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View Full Version : Second accident of the day. Is it full moon or something?



The Bigfella
05-27-2013, 08:57 AM
I missed the first one today... involved a "baby... little bit hurt... OK".

The one five minutes ago sounded bigger.... at a guess 60 kph or more. Young lady on a scooter, hit the brakes well before the corner and got rammed from behind. She had a helmet on, fortunately... and a lot around here don't... but not much else. lost one of her flip flops... lost some skin from elbows and knees, but not too bad. Might have a broken bone in her foot, the way she was holding it.

The guy in the ute that hit her took her to hospital. 7 cops here within about 3 minutes. We had everyone / everything off the road before that. My crutch made a great traffic control tool. Her scooter, brand new automatic Honda, is seized... something to do with the tap from behind.

This reinforces my view on riding here.... go faster than everyone else in order to stay safe.

I saw another one about three days ago, from the seat I'm in now. Another scooter, just lost it into the corner. No damage, no injury. Picked it up and he was gone in 30 seconds.

George Jung
05-27-2013, 09:41 PM
When I used to ride, I always rode aggressively, as if I was invisible. Never stopped behind a vehicle - didn't want to be sandwiched. Always separated myself from traffic. But eventually, even if vigilant, you will get nailed. Park the bike; drive the car.

Gerarddm
05-27-2013, 10:41 PM
Loud pipes save lives.

The Bigfella
05-27-2013, 11:45 PM
When I used to ride, I always rode aggressively, as if I was invisible. Never stopped behind a vehicle - didn't want to be sandwiched. Always separated myself from traffic. But eventually, even if vigilant, you will get nailed. Park the bike; drive the car.

That's the way to minimise the risks. I'm under Doctor's orders to not drive a car. He didn't mention motorbikes.


Loud pipes save lives.

They do indeed.... but even with them, it helps to hover the thumb over the horn button. Then there's an awareness of body language.... a bike here moving to the side of the road is a real warning signal... ie that they are about to swerve across the road in front of you.

skipper68
05-27-2013, 11:53 PM
Your upside down, on the moon. :D
As I volunteered at the VFW-Full moon I had to call cops.
I Did Not over serve them, they came in that way.
I DO over serve myself. ;)
HOME.

The Bigfella
05-28-2013, 12:14 AM
Of course.

skipper68
05-28-2013, 12:27 AM
:D Of COURSE, of course!

skuthorp
05-28-2013, 06:55 AM
Old friend was killed on a scooter. Stopped at a red light about 5 am and was smeared by a truck. "No one stops for red lights at that hour of the morning" said the truckie.
Many years ago.

Full Tilt
05-28-2013, 09:36 AM
Loud pipes save lives.

_________ ___________________________________________

Especially if you live in Fredericton, New Brunswick where city council is trying to ban loud motorcycles from the downtown core.

Loud pipes make loud enemies.

Paul Pless
05-28-2013, 09:53 AM
lost one of her flip flops...Many years ago, while I was in college, I was at a large party - swimming pool, volley ball, drum circles, kegs, weed, etc etc. A good friend was on his motorcycle and he asked me to follow him home to drop it off, just a few miles. He was wearing a bathing suit, a tank top, sandals, and a helmet. I was two cars behind on a very busy six lane divided street through midtown, when he was sideswiped by minivan. It knocked him into the car on his other side. There was no doubt he was going down and it was going to be ugly. Suddenly, I saw Brad lay the bike down while he crawled on top of it and rode the slide out. His bathing suit had got caught on the bike and was ripped from him. When the slide came to an end all traffic stopped. Brad was completely unscathed - not a scratch and he had one of the biggest doses of adrenaline any human can ever achieve, he was jumping around screaming and yelling in complete exhilaration, also completely naked from the waist down!:D

Paul Pless
05-28-2013, 09:58 AM
When I used to ride, I always rode aggressively, as if I was invisible. Never stopped behind a vehicle - didn't want to be sandwiched. Always separated myself from traffic. But eventually, even if vigilant, you will get nailed. Park the bike; drive the car.


Own the road! I see the notable difference between riding styles here in Hell everyday. Its easy to pick out the experienced, wary, and savvy riders. They don't necessarily ride 'aggressively', but they absolutely own their lane, their piece of real estate, they don't ride the crown or near the shoulder, they don't approach intersections meekly, they don't give up right of away. They make eye contact with other drivers and riders if possible. This type of experienced riding transcends brand.

Full Tilt
05-28-2013, 10:14 AM
Many years ago, while I was in college, I was at a large party - swimming pool, volley ball, drum circles, kegs, weed, etc etc. A good friend was on his motorcycle and he asked me to follow him home to drop it off, just a few miles. He was wearing a bathing suit, a tank top, sandals, and a helmet. I was two cars behind on a very busy six lane divided street through midtown, when he was sideswiped by minivan. It knocked him into the car on his other side. There was no doubt he was going down and it was going to be ugly. Suddenly, I saw Brad lay the bike down while he crawled on top of it and rode the slide out. His bathing suit had got caught on the bike and was ripped from him. When the slide came to an end all traffic stopped. Brad was completely unscathed - not a scratch and he had one of the biggest doses of adrenaline any human can ever achieve, he was jumping around screaming and yelling in complete exhilaration, also completely naked from the waste down!:D

___________ _____________________________________________

Reminds me of my first encounter with cobblestones and train tracks on a motorcycle.

I'd had an electrical malfunction with my XS500 which required me digging out the owners manual. It was a blown fuse and I quickly replaced it and hurried off to work, now slightly behind schedule. In my rush I slipped the manual into my back pocket.

When I came to the diagonally crossing train tracks and cobbles that dewy morning I learned an essential motorcycling lesson. Wet steel is as slippery as ice.

Luckily as I slid across the cobblestones on my butt, the manual protected me from injury. I ground through the first chapter before coming to a stop.

The Bigfella
05-28-2013, 01:39 PM
Guess who got to take his host's daughter swimming today? 20km round trip in peak hour traffic.... with her standing on the scooter's footboards. No accidents.

Chris Coose
05-28-2013, 03:15 PM
IThis reinforces my view on riding here....

Where's here?

George Jung
05-28-2013, 07:57 PM
Many years ago, while I was in college, I was at a large party - swimming pool, volley ball, drum circles, kegs, weed, etc etc. A good friend was on his motorcycle and he asked me to follow him home to drop it off, just a few miles. He was wearing a bathing suit, a tank top, sandals, and a helmet. I was two cars behind on a very busy six lane divided street through midtown, when he was sideswiped by minivan. It knocked him into the car on his other side. There was no doubt he was going down and it was going to be ugly. Suddenly, I saw Brad lay the bike down while he crawled on top of it and rode the slide out. His bathing suit had got caught on the bike and was ripped from him. When the slide came to an end all traffic stopped. Brad was completely unscathed - not a scratch and he had one of the biggest doses of adrenaline any human can ever achieve, he was jumping around screaming and yelling in complete exhilaration, also completely naked from the waist down!:D

I had a weird accident when I was a kid - hit some freshly dumped gravel (really deep!), and while swimming through it at 60 or so (little things don't bother kids), managed to find a piece of wood/stick in the gravel - which traveled up the back of my front tire, wedged into the fender, and locked up the front tire. A bit more than I could handle - and the bike went down. Funny thing was, I instinctively laid it over, with myself on the top, and rode it out, similar to your friend. Scraped the downside handgrip a bit, and my arm, otherwise, no problem. A friend who lived there saw it happen, ran to give me a hand, but before he got there, I was up/started/gone. It helps to be bulletproof!

Canoeyawl
05-28-2013, 10:15 PM
__ I learned an essential motorcycling lesson. Wet steel is as slippery as ice.
.

I learned that on the Golden Gate Bridge...
It is a long way down through those gratings

purri
05-28-2013, 10:23 PM
That's when sidecars win the day.

The Bigfella
05-28-2013, 10:35 PM
Where's here?

The Golden Triangle... although, this trip, I'm missing the other two points of the triangle. I'm in Chiang Mai, Thailand for a month.

I came up for a mate's wedding and I'm doing my rehab here for my tibial plateau fracture. First duty when I got here was to attend an expat's funeral - he had a reputation for "crazy" and met a 10 ton truck. I had a beer the other day with the guy whose arms he died in. Riding safety has been a topical item around here.



I had a weird accident when I was a kid - hit some freshly dumped gravel (really deep!), and while swimming through it at 60 or so (little things don't bother kids), managed to find a piece of wood/stick in the gravel - which traveled up the back of my front tire, wedged into the fender, and locked up the front tire. A bit more than I could handle - and the bike went down. Funny thing was, I instinctively laid it over, with myself on the top, and rode it out, similar to your friend. Scraped the downside handgrip a bit, and my arm, otherwise, no problem. A friend who lived there saw it happen, ran to give me a hand, but before he got there, I was up/started/gone. It helps to be bulletproof!

One of the main reasons I struck the F800GS BMW off my list when I was looking (ended up with the Super Enduro) was the low front guard. It showed they weren't serious with off-road capability. I've heard of guys coming off, at speed, due exactly to what happened to you. A friend is riding one up to Shangri La and beyond - crossed into China yesterday - and he describes it as like riding a sewing machine (not a compliment).

Jim Bow
05-28-2013, 11:22 PM
"Loud pipes save lives" How? Does that mean that BMW riders are destined to die?
Loud pipes do little more than piss off every person except the jerk on the loud bike. When some loud piper races past your house at 3 a.m. and shocks you awake, do you lie there and thank god that another life was saved? I think not.
Loud pipes are for folks who like to be noticed by pedestrians, they do nothing to attract the attention of motorists, except when their riders keep revving at stop lights.

What saves lives is paying attention to your surroundings and not getting into situations where you don't have an "out".

The National Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a consortium of manufacturers, makes absolutely no mention of loud pipes being a safety feature.

purri
05-28-2013, 11:34 PM
^ There is modicum of "sound" that makes idiots aware of other road users. (Abt 96Db max)

Full Tilt
05-28-2013, 11:47 PM
^ There is modicum of "sound" that makes idiots aware of other road users. (Abt 96Db max)


Or road users aware of idiots.

purri
05-29-2013, 12:32 AM
^ your "philosophical" construct, not mine.

The Bigfella
05-29-2013, 12:33 AM
"Loud pipes save lives" How? Does that mean that BMW riders are destined to die?
Loud pipes do little more than piss off every person except the jerk on the loud bike. When some loud piper races past your house at 3 a.m. and shocks you awake, do you lie there and thank god that another life was saved? I think not.
Loud pipes are for folks who like to be noticed by pedestrians, they do nothing to attract the attention of motorists, except when their riders keep revving at stop lights.

What saves lives is paying attention to your surroundings and not getting into situations where you don't have an "out".

The National Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a consortium of manufacturers, makes absolutely no mention of loud pipes being a safety feature.

A friend, just back from a city in China where 80% of the bikes are electric commented about the dangers of the damn silent things to pedestrians.

Like you, I don't like the extremes that I think you are referring to - Harley's with straight pipes, for example.

I rode several thousand kilometres in Thailand and Laos in company with another KTM - same engine as mine, different exhausts - with mine being slightly louder. I also tended to blip the throttle more on approaching other slower vehicles. The other rider had several very close calls with slow scooter riders who suddenly turned across in front of him. Didn't happen with me.... I could see the riders heads move as they heard me approaching.

Same thing back in Oz - but to a lesser degree, given vehicles with loud music playing, etc. If I'm in traffic in a dangerous area, with potential lane-changers... I'll drop down a gear or two to make more noise. It works for me.

Incidentally, I also run super-bright LED "look at me" lights for the same reason - to provide something out of the ordinary so that cage pilots actually spot me.

Don't blame me for having to take protective measures against the dangers posed by inattentive drivers.

Full Tilt
05-29-2013, 12:55 AM
An "idiot" or "road user" as Purri calls them, was riding a Harley beside me this weekend that was so loud it actually caused physical pain.

The swarms of rice rockets that redline their tachs on the on ramp to the elevated expressway a quartermile from me are no better.

Loud pipes save lives is a lot of BS. The noise follows the bike, it doesn't warn anybody ahead of them.

Total "LOOK AT ME" ​syndrome.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-29-2013, 12:56 AM
Talking of "owning the lane", I am never quite sure whether, at speed on a busy road, one is better in the middle of the lane, with the oil drips and loose gravel, or in the smooth tracks of car wheels to the outer side of the lane (never the inner!)

The Bigfella
05-29-2013, 01:07 AM
An "idiot" or "road user" as Purri calls them, was riding a Harley beside me this weekend that was so loud it actually caused physical pain.

The swarms of rice rockets that redline their tachs on the on ramp to the elevated expressway a quartermile from me are no better.

Loud pipes save lives is a lot of BS. The noise follows the bike, it doesn't warn anybody ahead of them.

Total "LOOK AT ME" ​syndrome.

Speed of sound... 768 mph or thereabouts. Sure isn't following me at the speeds I ride at. As I said, I blip the throttle as I approach a slower rider.... and if I don't see their head move in response... I blip the horn button.... the sound of which also precedes my arrival.


Talking of "owning the lane", I am never quite sure whether, at speed on a busy road, one is better in the middle of the lane, with the oil drips and loose gravel, or in the smooth tracks of car wheels to the outer side of the lane (never the inner!)

.... except in Oz, where 6' tall rats have a habit of jumping out from beside the road... or in Asia, where kids, dogs, chooks, goats, cows, buffalo, etc... have a habit of wandering or running onto the road. I favour the inner.

Incidentally, I'm told - and think this might be true - that kangaroos tend to dislike the sound of single cylinder motorbikes. I've had some scary moments with the big buggers.....

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-29-2013, 03:28 AM
I suppose I do 140 miles of four lane highway every working day; its what the K75 was built to do and it does it very well, but the inner set of tyre tracks make me a little less visible, I think

The Bigfella
05-29-2013, 03:43 AM
This from my friend's ride report on a trip from Shangri La to Kunming in China. This is describing Kunming:


I had the rest of the day to walk around and 'get a feel' of China.


First thing was that about 95% of the bikes are electric. Wonderful idea ... but deadly because a new-comer simply doesn't hear them approaching from behind on the footpath. They sure do help save the environment though. I have read that 700,000 Chinese die from carbon monoxide poisoning every year.

doorstop
05-29-2013, 04:33 AM
.... except in Oz, where 6' tall rats have a habit of jumping out from beside the road... or in Asia, where kids, dogs, chooks, goats, cows, buffalo, etc... have a habit of wandering or running onto the road. I favour the inner.

Incidentally, I'm told - and think this might be true - that kangaroos tend to dislike the sound of single cylinder motorbikes. I've had some scary moments with the big buggers.....

What the man said!

I ride/drive the white line. When you have hundreds of Kms of road with scrub to within 2m of the road that is alive with Emus, Roos, Bloody goats, Feral stinking deer flamin Wombats you want to be as far from the edge of the road as possible. The more time I have to avoid "stuff" the better!

The Bigfella
05-29-2013, 04:44 AM
What the man said!

I ride/drive the white line. When you have hundreds of Kms of road with scrub to within 2m of the road that is alive with Emus, Roos, Bloody goats, Feral stinking deer flamin Wombats you want to be as far from the edge of the road as possible. The more time I have to avoid "stuff" the better!

Which, incidentally, is the opposite of what my son was taught at his "Stay Upright" course when getting his bike licence.

He was also taught to ride without a finger on the brake lever. I wouldn't be writing this now if I followed that advice. Apparently its dirt bike riders who do that - and the risk for road riders is that they'll lock a front brake on a corner.

doorstop
05-29-2013, 04:54 AM
I ride finger draped over the lever.
In the scrub I try to never exceed the limit.
I have come to halt within 30Cm of bloody red deer!
Luck more than skill....
Why would you ride near the edge of the road where you have only one possible direction to escape a threat?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-29-2013, 06:06 AM
I have never ridden a dirt bike; I keep a finger over the lever because it means I can locate it faster - probably just psychological.

Full Tilt
05-29-2013, 08:40 AM
Speed of sound... 768 mph or thereabouts....

I've always understood the speed of sound was 650 mph at sea level and became higher with altitude.

Chuck Yeager entered the record books with a speed of 662 mph which was Mach 1 at the altitude the X1 was flying.

I don't know where this 768mph comes from (other than Wikipedia)?

Paul Pless
05-29-2013, 08:43 AM
Speed of sound... 768 mph or thereabouts. Sure isn't following me at the speeds I ride at. do your pipes aim forward or back?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-29-2013, 09:00 AM
Anyway, faster than the bike.

Full Tilt
05-29-2013, 09:31 AM
"Loud pipes save lives" How? Does that mean that BMW riders are destined to die?
Loud pipes do little more than piss off every person except the jerk on the loud bike. When some loud piper races past your house at 3 a.m. and shocks you awake, do you lie there and thank god that another life was saved? I think not.
Loud pipes are for folks who like to be noticed by pedestrians, they do nothing to attract the attention of motorists, except when their riders keep revving at stop lights.

What saves lives is paying attention to your surroundings and not getting into situations where you don't have an "out".

The National Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a consortium of manufacturers, makes absolutely no mention of loud pipes being a safety feature.
_________ ________________________ __________________________________________

Maybe car exhausts should be reduced to straight headers so motorcyclists can hear them coming?

PhaseLockedLoop
05-29-2013, 04:38 PM
I've always understood the speed of sound was 650 mph at sea level and became higher with altitude.

At normal atmospheric pressure and a temperature of 20 degrees Celsius, a sound wave will travel at approximately 343 m/s; this is approximately equal to 750 miles/hour...highway speeds are approximately 30 m/s)...

Full Tilt
05-29-2013, 06:19 PM
It's not as simple as subtracting the bikes speed from the speed of sound, guys.

There's a reason car horns are directed forward and not aft like a motorcycles exhaust.

Raising ambient noise doesn't help to signal an approaching motorcycle, it just makes a din that reverberates in every direction.

Something like 90% of car bike accidents are caused by the car making a left turn from either side or from straight ahead. A noisy neighbourhood won't change that.

George Jung
05-29-2013, 06:35 PM
Funny you should point out the 'left turn'. That's the one I worry about, and have had my 'close calls' with - and usually, in town, it's a LOL who is trying desperately to get out of my way (but hadn't considered just letting me go by), but failing to do the one thing that would help - push the accelerator! Argh!

I can survive the dump in the loose gravel. Hitting a car (or other large, massive structure) - not so much. I'm also not a fan of loud pipes (I lived too close to Sturgis/The Rally for too many years) but - everyones' mileage varies.

StevenBauer
05-29-2013, 06:59 PM
Old friend was killed on a scooter. Stopped at a red light about 5 am and was smeared by a truck. "No one stops for red lights at that hour of the morning" said the truckie.
Many years ago.

Hopefully he said that from his jail cell.


Steven

Jim Bow
05-29-2013, 11:05 PM
I have never ridden a dirt bike; I keep a finger over the lever because it means I can locate it faster - probably just psychological.

Which brings up a thought of those rice burner cowboys who ride with one hand, the other resting on the tank. I think they saw Tom Cruise ride that way in Top Gun.

My instructor in the Motorcycle Safety Course claimed that if you are riding one handed, and something darts in front of you, or the car ahead straddles an object in the road that you suddenly see, you will overcorrect. You will steer too hard, much harder than if both hands were on the bars acting in consort.

I was taught to keep a finger on the brake, also.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-30-2013, 02:00 AM
The thing I am having to learn or un-learn after years of riding a sidecar combination is NOT to grab the front brake - for a sidecar rider it is the right response, because you need all the stopping power you can get - for a solo it can, and does, lead to disaster.

Full Tilt
05-30-2013, 02:16 AM
Not sure what you mean Andrew? Most braking is​ done with the front brake.

purri
05-30-2013, 03:14 AM
Really? Chairs are "different" according to where you are in a negotiating a corner on approach and departure. Mine was a fairly powerful outfit (a hot 1200 HD) was to brake before the corner, set up the radius, nearly lock up the back brake on an inside turn then apply lots of throttle through and past the apex. The application of physics force the outfit to turn inward toward the chair, opposite turns are fairly easy in comparison.
Not sure what you mean Andrew? Most braking is​ done with the front brake.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-30-2013, 03:37 AM
What purri says!

Chairs are very different - and in my case had feeble drum brakes - a chair brake definitely helps but I didn't have one until I fitted the only one in China...

I meant grabbing the front brake as a reflex action even in a turn. Oh and specially not in gravelled car parks...

purri
05-30-2013, 05:58 AM
Thanks Andrew. Mine weighed but 660lbs with chair, heaps of torque, 70 REAL hp and disc brakes front and rear. As an addendum I found it best to have the suspension compressed before the turn to minimise "moments". I also ran longer and stiffer rear shocks to minimise trail and the potential for wash-out at the front.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-30-2013, 06:03 AM
That is very light indeed for a chair with that power.

The Bigfella
05-30-2013, 06:53 AM
That is very light indeed for a chair with that power.

Last time he wrote about it, he still had it. A UL Harley, if I'm not mistaken.

Meanwhile.... I had to use my elbow in the traffic today. Had a 4WD squeezing me from the right and some fat Thai lady on a scooter squeezing me from the left. I raised my elbow and it was right in front of her nose. She disappeared. All this at 50 kph with traffic everywhere... not a spot of road to be seen - and me three up on the scoot, coming "home" from swimming. Had to have a stern word with the kid (host's 5yo daughter)... "Do NOT play with the controls while we are on the road".... she'd turned my right indicator off and selected the left. Hmmm.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-30-2013, 07:36 AM
Ah yes; you sit the little one on the tank, and sit forward on the seat cos there are two adults behind you....

(Bonus marks are awarded for doing it whilst carrying two bottles and a birthday cake!)

The Bigfella
05-30-2013, 07:42 AM
Nah - we were on the Scoot.

The 5 year old stands on the floor in front of the seat and holds the handlebars. She can see over the instruments then - and she's secure, because my knees go to the fairing. The cook takes the pillion seat, carrying two bags of towels, swimmers, etc... and holds my walking stick.

Easy as, eh?... although you do tend to pay attention to the 18 wheelers that want to share the lane with you.

On another front, someone pointed out last night that the cops here stop enforcing helmet laws at 5pm. I counted the next riders past... 15 before I saw a helmet. Same ratio again tonight.

Paul Pless
05-30-2013, 07:49 AM
The 5 year old stands on the floor in front of the seat and holds the handlebars. She can see over the instruments then - and she's secure, because my knees go to the fairing. The cook takes the pillion seat, carrying two bags of towels, swimmers, etc... and holds my walking stick.

Is this something you would do at home in Australia, regardless of legality?

The Bigfella
05-30-2013, 08:03 AM
It would be illegal at home. Minimum age on a bike is 8. I won't take her without a helmet... which is what she tries every time.

Would I do it at home? I'd like to have a scoot at home, for runs to the shops... but that's it. The drivers here have better awareness.... although, I started out noting where/when I was using the horn. First two beeps were for dogs - and believe me, they take note of a scooter horn... then by the time I'd beeped it 20 or so times at scooters and cars pulling out without looking, I gave up counting.

Here.... the swim trip is 10km each way. With passengers, I do it a lot slower than when I did it by myself. I checked the other day... I was doing 45 kph with Allysala on board at the same spot I'd been doing 100 kph when it was just me.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-30-2013, 08:05 AM
Ian would no more do it in Australia than I would do it in Britain, but we are talking about southeast Asian speeds and traffic conditions.


Ah, yes, helmets...


http://lifestyle.inquirer.net/104469/has-the-helmet-law-been-forgotten-so-soon

George Jung
05-30-2013, 05:58 PM
Ian would no more do it in Australia than I would do it in Britain, but we are talking about southeast Asian speeds and traffic conditions.


Ah, yes, helmets...


http://lifestyle.inquirer.net/104469/has-the-helmet-law-been-forgotten-so-soon


Rather along the lines of 'when in Rome', or more like 'What happens in Vegas, stays....'?