PDA

View Full Version : LeeG's "focus" on "Big Oil" and it's resulting ramifications on society as a whole.



Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 04:09 PM
There ya go LeeG , lets hear / read it!

seanz
06-01-2013, 04:27 PM
But first, some background.



Apparently you are right , as I've read many of your posts about the evils of oil to include some "shame" thrown from your lil "bully Pulpit" we call WBF. Enlighten me to your "focus" if you can, please don't use shame as one of your tools of enlightenment while doing so!:d


Not on Dales thread, go get a beer and open another thread called "things I just don't get" and I'll play.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 04:30 PM
Thanks for your input seanz! Excellent addition, now if we could get Paul Pless on board with this type of posting , he MIGHT get some respect! LOL

Glen Longino
06-01-2013, 04:35 PM
Thanks for the "background", seanz!
I wondered what Crypto Paul was talking about!;)

seanz
06-01-2013, 04:37 PM
See, what I don't get is this sort of goading.



Evil, gas gulping, abomination to the environment!

Again where is LeeG with the lecture on the evil oil dominated life of this (above who else keeps a car this long ) average US citizen ? :d


Why provoke a response from another member, when you appear to dislike what he has to say?
Unless, secretly, you agree with LeeG and are just waiting for the right time to jump on the band-wagon? Cunning.
;)

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 04:38 PM
Sorry Mr. Longino , I can't see your posts! Have a wonderful day!

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 04:43 PM
See, what I don't get is this sort of goading.





Why provoke a response from another member, when you appear to dislike what he has to say?
Unless, secretly, you agree with LeeG and are just waiting for the right time to jump on the band-wagon? Cunning.
;)

To attempt to understand his view point , stimulate conversation, like one persons tag line say some thing to the effect of , , I never learned any thing from some one I agreed with! Take your pick or a combo of all of the above.

It's a open forum , I give as good as I take . My ignore list is relatively short, three members. Typing thru things makes you think , at least it does me, some may disagree with that I'm sure, the three on my ignore list , at minimum would disagree with that thinking, I'm pretty sure of that!

How about "Cuz I can , because I'm free!" do you need more reasons?

skuthorp
06-01-2013, 04:44 PM
Pointless arguments, regardless of probable or even proveable consequences we are not going to change our behaviour until the market forces it. Personally I think that petrochemicals will become way too valuable for everything else we use them for to remain the basis of personal transport. Plain economics will change the equation, not our will.

Glen Longino
06-01-2013, 05:09 PM
See, what I don't get is this sort of goading.





Why provoke a response from another member, when you appear to dislike what he has to say?
Unless, secretly, you agree with LeeG and are just waiting for the right time to jump on the band-wagon? Cunning.
;)

Careful, Sean, you'll end up #4 on his Ignore List right behind me!:D

Glen Longino
06-01-2013, 05:22 PM
;)Man Glen, when you typed the word "Crypto" you made me nostalgic for the days of "Crypto Pop" those were good times. I didn't "jump-in back then, but it was some awfully good entertainment just to watch.:rolleyes:
:) I often wonder what became of popeye!
One of a kind, that's for sure!:)

LeeG
06-01-2013, 07:20 PM
Oof, I'm full of ribs and slaw, just got back from the little marina in S. Freeport where my daughter and her boyfriend sailed into from MD. I drove up with his table saw and other tools packed into the old Subaru.

Dang diggity Paul I am pleased you opened this up so misconceptions can be layed to rest. Or maybe fire off new ones.


If by "Big Oil" you mean private oil companies or national oil companies my interest isn't there. My interest is how well our society can operate on declining supplies of oil. My interest is in discovering how mass delusions about oil supplies take hold and what sustains them. You have said I think oil is evil or people who drive big cars are somehow bad. That isn't true at all.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 07:33 PM
OK then end of discussion. Everyone happy!

Thanks for clearing this up.

LeeG
06-01-2013, 07:50 PM
Anytime.
Btw, how long does that plastic deck planking last? The heavy stuff that's 1"x6"?

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 07:53 PM
#1: just got back from the little marina in S. Freeport where my daughter and her boyfriend sailed into from MD. I drove up with his table saw and other tools packed into the old Subaru.



#2: My interest is how well our society can operate on declining supplies of oil.

#3: My interest is in discovering how mass delusions about oil supplies take hold and what sustains them.



OK , lets re-boot .

#1: How much sailing did they do, or was most of the trip done under power of a engine , assumed a petro based one? And you drove a "old" Subaru , lets hope it was a clean running one!

#2: So you concerned as the fuel runs out , which it will some day. How many years out do you think this "the end is near" situation will happen? 10, 20, 30 , insert your time line.

#3: Got a link to the "mass delusion" that says we'll never run out? A creditable one please.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 07:55 PM
Anytime.
Btw, how long does that plastic deck planking last? The heavy stuff that's 1"x6"?

In true useable form , or how long will it be until it's gone from the earth / decomposed?

So is this a "trick" question , or are you looking for a good product for your deck that will last , and a estimated "life" of a composite product?

LeeG
06-01-2013, 08:11 PM
OK , lets re-boot .

#1: How much sailing did they do, or was most of the trip done under power of a engine , assumed a petro based one? And you drove a "old" Subaru , lets hope it was a clean running one!

#2: So you concerned as the fuel runs out , which it will some day. How many years out do you think this "the end is near" situation will happen? 10, 20, 30 , insert your time line.

#3: Got a link to the "mass delusion" that says we'll never run out? A creditable one please.

I don't have a breakdown, it's a fat little sailboat with a big engine, 25hp diesel. They had stretches of motoring and sailing.

I am not concerned " as the fuel runs out". I'm concerned with how we manage a no growth economy due to declining oil inputs. Last century it was up, up, up. Last five years have been flat, flat, flat with consumption dropping. It appears $100/barrel oil is a struggle until folks manage at that price.

I don't have a link to "we're deluded" but I'll work on it. Your characterization is not mine. Romney's energy policy was a good example. There are numerous articles popping up in the last year celebrating the increase in US oil production from tight oil as though it is providing some kind of respite from high prices when it's high prices that make that production possible.

LeeG
06-01-2013, 08:14 PM
In true useable form , or how long will it be until it's gone from the earth / decomposed?

So is this a "trick" question , or are you looking for a good product for your deck that will last , and a estimated "life" of a composite product?

Not a trick, we have a floating dock at the shop that uses it. I have no deck. Just curious.

LeeG
06-01-2013, 08:32 PM
OK , lets re-boot .!

#2: So you concerned as the fuel runs out , which it will some day. How many years out do you think this "the end is near" situation will happen? 10, 20, 30 , insert your time line.


I'm not trying to predict the future, the END will be when a car runs me over or I don't wake up. From what I got reading the 2005 Hirsch report and subsequent articles is that we're well into demand destruction from high prices and that the transition to higher efficiency infrastructure will take decades.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 08:33 PM
Not a trick, we have a floating dock at the shop that uses it. I have no deck. Just curious.


The older Trex stuff say 10 / 15 year old stuff swells up , the gaps go away and it swells more . It becomes ugly , but it doesn't rot. We've replaced some of it just because the client wanted a better looking deck.

One of the issues with remodeling a house with a composite deck is you can NEVER match it, they keep changing the profile , changing the colors , it fades so new stuff never blends in etc.

But short answer , if I can manage one today;) , is it will never rot it's mainly replaced because it looks bad.

On a dock salt may break it down some what faster , but I don't recall ever seeing it , personally , in a marine environment.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 08:36 PM
I'm not trying to predict the future, the END will be when a car runs me over or I don't wake up. From what I got reading the 2005 Hirsch report and subsequent articles is that we're well into demand destruction from high prices and that the transition to higher efficiency infrastructure will take decades.


OK , so like some one said when supply gets critical price will drive the POV from existence. My guess is that is 50 years or more out. Well passed my "use before date", therefore not my problem!

LeeG
06-01-2013, 08:43 PM
OK , so like some one said when supply gets critical price will drive the POV from existence. My guess is that is 50 years or more out. Well passed my "use before date", therefore not my problem!

Seems to me you're looking for a square wave "off" setting and there won't be problems till then. I'm saying problems are happening now and will manifest in different ways as world supply and demand tug each other.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 08:51 PM
Seems to me you're looking for a square wave "off" setting and there won't be problems till then. I'm saying problems are happening now and will manifest in different ways as world supply and demand tug each other.


I think we live with that reality every day, when any thing happens in the ME , Arabian Gulf / sea area we see those demands. I call this "life", we deal with it as it comes down the road.

Is there a alternative?

LeeG
06-01-2013, 09:00 PM
I think we live with that reality every day, when any thing happens in the ME , Arabian Gulf / sea area we see those demands. I call this "life", we deal with it as it comes down the road.

Is there a alternative?

Some things "down the road" are visible before you get there and are worth preparing for. That is what Hirsch was talking about. The longer you wait and the less you change in anticipation of known eventualities you're more likely to be stuck reacting to crisis than following a course.

Paul Girouard
06-01-2013, 09:08 PM
Some things "down the road" are visible before you get there and are worth preparing for. That is what Hirsch was talking about. The longer you wait and the less you change in anticipation of known eventualities you're more likely to be stuck reacting to crisis than following a course.

Surely your not talking about settling the ME issues!

LeeG
06-01-2013, 09:13 PM
Surely your not talking about settling the ME issues!

Shirley I'm not. The problem is unsustainable consumption not the ME. My guess is that we are doing what you suggest, waiting until world production peaks then scrambling for solutions to maintain business as usual. When those don't work another study will be commissioned and ignored like the Hirsch report was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report


Mitigation efforts will require substantial time.
Waiting until production peaks would leave the world with a liquid fuel deficit for 20 years.
Initiating a crash program 10 years before peaking leaves a liquid fuels shortfall of a decade.
Initiating a crash program 20 years before peaking could avoid a world liquid fuels shortfall.