PDA

View Full Version : Do you waterproof the inside of the hull of a wooden boat?



indiana
04-21-2013, 10:34 AM
Hi, I m aware of the many ways you would waterproof the external hull of a wooden boat (Mostly by reading these threads) but what if anything do you do to the inside of the hull?

I suspect you would not want to seal it with anything like fiberglass as this would cause the wood to rot (Guessing but sounds right).

Looking at the inside of the hull on my 1964 William Osborne there is some form of red paint, and thats all, any idea what this is and should i get more and just do the same?

If I do repaint it, what should i do first, again i'm guessing i should first wipe it clean of any crap thats gathered over time, Is there any special solution I should use to give it a good clean before repainting?

I know the above questions are probably elementry, but i am new to this and do want to get it right.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Ian McColgin
04-21-2013, 10:38 AM
It all depends. It's often well to paint the lower bilges with something at least mildly toxic to keep mildew from getting too firm a start and to provide a cleanable surface. Moving up inside the hull to the more vertical surfaces that's far less needed and the benefits of letting the wood have some air may outweigh any protection.

wizbang 13
04-21-2013, 10:56 AM
I lock all my boats up , but not all boats should be .
Your red stuff may be red lead, which is usually actually orange.
TSP is a very powerful detergent that gets oil and junk outta there for painting prep.

Peerie Maa
04-21-2013, 11:32 AM
It is pretty obvious from this
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8083/8279096384_79f500617d_c.jpg
that Sjogin was never painted.
Something in the bilge as Ian says is all that is nessesary, everything else is cosmetic providing your ventilation is excellent.

upchurchmr
04-21-2013, 02:03 PM
Check out the Gougeon epoxy site before the "traditionalists" get going. Oops, too late!
Then check out the number of people asking for suggestions on or reporting on a "minor" rebuild of a traditional hull. Count the number of frames and hull timbers replaced generally due to some minor leak. Or just the normal rot that comes from older techniques. As was said below, everything will be just fine "providing your ventilation is excellent" - not good but excellent.

It is interesting but the Gougeons suggest coating the inside of the boat rather than the outside if you can only afford one. Due to the fact that most boats have some water inside over long periods of time, The water vapor inside penetrates the wood better than the solid water outside. Wood needs moisture to rot. OK, lets hear the Luddites.

Good luck
Hi, I m aware of the many ways you would waterproof the external hull of a wooden boat (Mostly by reading these threads) but what if anything do you do to the inside of the hull?

I suspect you would not want to seal it with anything like fiberglass as this would cause the wood to rot (Guessing but sounds right).

Looking at the inside of the hull on my 1964 William Osborne there is some form of red paint, and thats all, any idea what this is and should i get more and just do the same?

If I do repaint it, what should i do first, again i'm guessing i should first wipe it clean of any crap thats gathered over time, Is there any special solution I should use to give it a good clean before repainting?

I know the above questions are probably elementry, but i am new to this and do want to get it right.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

Bob Cleek
04-21-2013, 02:18 PM
Check out the Gougeon epoxy site before the "traditionalists" get going. Oops, too late!
Then check out the number of people asking for suggestions on or reporting on a "minor" rebuild of a traditional hull. Count the number of frames and hull timbers replaced generally due to some minor leak. Or just the normal rot that comes from older techniques. As was said below, everything will be just fine "providing your ventilation is excellent" - not good but excellent.

It is interesting but the Gougeons suggest coating the inside of the boat rather than the outside if you can only afford one. Due to the fact that most boats have some water inside over long periods of time, The water vapor inside penetrates the wood better than the solid water outside. Wood needs moisture to rot. OK, lets hear the Luddites.

Good luck

No, you're completely correct. The more epoxy resin that can be applied to all parts of a boat, the longer it will last. If all water can be kept out of the wood forever, the wood will last forever. No question about it. It is especially important to do this in places like Texas, where there's no water because God never intended boats to be there in the first place. In places like that, epoxy is essential.

Elsewhere, such as apparently the poster's neck of the woods, boats last for fifty years with just "some form of red paint" in the bilge. No doubt, those who reflexively slather everything with epoxy have never seen such a thing as amazing as a fifty year old boat. As the man says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Another coat of "some form of red paint" and I'd say she's good to go for another fifty years.

(And just for the record, this "Luddite" has been using epoxy in boat work and elsewhere for over forty years.)

indiana
04-21-2013, 02:26 PM
Thanks to everyone for your speedy responses and suggestions, most appreciated.
So red lead paint, is that still available to buy, I only ask because of the lead reference (I live in the UK)

Regards,
Mark

Peerie Maa
04-21-2013, 03:08 PM
Thanks to everyone for your speedy responses and suggestions, most appreciated.
So red lead paint, is that still available to buy, I only ask because of the lead reference (I live in the UK)

Regards,
Mark

http://www.teamac.co.uk/ used to sell red lead, they probably still do.

Bob Cleek
04-21-2013, 07:51 PM
Thanks to everyone for your speedy responses and suggestions, most appreciated.
So red lead paint, is that still available to buy, I only ask because of the lead reference (I live in the UK)

Regards,
Mark


Don't make yourself crazy trying to find red lead primer. It may be very difficult to find. Just use one of the substitute coatings that have now replaced it. (They may indicate they are for priming metal, but not to worry.) These are every bit as effective as the old red lead. There's no magic in the "lead" (oxide.) It just used to be used as the solids in good paint.

Mike Vogdes
04-21-2013, 08:14 PM
Don't make yourself crazy trying to find red lead primer. It may be very difficult to find. Just use one of the substitute coatings that have now replaced it. (They may indicate they are for priming metal, but not to worry.) These are every bit as effective as the old red lead. There's no magic in the "lead" (oxide.) It just used to be used as the solids in good paint.

Always wondered about that... I see people on here once in a while in near panic because you can't buy red lead anymore.

Bob Cleek
04-22-2013, 01:39 AM
Always wondered about that... I see people on here once in a while in near panic because you can't buy red lead anymore.

Yea, there's this myth that the lead oxide in the paint is a fungicide and prevents rot. The only thing about red lead primer that prevents rot is that it is a good coating which slows moisture absorbtion. Just about any oil based paint will do that. The old time boat builders used red lead because it was thick, available and cheap.

John Meachen
04-22-2013, 05:09 PM
You might struggle to purchase red lead paint in the UK.You may be able to find red lead powder and some of the other ingredients of paint,but a friend who is an architect operating almost exclusively in the conservation and restoration of old properties has to obtain a licence to buy and use lead based paints for each building he works with.Bob Cleek's advice is well worth noting.

Peerie Maa
04-22-2013, 05:22 PM
Read lead is banned for painting domestic buildings etc. Steel erectors used it, it was not banned for marine use and I still have a tin of Teamack red lead in 't shed. I would phone them and ask.

Jonathan Burke
04-22-2013, 05:23 PM
Red lead paint, from a rather nice chap who sells all manor of stuff for boats made of wood http://www.tradboats.com/barriercoatsandprimers.htm

Bob Cleek is right about the fact that it is basically a barrier, and for that there are specific paints to do the job i.e. bilge paint. I use international Danboline which you can use over standard primer, or in the bilge of a wooden yacht, it would be better to use an underwater primer. Temac, epifanes and Hempel all do bilge paint to. Its basicaly a tough easy to clean finish that might not give you an uber shiny topside finish but will be a hell of a lot easier to look after (and as mentioned, it will look after the wood)

Harbourmaster
04-22-2013, 05:50 PM
It is interesting but the Gougeons suggest coating the inside of the boat rather than the outside if you can only afford one.

The only thing "interesting" about this is that the recommendation comes from a company that makes a LOT of money from selling Epoxy's.

TeamacPaint
04-24-2013, 04:25 AM
http://www.teamac.co.uk/ used to sell red lead, they probably still do.

Hello, I hope you do not mind us jumping in, some time ago Lead paint was readily available but due to its toxicity it is now a controlled product for specialist application such as the Forth Bridge painting etc, which their application was controlled and measured and any excess paint was returned. We do however have alternatives that will do the job in hand, our product Zinc rich primer, http://www.teamac.co.uk/primers-and-undercoats/teamac-zinc-rich-primer/ in both brush able and spray able forms. upon application to this our technical help guys suggest using ours or an alternative choice of Bilge paint as the top coat to further protect, any further help or to speak to our technical support guys give us a call on 01482 320194 option 1
Thank you Teamac

chuckt
04-25-2013, 09:00 AM
Does everyone agree that there is no reason (other than cosmetics) to coat any of the inside planking or frames above the bilge? So can I leave my new frames (above the bilge) completed untreated? Just bare wood?

DCBrown
04-25-2013, 09:12 AM
"The only thing "interesting" about this is that the recommendation comes from a company that makes a LOT of money from selling Epoxy's. " You are wrong. And, why is it such a bad thing to make a profit in America now?

TeamacPaint
04-25-2013, 10:13 AM
Does everyone agree that there is no reason (other than cosmetics) to coat any of the inside planking or frames above the bilge? So can I leave my new frames (above the bilge) completed untreated? Just bare wood?
Personally I would protect the upper half rather than leave it bare wood, maybe a varnish or an oil may be more suffice just for peace of mind? have a browse on our site http://www.teamac.co.uk/varnishes-and-specialist/

Canoeyawl
04-25-2013, 10:27 AM
Wood is waterproof.

It is not fungi or bacteria proof and some attention could be given to those issues.