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skuthorp
05-20-2013, 04:09 PM
The (right) wing of the Conservative party in Britain seem intent on dumping their leader over continued EECU membership and same sex marriage rights. BBC news this morning was questioning his survival.
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21578096-if-only-david-cameron-had-nigel-farages-sway-over-conservative-party-take-me-your-leader

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20130518_BRD001_0.jpg

We need a Brit Pol thread I think. It could be a rocky road till the next election.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?163421-Question-for-the-people-in-Scotland

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-20-2013, 05:21 PM
I'm not PI.

But this is what I wrote in Another Place on the same subject:

The EU issue will wreck the Tories again. We are seeing a re-run of a twenty year old slow motion train wreck.

It is wonderful to see how those who set about wrecking their party always claim to be "more Conservative than the Prime Minister" be he John Major or David Cameron. A bit like being "more Catholic than the Pope", or "more Socialist than Neil Kinnock".

The great merit of the EU issue, for the professional wreckers who espouse it (and surely no real Conservative would waste time on it?) is that it never goes away; if you get a referendum, and don't get the answer that you want, you can just ask for another one.

A gentle reminder: the Conservatives are not in power, they did not win the last election. They are in a coalition. Arguing about a referendum which certainly will not take place during the life of this coalition and which can only happen in the increasingly unlikely event that the Conservatives win an outright majority at the next election, which will not happen if so-called Conservatives defect to UKIP, is like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

There are real issues to be dealt with.

unquote

Peerie Maa
05-20-2013, 05:40 PM
If anything proves that there are loads of Tory back bencher's free of the taint of big money this topic is it. I cannot think of any policy more likely to damage our economy than denying us easy access to the huge EU market. It was the EU that bought Nissan to the NE of England. They employ 5000 staff on site, with dunno how many jobs in the supply chain.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-20-2013, 05:54 PM
There is a calculation that at least two million jobs would go, but I suppose that would ease the Servant Problem.

Duncan Gibbs
05-20-2013, 06:50 PM
So it seems that right wing idiocy is a Worldwide phenomenon...

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
05-21-2013, 12:03 AM
The two causes for the conservatives to replace a leader are:
1 - Loses an election.
2 - Does something entirely bat - crap crazy - see poll tax.

The English will not elect a party divided against itself - so Cameron will fail from 2.

I think Andrew is spot on with the "Slow motion train wreck".

skuthorp
05-21-2013, 12:12 AM
I suppose then, seeing an ordinary election is about two years away, the question is has Labor any credibility after brownosing GW under Blair for years? I must begin to read the UK press more often. I fancy the Guardian but any other reliable source will be appreciated. Our collection of 3rd rate pollies will get a 'none of the above' from me and many of our acquaintances this time.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-21-2013, 03:58 AM
The only agenda-free serious newspaper in Britain with a good reporting staff and budget is the Financial Times, but they are behind a paywall. The Independent is more or less middle of the road, the Telegraph is not nicknamed the Torygraph for nothing and the Guardian you know about. The Times is Murdoch. Note that the Torygraph has its claws into Cameron because he signed up with Murdoch before the last election. So does the Daily Mail, but that is a yellow press rag.

Labour has no credibility but UKIP may damage the Tories if people start to take it seriously.

(UKIP = Tea Party in the UK)

It all looks very much like Major, all over again. The Tory consitituency activists really are swivel eyed loons. I get to meet some of them because I am a Libdem constituency activist - you can't spend a morning taking poll card numbers outside a polling station without chatting to your counterparts.

skuthorp
05-21-2013, 04:10 AM
So the RW of the Conservatives would rather a coalition with the UKIP than the present arrangements? There are unpleasant historical precedents of the consequences of such alliances.
I might investigate the costs of a FT on line subscription. As I said our petty political spats leave me completely cold.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-21-2013, 05:20 AM
The RW of the Tories would indeed prefer a deal with UKIP; thinking Tories (there are some - Ken Clarke is the outstanding example) recognise UKIP as a dagger aimed at the heart of their ancient party

I'd recommend an online subscription to The Economist, which shares an owner with the FT. Better value unless you are investing in UK stocks and bonds.

skuthorp
05-21-2013, 06:49 AM
I've been looking at the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece, their 'song' has more than redolence with the another racist fascist system. Watching a rally takes you right back to 1933. Many Greeks in senior positions support them, they vet hospital patients for 'greekness' and their blood donations and soup kitchens are similarly run. Greece has been prone to dictatorships and civil wars before, maybe again as it feeds on unemployment, despair and xenophobia.
Similarities of aim in the UKIP are concerning.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-21-2013, 07:02 AM
I've been looking at the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece, their 'song' has more than redolence with the another racist fascist system. Watching a rally takes you right back to 1933. Many Greeks in senior positions support them, they vet hospital patients for 'greekness' and their blood donations and soup kitchens are similarly run. Greece has been prone to dictatorships and civil wars before, maybe again as it feeds on unemployment, despair and xenophobia.
Similarities of aim in the UKIP are concerning.

In a word, yes. Farage says that racist comments by UKIP candidates in the recent local elections were because his party "lacked the resources" to vet candidates properly.

No doubt he has informed Her Majesty's Marines.

purri
05-21-2013, 08:19 PM
Are you thinking of the Mitfords and Bloomsbury Set?
So the RW of the Conservatives would rather a coalition with the UKIP than the present arrangements? There are unpleasant historical precedents of the consequences of such alliances.
I might investigate the costs of a FT on line subscription. As I said our petty political spats leave me completely cold.

skuthorp
05-22-2013, 03:17 AM
Yes purri, and the same demographic in between the wars Germany. All linked of course, politically and famillialy.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-22-2013, 04:46 AM
The troublemakers are just the Bastards (John Major's* word) and the Nasty people (Theresa May's **word) inside the Tory party.

* Former Prime Minister
** Current Home Secretary

They are not likely to mount a sucessful coup against Cameron for one very simple reason - if they did so, the ConDem coalition would break up and the LibDems would form a Government with Labour.

The Tory Party would then face an atack by UKIP at the next election and Labour, with or without the LIbdems, would romp back into power.

Peerie Maa
05-22-2013, 04:53 AM
Just read a crytique of UKIP's lack of substance behind their proto "policies" in the Torygraph. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10071380/Nigel-Farages-biggest-problem-is-Ukip-doesnt-do-details.html

Some of the comments are an indictment of UKIP's supporters.

skuthorp
05-22-2013, 05:07 AM
Stringent economic times are always good for demagogs, extreme but fuzzy policies and anyone offering an easy solution regardless of whether it has any substance. And then there are the bully boys, always there, always available for anyone offering them a glimpse of power and loot. Think soccer hooligans and the riots a couple of years ago.

purri
05-22-2013, 07:08 AM
^" Easy solutions" sounds familiar eh?