal actions of the "anti-American" whistleblowers.

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2011/video/opensecrets/edited.html

In the current case we have secret courts reinterpreting congressional law to include all Americans in this surveillance not just businesses as the law stated and then telling Verizon (and others I presume) that it was illegal to question let alone contest the orders in court. We have had many apologists of this view say that the "others" are attacking us because they hate or are jealous of our "freedom". I submit that our own government is the biggest enemy of our freedom currently on the playing field.

Now as to the “metadata argument” and that a court order would be needed to reach down and get the actual phone conversations - consider that the same secret court that authorized the snooping could authorize further abuse of the system at any time and furthermore make any questioning of the court’s order or revealing the existence of the order itself a crime and consign the questioner to confinement without legal representation.

I believe Snowden has behaved as a true patriot. I believe it was Jefferson who said that the tree of freedom must be fed with the blood of patriots from time to time.

/// Frank ///

George Jung
06-26-2013, 10:13 PM
That's perhaps the biggest load of tripe I've seen in awhile, 'Frank'. Doesn't address what I was talking about, but obviously - you've got issues.

C. Ross
06-26-2013, 10:21 PM
Hockey. Duh.

Durnik
06-27-2013, 12:59 AM
That's perhaps the biggest load of tripe I've seen in awhile, 'Frank'. Doesn't address what I was talking about, but obviously - you've got issues.

Addressed it well.. but it was apparently not what you _wanted_ to see.. Even tho I've read enough of Frank's posts to know he & I don't always see eye_to_eye, I do recognize what he is trying to say.

To 'change a phrase'. "the social contract chafes most those who benefit from it least." As Wallerstein said (http://www2.binghamton.edu/fbc/archive/iw-hk-pao.htm)-


The existing system has not created two homogenized classes (much less one homogenized humanity), but a subtle skein of privilege and exploitation.

Some articulate that better than others.. If we fail in explaining, the fault is ours.. if we fail in understanding - again - the fault is ours.


As to issues - we are all human.. If you are 'issue free', allow me to congratulate you.

peace
bobby

epoxyboy
06-27-2013, 04:36 AM
I have not been keeping up with the news in the past few weeks.

Russia has been giving weapons to the Government of Syria and how they are helping the NSA whistleblower Snowden.

Does anyone know why Russia is against the US on these issues?
On ze Vooden Jachtski Vorum in Russia, some comrade will be posting: America has been giving weapons to the government of Israel, and now they are helping (insert name of defector of choice).
Does anyone know why America is against the USSR on these issues?

Both countries are trying to project power and influence - why on earth do you think the US has a monopoly on that game?

LeeG
06-27-2013, 05:05 AM
Think about the US attitude to any communist government (even democratically elected ones) since the 1950's.

Any clues?

Looking at Ian's thread about UXO in Laos is a hell of a clue.

Durnik
06-27-2013, 01:33 PM
By his actions he became a friend of the planet's biggest, baddest entrenched power structure, the Chinese Communist Party. Until his utility was gone, that is. Then they threw him out.

Mostly true.. I quibble with who is "the planet's biggest, baddest entrenched power structure"..

Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan (Turkey, Syria etc), Cuba, Nicaragua, Columbia, Honduras, Panama.. & on & on, might just quibble, too. In legal terms, the U.S. has 'dirty hands' - some might say 'filthy dirty'..

ETA: Ah, yes Lee.. I should remember to include Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, N. Korea etc - the list goes on..


It is interesting to note that China simply 'threw him out' (gave him an out is more applicable).. as Russia is (sorta) doing.. While the U.S. wants to imprison him. Who, exactly, is the baddest (as in worst - worldwide) power structure? Again, those who benefit from the U.S.'s actions (worldwide) - approve of them. Those who suffer - & worldwide, they are many - don't. The social contract chafes most those who benefit least - some would say - suffer most.

Back to the OP - Snowden's actions (which I suspect is Grahams biggest dislike) have thrown a light on what was known.. but ignored. Legal action in this country cannot occur until there is a known law.. a known violation.. & an infringed party. The ACLU waits for moments such as these.. That, alone, exonerates him. That is why whistle blowers should have at the least 'accepted' status in the U.S., a nation which claims to support individual civil liberties & free speech.

peace
bobby